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Old 02-07-2019, 03:33 PM
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Frank Robinson, 83

Frank Robinson, NL Rookie of the Year 1956, NL and AL MVP ('61 and '66, respectively), Triple Crown winner (1966), 14-time All-Star, 2 time World Series champion, AL Manager of the year (1989), Gold Glove winner (1958), among other achievements and honors, has died. He was 83.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/b...er-dies-at-83/
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:42 PM
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is he in the hall yet? wow one of the last legends from the golden age of baseball ...
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:47 PM
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R.I.P. Frank Robinson

Frank Robinson, the Hall of Fame outfielder and manager for the Reds, Orioles, Indians, Angels, Dodgers, Giants, and Expos/Nationals, has died of bone cancer at the age of 83. You can read about it here.

Robinson was NL Rookie of the Year in 1956. He is the only player to win the MVP award in both the National and American Leagues. He first won it with the Reds in 1961. That team traded him to the Orioles prior to the 1966 season for Milt Pappas, Jack Baldschun and Dick Simpson, one of the worst trades ever. That year, Robinson won the triple crown, his second MVP award, and was MVP of the World Series.

Robinson became the first black manager in MLB history in 1975 for the Cleveland Indians. He was still a player at the time. Later, after he retired as a player, he managed the Giants, Orioles, and Expos/Nationals.

For some reason, Robinson's name doesn't come up very often in discussions of the all-time greats. Maybe it's because he played at the same time as guys like Mays and Aaron. I think Robinson is an upper-echelon Hall-of-Famer, and is at least as important for breaking the color barrier for managers as he is for his on-field accomplishments.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by nightshadea View Post
is he in the hall yet? wow one of the last legends from the golden age of baseball ...
I would seriously be doubting the legitimacy of the MLB HOF if he wasn't.

1982, first ballot, with 89.2% of the vote.


.

Last edited by DCnDC; 02-07-2019 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:48 PM
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is he in the hall yet?
Hell, yes. He and Hank Aaron were both elected in 1982, both of them in their first year of eligibility.

https://baseballhall.org/discover-mo...n-elected-1982
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:53 PM
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thought so but wasn't sure …
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:37 PM
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I would seriously be doubting the legitimacy of the MLB HOF if he wasn't.

1982, first ballot, with 89.2% of the vote.


.
Gotta wonder what the other 10.8% were thinking...

Grew up in Charm City, one of my earliest memories was the 1966 World Series, I was 4, my father was out running around the neighborhood cheering, I distinctly remember some guys in a convertible with big plastic orange horns driving slowly down the street blowing the horns...

I actually met him twice, once in the owner's box at OPACY...

RIP, Frank...Great story here...
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DCnDC View Post
I would seriously be doubting the legitimacy of the MLB HOF if he wasn't.

1982, first ballot, with 89.2% of the vote.


.
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Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
Hell, yes. He and Hank Aaron were both elected in 1982, both of them in their first year of eligibility.

https://baseballhall.org/discover-mo...n-elected-1982
I don't understand how both of those guys didn't get unanimous votes. It took until this year for that to happen? After well over a century of baseball?
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:17 PM
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Gotta wonder what the other 10.8% were thinking...
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I don't understand how both of those guys didn't get unanimous votes.
I'm thinking either Frank rubbed some of the writers the wrong way (he was certainly capable of that), or, racism. By just the numbers he's as much a no-brainer HOFer as anyone.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:45 PM
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I don't understand how both of those guys didn't get unanimous votes. It took until this year for that to happen? After well over a century of baseball?
There were a handful of old-timey sportswriters who didn't think anyone deserved to get into the HOF on the first ballot. Racism might have played a part, but Joe DiMaggio, Al Kaline, Mickey Mantle, and Sandy Koufax all got into the HOF with a lower percentage of the vote than Robinson.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:48 PM
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There used to be sportswriters who wouldn't vote for a player in his first year of HOF eligibility no matter how good he was. I always thought of it as a stupid display of power. This year Mariano Rivera was selected by 100% of the voters in his first year of eligibility. With this precedent, I hope we will no longer see guys like Mays, Aaron, and Robinson get less than 100% just because some small group of people think they should have to wait an extra year.
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Old 02-07-2019, 11:23 PM
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There used to be sportswriters who wouldn't vote for a player in his first year of HOF eligibility no matter how good he was. I always thought of it as a stupid display of power. This year Mariano Rivera was selected by 100% of the voters in his first year of eligibility. With this precedent, I hope we will no longer see guys like Mays, Aaron, and Robinson get less than 100% just because some small group of people think they should have to wait an extra year.
Hear, hear! That's a stupid AS FUCK unwritten baseball rule...as so many of them are.
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Old 02-07-2019, 11:26 PM
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I was at the old Cleveland Stadium when Frank Robinson debuted as Player-Manager of the Indians. I was with a bunch of guys from College and we were a bit late and our seats were in the upper deck. We were running up the ramp to our seats when we heard the crack of a bat and the cheering of the crowd. I made it just in time to see the ball disappear over the fence, Frank Robinson had homered at his first at-bat as player-manager. You could look it up.

Goodbye Frank...ya done good.
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Old 02-07-2019, 11:34 PM
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I grew up when Robinson was a manager but gradually learned about what a great player he was over the years. Sad day for the game.
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Old 02-08-2019, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by kunilou View Post
There were a handful of old-timey sportswriters who didn't think anyone deserved to get into the HOF on the first ballot. Racism might have played a part, but Joe DiMaggio, Al Kaline, Mickey Mantle, and Sandy Koufax all got into the HOF with a lower percentage of the vote than Robinson.
Exactly. It's always been a ridiculous thing, and clearly a cranky-old-man power trip on the part of a subset of the BBWAA voters. I mean, Babe F***ing Ruth only got 95.1% of the vote when he was elected (in the initial group).
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:31 AM
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The AP has a collection of quotes from people who knew him; every single one calls him a friend. He was one of a handful of players who can lay legitimate claim to the title of Greatest of All-Time, he was a fine manager and executive, but people remember him most for being their friend. That totally fucking rocks.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 02-08-2019 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:59 AM
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My favorite Frank Robinson quote:

Quote:
Close don't count in baseball. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:44 AM
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I'm thinking either Frank rubbed some of the writers the wrong way (he was certainly capable of that), or, racism. By just the numbers he's as much a no-brainer HOFer as anyone.
Lets not get carried away. He was great but he isn't at the same level as Ruth, Ted Williams or Gehrig.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:20 AM
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Lets not get carried away. He was great but he isn't at the same level as Ruth, Ted Williams or Gehrig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Baltimore Orioles teammate and Hall of Fame third baseman Brooks Robinson
As a player, I put Frank in a class with Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, and Mickey Mantle. He was the best player I ever played with.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 02-08-2019 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:47 AM
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Frank Robinson is probably the most underrated great player of baseball history.
Was he the best ever? No, of course not. But the number of other players that were clearly better is very short - Aaron, Mays, Williams for sure; Musial as well; probably Ruth and Walter Johnson.

A lot of it depends how much you value peak vs longevity (i.e. Mantle); how big a penalty you give to players whose career was before integration (Cobb, Gehrig,etc); and how much you discount known/suspected steroid users (Bonds/Clemens).

Add in the managing career and the fairly universal respect he had and he's quite the historical figure.
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Old 02-08-2019, 01:33 PM
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Frank Robinson is probably the most underrated great player of baseball history.
Was he the best ever? No, of course not. But the number of other players that were clearly better is very short - Aaron, Mays, Williams for sure; Musial as well; probably Ruth and Walter Johnson.
For what it's worth, looking at the career rankings on Baseball Reference, they rank Robinson at #18 on career WAR among position players.

So, *the* greatest of all time? Almost undoubtedly not. On the short list of the very best of all time? Unless your personal "short list" is less than a dozen players, I think he's up there.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 02-08-2019 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 02-08-2019, 03:00 PM
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For what it's worth, looking at the career rankings on Baseball Reference, they rank Robinson at #18 on career WAR among position players.

So, *the* greatest of all time? Almost undoubtedly not. On the short list of the very best of all time? Unless your personal "short list" is less than a dozen players, I think he's up there.
Yeah, I was looking at the career WAR among all players, I think he's 24th there. Between players that were really close to him, and others that you could discount for steriods or era adjustment, the players who were clearly better than Robinson are very few.

Mind that I'm not necessarily saying that an adjustment to Cobb's career value (for example) for playing in pre-integration baseball would bring his WAR/value down to Robinson's level - just that it is an argument that could be made. If you penalize Cobb 25%, his career WAR is now in Robinson's ballpark. I suspect 25% is too much, but I feel you have to make some kind of an adjustment.
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Old 02-08-2019, 03:41 PM
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Lets not get carried away. He was great but he isn't at the same level as Ruth, Ted Williams or Gehrig.
Robinson played in an era of open competition and not the All White Baseball League. No doubt, inner circle Hall of Famer.
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Old 02-08-2019, 09:10 PM
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I'm thinking either Frank rubbed some of the writers the wrong way (he was certainly capable of that), or, racism. By just the numbers he's as much a no-brainer HOFer as anyone.
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Originally Posted by madsircool View Post
Lets not get carried away. He was great but he isn't at the same level as Ruth, Ted Williams or Gehrig.
madsircool I'm confused. Are you saying Robinson doesn't deserve to be in the HOF, he doesn't deserve to get in on the first time, or he doesn't deserve 100% of the vote because Ruth and Williams didn't get 100% of the vote (we'll leave Gehrig as a special case)?

BTW, after Rivera, who do you think the highest vote getters were? AFAICT they were Ken Griffey, Jr., Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, Cal Ripken, George Brett, and Ty Cobb. Poor Babe Ruth had to settle for 95.1% of the vote.

Last edited by kunilou; 02-08-2019 at 09:12 PM.
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