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Old 04-27-2018, 08:14 AM
fjs1fs fjs1fs is offline
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Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
There are pacing issues in the second half, but a lot of it is worth it in my opinion. I think the sniper situation alone is worth watching the second half.

But I would bet most people quote and think about the first 45 minutes 10x more often than the second.
I agree. The whole movie is probably the best war movie I've ever seen--it was overshadowed by the much longer and much more boring Platoon which I believe came out the same year. I get that the first half was super amazing, but the 2nd half gets a lot of undeserved dislike--maybe just because the first half (featuring an amazing performance by Ermey) was such a tough act to follow.
  #52  
Old 04-27-2018, 08:17 AM
fjs1fs fjs1fs is offline
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What strikes me about his barely-fictional role in FMJ was that he was a damned fine teacher. Yes, he used some techniques that a teacher wouldn't ordinarily use... but he also had six weeks to teach his students things that lives would literally depend on. And there are also some more conventional teaching techniques hiding in there. Like, when he made Joker responsible for Pyle's success, he was doing as much as he could to help Pyle... but he was also teaching Joker to become a leader, because he saw that potential in him.
Yeah, he was a HUGE help in Pyle's life!!!
  #53  
Old 04-27-2018, 08:34 AM
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minor7flat5 minor7flat5 is offline
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Originally Posted by fjs1fs View Post
I agree. The whole movie is probably the best war movie I've ever seen--it was overshadowed by the much longer and much more boring Platoon which I believe came out the same year. I get that the first half was super amazing, but the 2nd half gets a lot of undeserved dislike--maybe just because the first half (featuring an amazing performance by Ermey) was such a tough act to follow.
I wouldn't necessarily say "dislike"--it simply has been done many times in other films. The film is 50% amazingly real boot camp followed by ... another war movie. The second half was fairly predictable (e.g. "don't pick up that stuffed animal, every movie-goer knows it's an obvious booby trap!"), but was still Kubrick (one Kubrick trademark is the ugly faces, such as Joker's face when he shoots the sniper. cf: the writer's face when he recognizes Alex's voice as that of his attacker in A Clockwork Orange).

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Originally Posted by fjs1fs View Post
Yeah, he was a HUGE help in Pyle's life!!!
Indeed, though the film was showing an extraordinary event among a bunch of normal daily activities in the military. Realistically, Pyle would most likely have been discharged early on, though with the exigency of the moment it makes sense that the bar might have been lowered.

But that was the magic of Ermey--everything he did had purpose, reflecting the military training specialist he was in real life. He had read the original story ("The Short Timers") and correctly recognized that the drill sergeant depicted there was a sadist who had no business training recruits. And Kubrick listened to him.

By the way, anyone who is curious should Google "The Short Timers" (I believe it's out there in PDF) and give it a read--Ermey's magic is so much more evident when contrasted with the original source material.
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Old 04-27-2018, 03:39 PM
74westy 74westy is offline
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Yeah, he was a HUGE help in Pyle's life!!!
Indeed. I strongly disagree with Chronos that Hartman did anything to help Pyle.

Hartman sacrificed Pyle for the sake of the others. He held Pyle up as the exemplar of what the recruits did not want to become. He saw this as virtuous because Pyle's example would motivate the others to gain the skills and attitudes that would keep them alive in combat. Maybe it did that but it was done at the expense of Pyle--not for his benefit.
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  #55  
Old 04-27-2018, 04:06 PM
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But when Pyle turned into super-Marine after the blanket party, Hartman praised him. He told him he was "born again hard", and that his shooting was "Outstanding." He wanted Pyle to become a good Marine, he just didn't realize he had gone completely around the bend.
  #56  
Old 04-27-2018, 04:41 PM
xizor xizor is offline
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I get that the first half was super amazing, but the 2nd half gets a lot of undeserved dislike--maybe just because the first half (featuring an amazing performance by Ermey) was such a tough act to follow.
The first act of the second half is the "Oh, me so horny" scene which is cinematic gold.
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Old 04-27-2018, 07:04 PM
cochrane cochrane is offline
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