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  #51  
Old 04-05-2008, 06:15 PM
astorian astorian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Dee
None of the above; it just sounds like a bad analogy.Pop music, reality television, summer blockbusters, romance novels; pretty much any and all forms of entertainment.


Also, note that any logic defending bandwagon fans (may they rot in hell) falls apart by one simple example: the Olympics. Unless you can justify rooting for the USSR in the Miracle On Ice, you really don't have a leg to stand on.

It's a damn good analogy, Ellis, and I think you know it.

Ellis, NOBODY willingly spends money on books, movies or music they don't enjoy. They may spend money on "artists" YOU think are terrible, but that's something else entirely. The kids who buy tickets to Hannah Montana concerts LIKE Hannah Montana, and they have a great time at her shows. The old ladies who buy Harlequin romances are getting pleasure from reading them. The teenage boys who went to see "The Transformers" had a lot of fun. So, even if you or I think those are stupid wastes of time and money, the people spending the money think they got good value, which is all that matters. NOBODY who hates Harlequin romances buys them year in and year out, griping all the while about how awful they are.

Sports fans, on the other hand, do that all the time. Look, if Chicago Cubs fans get a kick out of hanging out in the Wrigley bleachers, drinking beer and watching the Cubs lose, that's fine by me! If they have a good time at the ballpark, then the price of a ticket was money well spent. If you're a Detroit Lions fan who buys season tickets each year because you love football and have a ball at the stadium every Sunday, win or lose, good for you!

But let's face it, there are loads of fans of perennially miserable teams that NEVER get better, and NEVER make any effort to get better. And many/most of these fans are NOT having a good time. If you're a Bengals fan, you're usually paying the Brown family a lot of money for the privilege of sitting in a frigid arena watching a horrible team put on a pathetic show. Is that "loyalty," "devotion" or foolishness?
Should such fans feel superior to other Cincinnati residents who've given up on the Bengals? Should they pride themselves on continuing to give their hard-earned money to Mike Brown? Somehow, I think not.

To use your pop culture analogy, let's say that Bambi was a surfer chick back in the Sixties, and the Beach Boys were Bambi's favorite band back then. Does she have a "moral" obligation to keep buying their recent records and going to their concerts, even though

1) They haven't made a good record in God knows how long
2) The members she cared about haven't been part of the band for years
3) The remaining guys sound like Hell.

By your logic, I guess she does. She has no right to say "These guys suck, and I'm not wasting my money on them any more." She HAS to listen to them and give them her money forever, even though she gets no enjoyment out of it. If she decides to listen to other bands that make music she actually enjoys, why, she's a "traitor." She's a "fair-weather fan."
  #52  
Old 04-05-2008, 07:57 PM
JThunder JThunder is offline
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Boy. And people say that Trekkies are fanatics!
  #53  
Old 04-05-2008, 11:04 PM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astorian
It's a damn good analogy, Ellis, and I think you know it.
No, it's a bad analogy. You seem to be missing the point, which is that the fans of bad teams aren't miserable. They still enjoy the games despite the low quality, just like fans of pop music and romance novels enjoy those products despite the shoddy quality.

Everyone's tied on opening day.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 04-05-2008 at 11:05 PM.
  #54  
Old 09-27-2015, 06:33 PM
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Anyone that actually finds someone that switches to another team (without knowledge of why they actually made the switch) a "fair-weather fan," or a "bandwagon fan" is just an ignorant excuse for a human being and sports enthusiast. Astorian said it best in my opinion...

I find that, yes, there are certain situations in which is may be inappropriate to switch from one team to another:
1. Your team is having a bad season, and they aren't going to make the playoffs.
2. You move to another city (while some may believe this is a good excuse to change loyalties, I disagree).
3. The team you switch to is having a great season, will make the playoffs, and perhaps even the Super Bowl and you decide you want to be a part of it. Uh, no! You're a bandwagon fan.

However, there are probably infinite reasons why a switch is fine, and nothing that anyone should feel they have the right to judge someone for:
1. The organization and personnel have completely changed since you became a fan, and you no longer feel that "connection," you once did, or perhaps you feel the organization and yourself are just moving in different directions (a true fan can actually feel a lot like they're in a real relationship with their team) - and blind loyalty to and faith in something of this world is just stupid (looking at you Raiders fans).
2. Perhaps the organization as a whole is just making stupid decisions that you simply don't/can't agree/live with (the Packers refusing to take Favre back, or the Colts getting rid of Manning, along with the majority of the rest of the team, etc.).
3. You truthfully no longer get any enjoyment out of watching/cheering for a certain team - like has already been described, if you're no longer looking forward to watching a game, no longer go to the games...if you're basically just shutting the team out of your life because watching/cheering for that team no longer brings you any happiness, then I would honestly suggest that an individual considers looking for another team (and, no, you do not switch to whatever team looks like they're about to win the Super Bowl).
4. If you originally rooted for a team when you were young because your mom or dad did, and you're finally old enough to make some decisions for yourself, go ahead and pick a team of your own.
5. And so on...

I, personally, have switched teams twice in my life - when I was very young I was a Vikings fan, because that's the team that my dad liked for the majority of his life, and I liked the little horns on their helmets - I honestly wasn't even old enough to understand what was going on on a football field and didn't care either way. Once I got a little older, we had moved to Wisconsin, about an hour away from Green Bay - Brett Favre was the man, Sterling Sharpe was still there, Reggie White, and "the Grave Digger," haha (they hadn't won a Super Bowl yet - this was early 90's), so I became a Packers fan. In 1996, when the Packers went to the super bowl and beat the Patriots, I got my first real look at Drew Bledsoe and the New England Patriots, and although they lost to the Packers, there was just something about them that drew me in - I was still a Packers fan, but I started following the Pats, and was more of a closet Pats fan, because I'd get nothing but shit from everyone I knew if they found out. I was a closet Pats fan, and an open Packers fan for almost 2 decades - I cheered for the Pats when they won their first 3 SB's, but remained a Packers fan, and it wasn't until the Packers (granted, Favre was taking advantage by failing to make up his mind, but still, he's Brett Favre, and at that point he was really all that was left of what made me fall in love with the Packers) refused to take Favre back that I decided I was no longer a fan of the Green Bay Packers, and officially came out of the closet as a Pats fan...now, anyone can say whatever they want about me, and the Pats - it doesn't bother me - I've been called a bandwagon fan because I didn't become an official Pats fan until after they'd already won 3 Super Bowls - I know how long I've been rooting for them, and I know how real my love for the team and the entire organization is; I live and die on their wins and losses - I've stayed a loyal fan through the spygate and deflategate allegations, and the BS I've had to listen to from other people that listen to all the garbage said about them during those times because people choose to believe everything they hear on Sportscenter, or whatever, rather than actually doing the research and finding out what's actually going on.

You want an example of bandwagoning - before the Seahawks won the super bowl 2 years ago, I had only actually met ONE Seahawks fan in my entire life! ONE! Once they went to the Super Bowl, before they even won, there were suddenly Seahawks fans everywhere! You couldn't go anywhere without seeing someone wearing a Wilson or Lynch Jersey...THATS a real example of bandwagoning.

To get back to the original point of this post, there are several (probably infinite) reasons that someone can acceptably switch to another team - after all, it's just a fucking game, and if you're not enjoying yourself cheering for one team, find one that will make you happy (within reason - not just the team that happens to be the best that year - and if you find yourself switching every year, there's a problem). In the end, no one really has any right to give anyone shit for switching teams regardless of the excuse - it's their life, and they can do whatever the hell they want, especially in regards to the sports teams they're going to cheer for! Anyone that gives someone shit for not maintaining blind, unwavering loyalty in a team/organization, no matter what is a moron, and I'd be willing to bet their IQ falls well short of triple digits.
  #55  
Old 09-27-2015, 07:07 PM
Peremensoe Peremensoe is offline
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The Pirates have now had 15 losing seasons in a row. May I please renounce my loyalty to them?
Good thing you quit the Pirates back there.
  #56  
Old 09-27-2015, 07:11 PM
glowacks glowacks is offline
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I'll never root for the Zombies.

Personally, I rooted for my hometown team until I reached the age of reason, when I moved away and didn't see the point of rooting for a team that I only rooted for because they were where I was from, nor did I see the point of rooting for a team where I moved just because I moved there. I pretty much stopped caring about professional sports at that point, feeling that I was told a persistent lie about how the world works as a child with regards to sports. To this day I don't follow American pro sports at all, and the only sport I do follow is a somewhat obscure individual sport many people pass off as not even being a real sport.

Professional team sports have such a large and devoted fan base because people want to feel as though they are part of a team, and often the game itself is secondary. You don't see nearly as many rabid fans for individual sports as you do for the various team sports. Take a look at the football ("soccer") hooligan firms, for whom the entire point of showing up at the game was to beat up the supporters of the other side. That aspect is at least absent from American sports, but elsewhere in the world, football supporters often do get violent just for the sake of getting violent in support of their team.
  #57  
Old 09-27-2015, 08:23 PM
Laggard Laggard is offline
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Grew up in Wisconsin and have been a Packers fan since I was able to sit up and watch tv. At 27 I moved to Minneapolis. At 49 I moved to Los Angeles.

The idea of changing loyalty to another team is simply unfathomable. I'd change families first before I'd change teams. I do realize that it may be completely different if you are a Jaguars or Titans fan.

Last edited by Laggard; 09-27-2015 at 08:25 PM.
  #58  
Old 09-27-2015, 10:49 PM
OldGuy OldGuy is offline
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I suspect there is a huge difference based on age. The ability to follow "your" team was largely limited to a local team before the arrival of internet access. Even for the NFL where all games have been televised for years, for a long time you could only get your home team's games with occasional TV double headers. Baseball -- forget it -- you'd get local and a national game of the week. NBA and NHL (in the US) had no national television at all.

So if you followed a sport, you almost had to follow your local team(s sometimes if you lived in Chicago New York or LA)

Personally I root

a) for the team I grew up rooting for -- the Cleveland Indians -- so no one can claim I'm even close to a bandwagon fan

b) against the Yankees unless their winning might help the Indians

c) against the Mets by transfer hate for NY unless playing the Yankees

d) against the Dodgers and Giants (because I'm old enough to still have transfer hate for them) unless ...

e) for the Cubs because I lived for a time in Chicago and they're a National League team so there's seldom a conflict and they need a World Series win even more than the Indians.
  #59  
Old 09-28-2015, 09:14 AM
Red Wiggler Red Wiggler is online now
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Why would someone change their favorite team to one that is more successful? The more successful teams -- that are not your own -- are who you root against.
  #60  
Old 09-28-2015, 10:22 AM
RickJay RickJay is offline
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I find the resurrection of this thread interesting in the midst of watching millions of people jump on the bandwagon for my favourite team, the Blue Jays, as they suddenly are tearing apart a league that's been beating them for twenty years.

Granted it's a slightly different thing in that most people are coming to Blue Jays fandom from a state of apathy, rather than switching allegiance from the Dodgers or something. Still my position is the same; there is no morality at play in switching or adopting an allegiance. None whatsoever.

In the case of bandwagon fans (from apathy to interest, as with the Blue Jays) I think, frankly, that's exactly how it should be. Professional sports are a consumer product and the fans are the customers. A rational customer base will quite logically place higher demand on a superior product. I don't see anything at all wrong with someone who didn't want to see the miserable team Toronto had in 2004 being in a rush to see the rather exciting team they have in 2015. It's an incomparably more fun product to purchase and consume.

In the case of switching allegiance, again, there's no moral component to it. If you get your rocks off watching the Giants instead of the Cardinals (note that works for two sports) then have at it. And in a lot of cases it's quite understandable. If an NBA fan moves from Detroit to Salt Lake City long term, I can see why they'd adopt the Jazz.

What I'd agree with is that claiming to be a fan of whatever team is the best right now - though to be honest I don't know anyone who does that - seems really boring. Part of the thrill of being a Blue Jays fan right now is that they WERE mediocre for so long, as is the case for Royals fans last year and again this year. Following one team for a long time increases the fun of the experience in that it places you in a long narrative, a drama that unfolds over years and decades as players and coaches come and go and careers rise and fall; jut saying you're a fan of whomever the favourite is right now is kind of boring, like going to a casino and cheering for the slot machines to beat the gamblers. But if that's your thing, who am I to argue?
  #61  
Old 01-13-2019, 11:25 AM
A Merchant A Merchant is offline
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Resurrecting with different scenario

We have lived in the Bay Area for 2.5 years and are San Jose Sharks fans, because we love hockey and we are originally from San Diego where there are no professional NHL teams. I was in the US Coast Guard for 25 years and had we not moved around so much, we probably would have become Anaheim Ducks fans. The Sharks have a strong fan base, the players are extremely personable, and they continue to show-up to the playoffs.

Now we are moving to Seattle permanently for my job. They are expecting to get a new NHL expansion team in 2020-21. I'm really curious to know what other fans in the area plan on doing with the current teams they support, when this new team starts?

Being originally from San Diego, I was never a big sports fan because the Padres and Chargers could never seem to get the stuff together. Now we're moving to a location where there is strong support for the Seahawks and Mariners. I have a feeling a lot of fans will drop their current NHL team to support their home team.

Any thoughts?
  #62  
Old 01-13-2019, 01:08 PM
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kunilou kunilou is offline
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I'm really curious to know what other fans in the area plan on doing with the current teams they support, when this new team starts?
Having a brand new team dropped in your lap opens three possibilities, any of which can be done in good conscience:

1) Drop all loyalty to your old time and root for the new team. But to get the team loyalty exemption, you have to do this immediately.

2) Switch loyalties to the new team except when they play the old team. This is especially permitted when you have followed the old team since childhood.

3) Continue to root for the old team, except when they play the new team. This is similar to being a good guest in someone else's house, and eating what they serve whether you like it or not.
  #63  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:44 PM
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I’m in the Seattle area and I haven’t cared much about the NHL before. I might start when we get a team. I do watch a game every now and then and I admit they can be entertaining.
  #64  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:49 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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My general principles: It's unacceptable to switch teams simply because you dislike losing, but OK (though not required) if you (or the team) have moved geographically, although in such cases a waiting period is appropriate (until most of the players you associated with your former team have moved on).
I would add: It's okay to drop your team if the team, its ownership or management, or one of its players does something morally objectionable to you.

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But if even years later, random reminders of a crushing loss still sends you into a momentary depressive state, as well as thoughts of a OMG NO THEY DIDN'T! wins give you a quick lift of the spirits, then you are a fan.
To me it means you haven't grown up and have immature priorities. It should always be just a game, even to a "true fan."
  #65  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:49 PM
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e) for the Cubs because I lived for a time in Chicago and they're a National League team so there's seldom a conflict and they need a World Series win even more than the Indians.
I see this thread just reopened. I posted the above in Sept 2015. Now it makes me cry.
  #66  
Old 01-13-2019, 03:01 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is online now
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"Fan for life" seems a bit strange to me. Life is a long time (hopefully)

I was a big Baltimore Oriole fan when I was younger I lived in Maryland from 1972 to 1979. That's seven years. I continued to root for the team after I left. By 1987 I had settled in Seattle and started going to Mariner games. I have now lived near Seattle for over 30 years. I think I should be forgiven for becoming a fan of new team over a period of three decades. I have no beef with the Orioles, but I'm a Mariner fan now.
  #67  
Old 01-13-2019, 07:30 PM
Dale Sams Dale Sams is offline
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Baseball: Red Sox. Picked them in 1986 cause I felt sorry for them losing the WS. Stopped watching baseball around 1991 cause it was hard to keep up with my team. Jumped back on the bandwagon in 2004 not cause they won but because of a videogame. Would only quit if the commish does something stupid like banning the shift or putting a man on second in the 11th inning.

Soccer: Newcastle. Picked them cause of the unis. Lost interest when they fired their greatest manager ever. Sir Bobby. Wished them to be relegated. Laughed my ass off. Still keep up with them but their owner is a tight-assed POS.

Raiders: Jumped off when they bought into their own mystique too much by thinking forming a team of miscreants and felons will work every time. Also lost interest in the NFL when expansion and teams moving made it lose nostalgia for me.

Hockey: Got into Vancouver because of the NHL franchise. They traded Pavel Bure and changed unis. I lost interest.
  #68  
Old 01-14-2019, 03:20 AM
bucketybuck bucketybuck is offline
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Originally Posted by kunilou View Post
1) Drop all loyalty
Quote:
the team loyalty exemption
Quote:
2) Switch loyalties
Strangest use of the word "loyalty" I ever saw.
  #69  
Old 01-14-2019, 06:42 AM
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I lived in Indianapolis from childhood until about 2003, when I moved to Hampton Roads, Virginia.

NBA: I started out with the Chicago Bulls, only because I didn't know the Pacers existed. I was just with the Bulls because I had a sweatshirt with their logo on it. Once I learned the Pacers were a thing, I started watching them, around the time they started getting good. Their first big playoff run was in 1994.

NFL: Around the same time the Pacers were doing well, the Colts started showing life themselves. When it comes to pro football, I've always ever been a Colts fan.

MLB: I was an Atlanta Braves fan because I saw them win the World Series, and shortly thereafter, got to talk with Chipper Jones online. (He teased me because my grandfather and I had been pulling for the Cleveland Indians in that series). I became a Nationals fan after I moved to Virginia; during one week in the summer, I was home sick from work, and there was nothing to do but watch baseball. The Nationals share the Mid-Atlantic Sports Network (MASN) with the Baltimore Orioles. I had a natural anti-Maryland bias because they beat Indiana University in the national title game in '02, so Washington, it was. By the end of that week, I was very familiar with that team.

NHL: Never really had a whole lot of interest.
  #70  
Old 01-14-2019, 09:20 AM
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NBA: I started out with the Chicago Bulls, only because I didn't know the Pacers existed. I was just with the Bulls because I had a sweatshirt with their logo on it. Once I learned the Pacers were a thing, I started watching them, around the time they started getting good. Their first big playoff run was in 1994.
Reggie Miller was awesome.
  #71  
Old 01-14-2019, 09:37 AM
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I'm kind of two minds about it, in that I have a pro sports opinion and a college sports opinion.

The nature of modern pro sports means that allegiances are fluid; you may move to a different town, or your team may move out from under you. And a third team may arrive from elsewhere, or an expansion team may arise. My general rule in such cases is that it's perfectly acceptable for you to do what makes you happy.

For example, I grew up in Houston, and as an Oilers fan. The Oilers left, I moved to DFW and the Texans came about as an expansion team. I'd say that it's perfectly ok for me to either have switched to the Cowboys (which I have not), or started rooting for the Texans (which I have really lackadaisically done). I'd think it would be strange for me or anyone else in Houston to have continued to give a crap about the Titans, and the natural course of action would be to hate on them and hope they lose.

OTOH, I still mostly keep up with the Astros and Rockets, as they're the teams I grew up supporting, and they're still there. I used to draw a somewhat fine distinction between the Astros and Rangers in that I could root for both, because the Astros were National League, and the Rangers were American League, but they're both AL now, so I choose the Astros.

College teams I'm a bit more hard noses about- it's your undergrad alma mater first, then your grad school teams. If neither is big-time, then you can choose from there who you like.

Basically what I'm saying is that if you went to say... TCU, then you probably should be a Horned Frogs fan win or lose, not a fan for somewhere else. But if you went to Trinity (NCAA Div III) in San Antonio, then there's no heartburn with you choosing to follow UT, Kentucky, Florida or wherever in major college sports.
  #72  
Old 01-14-2019, 09:41 AM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is online now
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If Seattle is now your hometown, and you're committed to living there for the long term, I can't see anybody criticizing you for adopting its new team as your own. Part of being a team's fan is being part of the community of its fans, and being a member of the Seattle community is going to include being a supporter of its teams. You're not cheating on the Sharks, you're divorcing them because you found somebody new who will love you back.
  #73  
Old 01-14-2019, 01:35 PM
suranyi suranyi is offline
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Originally Posted by kunilou View Post
Having a brand new team dropped in your lap opens three possibilities, any of which can be done in good conscience:

1) Drop all loyalty to your old time and root for the new team. But to get the team loyalty exemption, you have to do this immediately.

2) Switch loyalties to the new team except when they play the old team. This is especially permitted when you have followed the old team since childhood.

3) Continue to root for the old team, except when they play the new team. This is similar to being a good guest in someone else's house, and eating what they serve whether you like it or not.
Number 2 is basically what I did when the Sharks started about 26 years ago. I had been a Canadiens fan since childhood, but Iím now a Sharks fan ó except when Montreal comes to town.
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  #74  
Old 01-14-2019, 03:03 PM
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kenobi 65 kenobi 65 is offline
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I double-checked to see if I'd posted in this thread the first time around (I hadn't).

I grew up in Green Bay in the 1970s and 1980s, which were definitely the lean years for Packer fans. And, in the 1980s, while I didn't stop being a Packer fan, I also started following the 49ers (which were, of course, riding high).

Part of that was that I was a fan of Joe Montana, but a bigger part was that, when Forrest Gregg was coach of the Packers, he cultivated what turned out to be a toxic team culture. Gregg prized "tough players," but what we wound up with (particularly on defense) was a bunch of goons and thugs, who specialized in cheap shots (when they weren't getting arrested). For a few years there, I was embarrassed to say I was a Packer fan.
  #75  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:18 PM
LoneRhino LoneRhino is offline
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Originally Posted by Kamino Neko View Post
Hmm...sports teams akin to family, huh?

What's the process for trading a brother?

I'm not a sports fan in general, so this concept is mindboggling to me.

My father has been a Blue Jays fan since the Jays were founded (the same year I was born, actually).

The current Blue Jays are, literally, a completely different team than the one he started out rooting for, aside from the name, and the fact they're based in Toronto.

Different players, different managers, different owners, even a different stadium.

So, who is he being loyal to?
You're trying to apply logic to something that is completely based on emotion. Remember, fan is short for fanatic. I root for the Mets partially because it is something that has existed all of my life. I don't remeber a time that I wasn't a Mets fan.
  #76  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:25 PM
LoneRhino LoneRhino is offline
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I just realized that I was responding to a post from 2008. Oy.
  #77  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:33 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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I grew up completely entranced by Pete Rose and the Cincinnati Reds. Then I grew up and realized that they are people like anyone else (actually maybe worse), and, moreover, a sports team is a commercial entity with no loyalty towards me. Furthermore sports teams tend to exploit local politics to the detriment of the welfare of the local community.

So, as an adult, I temper my loyalty to any sports team. I expect any fellow adult to do the same.

Last edited by Acsenray; 01-14-2019 at 07:34 PM.
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