Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #2651  
Old 02-19-2018, 10:13 AM
Superdude is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Fortress of Solidude
Posts: 10,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip View Post
It's been a rough few days for Benny, and things aren't looking up. Don't take it personally when he lashes out. With time, he'll be back to his old loveable self.
One would hope that, if he's in the middle, he's not LOOKING up. Not without eye protection, anyway. I understand that it can be quite painful to take a shot in the eye.
__________________
I can't help being a gorgeous fiend. It's just the card I drew.
  #2652  
Old 02-19-2018, 10:25 AM
gytalf2000 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 3,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
I feel sorry for those 13. They're likely to experience a rash of car accidents and suicides.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, as well. Scary!
  #2653  
Old 02-19-2018, 11:01 AM
jayjay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 37,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
I understand that it can be quite painful to take a shot in the eye.
In the immortal words of Miss Coco Peru: "IT BURNNNNNSSSS!"
  #2654  
Old 02-19-2018, 11:15 AM
SteveG1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Van Nuys CA
Posts: 14,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann Hedonia View Post
Some talking head on MSNBC ( Ken Dilanian, actually an NBC correspondent) just made an interesting point. It’s a legal point and I’m not sure if it’s true.

He said that in order to prove or charge conspiracy there needs to be an underlying crime. He also said that once there is a crime involved people can be charged with conspiracy if you acted to aid and abet that crime, even if your actions are not directly criminal. So these indictments may be a first step, even if they can’t ever bring the defendants to trial. Now they can charge other people with conspiracy.

And also the fact that there is now an underlying crime legitimizes the investigation and makes Mueller’s job safety. Or not. He could push to fire Mueller on the grounds that the investigation should be over.
I don't think so. Conspiracy and obstruction are both crimes, in and of themselves - I think.

Example: We can meet and conspire to murder someone. If we fail at t or get caught before we can act, it was still conspiracy to commit murder.
  #2655  
Old 02-19-2018, 01:34 PM
Colibri's Avatar
Colibri is offline
SD Curator of Critters
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Panama
Posts: 43,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Carlson View Post
If this is a circle-jerk, why do you insist on crawling into the middle of it?
He's evident a bukake enthusiast. Recipient, that is.
  #2656  
Old 02-19-2018, 04:05 PM
Sherrerd's Avatar
Sherrerd is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
The thing is, when Nixon finally went, it was the Republicans who told him he had to go.

When the GOP Torpedoed Nixon

Quote:
... On Aug. 6, 1974, at the regular Senate Republican Conference lunch, Goldwater fumed: "There are only so many lies you can take, and now there has been one too many. Nixon should get his ass out of the White House -- today!"...
In that shortened quote from your linked Politico story, I was struck by Goldwater's remark "There are only so many lies you can take." It strikes the ear as a faint and far-off echo from a bygone era, never to return. (Clearly the capacity to Take Lies has increased dramatically in today's congressional Republicans.)

__________________
__________________

Thread on my books (inexpensive gifts!) https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...d.php?t=866609
  #2657  
Old 02-19-2018, 04:08 PM
cuauhtemoc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 3,120
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveG1 View Post
I don't think so. Conspiracy and obstruction are both crimes, in and of themselves - I think.

Example: We can meet and conspire to murder someone. If we fail at t or get caught before we can act, it was still conspiracy to commit
The FBI director was following credible evidence suggesting that a crime had been committed. Isn't it a crime to interfere with that whether or not a crime is found to have been committed?

Suppose the FBI suspects that you've kidnapped Ann Hedonia and they want to question you. You come to my house and tell me you're going to hide in Arizona. The next day they ask me about it, and I tell them I haven't seen you. The next day, Ann shows up unharmed - she wasn't kidnapped after all. She was just out of town. Didn't I still commit a crime by lying to the FBI, even though no other crime was committed?
  #2658  
Old 02-19-2018, 04:15 PM
Locrian is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Valley Village, CA
Posts: 4,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuauhtemoc View Post
The FBI director was following credible evidence suggesting that a crime had been committed. Isn't it a crime to interfere with that whether or not a crime is found to have been committed?

Suppose the FBI suspects that you've kidnapped Ann Hedonia and they want to question you. You come to my house and tell me you're going to hide in Arizona. The next day they ask me about it, and I tell them I haven't seen you. The next day, Ann shows up unharmed - she wasn't kidnapped after all. She was just out of town. Didn't I still commit a crime by lying to the FBI, even though no other crime was committed?
I think they'd have to have credible evidence of foul play before corralling a suspect's friends. If she was just out of town, I'm sure there'd be a paper trail. Plus, why would you lie to the police about this? If the suspect actually IS guilty, you're now an accomplice.

Last edited by Locrian; 02-19-2018 at 04:16 PM.
  #2659  
Old 02-19-2018, 04:24 PM
Ambrosio Spinola is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuauhtemoc View Post
Suppose the FBI suspects that you've kidnapped Ann Hedonia and they want to question you. You come to my house and tell me you're going to hide in Arizona. The next day they ask me about it, and I tell them I haven't seen you. The next day, Ann shows up unharmed - she wasn't kidnapped after all. She was just out of town. Didn't I still commit a crime by lying to the FBI, even though no other crime was committed?
Making a materially false statement to the FBI is itself a federal offense and yes, they will bust you for it.
  #2660  
Old 02-19-2018, 05:09 PM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locrian View Post
I think they'd have to have credible evidence of foul play before corralling a suspect's friends. If she was just out of town, I'm sure there'd be a paper trail. Plus, why would you lie to the police about this? If the suspect actually IS guilty, you're now an accomplice.
Because maybe you are trying to protect a friend you think is guilty. That’s still a crime.
__________________
SlackerInc on Twitter: http://twitter.com/slackerinc
  #2661  
Old 02-19-2018, 06:12 PM
Ukulele Ike is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 17,721
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
Because maybe you are trying to protect a friend you think is guilty. That’s still a crime.
I think all my friends are guilty.
__________________
Uke
  #2662  
Old 02-19-2018, 06:17 PM
SteveG1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Van Nuys CA
Posts: 14,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuauhtemoc View Post
The FBI director was following credible evidence suggesting that a crime had been committed. Isn't it a crime to interfere with that whether or not a crime is found to have been committed?

Suppose the FBI suspects that you've kidnapped Ann Hedonia and they want to question you. You come to my house and tell me you're going to hide in Arizona. The next day they ask me about it, and I tell them I haven't seen you. The next day, Ann shows up unharmed - she wasn't kidnapped after all. She was just out of town. Didn't I still commit a crime by lying to the FBI, even though no other crime was committed?
Isn't it a crime to interfere with that whether or not a crime is found to have been committed? - That is Obstruction Of Justice.

Didn't I still commit a crime by lying to the FBI - Yes you did, because you did it knowingly and deliberately, to interfere with the investigation, to obstruct justice.

If it was under oath, you now have perjury too.
  #2663  
Old 02-19-2018, 06:32 PM
Ann Hedonia's Avatar
Ann Hedonia is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuauhtemoc View Post
The FBI director was following credible evidence suggesting that a crime had been committed. Isn't it a crime to interfere with that whether or not a crime is found to have been committed?

Suppose the FBI suspects that you've kidnapped Ann Hedonia and they want to question you. You come to my house and tell me you're going to hide in Arizona. The next day they ask me about it, and I tell them I haven't seen you. The next day, Ann shows up unharmed - she wasn't kidnapped after all. She was just out of town. Didn't I still commit a crime by lying to the FBI, even though no other crime was committed?
It very well might be.

Let’s say the FBI comes to question you ( I’m not really clear who “you” is in this scenario, but whatever) - and I’m in your bedroom because we are having a clandestine affair. So you lie,- because you’re afraid if you tell the truth your wife will find out.

So you say you haven’t seen me. So the FBI gets some helicopters or dogs and launches a full out search. Maybe they search my ex- husbands home and trash his house. Maybe they arrest him, because they believed you and they think my ex was lying about you and me.

So when I come waltzing home unharmed, yes, you might possibly be in some trouble. Because they wasted a lot of time and resources. And yes, you might be arrested. And you might have some civil liability, too - if my ex starts filing lawsuits.

ETA : I just realized your last sentence began with “didn’t “, not “did”. So the phrasing and tone of my response may seem off. But the point still stands

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 02-19-2018 at 06:37 PM.
  #2664  
Old 02-20-2018, 09:27 AM
Ambrosio Spinola is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambrosio Spinola View Post
Making a materially false statement to the FBI is itself a federal offense and yes, they will bust you for it.
Hey look, Mueller just charged some guy for this exact thing.

If you read the actual information itself, it's fairly apparent that when the FBI interviewed this Van Der Zwaan character, they already knew perfectly well when he'd spoken to Rick Gates and already had a copy of the e-mails that Van Der Zwaan denied having. So this presented no actual obstacle to the investigation itself, it was just a chance for him to pick up a felony charge for lying about it.
  #2665  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:19 AM
Gyrate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greater Croydonia
Posts: 23,838
So does that put the current count at 18 people indicted with 2 (soon potentially to be 3) guilty pleas entered?
__________________
"Don't delude yourself into thinking we're interested in you. We're just here for the trainwreck, man." - DooWahDiddy
  #2666  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:29 AM
Ambrosio Spinola is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
So does that put the current count at 18 people indicted with 2 (soon potentially to be 3) guilty pleas entered?
19 people, don't forget Richard Pinedo, who sort of got overshadowed by the 12 Russians. Alex Van Der Zwaan is expected to plead guilty this afternoon, and Rick Gates is reported to have made a deal, so that would be 2 more pleas if so.
  #2667  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:37 AM
cuauhtemoc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 3,120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann Hedonia View Post
Let’s say the FBI comes to question you ( I’m not really clear who “you” is in this scenario, but whatever) - and I’m in your bedroom because we are having a clandestine affair. So you lie,- because you’re afraid if you tell the truth your wife will find out.

So you say you haven’t seen me. So the FBI gets some helicopters or dogs and launches a full out search. Maybe they search my ex- husbands home and trash his house. Maybe they arrest him, because they believed you and they think my ex was lying about you and me.

So when I come waltzing home unharmed, yes, you might possibly be in some trouble. Because they wasted a lot of time and resources.
But I think it's established that, even if NONE of this happened, I still committed a crime.

In the case of the Mueller probe, there are now people indicted for committing actual crimes against actual Americans. If (when) more people are charged, the fact that these initial 13 indictments are out there... I'm sure it helps prosecutors a lot in terms of public perception of the case. It helps politically, is what I'm saying.

But strictly speaking, they're not necessary for the case against anybody else, am I right? The FBI was doing its job, trying to find out whether any crimes were committed, when the thing in the oval office asked the director to "let it go." When the director didn't comply, he fired him. And he brazenly told the world it was because of "the Russia thing." There's your obstruction, right there.

The 13 indictments support the obstruction charges, obviously. Maybe there'd be no chance of getting them to stick if without them. Obstructing an investigation that uncovered actual crimes is much worse than obstructing a fruitless investigation.
  #2668  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:53 AM
enipla is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Rockies.
Posts: 14,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambrosio Spinola View Post
19 people, don't forget Richard Pinedo, who sort of got overshadowed by the 12 Russians. Alex Van Der Zwaan is expected to plead guilty this afternoon, and Rick Gates is reported to have made a deal, so that would be 2 more pleas if so.
There is a Wiki page to help keep up with the investigation Richard Pinedo isn't in it. Yet. Zwaan is though.

You'll need a few hours to start, and it looks like a few hours a day.

Just another day with trump as president.
__________________
I don't live in the middle of nowhere, but I can see it from here.
  #2669  
Old 02-20-2018, 11:33 AM
RickJay is offline
Charter Jays Fan
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Oakville, Canada
Posts: 41,643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
In that shortened quote from your linked Politico story, I was struck by Goldwater's remark "There are only so many lies you can take." It strikes the ear as a faint and far-off echo from a bygone era, never to return. (Clearly the capacity to Take Lies has increased dramatically in today's congressional Republicans.)
Goldwater was a different cat even by the standards of his era.

They should have taken him more seriously when he spoke out against the religious right, whom he loathed, and predicted would do enormous harm.
__________________
Providing useless posts since 1999!
  #2670  
Old 02-20-2018, 11:48 AM
SteveG1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Van Nuys CA
Posts: 14,334
[QUOTE=cuauhtemoc;20800295] ...The FBI was doing its job, trying to find out whether any crimes were committed, when the thing in the oval office asked the director to "let it go." When the director didn't comply, he fired him. And he brazenly told the world it was because of "the Russia thing." There's your obstruction, right there.

The 13 indictments support the obstruction charges, obviously. ...QUOTE]
Yes yes yes.
  #2671  
Old 02-20-2018, 01:23 PM
Fiveyearlurker is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambrosio Spinola View Post
19 people, don't forget Richard Pinedo, who sort of got overshadowed by the 12 Russians. Alex Van Der Zwaan is expected to plead guilty this afternoon, and Rick Gates is reported to have made a deal, so that would be 2 more pleas if so.
Alex Van Der Zwaan "is the son-in-law of Russian billionaire German Khan, who is one of the most prominent businessmen in Russia. Khan co-founded Alfa Group, a large financial conglomerate, and was recently named in the Treasury Department's list of Russian oligarchs"

Alfa group. Where do I remember that name? Oh yeah, the secret server communicating between Russian banks and Trump Tower.

Weird coincidence.

Last edited by Fiveyearlurker; 02-20-2018 at 01:23 PM.
  #2672  
Old 02-20-2018, 02:29 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 27,534
I'm seeing headlines but no stories yet that van der Zwaag is going to agree to plead guilty has already entered a guilty plea.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 02-20-2018 at 02:29 PM.
  #2673  
Old 02-20-2018, 02:33 PM
Defensive Indifference is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 7,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
Alex Van Der Zwaan "is the son-in-law of Russian billionaire German Khan, who is one of the most prominent businessmen in Russia. Khan co-founded Alfa Group, a large financial conglomerate, and was recently named in the Treasury Department's list of Russian oligarchs"

Alfa group. Where do I remember that name? Oh yeah, the secret server communicating between Russian banks and Trump Tower.

Weird coincidence.
Wow! Is this being discussed elsewhere in the media? It seems like a pretty significant connection.

The 2016 article from Slate where the communications between the Trump organization and Alfa Bank were first reported is well worth reading (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...th_russia.html). It's a bit long, but very readable and compelling.

I'm a computer security guy, though the intricacies of DNS traffic are a bit outside my area of expertise. It does sound like the Trump organization and Alfa Bank were exchanging a lot of email in 2016, then abruptly stopped when the communication became publicly known.

Some quotes from the Slate article:
Quote:
Earlier this month, the group of computer scientists passed the logs to Paul Vixie. In the world of DNS experts, there’s no higher authority. Vixie wrote central strands of the DNS code that makes the internet work. After studying the logs, he concluded, “The parties were communicating in a secretive fashion. The operative word is secretive. This is more akin to what criminal syndicates do if they are putting together a project.” Put differently, the logs suggested that Trump and Alfa had configured something like a digital hotline connecting the two entities, shutting out the rest of the world, and designed to obscure its own existence.
Quote:
Alfa’s oligarchs occupied an unusual position in Putin’s firmament. They were insiders but not in the closest ring of power. “It’s like they were his judo pals,” one former U.S. government official who knows Fridman told me. “They were always worried about where they stood in the pecking order and always feared expropriation.” Fridman and Aven, however, are adept at staying close to power. As the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia once ruled, in the course of dismissing a libel suit the bankers filed, “Aven and Fridman have assumed an unforeseen level of prominence and influence in the economic and political affairs of their nation.”

Unlike other Russian firms, Alfa has operated smoothly and effortlessly in the West. It has never been slapped with sanctions.
Hmmm. Bankers who are influential and in Putin's orbit, and who can operate easily inside the US. The son-in-law of one of them is pulled into the Mueller investigation and lies about his contacts with a mysterious "Person A". The guy is a lawyer and must know that he can't get away with lying to Mueller. This is probably not the last we'll hear of this guy.

Last edited by Defensive Indifference; 02-20-2018 at 02:35 PM.
  #2674  
Old 02-20-2018, 03:00 PM
Ambrosio Spinola is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayard View Post
The guy is a lawyer and must know that he can't get away with lying to Mueller. This is probably not the last we'll hear of this guy.
We'll probably hear more about him but he did think that he could get away with it, or he wouldn't have been in court today pleading to a felony charge. You would think a lawyer would know better than to ever voluntarily talk to Mueller's people.
  #2675  
Old 02-20-2018, 03:14 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 27,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
I'm seeing headlines but no stories yet that van der Zwaag is going to agree to plead guilty has already entered a guilty plea.
https://apnews.com/3fd89fc18d21488bb...federal-agents
  #2676  
Old 02-20-2018, 03:41 PM
friedo's Avatar
friedo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 24,432
I can't help but be really impressed with a guy who would throw away a law license and a career at one of the world's most prestigious law firms just to be a third-tier schmuck in an organization of schmucks.
  #2677  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:20 PM
Merneith is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: The Group W Bench
Posts: 6,886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
Alex Van Der Zwaan "is the son-in-law of Russian billionaire German Khan, who is one of the most prominent businessmen in Russia. Khan co-founded Alfa Group, a large financial conglomerate, and was recently named in the Treasury Department's list of Russian oligarchs"

Alfa group. Where do I remember that name? Oh yeah, the secret server communicating between Russian banks and Trump Tower.

Weird coincidence.
Yeah. German Khan is mentioned on page 25 of the Dossier by the by -

http://annotateddossier.com/#page25


Quote:
Originally Posted by annotated dossier

Detail

1. Speaking to a trusted compatriot in mid-September 2016, a top level Russian government official commented on the history and current state of relations between President PUTIN and the Alpha Group of businesses led by oligarchs Mikhail FRIDMAN, Petr AVEN and German KHAN. The Russian government figure reported that although they had had their ups and downs, the leading figures in Alpha currently were on very good terms with PUTIN. Significant favours continued to be done in both directions, primarily political ones for PUTIN and business/legal ones for Alpha. Also, FRIDMAN and AVEN continued to give informal advice to PUTIN on foreign policy, and especially about the US where he distrusted advice being given to him by officials.
Also, consider this -

van der Svann (great name!) is in trouble because, a while back, Yulia Timoschenko led a revolution in Ukraine to throw off their ties to Moscow. She was named Prime Minister until 2010, when she ran for President against Victor Yanukovich, who was pro-Russian and a client of Paul Manafort. Yanukovich won.

A year later, she was arrested and tried for abuse of office. This was widely regarded as a political move. The Ukrainian government hired Skadden Arps(van der Svann's law firm) to write a reported declaring that the arrest was not political. van der Svann (the son of a Russian Oligarch and head of Alfa bank, remember) was one of a group responsible for authoring the report.

In other news, Paul Manafort's daughter went to work for Skadden Arps in 2012. Just FYI.

February 2014 - Yanukovich is run out of Ukraine. Putin invades Ukraine, reinstalls Yanukovich and annexes Crimea. Fighting continues.

A bunch of backstory I don't feel like deleting:

SPOILER:


In March 29, 2016, Paul Manafort joins the Trump campaign. The Russian trollnet starts buying pro-Donald ads and other pro-Donald actions.

April 2016 - regular meetings between Republican Trump supporters and various Russians. Pappadopoulus is running around showing off his Trump credentials.

April 26 - Papadopoulus is told that the Russians have Hillary's emails

April 29th - suspicious activity found on DNC servers, later connected to Russian Hackers

May 6 - first recorded activity between Alfa Bank and the server at Trump tower.

May 19 - Manafort named Trump's campaign chair

Jun 3 - Don Jr is told about meeting to hand over Russian dirt on Hillary; replies Love it!

June 9 - the Big Meeting

June 10 - Alfa Bank - Trump server activity increases dramatically

July 14 - Trump campaign lobbies the RNC to change their platform to be more supportive of ongoing Russian efforts to attack Ukraine

July 31 - Trump & Manafort separately deny having anything to do with platform change. Manafort also denies that Putin annexed Crimea (LOL).

Aug 14 - Manafort is exposed by the NYT as appearing in a ledger which claims that he recieved millions of dollars from the Yanukovich, uh, party, I guess I'd say

Aug 19 - Manafort resigns from the Trump Campaign (And sets up a shell company to handle money from assorted Russian parties. But that's a different post.)


August 2016 - Rick Gates, Manafort's business partner, goes to work for hte RNC, and eventually, for the Trump transition team.

September 2016 - Gates and someone listed as Person A in the van der Swann indictment call van der Swann with questions about that Yukrainian report. Gates recorded the call.


This is where van der Swann screws up. Fast forward and Rick Gates is arrested and trying to make a deal with Mueller. He tells Mueller about this conversation in re the report on Timoshcenko's arrest. Mueller asks van der Swann about it. He claims that he didn't talk to Gates or Person A at the time of the recording. van der Swann also tried to hide an email exchange.

All of this to say - yup, total hoax. All a coincidence.
  #2678  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:22 PM
Lance Turbo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 4,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
Alex Van Der Zwaan "is the son-in-law of Russian billionaire German Khan, who is one of the most prominent businessmen in Russia. Khan co-founded Alfa Group, a large financial conglomerate, and was recently named in the Treasury Department's list of Russian oligarchs"

Alfa group. Where do I remember that name? Oh yeah, the secret server communicating between Russian banks and Trump Tower.

Weird coincidence.
I don't know if this is part of the same weird coincidence or a separate weird coincidence, but German Khan is also suing Buzzfeed for libel for publishing Steele's dossier.

Last edited by Lance Turbo; 02-20-2018 at 04:24 PM. Reason: fyi, I had not seen Merneith's post when I posted this
  #2679  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:22 PM
Procrustus is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pacific NW. ¥
Posts: 12,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by friedo View Post
I can't help but be really impressed with a guy who would throw away a law license and a career at one of the world's most prestigious law firms just to be a third-tier schmuck in an organization of schmucks.
When your father-in-law is a billionaire, you got options.
  #2680  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:25 PM
WordMan is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 22,458
Quote:
Originally Posted by friedo View Post
I can't help but be really impressed with a guy who would throw away a law license and a career at one of the world's most prestigious law firms just to be a third-tier schmuck in an organization of schmucks.
While married to the daughter of a billionaire. He sold out but was dreaming big.

Tool.

ETA: ninja’d!!

Last edited by WordMan; 02-20-2018 at 04:26 PM.
  #2681  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:26 PM
Merneith is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: The Group W Bench
Posts: 6,886
Quote:
Originally Posted by friedo View Post
I can't help but be really impressed with a guy who would throw away a law license and a career at one of the world's most prestigious law firms just to be a third-tier schmuck in an organization of schmucks.
His father-in-law's a billionaire Russian oligarch and he was involved in helping pro-Russian activities in the Ukrainian government. Just another coincidental Russian connection among Donald's friends.

Anyway. I'm sure he'll be fine. His father in law can buy him a new degree. Maybe he'll be an architect this time!
  #2682  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:29 PM
Defensive Indifference is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 7,251
Well, yeah, Merneith, it sounds bad when you put it like that. But the van der Swann indictment doesn't say that Trump was personally involved, so I think this is good news for Trump. He's not implicated at all. This is just more evidence that Mueller has no case. This'll all blow over soon.
  #2683  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:38 PM
WordMan is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 22,458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayard View Post
Well, yeah, Merneith, it sounds bad when you put it like that. But the van der Swann indictment doesn't say that Trump was personally involved, so I think this is good news for Trump. He's not implicated at all. This is just more evidence that Mueller has no case. This'll all blow over soon.
Really??!! I see Mueller taking his time and building his case slowly. The midterm elections are what matters, and what Mueller moves on right before and right after that.
  #2684  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:42 PM
Lance Turbo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 4,262
Exactly, the fact that the van der Swann indictment is not a smoking gun with Trump's fingerprints on it tells us exactly two things. Furthermore, we must simultaneously hold these two thoughts in our heads because... reasons.

1) Every time Mueller indicts someone who isn't Trump, Trump is totally vindicated. This is like Trump's seventh total vindication in 2018 alone. That's some top flight vindicating Bob.

2) The fact that Trump was not named shows that the Mueller investigation is total waste of time and Mueller would better serve the country by trying to predict where the next high school shooting will occur. How do you sleep at night Bob? Are childrens' cries of anguish like lullabies to you (you sick fuck)?

Last edited by Lance Turbo; 02-20-2018 at 04:44 PM.
  #2685  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:43 PM
Lance Turbo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 4,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by WordMan View Post
Really??!! I see Mueller taking his time and building his case slowly. The midterm elections are what matters, and what Mueller moves on right before and right after that.
Mueller's pace is not politically motivated.
  #2686  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:50 PM
JohnT's Avatar
JohnT is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 23,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by WordMan View Post
Really??!! I see Mueller taking his time and building his case slowly. The midterm elections are what matters, and what Mueller moves on right before and right after that.
I read sarcasm in Bayards words, but maybe it's just me.
  #2687  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:54 PM
Mind's Eye, Watering is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
I read sarcasm in Bayards words, but maybe it's just me.
That's what I got, too.
  #2688  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:55 PM
Superdude is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Fortress of Solidude
Posts: 10,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
I read sarcasm in Bayards words, but maybe it's just me.
So did I
__________________
I can't help being a gorgeous fiend. It's just the card I drew.
  #2689  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:55 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 27,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Turbo View Post
I don't know if this is part of the same weird coincidence or a separate weird coincidence, but German Khan is also suing Buzzfeed for libel for publishing Steele's dossier.
Same "coincidence".
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
I read sarcasm in Bayards words, but maybe it's just me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind's Eye, Watering View Post
That's what I got, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
So did I
I'll make it four.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 02-20-2018 at 04:57 PM.
  #2690  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:57 PM
SteveG1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Van Nuys CA
Posts: 14,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
I read sarcasm in Bayards words, but maybe it's just me.
Nope, it was dripping with sarcasm. Obvious is an understatement.
  #2691  
Old 02-20-2018, 04:59 PM
Defensive Indifference is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 7,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by WordMan View Post
Really??!!
Sorry, I was just being a smartass. Seriously, I think this is yet more bad news for Trump, and the end game of this is Trump himself being indicted, or at least his administration being hollowed out. I won't be really happy unless Trump is drummed out of office in the most humiliating way possible, but if everyone around him falls, that will at least be an improvement.
  #2692  
Old 02-20-2018, 05:20 PM
friedo's Avatar
friedo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 24,432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merneith View Post
Anyway. I'm sure he'll be fine. His father in law can buy him a new degree. Maybe he'll be an architect this time!
City planner!
  #2693  
Old 02-20-2018, 08:52 PM
kaylasdad99 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 32,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merneith View Post
van der Svann (great name!) is in trouble because, a while back, Yulia Timoschenko led a revolution in Ukraine to throw off their ties to Moscow. She was named Prime Minister until 2010, when she ran for President against Victor Yanukovich, who was pro-Russian and a client of Paul Manafort. Yanukovich won.

A year later, she was arrested and tried for abuse of office. This was widely regarded as a political move. The Ukrainian government hired Skadden Arps(van der Svann's law firm) to write a reported declaring that the arrest was not political. van der Svann (the son of a Russian Oligarch and head of Alfa bank, remember) was one of a group responsible for authoring the report.

In other news, Paul Manafort's daughter went to work for Skadden Arps in 2012. Just FYI.

February 2014 - Yanukovich is run out of Ukraine. Putin invades Ukraine, reinstalls Yanukovich and annexes Crimea. Fighting continues.
waitaminutewaitaminutewaitaminute.

I get that Putin annexed Crimea.

I get that his military activities in support of the annexation amounted to an invasion of the sovereign state of Ukraine.

I missed the bit about Putin reinstalling Yanukovych as President of Ukraine.

I suspect I'm missing some nuanced interpretation of events in which it can plausibly be claimed that Yanukovych had been reinstalled by Putin. Because, to me, that implies that he's back in his presidential palace, ordering people around, rather than in exile in Russia, hiding from prosecution for high treason (which is where his Wikipedia article places him).

Could you help me out?
  #2694  
Old 02-20-2018, 08:54 PM
SteveG1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Van Nuys CA
Posts: 14,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickJay View Post
Goldwater was a different cat even by the standards of his era.

They should have taken him more seriously when he spoke out against the religious right, whom he loathed, and predicted would do enormous harm.
And he was right.

“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”

I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?
And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."

"I think every good Christian ought to kick Falwell right in the ass."
  #2695  
Old 02-20-2018, 08:57 PM
SteveG1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Van Nuys CA
Posts: 14,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayard View Post
Sorry, I was just being a smartass. Seriously, I think this is yet more bad news for Trump, and the end game of this is Trump himself being indicted, or at least his administration being hollowed out. I won't be really happy unless Trump is drummed out of office in the most humiliating way possible, but if everyone around him falls, that will at least be an improvement.
I won't be satisfied with just that. Remember the scene from Game of Thrones?

Shame. Shame. Shame.

Dragged through the mud, covered with shit, humiliated, financially ruined forever, friendless, abandoned, broken, and then tossed in prison forever.
  #2696  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:25 PM
Merneith is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: The Group W Bench
Posts: 6,886
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
I missed the bit about Putin reinstalling Yanukovych as President of Ukraine.

I suspect I'm missing some nuanced interpretation of events in which it can plausibly be claimed that Yanukovych had been reinstalled by Putin. Because, to me, that implies that he's back in his presidential palace, ordering people around, rather than in exile in Russia, hiding from prosecution for high treason (which is where his Wikipedia article places him).

Could you help me out?
You're correct. Yanukovych is MIA. I was conflating the invasion of Crimea with his fleeing office. I seem to recall that there was talk of reinstating Yanukovych, but I can't remember where at this time. I might just be mistaken.

Also according to Wiki - Yanukovych made off with the equivalent of $70 Billion Dollars, so if he's still alive, I assume he has better things to do.
  #2697  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:26 PM
j666 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Away for a while
Posts: 7,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveG1 View Post
And he was right.

“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. ..."
So, a "Goldwater Republican" is one that is sane?
  #2698  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:46 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 27,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by j666 View Post
So, a "Goldwater Republican" is one that is sane?
Whoa WHOA whoa; no one said "sane".

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 02-20-2018 at 10:47 PM.
  #2699  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:52 PM
Aspenglow's Avatar
Aspenglow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 4,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merneith View Post
Yeah. German Khan is mentioned on page 25 of the Dossier by the by -

http://annotateddossier.com/#page25

All of this to say - yup, total hoax. All a coincidence.
Awesome post, Merneith.

And yeah... there's that pesky, hoax-ey dossier again.
  #2700  
Old 02-21-2018, 07:28 AM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 16,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by j666 View Post
So, a "Goldwater Republican" is one that is sane?
No, A Goldwater Republican is one with balls, for good or for ill. There don't appear to be any in the current Congress.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:46 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017