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  #1  
Old 02-08-2019, 03:48 AM
SlackerInc SlackerInc is offline
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AOC's "Green New Deal" pipe dream

Mike Pesca delivers a nice takedown of AOC’s truthiness schtick in the latest episode of his daily Slate podcast The Gist, starting at 19:30:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...-new-deal.html

Note that Pesca (like me) is a center-left Democrat, and he explicitly says he would be cool with Scandinavian style democratic socialist policies, though he doubts they could get past political hurdles in the U.S. But what AOC is talking about here goes far beyond that, and what really alarms me is the Trump-style dismissal of the importance of fact checking. Just dream big, kids!
  #2  
Old 02-08-2019, 04:53 AM
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Man, you learned nothing from the last thread you started with nothing more than a link to a podcast.

Last edited by Budget Player Cadet; 02-08-2019 at 04:54 AM.
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Old 02-08-2019, 05:05 AM
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too bad the other party doesn't have anyone who will question their own comrades like that eh?
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Old 02-08-2019, 05:57 AM
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Yes, it is clueless crackpottery that rivals Trump's "land a man on Mars by next Tuesday" proposal in it's disconnect from reality. Let's replace every building in the country! And build new railroads everywhere. But--you know--do it carbon-neuturally! Get rid of all fossil fuels and also cows!
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:27 AM
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I read a summary of the proposal, and was rather shocked to learn that all elements of the plan are non-binding. As in, the Green New Deal amounts to as much hot air as any of Trump’s stupid speeches.

So some people are going to fight tooth and nail over a statement of ideas, whereby even if they win, they get nothing concrete? Jeez, isn’t there something that can ACTUALLY be done about the problem?

ETA: and by the way, I’m not going to listen to a fucking podcast.

Last edited by Ravenman; 02-08-2019 at 06:27 AM.
  #6  
Old 02-08-2019, 06:38 AM
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Jeez, isn’t there something that can ACTUALLY be done about the problem?

IMO, no. It is a "civilization is screwed" problem on the scale of trying to stick a cork in a supervolcano.
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:50 AM
SlackerInc SlackerInc is offline
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ETA: and by the way, I’m not going to listen to a fucking podcast.

A number of people here are so weird about podcasts. I never see this anywhere else. Do you also refuse to listen to NPR, to watch PBS Newshour segments, or YouTube videos? How is this attitude any different from some old git 20 years ago sitting in his armchair, newspaper in hand, muttering “I’m not going to look at a fucking Internet message board”? Seriously, it’s 2019: get with the times.
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Old 02-08-2019, 07:06 AM
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A number of people here are so weird about podcasts. I never see this anywhere else. Do you also refuse to listen to NPR, to watch PBS Newshour segments, or YouTube videos? How is this attitude any different from some old git 20 years ago sitting in his armchair, newspaper in hand, muttering “I’m not going to look at a fucking Internet message board”? Seriously, it’s 2019: get with the times.
I read at roughly 3x the rate that most people speak, because I've been reading my entire life. I was too poor for a TV as a young child, so I took my entertainment from books. When I want to fix something in my car, I look for a Hayne's manual, not a stupid Youtube video, because the diagram is right there without having to listen to some bozo’s introduction, and explanation of the correct screw driver, and other senseless background.

No, I don’t listed to NPR or watch PBS Newshour. I will, however, read reports on significant happenings. I’ll also use, say, a forum such as this one instead of doing social media with Snapchat, Youtube, and other non-text formats.

As it happens, sometimes I’m stuck in my car, and as a captive, I will listen to audiobooks or podcasts (I’m currently going through my archive of Econtalk). But I’m not on the SDMB while in my car. The issue people have with podcasts and responding to them here is that there’s an expectation of immediateness. We can easily skim an article you might post, but we can’t drop everything to listen to some obscure podcast that you link to. That’s not how conversations happen.
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Old 02-08-2019, 08:11 AM
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A number of people here are so weird about podcasts. I never see this anywhere else. Do you also refuse to listen to NPR, to watch PBS Newshour segments, or YouTube videos? How is this attitude any different from some old git 20 years ago sitting in his armchair, newspaper in hand, muttering “I’m not going to look at a fucking Internet message board”? Seriously, it’s 2019: get with the times.
"Why won't people spend half an hour listening to audio (meaning they cannot read at their own pace and cannot listen at work) to have an argument about a subject I refuse to summarize in the BBQ pit?"
  #10  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
A number of people here are so weird about podcasts. I never see this anywhere else. Do you also refuse to listen to NPR, to watch PBS Newshour segments, or YouTube videos? How is this attitude any different from some old git 20 years ago sitting in his armchair, newspaper in hand, muttering “I’m not going to look at a fucking Internet message board”? Seriously, it’s 2019: get with the times.
Most of us aren't Slackers, and therefore don't have tons of free time to listen to some podcast some other moron recommended.
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Old 02-08-2019, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
A number of people here are so weird about podcasts. I never see this anywhere else. Do you also refuse to listen to NPR, to watch PBS Newshour segments, or YouTube videos? How is this attitude any different from some old git 20 years ago sitting in his armchair, newspaper in hand, muttering “I’m not going to look at a fucking Internet message board”? Seriously, it’s 2019: get with the times.
Oh, I listen to NPR and the news because it is generally informative outside of the context of a half-assed argument that you're trying to peddle. I'm not going to waste my time listing to god-knows how much audio -- which takes much more time to digest than the written word -- for the sake of an internet argument.

You're lazy and its your fault.
  #12  
Old 02-08-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
A number of people here are so weird about podcasts. I never see this anywhere else. Do you also refuse to listen to NPR, to watch PBS Newshour segments, or YouTube videos? How is this attitude any different from some old git 20 years ago sitting in his armchair, newspaper in hand, muttering “I’m not going to look at a fucking Internet message board”? Seriously, it’s 2019: get with the times.
I love podcasts.

A summary of what you're asking people to read would be a lot less lazy on your part.

Last edited by Bone; 02-08-2019 at 12:03 PM.
  #13  
Old 02-08-2019, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
A number of people here are so weird about podcasts. I never see this anywhere else. Do you also refuse to listen to NPR, to watch PBS Newshour segments, or YouTube videos? How is this attitude any different from some old git 20 years ago sitting in his armchair, newspaper in hand, muttering “I’m not going to look at a fucking Internet message board”? Seriously, it’s 2019: get with the times.
Fuck you, dipshit. I can read like 1000x faster than most people speak. Fuck you.
  #14  
Old 02-08-2019, 06:05 PM
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Do you also refuse to listen to NPR
Yes

Quote:
to watch PBS Newshour segments
Yes

Quote:
or YouTube videos?
Yes.

I also used the In the News segments suring Saturday morning cartoons to go get another bowl of Cocoa Pebbles.

Quote:
How is this attitude any different from some old git 20 years ago sitting in his armchair, newspaper in hand, muttering “I’m not going to look at a fucking Internet message board”?
I don't have anything against old gits. Not sure why you do.

But it's different because, as others have mentioned, we can read one hell of a lot faster than some younger git can talk, and reading a message board isn't significantly slower than reading a physical newspaper, book, or magazine.

Quote:
Seriously, it’s 2019: get with the times.
Seriously, no. My time is too valuable to waste on some sick new video. (You young gits still say sick, right?) Give me a summary or a link to some relevant piece of the video that backs up whatever claim you're making.
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Old 02-08-2019, 09:35 PM
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Do you also refuse to listen to NPR,
I don't 'refuse' to listen to NPR, I just don't listen to it.
Quote:
to watch PBS Newshour segments,
We've never watched enough TV to justify the $$ to pay for cable. All we really do with our TV is watch the occasional movie.
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or YouTube videos?
Only to listen to music that I don't own.
Quote:
How is this attitude any different from some old git 20 years ago sitting in his armchair, newspaper in hand, muttering “I’m not going to look at a fucking Internet message board”?
Maybe because I was always the fastest reader I knew until I met my wife, but taking in information via the spoken word is just too damn slow.

This was not a problem with blogs or message boards.
Quote:
Seriously, it’s 2019: get with the times.
It's not a problem with Twitter, either. Is Twitter sufficiently 'with the times' for you? I follow a bunch of people on Twitter.

Yeah, it's not Instagram or Snapchat in terms of being 'with the times,' but then podcasts have been around awhile too. They're not exactly cutting-edge these days.
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
A number of people here are so weird about podcasts. I never see this anywhere else. Do you also refuse to listen to NPR, to watch PBS Newshour segments, or YouTube videos? How is this attitude any different from some old git 20 years ago sitting in his armchair, newspaper in hand, muttering “I’m not going to look at a fucking Internet message board”? Seriously, it’s 2019: get with the times.
Wow! I saw a similar confused comment in another recent thread — or was that also you?

Will you stipulate that some communication media are more efficient than others? I generally avoid .ppt's, .doc's, and .xls's as well. Would you read a webpage in illegible scrawls? An audio of Morse code? Smoke signals? No? So you are familiar with the concept that some media are more efficient than others; do we have to hold you by the hand and explain why podcasts are inefficient?

NPR podcasts generally have transcripts IIRC; I do read those sometimes. One time when podcasts might be efficient is when I'm driving down the road with eyes on the road but ears available. Do I also need to explain why this is not my podcast-listening time?

"It’s 2019: get with the times." This is ironically funny. I'd work on it a little though if I were you, before submitting it to The Onion or trying it at your stand-up comic gig.
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:43 AM
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So you are familiar with the concept that some media are more efficient than others; do we have to hold you by the hand and explain why podcasts are inefficient?
We've tried that. Doesn't seem to have worked.
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:12 AM
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I read a summary of the proposal, and was rather shocked to learn that all elements of the plan are non-binding. As in, the Green New Deal amounts to as much hot air as any of Trump’s stupid speeches.

So some people are going to fight tooth and nail over a statement of ideas, whereby even if they win, they get nothing concrete? Jeez, isn’t there something that can ACTUALLY be done about the problem?

ETA: and by the way, I’m not going to listen to a fucking podcast.
Of course it's non-binding -- it's a resolution. That's all it ever was.

I seriously wonder why everyone is kicking up so much dust over a simple resolution, which does nothing more than offer an amorphous vision for what a handful of congresspeople would like to see. It reads like a white paper or mission statement more than a piece of legislation, except for its legalistic prose.

The most controversial aspect of AOC's resolution seems to be the idea of creating a jobs works program for the development of infrastructure. It'll probably end up being a lot less controversial when we see actual legislation, because if it's not, it'll probably never get beyond committee hearings.

The way I see it, if AOC and her allies play their cards right, they can use this agenda to steer legislative efforts into several different directions. I can't yet determine if this is just politically gimmickry in the age of Twitta-Gram, or if AOC possesses a much higher caliber of political acumen than I ever suspected and is actually, intentionally orchestrating a shrewed multi-pronged strategy to drive the platform for the next 4-6 years. She - and democrats - can use this platform to work with labor unions, the healthcare and public health fields, environmental groups, and other constituencies.

Before judging I'll take a wait and see approach. But this is all overreaction at this point.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:45 AM
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Yes, it is clueless crackpottery that rivals Trump's "land a man on Mars by next Tuesday" proposal in it's disconnect from reality. Let's replace every building in the country! And build new railroads everywhere. But--you know--do it carbon-neuturally! Get rid of all fossil fuels and also cows!
Yes, let's continue letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. We can't stop all murders, so let's stop trying. We won't be able to stop poverty, so let's not help them at all. We can't replace building or be immediately carbon-neutral, so let's not even try. Instead of going through the dozens of recommendations and ideas in the plan and debating their worth, cost, and feasibility, let's just make fun of her for actually trying to make a change.

Last edited by Hamlet; 02-08-2019 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:56 AM
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Yes, let's continue letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. We can't stop all murders, so let's stop trying. We won't be able to stop poverty, so let's not help them at all. We can't replace building or be immediately carbon-neutral, so let's not even try. Instead of going through the dozens of recommendations and ideas in the plan and debating their worth, cost, and feasibility, let's just make fun of her for actually trying to make a change.
Well, that's easier, right?
  #21  
Old 02-08-2019, 12:12 PM
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Yes, let's continue letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

This isn't the perfect being the enemy of the good--this is the remotely possible being the enemy of the harebrained. "The way to save the environment is massive amounts of new construction, and also universal unions, free healthcare, and lifetime support for those 'unwilling to work.'"
  #22  
Old 02-08-2019, 12:35 PM
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This isn't the perfect being the enemy of the good--this is the remotely possible being the enemy of the harebrained. "The way to save the environment is massive amounts of new construction, and also universal unions, free healthcare, and lifetime support for those 'unwilling to work.'"
Good to know that you oppose universal health care coverage that would include stay-at-home moms.
  #23  
Old 02-08-2019, 01:37 PM
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This isn't the perfect being the enemy of the good--this is the remotely possible being the enemy of the harebrained. "The way to save the environment is massive amounts of new construction, and also universal unions, free healthcare, and lifetime support for those 'unwilling to work.'"
You left off the "unable".

Frankly, I see nothing that's not "remotely possible" except in the minds of Real Murkins (tm) who equate driving anything other than their SUV/monster-pickup/minitank/penis substitute with Gawdless Communism. Is it a little pie-in-the-sky? Maybe. What a pity that the country that built the Panama Canal, put men on the Moon and eliminated smallpox has lost the ability to Dream Big.
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:31 PM
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Yes, it is clueless crackpottery that rivals Trump's "land a man on Mars by next Tuesday" proposal in it's disconnect from reality. Let's replace every building in the country! And build new railroads everywhere. But--you know--do it carbon-neuturally! Get rid of all fossil fuels and also cows!
The rails are already there, currently used mostly for freight. Many of the old passenger train stations still exist. The high speed locomotives and passenger cars would need to be procured.
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:41 PM
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The rails are already there, currently used mostly for freight. Many of the old passenger train stations still exist. The high speed locomotives and passenger cars would need to be procured.

Freight trains are, as you hopefully know, the most environmentally responsible way to transport goods. Current rules give them priority over passenger trains. Hard to see how that could continue to be true with a massive increase in use for passengers (which I would support BTW: I love Amtrak). I just don't think your plan to simply pile all these trains on the extant tracks is going to work. Not to mention that there are lots of places in the middle of the country that are inconveniently far away from any train tracks.


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What do you mean "centuries"?
Whatever, "over a century", since the Industrial Revolution began. More than just "decades", is my point.
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Old 02-11-2019, 06:12 PM
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Oh right, you're one of those stupid denialist fuckwits who insists that if we bury our heads in the sand everything will be fine despite all available evidence. Fuck you. Fuck you and everything you stand for. Your kids will curse your name.
An old article (06/2017) that I'm sure has been posted in some thread:

Why don't Christian conservatives worry about climate change? God.

A key bloc of Trump's supporters think solving the problem is out of human hands.

Quote:
The United States will withdraw from the Paris agreement on climate change, President Trump announced Thursday. Environmental scientists say the consequences could be catastrophic for the planet. But for some Trump supporters, there’s no reason to worry.

“As a Christian, I believe that there is a creator in God who is much bigger than us,” Rep. Tim Walberg (R-Mich.) told constituents last week at a town hall in Coldwater, Mich. “And I’m confident that, if there’s a real problem, he can take care of it.”

Among conservative evangelicals, that is not an unusual opinion. Nearly all evangelicals — 88 percent, according to the Pew Research Center on Religion & Public Life — believe in miracles, suggesting a faith in a proactive God. And only 28 percent of evangelicals believe human activity is causing climate change. Confidence that God will intervene to prevent people from destroying the world is one of the strongest barriers to gaining conservative evangelical support for environmental pacts like the Paris agreement.
See? We don't need to bury our heads in the sand. No. We just need to look up to heaven!

It gets better:

Quote:
When scientists began sounding the alarm over climate change in the 1980s, conservative evangelicals, who had been somewhat accepting of environmentalism in the 1970s, became convinced that the Antichrist would use the fear of climate change to seize power.

...

Economic conservatives downplayed the science or even argued that global warming wasn’t actually happening, and premillennialists like Texe Marrs seized on such arguments to accuse environmentalists of perpetuating a hoax in the service of the Antichrist.

...

For Christians like Walberg, globalism is the most dire threat to the United States, not rising oceans and more powerful hurricanes. Just as conservative evangelicals opposed arms treaties during the Cold War, they see environmental pacts, like the Paris agreement, as paving the way for a charismatic world leader to form a global government and begin the seven-year Tribulation that precedes the Second Coming of Christ. Hal Lindsey in 2015 denounced climate change as a scam “being used to consolidate the governments of the world into a coalition that may someday facilitate the rise of the Antichrist.”

Trump’s anti-globalism was part of what made him attractive to conservative evangelicals in last year’s Republican primaries and the general election — and still now as president. Even if Trump’s personal life is an affront to Christian values, his message means that the United States will be standing against the potential forces of the Antichrist.
Reject the Antichrist! Only Trump can save the world!
  #27  
Old 02-08-2019, 06:24 AM
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Couple of interesting articles.
  #28  
Old 02-08-2019, 06:58 AM
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A well-thought out and written piece beats a stream-of-consiousness audio (or video) recording of an "internet famous" person 99.999% of the time.
  #29  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:01 AM
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(Pssst...for non Americans...AOC=A specific politician, who’s name apparently cannot be mentioned!)
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Old 02-08-2019, 08:11 AM
Gary Kumquat Gary Kumquat is offline
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(Pssst...for non Americans...AOC=A specific politician, who’s name apparently cannot be mentioned!)
It's Slacker. You can't expect him to write a whole three words when he can abbreviate, anymore than you can expect him to be arsed writing a thread when he can link to a podcast.
  #31  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:24 AM
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(Pssst...for non Americans...AOC=A specific politician, who’s name apparently cannot be mentioned!)
I'm an American (although an expatriate) and had no idea what the fuck the OP was talking about either until I figured it out.

Apparently the OP thinks that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez already has the status of FDR, JFK, or LBJ to be immediately recognizable by initials. (This is a knock against the OP, not Rep. Ocasio-Cortez.)
  #32  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:45 AM
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Apparently the OP thinks that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez already has the status of FDR, JFK, or LBJ to be immediately recognizable by initials. (This is a knock against the OP, not Rep. Ocasio-Cortez.)

That's an unfair criticism--everywhere is calling her AOC.
  #33  
Old 02-08-2019, 10:25 AM
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That's an unfair criticism--everywhere is calling her AOC.
Mostly because her name is like 10-11 syllables if you say all of it out loud; nobody's got time for that.

I suspect if she went by "Alex Ocasio", that would be what she's called, but instead, we get the Latin-style father's surname and mother's surname combination, both of which have several syllables as well as a rather multisyllabic first name.
  #34  
Old 02-08-2019, 11:31 AM
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Mostly because her name is like 10-11 syllables if you say all of it out loud; nobody's got time for that.

I suspect if she went by "Alex Ocasio", that would be what she's called, but instead, we get the Latin-style father's surname and mother's surname combination, both of which have several syllables as well as a rather multisyllabic first name.
Slight hijack: didn't she go by "Sandy" at one point?
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:20 AM
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That's an unfair criticism--everywhere is calling her AOC.
It's idiotic to think that what you see is what everyone sees. No, she's not called that "everywhere." The abbreviation is meaningless where I am, and in many other parts of "everywhere." Your thinking that the US is "everywhere" is just blinkered.

Last edited by Colibri; 02-08-2019 at 11:22 AM.
  #36  
Old 02-08-2019, 12:03 PM
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It's idiotic to think that what you see is what everyone sees. No, she's not called that "everywhere." The abbreviation is meaningless where I am, and in many other parts of "everywhere." Your thinking that the US is "everywhere" is just blinkered.
Would you settle for, "She's called AOC everywhere on this very message board?"

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&highlight=AOC
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&highlight=AOC
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&highlight=AOC
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&highlight=AOC
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&highlight=AOC
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&highlight=AOC
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ght=AOC&page=2
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&highlight=AOC
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&highlight=AOC
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ght=AOC&page=8

And so on, and so on.

I'm not saying you're wrong to not know of the term AOC, but personally I can't swing a dead cat on this board without hitting the initials.
  #37  
Old 02-08-2019, 11:53 AM
Bruce Wayne Bruce Wayne is offline
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Apparently the OP thinks that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez already has the status of FDR, JFK, or LBJ to be immediately recognizable by initials. (This is a knock against the OP, not Rep. Ocasio-Cortez.)
She referred to as AOC in nearly every medium I’ve seen her mentioned. The OP doesn’t live under a rock, I don’t how that counts as a knock against him.
  #38  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:31 PM
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I'm an American (although an expatriate) and had no idea what the fuck the OP was talking about either until I figured it out.

Apparently the OP thinks that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez already has the status of FDR, JFK, or LBJ to be immediately recognizable by initials. (This is a knock against the OP, not Rep. Ocasio-Cortez.)
As a liberal woman, I'm sorry to say that there are a LOT of people who feel that way. That's all I'm going to say about it; whether they're right remains to be seen.
  #39  
Old 02-13-2019, 09:31 PM
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(Pssst...for non Americans...AOC=A specific politician, who’s name apparently cannot be mentioned!)

Ass On Curb (Redbelt)
  #40  
Old 02-13-2019, 11:02 PM
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Messed the last link on my last post, the correct link is this one:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...=.69d6628366ae
Quote:
Deniers club: Meet the people clouding the climate change debate
  #41  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:00 AM
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The "Green New Deal" is nothing more than a conspiracy to guarantee that Trump is re-elected.
  #42  
Old 02-08-2019, 11:45 AM
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And I see from that search that AOC is her tweety thing, too.
  #43  
Old 02-08-2019, 01:24 PM
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This Green New Deal is pretty much exactly what we would have to do to prevent the damage that's coming due to global warming -- according to the latest studies we need to cut emissions to half of 2010 levels in the next 10 years to stop it.

That's definitely possible. In fact, it's EASY - invest heavily in nuclear energy in the short term while transitioning to renewable power. It's also very expensive and politically unfeasible, so the ecology of Earth is beyond screwed.

It's not all doom and gloom though. Global warming won't kill us, or the planet. It WILL cause trillions of dollars in damage over the next century, take many human lives, and destroy the ecosystems we know and love. Apparently, none of that is worth a damn to the people who make decisions in this country, but it is what it is.
  #44  
Old 02-08-2019, 01:45 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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wrong forum

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 02-08-2019 at 01:45 PM.
  #45  
Old 02-09-2019, 02:40 AM
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This Green New Deal is pretty much exactly what we would have to do to prevent the damage that's coming due to global warming -- according to the latest studies we need to cut emissions to half of 2010 levels in the next 10 years to stop it.

That's definitely possible. In fact, it's EASY - invest heavily in nuclear energy in the short term while transitioning to renewable power. It's also very expensive and politically unfeasible, so the ecology of Earth is beyond screwed.

It's not all doom and gloom though. Global warming won't kill us, or the planet. It WILL cause trillions of dollars in damage over the next century, take many human lives, and destroy the ecosystems we know and love. Apparently, none of that is worth a damn to the people who make decisions in this country, but it is what it is.
AFAIK this "Green Deal" wants to get rid of nuclear power, so it's exactly what shouldn't be done to mitigate global warming.

From what I've seen it's a complete shambles... which may be the reason why the topic has been hijacked into discussing other things.
  #46  
Old 02-09-2019, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Ale View Post
AFAIK this "Green Deal" wants to get rid of nuclear power, so it's exactly what shouldn't be done to mitigate global warming.

From what I've seen it's a complete shambles... which may be the reason why the topic has been hijacked into discussing other things.
Thing is that even the ones that worked in the nuclear industry have noticed the problems they have when they see what is going on regarding solar power advances.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2.../#65146a9bd440
Quote:
Answer by Mehran Moalem, PhD, UC Berkeley, Professor, Expert on Nuclear Materials and Nuclear Fuel Cycle, on Quora:

I have taught courses in Nuclear Engineering and a few seminar courses in alternative energies. I also worked for two years starting up six solar factories around the globe. In spite of my personal like for nuclear engineering, I have to admit it is hard to argue for it. Here is the simplified math behind it.

The total world energy usage (coal+oil+hydroelectric+nuclear+renewable) in 2015 was 13,000 Million Ton Oil Equivalent (13,000 MTOE) - see World Energy Consumption & Stats. This translates to 17.3 Terawatts continuous power during the year.

Now, if we cover an area of the Earth 335 kilometers by 335 kilometers with solar panels, even with moderate efficiencies achievable easily today, it will provide more than 17,4 TW power. This area is 43,000 square miles. The Great Saharan Desert in Africa is 3.6 million square miles and is prime for solar power (more than twelve hours per day). That means 1.2% of the Sahara desert is sufficient to cover all of the energy needs of the world in solar energy.

There is no way coal, oil, wind, geothermal or nuclear can compete with this. The cost of the project will be about five trillion dollars, one time cost at today's prices without any economy of scale savings. That is less than the bail out cost of banks by Obama in the last recession. Easier to imagine the cost is 1/4 of US national debt, and equal to 10% of world one year GDP. So this cost is rather small compared to other spending in the world. There is no future in other energy forms.

In twenty to thirty years solar will replace everything. There will still be need for liquid fuels but likely it will be hydrogen produced by the electrolysis of water and that powered by solar. Then tankers and pipelines will haul that hydrogen around the world. One can also envision zirconium or titanium batteries that store large quantities of hydrogen.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 02-09-2019 at 02:49 AM.
  #47  
Old 02-08-2019, 03:19 PM
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She referred to as AOC in nearly every medium I’ve seen her mentioned. The OP doesn’t live under a rock, I don’t how that counts as a knock against him.

Thank you!! The “get off my lawn” mojo is getting REALLY thick around here. “Dadgum podcasts! ‘AOC’, who the hell is that?” Srsly, people?

To be into politics in 2019 but be anti-podcast and have no idea what “AOC” means...that’s not me who comes across looking incredibly out of touch. It’s not a good look for this board, I promise you—and it doesn’t augur well for the future health and vitality of this forum, TBH.


Quote:
Originally Posted by muldoonthief View Post
Most of us aren't Slackers, and therefore don't have tons of free time to listen to some podcast

I don’t shrink from my slacker identity (obviously). But this specific critique is wrongheaded, and frankly clueless. The whole reason podcasts have become such a “thing” is not that people sit down on their couches and listen. Maybe some people do, but I and every podcast listener I know listens to them while working out, driving, cooking, etc. So it’s just the opposite of what you’re imputing to me here. In fact, if I were fabulously wealthy and could REALLY be as lazy as I wanted to because I could hire people to do all drudgery for me, I’d listen to podcasts a lot less—as I’d be more tempted to spend the time reading, posting, watching TV, playing tennis at the indoor club I’d be able to afford to join, etc.

And BTW, I DID briefly summarize what I agreed with in Pesca’s rant. That’s why the OP as some other sentences, which all you text-lovers can presumably parse, beyond “here’s a podcast, check it out”.

ETA: The segment of the podcast I pointed to (a daily editorial feature Pesca calls “The Spiel”) is less than fifteen minutes in length. If you listen at 1.5x like I do, it’s less than ten.

Last edited by SlackerInc; 02-08-2019 at 03:24 PM.
  #48  
Old 02-08-2019, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
Thank you!! The “get off my lawn” mojo is getting REALLY thick around here. “Dadgum podcasts! ‘AOC’, who the hell is that?” Srsly, people?

To be into politics in 2019 but be anti-podcast and have no idea what “AOC” means...that’s not me who comes across looking incredibly out of touch. It’s not a good look for this board, I promise you—and it doesn’t augur well for the future health and vitality of this forum, TBH.





I don’t shrink from my slacker identity (obviously). But this specific critique is wrongheaded, and frankly clueless. The whole reason podcasts have become such a “thing” is not that people sit down on their couches and listen. Maybe some people do, but I and every podcast listener I know listens to them while working out, driving, cooking, etc. So it’s just the opposite of what you’re imputing to me here. In fact, if I were fabulously wealthy and could REALLY be as lazy as I wanted to because I could hire people to do all drudgery for me, I’d listen to podcasts a lot less—as I’d be more tempted to spend the time reading, posting, watching TV, playing tennis at the indoor club I’d be able to afford to join, etc.

And BTW, I DID briefly summarize what I agreed with in Pesca’s rant. That’s why the OP as some other sentences, which all you text-lovers can presumably parse, beyond “here’s a podcast, check it out”.

ETA: The segment of the podcast I pointed to (a daily editorial feature Pesca calls “The Spiel”) is less than fifteen minutes in length. If you listen at 1.5x like I do, it’s less than ten.
Would you be more satisfied if debates on this message board consisted entirely of dueling memes?
  #49  
Old 02-08-2019, 05:13 PM
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Kimstu, I tried to educate you on this before, but it apparently didn't stick: speeding up podcasts does NOT create a "chipmunk" effect. The technology is sophisticated enough to use pitch control.

The rest of your "argument" is just stupid. If it were actually applied, we could not talk about the SOTU, political debates, or for that matter movies or TV shows. (I await your interjecting yourself into threads about those things with complaints that they are not in text form, that you don't have time to listen/watch them, etc., as opposed to reading the OP, deciding you aren't going to take time to consume the media content in question, and moving on to some other thread. )

And in this case it's just ten or fifteen minutes of audio! So it's shorter than any of those other things, and can--again--be consumed while busy doing other things.


Quote:
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Would you be more satisfied if debates on this message board consisted entirely of dueling memes?
Okay, Grandpa.
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Last edited by SlackerInc; 02-08-2019 at 05:15 PM.
  #50  
Old 02-08-2019, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
Kimstu, I tried to educate you on this before, but it apparently didn't stick: speeding up podcasts does NOT create a "chipmunk" effect. The technology is sophisticated enough to use pitch control.

The rest of your "argument" is just stupid. If it were actually applied, we could not talk about the SOTU, political debates, or for that matter movies or TV shows. (I await your interjecting yourself into threads about those things with complaints that they are not in text form, that you don't have time to listen/watch them, etc., as opposed to reading the OP, deciding you aren't going to take time to consume the media content in question, and moving on to some other thread. )
You constantly impress me with your ability to reach new plateaus of utter fucking stupidity.
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