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  #201  
Old 01-15-2019, 01:47 PM
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I thought for sure they'd have Alara's dad come out, see the crushed bottle, realize no one else had been there but the Orville's shuttle, and mutter, "Stupid human litterbugs."
Yeah...this was a missed opportunity.
  #202  
Old 01-15-2019, 02:41 PM
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Was it dangerous for Daddy to climb down because of high gravity? I thought that in addition to being very strong to cope with it, they would have evolved some physical protection.
  #203  
Old 01-15-2019, 02:50 PM
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Was it dangerous for Daddy to climb down because of high gravity? I thought that in addition to being very strong to cope with it, they would have evolved some physical protection.
It sure could have been clearer what the problem was. Was it the higher gravity, or just the fact that he was old and injured? I assume their planet has the same problems with getting weaker with age, just higher up on the scale, as it were.

While Alara's planet makes no sense (everyone there should be two feet tall and five feet wide, the air pressure at the surface would be crushing), these are nitpicks within normal parameters. From a science, or even a storytelling perspective, The Orville is no worse than TNG. I like the show. I am also liking the "less bathroom humor"style this year.

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  #204  
Old 01-15-2019, 02:52 PM
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It sure could have been clearer what the problem was. Was it the higher gravity, or just the fact that he was old and injured? I assume their planet has the same problems with getting weaker with age, just higher up on the scale, as it were.
...
I think that fact he could only use the one hand was the big factor.
  #205  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:03 PM
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While Alara's planet makes no sense (everyone there should be two feet tall and five feet wide, the air pressure at the surface would be crushing
While it's nice fan-service to cast Robert Picardo, I think the episode might have been better served if it turned out Alara was one of the tallest members of her species, like freakishly tall.

That said, I'm wondering how much G-force would be needed to spontaneously crush the tibia and fibula of a healthy human male who was lying on the ground. I could picture Mercer suffering a significant leg injury if he was standing and possibly carrying a heavy weight when the gravity hit him, but he was in the lowest possible stress position and his bones still crunched. There are human test pilots who have pulled 9g maneuvers and not suffered bone breaks so the gravity on this planet must be absurdly implausibly high.
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  #206  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:11 PM
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I think that fact he could only use the one hand was the big factor.
I kinda got the impression this species thought itself (or at least Alara's father thought his family) had evolved beyond the need for anything resembling rambunctious physical activity, let alone violence, so his daughter being in the military would strike him as especially jarring, he himself would be hesitant to engage in something as demanding as climbing over a railing and jumping to the ground, and he would be utterly psychologically helpless when confronted with sadistic home invaders.
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  #207  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:12 PM
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I think that fact he could only use the one hand was the big factor.
Mama or Sis could have gone.

It was just so Alara could say, "You can do this!"
  #208  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:23 PM
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Mama or Sis could have gone.

It was just so Alara could say, "You can do this!"
True, why didnt Sis go?
  #209  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:27 PM
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I kinda got the impression this species thought itself (or at least Alara's father thought his family) had evolved beyond the need for anything resembling rambunctious physical activity, let alone violence, so his daughter being in the military would strike him as especially jarring, he himself would be hesitant to engage in something as demanding as climbing over a railing and jumping to the ground, and he would be utterly psychologically helpless when confronted with sadistic home invaders.
Now THAT would make an interesting species. While they they tell themselves (and anyone who will listen) that they are more advanced than the mere humans and their military ways, the fact is, on their home planet they are still vulnerable. They are so at risk from high falls (even with their adaptations), that they've developed a culture that is risk-averse in all things. So Alara isn't just "dumber", she's like a Niven puppeteer - if she's willing to take risks that could get her hurt, then she's obviously mentally unsound.

What we view as Alara's strengths, her own people consider mental illness. But her "illness" is what saved her family. She was willing to do what was necessary, and the average person on her planet wouldn't. Fortunately for them, the criminal element is ALSO risk averse. It's just Phlox's passion over his dead son overrode his caution.

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  #210  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:30 PM
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True, why didnt Sis go?
You're thinking of Deep Space Nine.

  #211  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:32 PM
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You're thinking of Deep Space Nine.


  #212  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:39 PM
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"Sis go" = Sisko
  #213  
Old 01-15-2019, 03:42 PM
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"Sis go" = Sisko
The only good pun is a bad pun.
  #214  
Old 01-15-2019, 04:28 PM
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They are so at risk from high falls (even with their adaptations), that they've developed a culture that is risk-averse in all things.
I like that.
  #215  
Old 01-15-2019, 04:44 PM
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Now THAT would make an interesting species. While they they tell themselves (and anyone who will listen) that they are more advanced than the mere humans and their military ways, the fact is, on their home planet they are still vulnerable. They are so at risk from high falls (even with their adaptations), that they've developed a culture that is risk-averse in all things. So Alara isn't just "dumber", she's like a Niven puppeteer - if she's willing to take risks that could get her hurt, then she's obviously mentally unsound.

What we view as Alara's strengths, her own people consider mental illness. But her "illness" is what saved her family. She was willing to do what was necessary, and the average person on her planet wouldn't. Fortunately for them, the criminal element is ALSO risk averse. It's just Phlox's passion over his dead son overrode his caution.
Well, related to my earlier comment that it might have been interesting if Alara had well-above-average height for her species, I picture that species having some semi-dogmatic bias against the tall, i.e. extra height means reduced blood flow to the brain, or some such nonsense. Alara need not be dumb or slow by the standards of her species (merely average), but she has faced the unreasonable bias her whole life, another factor in driving her off-planet where she finds she's considered highly intelligent and even petite by human standards, and discovers she's highly dangerous (as opposed to constantly endangered) and nearly invulnerable, sparking some long-repressed sense of aggression.

Of course, if the planet did have a dwarf-like population, I can picture Malloy making some disparaging or mocking comment, prompting:

Mercer: You realize there are toddlers here that could rip you in half like toilet paper, right?

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  #216  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:04 AM
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Nothing Left on Earth Excepting Fishes was outstanding.
  #217  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:17 AM
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Are you kidding? The Greatest Hits of Billy Joel? We're all DOOOOOOOOOMED!
  #218  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:57 AM
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Yeah that was a good one. Nice Star Trek style theme and I really liked finishing with that song. Most amusing.

SPOILER:
Eta: I did see the twist coming as soon as the Krill made an appearance but still fun.

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  #219  
Old 01-18-2019, 09:04 AM
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A spoiler.










SPOILER:
A reviewer pointed out that Mercer puts his jacket on her shoulders when she is cold, and uses it later to protect her from sunlight.
  #220  
Old 01-18-2019, 10:00 AM
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Yeah that was a good one. Nice Star Trek style theme and I really liked finishing with that song. Most amusing.

SPOILER:
Eta: I did see the twist coming as soon as the Krill made an appearance but still fun.
Yes and yes. I was a bit disappointed that the twist was so obvious, but still mostly a solid, competent episode.

Per movie night:

"What was the one with the taxi driver?"

"Er, Taxi Driver?"

"Yeah, what was the name of that one?"
  #221  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:06 AM
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Also, that she thought the Nazis were the heroes of Indiana Jones.
  #222  
Old 01-18-2019, 01:39 PM
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I'm just giddy that, here and on reddit, people who noticed it was the same actress, said, "Wait, she's a Krill spy," and then it happened. That's the biggest, most obvious lampshade/Checkov's gun ever.
  #223  
Old 01-18-2019, 01:44 PM
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Interesting that they are now playing off Star Trek episodes from less than a year ago.



Also, it is getting harder to make props seem futuristic. That thing with the best of Billy Joel? A current MicroSD card can hold every recorded version of every Bill Joel song ever made in uncompressed WAV format in even less space than that.

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  #224  
Old 01-18-2019, 01:48 PM
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Aren't they riffing on their own show from season one? The one that happened before the Star Trek show? Although my memory might be a little fuzzy on the timelines here.
  #225  
Old 01-18-2019, 01:51 PM
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A current MicroSD card can hold every recorded version of every Bill Joel song ever made in uncompressed WAV format in even less space than that.
Valid. But how small should it be? It almost gets lost in her glove. Are we gonna do the Zoolander/Amy Wong swallowed her phone gag? Have him instead transfer the password to his online resource, the way we do today? (Yeah, that's my NetFlix code, just watch whatever you want.) In fact, it probably would have been better to hand her a 5 cm glowing crystal sphere that was an autonomous sound system. I don't think she's gonna rush to her quarters, and plug in a random bit of alien technology ... she's not Bortus, after all.
  #226  
Old 01-19-2019, 10:00 AM
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If you're part of an organization that's gone to the trouble to set up "decoy" codes.... don't tell the enemy about them, please. That's Decoy 101 right there.
  #227  
Old 01-19-2019, 11:51 AM
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If you're part of an organization that's gone to the trouble to set up "decoy" codes.... don't tell the enemy about them, please. That's Decoy 101 right there.
He does that on purpose. He's decided that he can "trust" her, and wants to show that she can "trust" him. Partly, that's because he's still all "in love" with her, the "her" he thinks she really is inside. But it's also partly, I think, to make sure she realizes she really hadn't "won", yet, at the point the other aliens crashed the party.
  #228  
Old 01-19-2019, 12:41 PM
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Well I loved this episode. Even with the romance BS, it was relevant at least. I don't care if it was an idea taken from another show. I don't watch those shows anyway.
  #229  
Old 01-19-2019, 01:07 PM
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Well I loved this episode. Even with the romance BS, it was relevant at least. I don't care if it was an idea taken from another show. I don't watch those shows anyway.
What other show was it taken from?
  #230  
Old 01-19-2019, 01:34 PM
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If you're part of an organization that's gone to the trouble to set up "decoy" codes.... don't tell the enemy about them, please. That's Decoy 101 right there.
Yes but the truth was really a lie. If they run the code then a Billy Joel song uploads into the enemy ship with an embedded virus and the ship explodes into a cosmic image of Jeff Goldblum.

That's Decoy 102. Reuse an old sci fi plot until something explodes.

Last edited by Magiver; 01-19-2019 at 01:34 PM.
  #231  
Old 01-19-2019, 01:56 PM
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Like putting too much air in a balloon!
  #232  
Old 01-19-2019, 01:59 PM
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I have to say I liked the Patrick Warburton character. They need to do an episode where he paints himself for a sporting event and is mistaken for the devil by another species.
  #233  
Old 01-19-2019, 04:03 PM
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I have a feeling we won't see much more of Patrick Warburton because Kelly said the new security chief "will be here next week". I found that kind of cool because it really will be next week, not TV time next week.

I didn't see the twist coming. Sometimes it pays to be unobservant. I loved it! Great episode all around.
  #234  
Old 01-19-2019, 04:39 PM
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He does that on purpose. He's decided that he can "trust" her, and wants to show that she can "trust" him. Partly, that's because he's still all "in love" with her, the "her" he thinks she really is inside. But it's also partly, I think, to make sure she realizes she really hadn't "won", yet, at the point the other aliens crashed the party.
yeah - except that it also means that he didn't give up the codes for the girl he loved - I know my wife would have smacked the hell out of me for bluffing while she's being tortured.

He should have continued the ruse - and let her find out later that he's not a complete imbecile - it would have also told the Krill that human's aren't so easily manipulated.

Last edited by simster; 01-19-2019 at 04:43 PM.
  #235  
Old 01-19-2019, 05:16 PM
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yeah - except that it also means that he didn't give up the codes for the girl he loved - I know my wife would have smacked the hell out of me for bluffing while she's being tortured..
Well, my first thought was "I hope he didnt actually just betray his galaxy wide alliance for the girl he's been dating 2 weeks"
  #236  
Old 01-19-2019, 06:03 PM
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Nothing Left on Earth Excepting Fishes was outstanding.
Agreed.

SPOILER:
The Krill are fascinating and I'm intrigued by what their culture was like pre-interstellar travel. And forgot about the cellular transformation; what's really unnerving is that they've already infiltrated the Union enough that they were able to create a fake military officer with fake transfer orders. Janel wasn't just someone they found stranded in space or even a civilian scientist. Also there's clearly already some kind of diplomatic back channel (likely a 3rd party) given that they were able to arrange a repatriation for Teleya (& presumably the Krill children).
  #237  
Old 01-19-2019, 06:56 PM
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I didn't see the twist coming or realize it was the same actress. I missed the hints.

Also isn't a captain giving up codes, especially over a woman he only dated for a few weeks, court martial material? Jeez. This is a military ship after all.

Also I agree, they seemed nonchalant about the krill infiltration.

And I'm guessing the krill are a metaphor for the growth in xenophobia and Islamic extremism in this age of globalization.
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  #238  
Old 01-19-2019, 06:59 PM
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What other show was it taken from?

In this episode, a new crew member turned out to be an altered alien enemy from earlier in the series. In last season's Star Trek Discovery, a new crew member turned out to be an altered alien enemy from earlier in the series
  #239  
Old 01-19-2019, 07:06 PM
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In this episode, a new crew member turned out to be an altered alien enemy from earlier in the series. In last season's Star Trek Discovery, a new crew member turned out to be an altered alien enemy from earlier in the series
and don't forget that one time, in the neutral zone....
  #240  
Old 01-19-2019, 07:23 PM
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and don't forget that one time, in the neutral zone....

Hey, what Picard does with his Ressikan flute is nobody's business but his!
  #241  
Old 01-19-2019, 09:09 PM
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In this episode, a new crew member turned out to be an altered alien enemy from earlier in the series. In last season's Star Trek Discovery, a new crew member turned out to be an altered alien enemy from earlier in the series
There was also a tng episode where an alien impersonates a starfleet officer to try to direct the enterprise to attack their enemies base. I forget the title though.
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  #242  
Old 01-19-2019, 10:01 PM
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There was also a tng episode where an alien impersonates a starfleet officer to try to direct the enterprise to attack their enemies base. I forget the title though.

Conundrum.
  #243  
Old 01-20-2019, 06:42 AM
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Agreed.

SPOILER:
The Krill are fascinating and I'm intrigued by what their culture was like pre-interstellar travel. And forgot about the cellular transformation; what's really unnerving is that they've already infiltrated the Union enough that they were able to create a fake military officer with fake transfer orders. Janel wasn't just someone they found stranded in space or even a civilian scientist. Also there's clearly already some kind of diplomatic back channel (likely a 3rd party) given that they were able to arrange a repatriation for Teleya (& presumably the Krill children).
I just hope it's not an ability that is used once and never again. It still pisses me off that on the old Adventures of Superman show Superman had a couple of incredibly useful powers used once and once only. He developed the ability to phase through walls in one episode and in another he was able to split into two Supermen (Supermans?); each of whom could operate independently although they were weaker than the combined Superman.

SPOILER:
As long as the Krill retain the cellular transformation ability and use it when it makes plot sense I'm OK with it. I'm OK with the handwave that it's agonizingly painful and requires a great commitment and a willing volunteer to make it happen, it shouldn't be too easy, or you'd never be able to assume anyone was who they claimed to be.
  #244  
Old 01-20-2019, 07:37 AM
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I kinda got the impression this species thought itself (or at least Alara's father thought his family) had evolved beyond the need for anything resembling rambunctious physical activity, let alone violence, so his daughter being in the military would strike him as especially jarring, he himself would be hesitant to engage in something as demanding as climbing over a railing and jumping to the ground, and he would be utterly psychologically helpless when confronted with sadistic home invaders.
Yeah, that was my impression, too.

Regarding the most recent episode, I thought Ed should learn to duck or at least crouch when he's in a shootout with blaster-wielding trolls.

(Somewhere else on the web, someone asked why Teleya needed to turn the gun over to Ed - I figure that a trained officer is probably better at shooting than a school teacher who has had a few months of training at spying).
  #245  
Old 01-20-2019, 07:44 AM
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P.S. Another classic Trek episode with a similar theme is "I, Mudd" which starts with the infiltration of an android into the crew of Enterprise.
  #246  
Old 01-20-2019, 07:50 AM
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...(Somewhere else on the web, someone asked why Teleya needed to turn the gun over to Ed - I figure that a trained officer is probably better at shooting than a school teacher who has had a few months of training at spying).
I think she was incapacitated by the sunlight.
  #247  
Old 01-20-2019, 07:52 AM
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I think she was incapacitated by the sunlight.
That too.
  #248  
Old 01-20-2019, 08:51 AM
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I didn't see the twist coming or realize it was the same actress. I missed the hints.

Also isn't a captain giving up codes, especially over a woman he only dated for a few weeks, court martial material? Jeez. This is a military ship after all.
But he didn't give up the codes. It was revealed later in the episode that they were fake.
  #249  
Old 01-20-2019, 09:14 AM
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But then he gave up the fact that the codes were fake, and that's less explainable because it wasn't even coerced. Now the Krill will know to be suspicious of any codes they get, and to torture any captured captains with the intent to driving them to give them the real codes.

I remember thinking as soon as he let it slip that they were fake codes, he could never give her back to her people. But they just forgot that I guess.
  #250  
Old 01-20-2019, 09:42 AM
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Just got caught up last night on the last two episodes.

Sorry to see Alara go. When Ed was talking to Alara and saying that a Security Officer needs to be more than some one who can bust heads (or something to that effect) then rattled off a couple of other qualifications, I said to my wife "...Opening a jar of pickles..." So it was nice to see that she gifted him with one as a going-away present.

I'm hoping they don't keep the new Security Officer very long. I like Patrick Warburton but holy crap that character is annoying.
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