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  #4851  
Old 07-23-2018, 01:06 PM
jayjay jayjay is offline
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Really, 'luci? I'd have expected better from you.

Everyone knows that that should be "dawgy style".
Oh, garsh!
  #4852  
Old 07-25-2018, 02:58 PM
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One thing that I'll note, from having recently re-read the Steele dossier is that Trump was purported to be used by Russia mainly as a source of information on Russians living in the US.

Knowing that Trump was regularly purchasing stories from the Enquirer, it becomes a point of interest whether he was only buying stories related to himself, or if he had a list of Russian names that he also paid for information on.
  #4853  
Old 07-25-2018, 03:13 PM
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Soccer ball Putin gave to Trump had transmitter chip in it.
Quote:
But rather than a spy device, the chip is an advertised feature of the Adidas AG ball. Photographs from the news conference in Helsinki, where Putin handed the ball to Trump, show it bore a logo for a near-field communication tag. During manufacturing, the NFC chip is placed inside the ball under that logo, which resembles the icon for a WiFi signal, according to the Adidas website.

The chip allows fans to access player videos, competitions and other content by bringing their mobile devices close to the ball. The feature is included in the 2018 FIFA World Cup match ball that’s sold on the Adidas website for $165 (reduced to $83 in the past week).
  #4854  
Old 07-25-2018, 09:49 PM
elucidator elucidator is online now
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So, does Cortana scream "GGGOOOOOOOAAALLL!!!!"
  #4855  
Old 07-26-2018, 08:24 AM
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So, does Cortana scream "GGGOOOOOOOAAALLL!!!!"
Only if you get really intimate with her it. Or so I hear...

Last edited by John Mace; 07-26-2018 at 08:25 AM.
  #4856  
Old 07-30-2018, 02:44 PM
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“Putin’s favorite congressman” Dana Rohrabacher says that anyone in Washington would’ve met with the Russians to get dirt on Hillary Clinton.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...olitical-dirt/

We've arrived at "Yeah, we colluded with the Russians: so what?"
  #4857  
Old 07-30-2018, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Fear Itself View Post
“Putin’s favorite congressman” Dana Rohrabacher says that anyone in Washington would’ve met with the Russians to get dirt on Hillary Clinton.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...olitical-dirt/

We've arrived at "Yeah, we colluded with the Russians: so what?"
Next up, of course: "Colluding with the Russians was the patriotic thing to do! Be grateful Trump had the courage to do it! MAGA!"

...and as with most of the Trumpist double-think, they are careful to avoid even thinking of the question 'how, exactly, does Trump being Putin's stooge make America great again, anyway?.....'
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  #4858  
Old 07-30-2018, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Fear Itself View Post
“Putin’s favorite congressman” Dana Rohrabacher says that anyone in Washington would’ve met with the Russians to get dirt on Hillary Clinton.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...olitical-dirt/

We've arrived at "Yeah, we colluded with the Russians: so what?"
Nixon always believed that everyone else was dirty, too. Is there some sort of term for it, where one assumes that everyone else is as criminal as you are, so it's just being stupid to not act faster and firmer in criminal ways to keep ahead of them?
  #4859  
Old 07-30-2018, 04:26 PM
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Nixon always believed that everyone else was dirty, too. Is there some sort of term for it, where one assumes that everyone else is as criminal as you are, so it's just being stupid to not act faster and firmer in criminal ways to keep ahead of them?
I believe the technical term for believing that other people think the same way you do, is "being human."

It's a failure of our species. We may say we realize that others think differently, but in fact we don't really believe it.

So criminals do assume that everyone has the same exploitative impulses they do. Sociopaths assume that everyone else wants to commit mayhem in the most sadistic way possible. And decent people believe that everyone, deep down, is good.

Just ain't so.
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  #4860  
Old 07-30-2018, 04:31 PM
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Nixon always believed that everyone else was dirty, too. Is there some sort of term for it, where one assumes that everyone else is as criminal as you are, so it's just being stupid to not act faster and firmer in criminal ways to keep ahead of them?
The Republicans don't assume that Democrats are just as bad as they are; they know that they aren't quite that bad, and they see that as their advantage. For years, the Republicans have been willing to do anything to win an election, because they don't believe in democracy.
  #4861  
Old 07-30-2018, 07:17 PM
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Nixon always believed that everyone else was dirty, too. Is there some sort of term for it, where one assumes that everyone else is as criminal as you are, so it's just being stupid to not act faster and firmer in criminal ways to keep ahead of them?
Projection. The whole right wing has more of it than a multiplex theater.
  #4862  
Old 07-31-2018, 02:40 AM
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Giuliani talks about a claim by Cohen that there was a planning meeting for the Veselnitskaya meeting:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...-tower-meeting

Obviously, it never happened.
  #4863  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:12 AM
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Giuliani talks about a claim by Cohen that there was a planning meeting for the Veselnitskaya meeting:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...-tower-meeting

Obviously, it never happened.
I think I'm hearing Giuliani describe an *alleged* meeting. He describes in detail the purpose, attendees, and dates. Then he says it didn't happen. That's a curiously detailed description of a thing that didn't happen.
  #4864  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:23 AM
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Anyone got Batman's number? I think Rudolph Cobblepot needs some time back in Arkham.
  #4865  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:38 AM
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This will not be news to anyone in this thread, but it's a good, short video explaining how Russian interference was enough to put Trump in the White House. It's Max Boot, summarizing a paywalled column of his that appeared in The Washington Post a couple days ago. It's only a little over 3 minutes long and worth a watch. Boot argues that the disinformation campaign, the altering of voter rolls, and the timed release of hacked DNC emails were enough to put Trump over the top in an election that was swayed by, in Boot's estimation, 80,000 votes in three states.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFyQ...ature=youtu.be
  #4866  
Old 08-05-2018, 11:25 AM
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There was no collusion! Derpity derp...
  #4867  
Old 08-05-2018, 11:38 AM
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"... well, my son colluded. BUT I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT! AND IT WAS TOTALLY LEGAL ANYWAY, BUT JUST PUTTING IT OUT THERE THAT *I* DIDN'T DO IT. IT WAS JUNIOR!"
  #4868  
Old 08-05-2018, 11:39 AM
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I think we can now amend this thread title to "Don Jr colluded with Russians, according to his Dad."
  #4869  
Old 08-05-2018, 11:40 AM
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Trump's tweeting fingers are his own worst enemy.
  #4870  
Old 08-05-2018, 11:43 AM
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Trump's tweeting fingers are his own worst enemy.
Fake Fingers! Lying Digits! Crooked Claws!

Maybe it's like the movie where the guy gets the evil hand that keeps trying to kill people, except instead, it's an evil guy with a good hand that is trying to warn everyone.
  #4871  
Old 08-05-2018, 11:45 AM
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"... well, my son colluded. BUT I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT! AND IT WAS TOTALLY LEGAL ANYWAY, BUT JUST PUTTING IT OUT THERE THAT *I* DIDN'T DO IT. IT WAS JUNIOR!"
It was legal, yet we lied about it because...
  #4872  
Old 08-05-2018, 11:56 AM
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It was legal, yet we lied about it because...
To be fair, "We lied out of habit." is not actually an unreasonable defense for them.
  #4873  
Old 08-05-2018, 12:03 PM
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Covfefe!
  #4874  
Old 08-05-2018, 12:36 PM
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"Really, Don Jr was a nobody. He may have fetched covfefe for some of the staff. Or so I was told. I never met him. He had no official role in my campaign."
  #4875  
Old 08-06-2018, 07:19 AM
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Josh Marshall from TPM makes the point that since Trump and his team have lied about every aspect of the Trump Tower meeting with Russian agents so far, there's no reason to believe they're telling the truth when they say that the meeting produced nothing of value. Even if they didn't hand over a dossier in that meeting, they easily could have coordinated future leaks or the timing of other damaging Clinton information:

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/assume-nothing
  #4876  
Old 08-06-2018, 08:01 AM
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Once again, Trump’s explaination of his actions reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnttBhGVytc

What’s amazing is that some people can hear a statement like that, and walk away that the matter has been totally addressed.
  #4877  
Old 08-06-2018, 08:03 AM
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Josh Marshall from TPM makes the point that since Trump and his team have lied about every aspect of the Trump Tower meeting with Russian agents so far, there's no reason to believe they're telling the truth when they say that the meeting produced nothing of value. Even if they didn't hand over a dossier in that meeting, they easily could have coordinated future leaks or the timing of other damaging Clinton information:

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/assume-nothing
While there are some curious points in Manafort's notes on the meeting, that could be worrisome, it seems reasonable to assume that he made the notes in a chronological order as the meeting went on. Based on that, they clearly started by talking about Browder and ended by talking about sanctions - which is to say, they started and ended talking about the Magnitsky Act. While we might not understand those middle points, it seems more likely that those are things we don't understand about the Act than that they are something on some other topic.

Personally, I think that Veselnitskaya was operating independently of the GRU and Yevgeny Prigozhin's troll farm. Her job was to work on bringing an end to Magnitsky and that's what she was trying to do. Her other job, in the US, was after all to try and use our court system to get Bill Browder as we know from Glenn Simpson.

She suckered Trump's team, and got a chance to lobby them using a bit of fluff that she'd been able to get her hands on.

This doesn't absolve Junior of making an attempt to use the Russian intelligence apparatus to win an election, since that's what he was almost certainly trying to do and is, in essence, treason. It's just happenstance that he ended up entrapping himself via a random group of Russians rather than through a string operation.

But the Trump Tower meeting is not the only matter of likely coordination between the campaign and Russia. It seems likely that they were receiving money through the NRA, arranged by Gates and Manafort (even after he left the campaign). This explains their friendly relationship with Butina, including a variety of emails between her and JD Gordon, and the presence of some Trump people at her inauguration party. It also explains the presence of Russian oligarchs at Trump's VIP-only inauguration party.

It's certain that the Russians were comfortable communicating with Roger Stone, asking him what he thought about some data they posted - which he then spent enough time looking through to reply, "[p]retty standard". It seems likely that there's more there between them.

And then there's Papadopoulos' whole back and forth with Russia and the possibility that he arranged something with them while he was in Greece.

And, similarly, Carter Page's mission to Moscow, where he met with a bunch of bigwigs.

And then there's Eric Prince's meeting on the Seychelles....

And Kushner's four meetings....
  #4878  
Old 08-09-2018, 08:18 PM
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Back when the Nunes memo was making rounds, I had noted that the timing seemed rather stupid. They really want to wait until the midterms before dumping on the FBI.

Those who are smarter than Nunes have now headed basic logic and are now striking:

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/40...sier-subpoenas
http://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/401...oj-about-trump
http://thehill.com/opinion/white-hou...-against-trump

The general idea is to point out that Bruce Ohr was acting as an intermediary between Steele & Simpson and the FBI, despite not being on the case.

Obviously, they are using a lot of scary words to make this sound like nefarious behavior, where Steele and Simpson would probably categorize it as, "We were trying to report our findings about possible crimes to the FBI and we knew someone who was friendly enough to help us do so."

Do we know when the DNC stopped paying Simpson (if ever)?

Last edited by Sage Rat; 08-09-2018 at 08:18 PM.
  #4879  
Old 08-09-2018, 09:11 PM
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"Really, Don Jr was a nobody. He may have fetched covfefe for some of the staff. Or so I was told. I never met him. He had no official role in my campaign."
He wasn't even my son for very long. A couple months, tops.
  #4880  
Old 08-09-2018, 11:31 PM
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Giuliani talks about a claim by Cohen that there was a planning meeting for the Veselnitskaya meeting:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...-tower-meeting

Obviously, it never happened.
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Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
I think I'm hearing Giuliani describe an *alleged* meeting. He describes in detail the purpose, attendees, and dates. Then he says it didn't happen. That's a curiously detailed description of a thing that didn't happen.
Best part of that article:
Quote:
"We checked with their lawyers — the ones we could check with — for four of the six," he continued. "That meeting never, ever happened. It didn’t happen. It’s a figment of his imagination or is lying."
So these people are still colluding to obstruct justice, perhaps, by coordinating their stories through Trump's legal team, eh?
  #4881  
Old 08-09-2018, 11:47 PM
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Back when the Nunes memo was making rounds, I had noted that the timing seemed rather stupid. They really want to wait until the midterms before dumping on the FBI.

Those who are smarter than Nunes have now headed basic logic and are now striking:

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/40...sier-subpoenas
http://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/401...oj-about-trump
http://thehill.com/opinion/white-hou...-against-trump

The general idea is to point out that Bruce Ohr was acting as an intermediary between Steele & Simpson and the FBI, despite not being on the case.

Obviously, they are using a lot of scary words to make this sound like nefarious behavior, where Steele and Simpson would probably categorize it as, "We were trying to report our findings about possible crimes to the FBI and we knew someone who was friendly enough to help us do so."

Do we know when the DNC stopped paying Simpson (if ever)?
I clicked on those links and one of the pages ad my "back" button active, so I hit it and was taken to a page that was an "Advertorial" about Ben Carson shilling a brain booster supplement. When did The Hill turn into an Alex Jones-esque supplement shill farm?
  #4882  
Old 08-09-2018, 11:58 PM
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Ben Carson shilling a brain booster supplement.
First of all, I did not originally read that word as "shilling".

Second of all, who the hell is being duped by Ben Carson, of all people, selling "brain boosters"?
  #4883  
Old 08-10-2018, 12:57 AM
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First of all, I did not originally read that word as "shilling".
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Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
Second of all, who the hell is being duped by Ben Carson, of all people, selling "brain boosters"?
Well that's why it seemed so Alex-Jones-y to me for The Hill to be running paid "advertorials" like this one: I thought they tried to be a respectable publication, not an excuse to hawk wares to gullibles.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 08-10-2018 at 12:58 AM.
  #4884  
Old 08-10-2018, 09:39 AM
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First of all, I did not originally read that word as "shilling".

Second of all, who the hell is being duped by Ben Carson, of all people, selling "brain boosters"?
Actually, that is one of the very few things that he *would* actually be qualified for.

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Well that's why it seemed so Alex-Jones-y to me for The Hill to be running paid "advertorials" like this one: I thought they tried to be a respectable publication, not an excuse to hawk wares to gullibles.
I've seen those ads, they just pick a random celebrity and attach a testimonial. I'd report the ad, it may have just snuck under their radar, or at least, you let them know that such advertising is not appreciated if it were intentional.
  #4885  
Old 08-10-2018, 03:21 PM
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https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...mic-war-771294

So now Trump sanctions Russia for Skripal and now the Putin-Trump "bro-mance" may be off. I wonder if this is where the Russians meddle on behalf of Democrats in ways that are obvious, giving Republicans a chance to cry foul and invalidate the election.
  #4886  
Old 08-10-2018, 03:37 PM
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They will anyway. Probably the same three to five million illegal voters, unless they lose by ten, then its twenty. Its their ass-in-the-hole card.
  #4887  
Old 08-10-2018, 03:53 PM
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https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...mic-war-771294

So now Trump sanctions Russia for Skripal and now the Putin-Trump "bro-mance" may be off. I wonder if this is where the Russians meddle on behalf of Democrats in ways that are obvious, giving Republicans a chance to cry foul and invalidate the election.
If we want to assume that Trump is completely running at Russia's command, then one could suppose that they're trying to play up the sanctions like they're a big deal (when they're actually not), before Congress can pass DETER, in the hopes that it will make them decide that it's redundant, and they'll forget it and move on to other things.

It is noteworthy that Trump's sanctions are, purportedly to punish Russia for poisoning that one dude in the UK. Given that Trump hasn't seemed to give a rat's ass about that, and seemed annoyed by those who did bring it up, it seems strange to hit them a few months, using that as the basis, after everyone else had moved on.

I also note that the new sanctions against Turkey are driving Erdogan to talk more with Putin. Ostensibly, we're sanctioning Turkey because they arrested someone that we don't think they should have. But, if I recall correctly, Turkey arrested one of Trump's hotel managers when he joined the office, and he didn't seem to be bothered at all, not has he seemed to care much about Turkey at all until this moment - nor really explained why this new offense is the one to push his buttons.

Given that the US has basically left the Middle East for Russia to take over, this would be the point in time for Russia to start solidifying its hold over everyone there.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 08-10-2018 at 03:55 PM.
  #4888  
Old 08-10-2018, 03:56 PM
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https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...mic-war-771294

So now Trump sanctions Russia for Skripal and now the Putin-Trump "bro-mance" may be off. I wonder if this is where the Russians meddle on behalf of Democrats in ways that are obvious, giving Republicans a chance to cry foul and invalidate the election.
I heard something about this today. Just so were clear here, Trump didn't impose the sanctions. There's a law from the early 1990's which required the State Department to make a declaration regarding the chemical attack within something like 60 days. They declared it to be an attack (although they blew past the deadline), and that automatically triggered sanctions. Russia has to take remedial actions or else additional sanctions are issued.

Notably, this is being done outside of Trump's control. And he is silent on all of it.
  #4889  
Old 08-10-2018, 04:06 PM
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More precisely, here is the law that has taken effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Law, 22 USC 5604
Whenever persuasive information becomes available to the executive branch indicating the substantial possibility that, on or after October 28, 1991, the government of a foreign country has made substantial preparation to use or has used chemical or biological weapons, the President shall, within 60 days after the receipt of such information by the executive branch, determine whether that government, on or after October 28, 1991, has used chemical or biological weapons in violation of international law or has used lethal chemical or biological weapons against its own nationals. Section 5605 of this title applies if the President determines that that government has so used chemical or biological weapons.
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Originally Posted by 22 USC 5605, referenced above
...If, at any time, the President makes a determination pursuant to section 5604(a)(1) of this title with respect to the government of a foreign country, the President shall forthwith impose the following sanctions:...
Note the use of the word "shall" (my emphasis)
  #4890  
Old 08-11-2018, 10:02 AM
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Here's a lengthy article in New York magazine that lays out much of the information supporting the case that Trump is, effectively, a Russian asset. The article doesn't present any new information, and it's not likely to shift the position of anyone in this thread. But it does lay out the case cleanly and pretty comprehensively. The main argument is that many in the media continue to treat the idea that Trump is a Putin patsy as outlandish, when it is, in fact, the most likely explanation for everything we can see. The article does go a little further than most in suggesting that Trump was drawn into the orbit of Russian intelligence as far back as 1987. I think the case for that is one of the weaker pieces of the article, but given everything that's happened the past few years, I would not be surprised at all if it turns out to be true.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...mpression=true
A new book due out on 8/14 also alleges that Trump was "likely" compromised in 1987. The book, by controversial writer Craig Unger, digs into Trump's real estate deals with Russians going back to the 70s. It quotes a guy who was a senior KGB official in 1987 as saying that it was standard practice for the KGB to try to acquire kompromat on visiting Western businessmen, most often through honey traps. To be clear, the KGB guy offers no evidence that Trump was compromised during his 1987 visit. He only says it was very likely.

Craig Unger is best known for House of Bush, House of Sayd, which I didn't read, but I gather was criticized for being gossipy and indulging in conspiracy theories. From the article, this new book also seems to rely on a fair amount of hearsay and inference. But, add it to the growing number of allegations that Trump has been up to his eyeballs in Russians for three or more decades.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ok-claims.html
  #4891  
Old 08-16-2018, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Defensive Indifference View Post
A new book due out on 8/14 also alleges that Trump was "likely" compromised in 1987. The book, by controversial writer Craig Unger, digs into Trump's real estate deals with Russians going back to the 70s. It quotes a guy who was a senior KGB official in 1987 as saying that it was standard practice for the KGB to try to acquire kompromat on visiting Western businessmen, most often through honey traps. To be clear, the KGB guy offers no evidence that Trump was compromised during his 1987 visit. He only says it was very likely.



Craig Unger is best known for House of Bush, House of Sayd, which I didn't read, but I gather was criticized for being gossipy and indulging in conspiracy theories. From the article, this new book also seems to rely on a fair amount of hearsay and inference. But, add it to the growing number of allegations that Trump has been up to his eyeballs in Russians for three or more decades.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ok-claims.html


I’m no fan of Trump, but...

Rumor mongers and conspiracy theorists are bad, but what can you say for a rumor mongering conspiracy theorist who is late to the party?
  #4892  
Old Yesterday, 02:33 PM
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Looks like (I assume) someone has made credible threats against Papadopoulos and his wife:

http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...l-with-mueller

I assume that they already have his grand jury testimony in the bag and that he, effectively, can't change it now but I'm not sure how that actually plays out in a court if he changes his testimony on the stand and they have to compare his statements to the previous ones. Are juries amenable to the idea that people are being threatened by, for example, Russian agents?
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