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  #51  
Old 07-07-2019, 04:55 PM
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Okay, my question: how come Peter Parker refers to AT-ATs in The Empire Strikes Back as "those walking thingies" (paraphrasing) when he has a rather LARGE TIE Bomber or TIE Advanced (Vader's TIE in SWE4) sitting on his shelf in his bedroom at home?
Maybe to make sure the other person knew what he was talking about.
  #52  
Old 07-07-2019, 05:58 PM
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Okay, my question: how come Peter Parker refers to AT-ATs in The Empire Strikes Back as "those walking thingies" (paraphrasing) when he has a rather LARGE TIE Bomber or TIE Advanced (Vader's TIE in SWE4) sitting on his shelf in his bedroom at home?
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Maybe to make sure the other person knew what he was talking about.
Or brain fart - he was a bit busy at the moment, after all, and under a wee bit of stress. Just couldn't bring the name to his tongue at that moment.
  #53  
Old 07-07-2019, 07:30 PM
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He was younger than them - the MCU wiki puts Brad's birth in 2007, whereas Peter, MJ, Ned, Flash and Betty were born in 2001. (Which means I'd been making a wrong assumption about the timeline of the movies...apparently Infinity War took place in 2018, and Endgame and Far From Home in 2023... I'd thought the latter two were set in 2019, and the earlier ones all jammed between 2011 and 2014...)
The timeline in the MCU is all messed up after Avengers. Avengers took place in 2012 but Spider-Man Homecoming says it takes place eight years later which would put it in 2020.

ETA: I think making Peter a Star Wars fan is a retcon. The joke in Civil War is to him Empire is an old movie he hardly knows (which is often the case for kids his age).

Last edited by Quimby; 07-07-2019 at 07:33 PM.
  #54  
Old 07-07-2019, 07:45 PM
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Happy refers to a surfboard in his coded call to "Nick" - reference to the Silver Surfer?

Peter's suitcase is monogrammed - apparently it belonged to Uncle Ben.

Betty and Ned are a riot!
  #55  
Old 07-08-2019, 12:10 AM
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Totally called the elementals being a scam in an earlier thread. See, I know Mysterio.

Liked it more than I expected. The MCU has gotten much better with its villains (id say from 2017 onwards they've been fairly strong). Shame he's dead so won't be teaming up with the sinister 6 anytime soon.
They can easily bring Mysterio back - that bald guy got away with Beck's hologram software. He can be the new Mysterio - and they can still get Jake Gyllenhaal in to play him for the illusionary bits.
  #56  
Old 07-08-2019, 02:36 AM
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That was a fun movie! At various points I thought something was up, but Jake Gyllenhall really lulled me. The Spiderman-stuck-in-the-illusion scene in the middle was something a bit different, in a good way.
  #57  
Old 07-08-2019, 11:51 AM
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I was blown away by this movie. Even though I know that Mysterio in the comics is a villain, Jake Gyllenhaal actually had me believing he would be different in the MCU. The scene where Mysterio assaults Spider-Man with the illusions in Berlin (or is that "Berlin"?) was like the boat tunnel scene from Willy Wonka on steroids. And that mid-credits scene...holy cow, x2.

I have high expectations for MCU movies in general, but this one managed to exceed them.

I eagerly await the Night Monkey movie.
  #58  
Old 07-08-2019, 03:52 PM
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ETA: I think making Peter a Star Wars fan is a retcon. The joke in Civil War is to him Empire is an old movie he hardly knows (which is often the case for kids his age).
It is also possible that, prior to Germany, he only had seen it once but, on recommendation from some of the other heroes, he decided to re-watch the franchise, and subsequently got hooked.
  #59  
Old 07-08-2019, 04:16 PM
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I eagerly await the Night Monkey movie.
I was slightly disappointed to see Tom Holland's credit was listed as only Peter Parker/Spider-Man, with no mention of the Night Monkey
  #60  
Old 07-08-2019, 04:48 PM
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It is also possible that, prior to Germany, he only had seen it once but, on recommendation from some of the other heroes, he decided to re-watch the franchise, and subsequently got hooked.
Weren't he and Ned building a Lego Death Star in Homecoming?
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  #61  
Old 07-08-2019, 05:37 PM
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Weren't he and Ned building a Lego Death Star in Homecoming?
Didn't Homecoming take place chronologically after Civil War? I'm not sure what part of my fanwank is inconsistent with MCU canon?
  #62  
Old 07-08-2019, 06:53 PM
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Didn't Homecoming take place chronologically after Civil War? I'm not sure what part of my fanwank is inconsistent with MCU canon?
Might have been - I don't remember the details of what happened when and to whom. Just adding a data point about Peter Parker and Star Wars.
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  #63  
Old 07-08-2019, 06:56 PM
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Didn't Homecoming take place chronologically after Civil War? I'm not sure what part of my fanwank is inconsistent with MCU canon?
Definitely after - in Homecoming Peter talks to Ned about having met Cap - and the gym teacher gets questions about why the kids are watching a video by Cap, a wanted man.

Last edited by Andy L; 07-08-2019 at 06:56 PM.
  #64  
Old 07-08-2019, 07:41 PM
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It is also possible that, prior to Germany, he only had seen it once but, on recommendation from some of the other heroes, he decided to re-watch the franchise, and subsequently got hooked.
Other possibilities:

He's not really that into Star Wars, but Ned is, and Pete's picked some stuff up by osmosis. The Lego Death Star was actually Ned's.

He is really into Star Wars, but doesn't want his cool new superhero friends to think he's a nerd, so he couches it like it's some old thing he doesn't really care about.

The events in Civil War happened prior to the release (in the MCU) of The Force Awakens, and Peter didn't become a SW fan until he saw the new ones.
  #65  
Old 07-08-2019, 08:30 PM
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They can easily bring Mysterio back - that bald guy got away with Beck's hologram software. He can be the new Mysterio - and they can still get Jake Gyllenhaal in to play him for the illusionary bits.

That Bald Guy was played by Peter Billingsley, most know for Ralphie, who most certainly did NOT shoot his eye out with his Red Ryder BB gun on Christmas morning. I knew he looked familiar but I didn't think anything about it at the time.

And as far as everyone knowing Brad... Do we know it was JUST a high school? Maybe it's k-12 or 4-12. Or he's someone's younger brother.

My kid hasn't seen the Garfield or McGuire Spiderman movies so we had a VERY Who's on First moment when JJJ popped up.

That guy was in the other movies. I love him!

Who?

That guy who was just yelling. He's one of the M&Ms and was on a lot of Law&Orders.

Which guy?

That guy who was just on.

But who is he?

He was in the other movies. He was Peter's boss.

Which guy?

THAT GUY WHO WAS JUST YELLING.

But who is he?

He is an actor. He was in that trailer with T'Challa before the movie. He was in the other Spiderman movies as Peter's boss.

Who?


I swear I live half my life like Dr Strange. "Dormamu, I've come to bargain." Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
  #66  
Old 07-09-2019, 06:52 PM
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I enjoyed the movie a lot. I was also not surprised as I knew Mysterio as a bad guy but did wonder if they were going to change it. Until he wanted Edith, then I knew for sure he was a bad guy.

I don't prefer teen angst type stuff but knew to expect it with Spiderman and that mostly worked for me. I will see how it goes on second viewing. (Eventually.)

I'm also curious when I next rewatch Homecoming if it will make the scenes with Tony more poignant, knowing now what he was thinking about Peter.

Great discussion! Thanks!
  #67  
Old 07-09-2019, 08:33 PM
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I'm also curious when I next rewatch Homecoming if it will make the scenes with Tony more poignant, knowing now what he was thinking about Peter.
Do you mean Endgame?
  #68  
Old 07-09-2019, 11:36 PM
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Just got home (held out 'til $5 Movie Night) and I loved it.

I rewatched Avengers:Endust to get ready (unnecessary, but it was nice to be immersed in that world). I went into Spider-Man FFS wondering if it's the first film of the MCU Phase 4, or (as Kevin Feige recently called it) the last film of the MCU Phase 3, but guess what? I don't care, I'd say "Naaah, doesn't matter, it's a Spider-Man movie. And a lot of fun."

I've been a Spidey fan since buying Issue #6 at Herbst's Drug Store. Loved the first Tobey McGuire movie... my kid sneered "Spider-Man? More like the Peter Parker movie!" THAT'S why I loved it, the "ordinary teenager tries to cope" aspect.

Andrew Garfield didn't seem to be a hapless teen, and frankly I never cared about his character.

But Tom Holland? Hapless Teen To The Max! I sort of feel like the original Steve Ditko character is back.
  #69  
Old 07-10-2019, 01:56 PM
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You can't just ghost nick fury!
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:26 PM
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Does Pepper Potts know that Happy's password is password? Did Tony know? I strongly suspect that when Natasha was undercover there, she knew it.

When Ned told Betty that the hero in the black suit was "Night Monkey", for a split second I thought he was going to say "Nightcrawler", which would have been a nod to the X-Men.

The other members of Beck's team should show up on Marvel's Agents of Shield. They've got tech know-how.
  #71  
Old 07-10-2019, 05:07 PM
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I think Agents of Shield has stopped pretending it's in the MCU at this point.
  #72  
Old 07-11-2019, 01:17 PM
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Does Pepper Potts know that Happy's password is password? Did Tony know? I strongly suspect that when Natasha was undercover there, she knew it.
It's of course a bad choice - but on the other hand, if you were hacking Stark Enterprises head of security, would you even bother with a dictionary attack, much less trying "password"? Note that it took 3 or 4 tries to communicate to Peter that his password was actually "password". And of course, it is easy to remember.
  #73  
Old 07-11-2019, 01:32 PM
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I loved it. Near the top tier of MCU movies, IMO. Gyllenhal was teriffic, as were just about all of the rest of the cast. The one thing I was complaining about through the movie -- Nick Fury really couldn't be this gullible, could he? -- was addressed in the post-credits scenes. JK Simmons as Jameson was a really nice surprise!
  #74  
Old 07-12-2019, 03:28 AM
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I loved that they gave Mysterio a Team. With the scale of the illiusions it really would make no sense that he can coordinate all that stuff. My absolute favourites are a costume Lady and a script guy! That man knows that heroic speeches don't just happen (except for Cap)
I also enjoyed the uber-trippy Berlin fight, even though it made really no sense that he didn't just shoot Spidey. But hey, he is a Showman at heart, so why not go for the Cartoon "hit by a Train" death?
The Night Monkey Running joke was awesome, especially him popping up all over the News.
I agree that they really, really need to stop killing their villains. I thought they learned their lesson with the Vulture. Then again, if one villain is capable of faking his death, it's Mysterio.
Jake Gyllenhall put in a wonderful Performance - I was really sad that I knew all that great chemistry would be a fake in the end. And there is no question that he pulled off the glasses way better than Peter
  #75  
Old 07-12-2019, 04:08 AM
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I loved it. Near the top tier of MCU movies, IMO. Gyllenhal was teriffic, as were just about all of the rest of the cast. The one thing I was complaining about through the movie -- Nick Fury really couldn't be this gullible, could he? -- was addressed in the post-credits scenes. JK Simmons as Jameson was a really nice surprise!
I thought there was something off about Samuel L. Jackson's performance as Nick Fury. He's always been a dick, but he's not that kind of dick. The post-credit scene explained all.
  #76  
Old 07-12-2019, 07:41 AM
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That Bald Guy was played by Peter Billingsley, most know for Ralphie, who most certainly did NOT shoot his eye out with his Red Ryder BB gun on Christmas morning. I knew he looked familiar but I didn't think anything about it at the time.
I had no idea. I didn’t recognize him. He was one of the producers of Iron Man so he’s one of the fathers of the MCU. In Iron Man he had a cameo as the same character he plays in Far From Home.

He’s good buddies and business partners with Favreau and Vince Vaughn and is involved off-screen in many of their projects.
  #77  
Old 07-14-2019, 02:43 AM
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The wife and I saw it today. Liked it. Waiting for the next one. A little poignant that this is the first Marvel film without a Stan Lee cameo. (Or was that the last Avengers movie?)

I can't believe the shlubs who race out of the theater as soon as the credits start. The wife and I are end-credit junkies and always stay until the very, very end of any film we see, no matter what. And while I know not everyone is like that ... come on, this is a Marvel film! You ought to know there's going to be some good extra scenes coming.
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  #78  
Old 07-14-2019, 08:17 AM
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The wife and I saw it today. Liked it. Waiting for the next one. A little poignant that this is the first Marvel film without a Stan Lee cameo. (Or was that the last Avengers movie?)
There was a cameo during Endgame.
  #79  
Old 07-14-2019, 03:21 PM
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8) There is a mid-credits scene, and and end-credits scene, and you should stay for both. The first will have a major impact on any Spider-Man stories going forward, and the second will have a major impact on the MCU in general.
Is it clear that it will, though? Seems like they could just write it off as a one-off joke. So Fury was off-world with the Skrulls at some point, and had a shape-shifter standing in; there need not be any bigger deal to it. Or am I missing the importance of that scene?
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Old 07-14-2019, 03:27 PM
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Is it clear that it will, though? Seems like they could just write it off as a one-off joke. So Fury was off-world with the Skrulls at some point, and had a shape-shifter standing in; there need not be any bigger deal to it. Or am I missing the importance of that scene?
I’m guessing It could mean that the next chapter of the MCU will revolve around the Kree/Skrull War or one of the other major Skrull plot lines that happened after I stopped reading comic books.
  #81  
Old 07-14-2019, 04:56 PM
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I thought it was a joke. There was no point to all that other than to give Fury a vacation, which is what he was doing when they called him.
  #82  
Old 07-15-2019, 01:14 AM
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It just occurred to me why the Skrull ship came back, maybe. I think when Danvers got Fury's page at the end of Avenger: Infinity War, she prevailed on the Skrull she was escorting to give her a lift back. It's a long way, probably, from where she was to Earth. She might be able to make the trip by herself, but it'd be a lot more feasible on a ship - not too many rest stops in spaace!
Once there, it'd be natural for Talos and such to say hello to Fury, and do a favour for him - namely, cover for him for a while while he takes a vacation.
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  #83  
Old 07-15-2019, 05:11 AM
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I thought it was a joke. There was no point to all that other than to give Fury a vacation, which is what he was doing when they called him.
I think the point was that Fury is THE spy, and there's no way Mysterio's whole scheme would have gotten past him.
  #84  
Old 07-15-2019, 05:13 PM
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Here's a point I saw online that I wish I thought of myself because I think I agree with it: EDITH seems an awful lot like the system Hydra-SHIELD tried to deploy in the Winter Soldier that Cap fought so hard to stop.
  #85  
Old 07-15-2019, 05:49 PM
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I thought it was a joke. There was no point to all that other than to give Fury a vacation, which is what he was doing when they called him.
If it was just a joke about Fury on a vacation, they'd have just put him on a beach. Not a holo-beach on a previously undisclosed space station crewed by aliens.

That scene is a huge nod to what's coming up in the next phase.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:12 PM
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Agreed, Fury is obviously on a mission of some kind. The holo-beach was basically just him hanging out in the breakroom.
  #87  
Old 07-16-2019, 01:10 AM
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Here's a point I saw online that I wish I thought of myself because I think I agree with it: EDITH seems an awful lot like the system Hydra-SHIELD tried to deploy in the Winter Soldier that Cap fought so hard to stop.
In that it's an instantly deployable strike system, yes. But they already have that, with varying degrees of effectiveness (from sending in a black ops team to ordering a missile strike). The point of Hydra's system was Zola's algorithm to predict and prevent future 'threats'.

But yes, the idea of having a massive global strike capacity, coupled with near-instant access to virtually every kind of data, and having it concentrated in the hands of a single person---and a 16 year old, at that---is certainly more troubling than the film lets on.
  #88  
Old 07-16-2019, 01:52 AM
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Here's a point I saw online that I wish I thought of myself because I think I agree with it: EDITH seems an awful lot like the system Hydra-SHIELD tried to deploy in the Winter Soldier that Cap fought so hard to stop.
LIke HMHW said, it's not quite the same, but I think we can all agree Cap would not have approved of it. A space-based system to send an Iron Man suit anywhere, that's fine. Hundreds of kill-drones tied to an A.I., not so much.

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  #89  
Old 07-16-2019, 11:16 AM
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I liked it. Another solid hit for the MCU.

I've never been a Spider-Man reader. So I don't know the stories and didn't know who Mysterio was. But I figured out that he was going to turn heel during the movie because he was just being too perfect for it to be real.

I felt they glossed over the aftereffects of the Blip. They acknowledged it had happened but beyond that you wouldn't have noticed it. The world seemed to be up and running exactly like it had been before. It was like setting a movie in Europe in late 1945 and not showing any damage from the war. It would have been more realistic if they had been constant details about the recovery in the background. That said, I understand it's a movie and that wasn't the tone they were going for.

On a similar note of whining about movie realities, why were Mysterio and Spider-Man the only heroes we saw? This is another example of the MCU getting too big to work for individual character movies. Okay, we name checked Iron Man and Thor and Dr Strange and Captain Marvel not being available. But where was War Machine and Black Panther and Hulk and Hawkeye and Scarlet Witch and the new Captain America and Bucky Barnes and Wong and Ant Man and Wasp and Valkyrie?

I liked the JK Simmons cameo even though I haven't seen the earlier Spider-Man movies.

I wasn't happy with the Skrull reveal. I understand that they're setting up a future movie but I feel they did it at the expense of the characters. If Nick Fury and Maria Hill can be replaced so easily by lookalikes then they're not really that vital as individuals; apparently anyone can step in and do what they do.

Marisa Tomei is hot.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:59 PM
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On a similar note of whining about movie realities, why were Mysterio and Spider-Man the only heroes we saw? This is another example of the MCU getting too big to work for individual character movies. Okay, we name checked Iron Man and Thor and Dr Strange and Captain Marvel not being available. But where was War Machine and Black Panther and Hulk and Hawkeye and Scarlet Witch and the new Captain America and Bucky Barnes and Wong and Ant Man and Wasp and Valkyrie?
My head canon is that since it wasn't REALLY Fury, Thalos could only get a hold of Parker easily. Plus since he also wasn't REALLY Fury, he didn't quite understand the danger they were in to call anyone but Spidey.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:09 PM
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The whinging about where was (other hero) has been going on since the first team-up in the source material 50+ years ago. If one absolutely needs an excuse, just say to oneself that the individuals were handling their own stories and we're indisposed. But if it bothers one too much, then maybe one should decline shared universe movies.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:35 PM
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On a similar note of whining about movie realities, why were Mysterio and Spider-Man the only heroes we saw? This is another example of the MCU getting too big to work for individual character movies. Okay, we name checked Iron Man and Thor and Dr Strange and Captain Marvel not being available. But where was War Machine and Black Panther and Hulk and Hawkeye and Scarlet Witch and the new Captain America and Bucky Barnes and Wong and Ant Man and Wasp and Valkyrie?
None of those people are at Fury's beck and call. Several of them are fugitives in hiding (Wanda and Bucky and possibly War Machine after the events of infinity war). The wizards made it clear they only deal with wizard stuff, Falcon and Hawkeye are very very low powered and no use against any real threat. You can't just kidnap the king of Wakanda and send him off on missions. And we have no idea how hurt Hulk was after using the gauntlet, wasn't his arm on a sling during the last scene of Endgame? Wanda is really the only one of that group that's a big enough heavy hitter to actually take on threats of the level the elementals were supposed to be, and after what they did to her at the end of Civil War she'd probably tell them to fuck off.

Last edited by DigitalC; 07-16-2019 at 08:36 PM.
  #93  
Old 07-17-2019, 12:19 AM
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Just saw it tonight.

I enjoyed it, and have a couple of thoughts:

1. When Peter was asking Fury where everyone was and he said “Captain Marvel” I was wondering why Fury said something to the effect of “don’t mention her name to me”. It seemed out of place, but not if he was a Skrull!

2. When they got home I noticed that a driver was there to pick up Flash. And he asked why father (or he might have said mother) wasn’t there and they were too busy. I think Flash or his dad will be the Green Goblin in the next Spider-Man movie.

MtM
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  #94  
Old 07-17-2019, 12:42 AM
Little Nemo is online now
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Originally Posted by Fair Rarity View Post
My head canon is that since it wasn't REALLY Fury, Thalos could only get a hold of Parker easily. Plus since he also wasn't REALLY Fury, he didn't quite understand the danger they were in to call anyone but Spidey.
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Originally Posted by D_Odds View Post
The whinging about where was (other hero) has been going on since the first team-up in the source material 50+ years ago. If one absolutely needs an excuse, just say to oneself that the individuals were handling their own stories and we're indisposed. But if it bothers one too much, then maybe one should decline shared universe movies.
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Originally Posted by DigitalC View Post
None of those people are at Fury's beck and call. Several of them are fugitives in hiding (Wanda and Bucky and possibly War Machine after the events of infinity war). The wizards made it clear they only deal with wizard stuff, Falcon and Hawkeye are very very low powered and no use against any real threat. You can't just kidnap the king of Wakanda and send him off on missions. And we have no idea how hurt Hulk was after using the gauntlet, wasn't his arm on a sling during the last scene of Endgame? Wanda is really the only one of that group that's a big enough heavy hitter to actually take on threats of the level the elementals were supposed to be, and after what they did to her at the end of Civil War she'd probably tell them to fuck off.
This kind of logic works if you're fighting the Vulture or the Green Goblin or Doctor Octopus. Those are the kinds of villains where you can tell Spider-Man to sink or swim. But this was a threat that we were explicitly told was about to destroy the entire planet.

The studio needs to realize it's telling two levels of stories. When it's telling stories about single characters it needs to restrict itself to villains who are acceptable level threats. They need to save the world threatening villains like Thanos and Dormammu and these supposed elementals for the team-up movie where they throw every hero at them.
  #95  
Old 07-17-2019, 12:46 AM
Little Nemo is online now
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Originally Posted by McDeath_the_Mad View Post
When they got home I noticed that a driver was there to pick up Flash. And he asked why father (or he might have said mother) wasn’t there and they were too busy. I think Flash or his dad will be the Green Goblin in the next Spider-Man movie.
There was another villain foreshadowed in the movie. Dmitri, the SHIELD agent who was sent to escort the tour group, is apparently the Chameleon.
  #96  
Old 07-22-2019, 12:20 PM
Steve MB is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fair Rarity View Post
My head canon is that since it wasn't REALLY Fury, Thalos could only get a hold of Parker easily. Plus since he also wasn't REALLY Fury, he didn't quite understand the danger they were in to call anyone but Spidey.
The fact that it wasn't really Fury also made it easier for Mysterio to pull off his scam -- the real Nick Fury might have ID'd him as a disgruntled former Stark employee and started pulling the threads apart from there.
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  #97  
Old 07-22-2019, 01:09 PM
D_Odds is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
This kind of logic works if you're fighting the Vulture or the Green Goblin or Doctor Octopus. Those are the kinds of villains where you can tell Spider-Man to sink or swim. But this was a threat that we were explicitly told was about to destroy the entire planet.

The studio needs to realize it's telling two levels of stories. When it's telling stories about single characters it needs to restrict itself to villains who are acceptable level threats. They need to save the world threatening villains like Thanos and Dormammu and these supposed elementals for the team-up movie where they throw every hero at them.
I disagree. I don't even have to fanwank it away. As a lifelong comic book reader, we (other comic book readers) have had this conversation innumerous times, but at the end of the day, one simply moves on, one stops reading comic books, or one becomes a one-note curmudgeon always ehinging about the same issue. Now that comic books are coming to life on the big screen, same principle. I don't want a solo movie to be hamstrung simply because the bigger universe has characters who might make the plot laughably easy.
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