Straight Dope Message Board

[Jragon]

Originally Posted by bldysabba

Bonus stars depend on your performance last season. Per wiki

That would make sense, people around rank 10-15 would load in around rank 20-21, I don't think that invalidates my claim too much.

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Jragon

That would make sense, people around rank 10-15 would load in around rank 20-21, I don't think that invalidates my claim too much.

I expect you're right that at the beginning of a season rank 20 or thereabouts would be quite tough. I've also read/heard somewhere that there are people who artificially maintain a low rank to farm wins, and they also tend to hang around the rank 20 mark. I'm not quite sure how/why that would be a thing, but apparently it is.

[Turble]

I'm a free player -- haven't spent any money on the game. Ground my way up to around Rank 14 or 13 with occasional spurts to 11 before getting smacked back down. On the reset I went to Rank 20.

The first couple of days after the reset were tough; had a hard time getting past Rank 19. Battling the really good players who have spent a bunch of money to make really good decks as well as battling not so good players who have spent a lot of money building decks but don't really know how to play them. It's kind of fun to beat a guy with a fistful of epics with my free deck.

Made it up to 15 last night -- the better players with strong cards have bubbled up past me ... and the weaker players with expensive decks are still beatable much of the time.

It's a fun game but the grind is beginning to wear on me. No useful epic cards for my mage yet from free Arena plays.

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Turble

Battling the really good players who have spent a bunch of money to make really good decks as well as battling not so good players who have spent a lot of money building decks but don't really know how to play them. It's kind of fun to beat a guy with a fistful of epics with my free deck.
...
It's a fun game but the grind is beginning to wear on me. No useful epic cards for my mage yet from free Arena plays.

It doesn't take a bunch of money to make a legendary quality deck. Several streamers have demonstrated decks that are free and make it to legend. I've seen Trump do Mage, Shaman and Warlock, and I know someone else has done Warrior (aggro). I'm pretty sure Hunter could make it quite easily.

[Tabby_Cat]

Do they use the arena to get cards, or are they really starting from scratch with just the commons and level reward cards? I'd be really amazed if it was the latter!

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Tabby_Cat

Do they use the arena to get cards, or are they really starting from scratch with just the commons and level reward cards? I'd be really amazed if it was the latter!

Trump starts completely from scratch, with a brand new account. He does the one free arena which everyone gets, but no more. And if he gets a legendary(which he did in two of the runs), he doesn't use it or disenchant it for dust. They're honest to goodness free to play decks that make it to legend.
ETA - he does use the gold that he gets from the daily quests and from winning games to buy packs and then enchants cards that he needs.

In other news - Unleash the Hounds will be nerfed to three mana!

[Tabby_Cat]

Ah ok. A pack a day does add up, but that's pretty fair - take it as buying a 15 pack or something, that's still a reasonable amount of money.

Funny thing is, ever since I started playing my face rogue (basically, windfury+coldblood and shadowstep + arcane golem and a whole lot of gagetzan), hunters aren't a problem for me any more. For some reason, it's the druids and shamans that are killing me.

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Tabby_Cat

Ah ok. A pack a day does add up, but that's pretty fair - take it as buying a 15 pack or something, that's still a reasonable amount of money.

I think he ends up opening somewhere around 10-15 packs in the course of the run(though I could be wrong), which takes him around 4-5 days, so that sounds correct. Interestingly, all three classes that he got to legend reached there within a spread of two-three wins, between 184 and 186 wins total.

[Turble]

The patch upping the cost of Unleash the Hounds just went live. Got in one game but not against a Hunter before the patch bugged out and can't connect now.

BTW: I wasn't supporting the idea that the game is Pay to Win, just making observations on the varying skill levels of players. Trump is a highly skilled and very experienced player. I learned most of what I know about this game by watching his videos.

From what I've seen, experience is very important in this game. Trump was always aware of what the other guy could do to him on the next turn. That only comes from playing all the other types and gaining a lot of experience.

I think the tutorial is very well done. I had never played a game of this type and it got me up and running very quickly. I like it ... and am spending too much time on it.

[Tabby_Cat]

Yeah, being able to plan ahead a few moves is key, I think. This really got driven home for me when Trump suddenly said out of nowhere "that's a Holy Nova play. He's going to Holy Nova." and next turn, the player did! I don't know the other classes well enough to do that right now, and I'm not sure I'll ever do.


Anyway, floating around rank 19-16 right now. Ran into a priest last night, turn 1 coin lightwell, turn 3 divine spirit innerfire, self healing 10/10, BAM.

I had a sap in hand, but gawd that game sucked.

[shijinn]

i love playing priest. the excellent tutorial and the familiar lore made it very easy to jump into the game despite my never having played trading card games before. after trying all the characters i am still drawn to priest as that's my main in WoW. you don't often feel nostalgia playing a new game!

in case anyone's unaware, you can dust Unleash the Hounds for the full price atm.

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by shijinn

in case anyone's unaware, you can dust Unleash the Hounds for the full price atm.

I wish I'd known about being able to dust a card for full price after a nerf earlier. UTH doesn't need dusting of course, but I have a Tinkmaster overspark that I should have dusted when it got nerfed.

[bldysabba]

Just hit my first 12 win arena with what seemed like a very average, somewhat aggressive warrior deck. Highlights were 3 weaponsmiths and a gorehowl. Funnily, for a long time now I only play once a week or so, but watch trump almost every day.

[Tabby_Cat]

*jelly*

I've only gotten up to 6, never 7. What is your secret sauce?

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Tabby_Cat

*jelly*

I've only gotten up to 6, never 7. What is your secret sauce?

I wish I knew! Warrior is a class I'm not very good at, and I would never have predicted this deck in particular to hit 12. Lots of times decks which I think are strong get steamrolled.

Hitting 7 wins with some consistency is doable though. When I was starting out I'd use one of the arena pick lists that are on the internet (I used antigravity's but those are old, you can find trump's here, look at the bottom half of the page - http://www.liquidhearth.com/guides/arena-tier-list). I used to employ that and mana curve considerations while building decks. It may help you when picking cards, especially since what is a good card in arena may not be good in constructed. Like you'd typically never find cult master in a constructed deck, but in most arena decks it can be very good.

[Tabby_Cat]

Whelp. Guess posting in this thread is good luck, because I just hit 8-3! =D With Hunter, one of my less used heroes, too!

[Turble]

Imagunna post because I hit the ugliest streak ever last night. Went from Rank 7 to Rank 13. Hope this works.

[Turble]

This is probably how rumors get started:

After posting in this thread about quickly dropping from Rank 7 to 13 things turned around and I zigged and zagged upward -- now at Rank 4. Get your luck here, guys.

I played against Trump at Rank 5 -- he beat me -- nothing memorable about the game other than that it was Trump. Guess he hasn't made Legend yet this month. Or maybe he switched over to the NA server, dunno??

But I still stink at Arena. Best was five wins.

[Hamlet]

I'm a neophyte to card strategy games and have just picked this up because my daughter who plays was sad because she had no powerful cards. I'm not going to pay for cards, so I started helping her grind for gold.

I find myself frustrated also. We're at level 20 and rarely get past 18, even when we have our favorite decks. It seems there are a lot more people with a lot more powerful decks than people like us who are newish to the game. I've even started to just concede if someone plays a blue dot card in the first few rounds, because there is simply no way for us to beat them. It gets frustrating after awhile. And anytime we do actually get up to level 18, with our crafted deck, we're immediately smacked down by decks replete with purple and orange cards. I don't think we're idiots at playing, but so much depends on the deck, it seems we're just treading water.

This game was great fun for beginners, and might be fun again with a powerful deck. But this middle part, and my refusal to pay for cards, is quickly sapping our enjoyment of the game.

[shijinn]

you have a few choices:

if i'm not mistaken, the only reward for climbing Rank at the moment are cardbacks and golden portraits. so climb to rank 20 and stay away from it. play casual to complete your daily quests. feel free to tap the red cross to make sure they are the 60 gold reward ones.

instead of buying packs, spend it on the Arena. you cycle endlessly at 7 wins, break even at 3 wins and even at 0 wins you lose at most 10-25 gold. it's a good way to spend gold and gain experience.

follow a recommended card deck. i believe the cheapest (and yet competitive) one atm are the Zoolock decks.


p.s. you seem to imply that you do not have any blue cards. if so, you should unlock all heroes to lvl 10 and complete all the ai challenges first. there is a hidden quest for defeating each and every AI.

[CrimeThink]

I'm going the no real money purchases route as well. That's why I am enjoying arena a lot more than constructed, since it is equal except for luck. I play my one or two arena runs a day and start to build up the cards needed for constructed. I'm actually enjoying not having all the needed cards, as the slow progression is more satisfying to me than having everything I need immediately. I average 5-6 wins at arena so it is much more efficient than buying decks outright. I really wish Blizzard would make a practice arena mode that didn't require coins but didn't give any rewards either.

As far as constructed, I went with Zoolock at first since it is a cheap build to make and got to rank 6 fairly steadily without any legendary cards, I haven't hit a wall yet so I guess I'd make it a few more ranks before that happens. I just don't play constructed much. I built a shaman deck next mostly due to the fact that I had a lot of the needed cards and managed to get Al'akir in a pack. I find it sub-par compared to Zoolock or my third nearly completed build, token druid. (Only missing Ancients of lore).

For beginners, I'd recommend playing ranked when you are using your most familiar decks and normal when you are practicing new things and completing daily quests. That way you keep your normal MMR low so you don't need to say learn priest against the same people you would be facing with your best decks.

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by shijinn

p.s. you seem to imply that you do not have any blue cards. if so, you should unlock all heroes to lvl 10 and complete all the ai challenges first. there is a hidden quest for defeating each and every AI.

Thanks for the help. We have one blue card, and have been focusing on leveling up, but now we can change our tack. Thanks.

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Turble

This is probably how rumors get started:

After posting in this thread about quickly dropping from Rank 7 to 13 things turned around and I zigged and zagged upward -- now at Rank 4. Get your luck here, guys.

Nice. What decks are you using?

I played against Trump at Rank 5 -- he beat me -- nothing memorable about the game other than that it was Trump. Guess he hasn't made Legend yet this month. Or maybe he switched over to the NA server, dunno??

I'm guessing you were playing against a fake Trump. Streamer Trump hit legend on the NA server over a week(maybe two weeks?) ago. It would be very, very unlikely for a legend rank to be matched up against someone at rank 5.

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by shijinn

you have a few choices:

if i'm not mistaken, the only reward for climbing Rank at the moment are cardbacks and golden portraits. so climb to rank 20 and stay away from it. play casual to complete your daily quests. feel free to tap the red cross to make sure they are the 60 gold reward ones.

instead of buying packs, spend it on the Arena. you cycle endlessly at 7 wins, break even at 3 wins and even at 0 wins you lose at most 10-25 gold. it's a good way to spend gold and gain experience.

follow a recommended card deck. i believe the cheapest (and yet competitive) one atm are the Zoolock decks.


p.s. you seem to imply that you do not have any blue cards. if so, you should unlock all heroes to lvl 10 and complete all the ai challenges first. there is a hidden quest for defeating each and every AI.

I second all these recommendations. Another reasonably cheap and successful deck is Aggro warrior, but I suspect a board control zoo warlock would be easier and more fun to play.

ETA: And I can further recommend that you use an arena pick list to aid your choices when starting out. Here's one example - http://www.liquidhearth.com/guides/arena-tier-list

[Turble]

I started off playing Mage because I like to throw fireballs rather than poke people with sharp objects. Once I discovered the Trump Budget Mage I made it as high as Rank 7 last month.

This month I switched to Zoo Warlock, specifically the Raynad Zoo. That got me to Rank 5, then a couple days ago I crafted a Blood Knight and changed to a deck called Durp Zoo. Now at Rank 3. Just played my first game against a Rank 1 and lost.

As for playing vs Trump. The guy I played was a Rank 5 Warlock, same as me. I don't understand it either, how it came to be. I doubt the game allows duplicate names and the guy I played was capitalized as Trump , same as the streamer guy. Maybe he had some sort of “invisible” ASCII character in his name or something … I dunno??

I finally have enough dust to craft an orange legendary card but don't know which one to make. Not sure if I'll stick with warlock or if I'll try switching to rogue or druid next month when ranks reset. It is my understanding that Miracle Rogue is the quickest way to Legend but most of the games I'm playing the past few days at rank 4-5-6 have been against either warlock or druid – see an occasional mage or shaman, only one warrior, and haven't played vs a priest or paladin for a long time.

Maybe you can't become a top-ranked Legend with a free to play deck, but it certainly is possible to climb the ranks without orange cards. I have only gotten two of them, Millhouse Manastorm and Lord Jaraxxus, both unplayable.


Fun game. I like it.

[Jragon]

Originally Posted by Turble

I doubt the game allows duplicate names and the guy I played was capitalized as Trump , same as the streamer guy. Maybe he had some sort of “invisible” ASCII character in his name or something … I dunno??

Battle.net started allowing duplicate names a while ago. Around the release of Diablo 3 I think. You have a "public" name and a "private" name, so you can have multiple people named xxxElite360NoScopexxx but they'll have different IDs and when you make friend requests you'll see they're really named xxxElite360NoScopexxx#1357 or xxxElite360NoScopexxx#1922 or whatever.

[Turble]

That solves that mystery. Thanks.

[CrimeThink]

Jarraxus and Valen were my first pack legendaries, so disappointing. I got Ragnaros and Al'akir next which was appreciated. I got a second Ragnaros after which let me make my first crafted legendary. I chose Jenkins since he is fairly flexible and can be used in zoo, token druid and I could possibly make a miracle rogue later on. Thalnos will probably be my second pick since he is also flexible, but spending 1600 dust on a 1-1 makes me sad.

I beat a guy named Reynad, but it was obviously an imposter at rank 8 US.

[Palooka]

How do you know he was an imposter? Did he lose gracefully or something?

[CrimeThink]

Haha. I never watch his stream as he seemed miserable, whiny and depressed the few times that I tried. He is like the bizarro version of Amaz.

[Tabby_Cat]

Wow, guess I'm just lucky as hell, my first 3 legendaries were Thalnos, Gruul, Leeerrroooooy! After that, I opened The Beast. Eh. Can't win everything.

I've only spent $15(?) for the 15 packs so far, and those only got me Thalnos and Gruul. Been doing arenas to fill out the rest of my collection, I only really play Rogue, and have everything I need for Miracle Rogue, but... I just don't like playing Miracle. Every game is a pull at the slot machine, it seems. Mostly playing Tempo Rogue on ranked, up to Rank 11 this Season, but I'm not pushing for any higher - just happy to arena at this point. Maybe I'll try for rank 5 next season.

My arenas have been utter rubbish though, I've got 1-3 twice now. Last draft I had Mage (yay!) with not a single Fireball offered, bad 4 drops, only 1 frostbolt, had flamestrike offered but couldn't take it due to having to take water elemental to round out my 4 drops (otherwise my sole 4 drop would be violet teacher, with my only spells being arcane knowledge and 1 frostbolt)... Bad. And then to add salt to the wound, my reward was dust, not even gold. Here's for thread luck! =D

[Tom Scud]

Originally Posted by CrimeThink

Jarraxus and Valen were my first pack legendaries, so disappointing. I got Ragnaros and Al'akir next which was appreciated. I got a second Ragnaros after which let me make my first crafted legendary. I chose Jenkins since he is fairly flexible and can be used in zoo, token druid and I could possibly make a miracle rogue later on. Thalnos will probably be my second pick since he is also flexible, but spending 1600 dust on a 1-1 makes me sad.

I beat a guy named Reynad, but it was obviously an imposter at rank 8 US.

Jaraxxus is super awesomely fun. I crafted a Leroy a while ago for an aggro deck then opened a golden Leroy shortly thereafter; I'd disenchant the golden one for the dust, but I'm waiting to see if he is going to get nerfed

[Hamlet]

Well, I totally cashed out our gold, our dust, and concentrated on one single deck. Put together a nice deck with a few whites, a few blues, and a purple.


And we promptly got our ass (asses) handed to us three games in a row. At level 19.

What the hell is it with super powered decks (decks with like an epic, 2 or 3 purples, 4 blues, and like 10 whites) at the lower levels? It seems like a waste of time to try and put together a nice deck and play well, just to get steamrolled by an idiot with an overwhelmingly powerful deck who can't seem to get out of the 20, 19, 18 level? It's frustrating as hell.

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Well, I totally cashed out our gold, our dust, and concentrated on one single deck. Put together a nice deck with a few whites, a few blues, and a purple.


And we promptly got our ass (asses) handed to us three games in a row. At level 19.

What the hell is it with super powered decks (decks with like an epic, 2 or 3 purples, 4 blues, and like 10 whites) at the lower levels? It seems like a waste of time to try and put together a nice deck and play well, just to get steamrolled by an idiot with an overwhelmingly powerful deck who can't seem to get out of the 20, 19, 18 level? It's frustrating as hell.

I would caution against the rarity = power mindset.

[Tabby_Cat]

When you say "nice deck", what do you mean? Could you post a deck list here for us?

[shijinn]

you can use http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder if you want.

like i said, there is little incentive for people to rise in rank. considering that it resets every month, a lot of people just mill around the lower ranks doing quests. as it is now, the best way to meet people of your own skill is through the Arena or Casual.

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by bldysabba

I would caution against the rarity = power mindset.

True enough, but some cards are just flat-out "fuck you, I win now". Or just "fuck you, I now have a colossal advantage over you scrub". Leeroy, Defender of Argus, Argent Commander are all very powerful cards that can't really be answered adequately with a noob deck. Same goes for that Demonist deck with the lava & earth giants. "Oh, you've got two removal spells in your deck ? How cute ! Here, have four 8/8s in a row before I turn into Jaraxxus to heal myself back. Then I'll nuke your creatures and heal myself with them too. GG."

I mean, I always try to keep one assassinate/sheep/execute in hand even though it could help immediately, just because I assume my opponent is going to slam down a busted Legendary to finish the game (Yllasera is another "do you have removal in hand, yes/no ? If no, gg"). What are you supposed to do about 4 8/8s turn 6 or 7 ?

Cairne Bloodhoof is also stupid good - "yo, dawg, I heard you like the single best common card in the game, so I put a yeti in your yeti so you can yeti after you yeti".

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Kobal2

True enough, but some cards are just flat-out "fuck you, I win now". Or just "fuck you, I now have a colossal advantage over you scrub". Leeroy, Defender of Argus, Argent Commander are all very powerful cards that can't really be answered adequately with a noob deck. Same goes for that Demonist deck with the lava & earth giants. "Oh, you've got two removal spells in your deck ? How cute ! Here, have four 8/8s in a row before I turn into Jaraxxus to heal myself back. Then I'll nuke your creatures and heal myself with them too. GG."

I mean, I always try to keep one assassinate/sheep/execute in hand even though it could help immediately, just because I assume my opponent is going to slam down a busted Legendary to finish the game (Yllasera is another "do you have removal in hand, yes/no ? If no, gg"). What are you supposed to do about 4 8/8s turn 6 or 7 ?

Cairne Bloodhoof is also stupid good - "yo, dawg, I heard you like the single best common card in the game, so I put a yeti in your yeti so you can yeti after you yeti".

I agree that an absolutely basic card deck will stall out quickly. But last night I used this aggro warrior deck to go from rank 20 to rank 14 in about 2 to 3 hours.

1x Upgrade
2x Leper Gnome
2x Faerie Dragon
2x Heroic Strike
1x Cruel Taskmaster
2x Bloodsail Raider
2x Fiery War Axe
2x Amani Berserker
2x Frothing Berserker
2x Harvest Golem
2x Yeti
2x Arathi Weaponsmith
2x Mortal Strike
2x Kor'kron Elite
2x Arcanite Reaper
2x Nightblade

The only 'blue' cards are upgrade, mortal strike and frothing berserker, which are easily obtainable by spending a few hours with the game. You could probably replace the upgrade and frothing berserker and still do alright. There are no 'purple' cards. I beat plenty of decks with legendary(orange) cards, including Ragnaros and Cairne. I still haven't stalled out. Simply stuffing your deck with rares or legendaries or epics is definitely not a sufficient condition for it being good, but more importantly, I would say it isn't even necessary. The absolute top level decks will obviously need some of the good cards that are rarer, but that is usually a function of the deck philosophy, not the card rarity. A common card can also be really powerful - the Yeti or the Harvest Golem for example are common cards, but are found in many top level decks. Hamlet thinking in terms of 'my deck has a blue and a purple, but it's still getting beaten by people with orange, that sucks!' is just going to get in the way of their becoming better at the game and perhaps even enjoying it.

[Jragon]

I think when it comes down to it, skill levels being equal, a legendary or rare will give the player an advantage over a player without them (excepting maybe cards like Nozdormu or Cho). This is definitely exacerbated at lower skill levels where, even if a card isn't particularly good from a top level perspective, it can be devastating against a player who doesn't know to save removal, or how to use taunt correctly, or whatever.

So Hamlet is probably seeing a real thing, the rares and legendaries probably are giving him and his daughter trouble. If you're Trump, you can probably steamroll those same players and decks, but at Hamlet's skill level the more powerful rares are a real potential danger.

I really do recommend playing a cookie cutter deck for a bit though, go to LiquidHearth and look up the Free <Class of your Choice> decks, they can get your pretty far, and you can very easily convert them to the budget decks which can probably get you to the low single digit ranks (with practice).

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by bldysabba

Hamlet thinking in terms of 'my deck has a blue and a purple, but it's still getting beaten by people with orange, that sucks!' is just going to get in the way of their becoming better at the game and perhaps even enjoying it.

I've gathered enough of the game, and read enough about it, to get the basics, and to understand the value of some cards over others. But I'm also not invested enough to actually play someone else's deck recommendation. That may be the next step.

Perhaps it was lack of detail in my complaint, but the biggest problem is that those high powered cards really do matter in a close game. And most of the games I play are close. Occasionally I'll lose the board control early and be fighting from behind, or I'll just get steamrolled by a plethora of huge cards. But the game gets so frustrating when it seems almost every battle is close, I'm right in it despite fighting a bit uphill and then BAM! here comes Yllasera, Jaaraxus, a faceless manipulator, big game hunter, Leroy, or the Black Knight and it's all over. It's the investment of the early part of the game and the attempting to overcome when, in point of fact, I didn't really stand a chance at all from the beginning. And it's especially bad when the person has been playing poorly.

It's those games, the ones where the huge cards do matter, that piss me off more than anything. I don't mind losing, or even losing close games, if I'm being outplayed, I make mistakes, or the luck of the draw doesn't work out for me. I just hate being beat by better cards and not better card players. And that seems to be happening way too frequently for my taste.

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Jragon

I think when it comes down to it, skill levels being equal, a legendary or rare will give the player an advantage over a player without them (excepting maybe cards like Nozdormu or Cho). This is definitely exacerbated at lower skill levels where, even if a card isn't particularly good from a top level perspective, it can be devastating against a player who doesn't know to save removal, or how to use taunt correctly, or whatever.

So Hamlet is probably seeing a real thing, the rares and legendaries probably are giving him and his daughter trouble. If you're Trump, you can probably steamroll those same players and decks, but at Hamlet's skill level the more powerful rares are a real potential danger.

Sure enough, but its important to recognise that it's not simply a function of 'card power', or you'll end up getting frustrated and won't enjoy yourself. Don't think about your deck in terms of card rarity. That's all I'm suggesting.

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

I've gathered enough of the game, and read enough about it, to get the basics, and to understand the value of some cards over others. But I'm also not invested enough to actually play someone else's deck recommendation. That may be the next step.

Perhaps it was lack of detail in my complaint, but the biggest problem is that those high powered cards really do matter in a close game. And most of the games I play are close. Occasionally I'll lose the board control early and be fighting from behind, or I'll just get steamrolled by a plethora of huge cards. But the game gets so frustrating when it seems almost every battle is close, I'm right in it despite fighting a bit uphill and then BAM! here comes Yllasera, Jaaraxus, a faceless manipulator, big game hunter, Leroy, or the Black Knight and it's all over. It's the investment of the early part of the game and the attempting to overcome when, in point of fact, I didn't really stand a chance at all from the beginning. And it's especially bad when the person has been playing poorly.

It's those games, the ones where the huge cards do matter, that piss me off more than anything. I don't mind losing, or even losing close games, if I'm being outplayed, I make mistakes, or the luck of the draw doesn't work out for me. I just hate being beat by better cards and not better card players. And that seems to be happening way too frequently for my taste.

Like other posters, I suggest you switch to playing Arena. It's a great way to play decks that are (in theory) balanced in terms of power. Constructed play relies on your deck being built around some principle(for e.g the deck I posted above basically relies on beating down the opponent before they have a chance to play a Ysera or Jaraxxus). This often requires the whole deck to be synergised, and can be difficult to achieve for very new players. Arena on the other hand starts you off on a level playing field. I know I enjoy building new random decks each time. Its fun to sometimes get to pick and play legendaries that you don't have!

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by bldysabba

Like other posters, I suggest you switch to playing Arena. It's a great way to play decks that are (in theory) balanced in terms of power. Constructed play relies on your deck being built around some principle(for e.g the deck I posted above basically relies on beating down the opponent before they have a chance to play a Ysera or Jaraxxus). This often requires the whole deck to be synergised, and can be difficult to achieve for very new players. Arena on the other hand starts you off on a level playing field. I know I enjoy building new random decks each time. Its fun to sometimes get to pick and play legendaries that you don't have!

My daughter has spent most accumulated gold on decks rather than Arena. Her, and mine, patience isn't what it should be.

Now I have to start researching how to in in Arena. Any hints?

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

My daughter has spent most accumulated gold on decks rather than Arena. Her, and mine, patience isn't what it should be.

Now I have to start researching how to in in Arena. Any hints?

Disclaimer - VERY rough guidelines. There are few absolutes in the game.

Use the pick lists I linked earlier and your mana curve to choose your deck. What that means is when you start picking your deck the first five to ten picks will almost always be the best card of the three that are presented to you. After that, start looking at the mana cost of the cards. If you have too many cards above 6 mana for instance, you may want to pick lower cost cards over higher cost.

A typical good arena deck(varies a little by class) would have a mix of at least 4-5 spells for removal, 5-7 good 2 cost minions, 5-10 good 5 cost and above minions and the rest in the middle. You play by balancing good trades(between minions on the board), damage to the opponent and board control. This is usually more intuitive in Arena than constructed IMO. When I started playing, I thought that you typically look for a way to have your minions trade and still stay alive. I learnt as I went that good trades are more complicated than that, but that's a decent starting point.

[Palooka]

I spend all my gold on packs instead of arena. It isn't something you need to do if you don't want to.

If I had mostly starting cards, I'd work toward something like this: mid-range shaman deck. I don't know where it says how much dust it costs, but I'm sure it's under 1600. That wouldn't take too long to get and it uses a lot of strong neutral minions that you'd want to work towards anyway. The idea behind it would be to go crazy trying to get board control early in the game and then tramp on the gas so you beat them to death before they can remove everything.

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by bldysabba

Disclaimer - VERY rough guidelines. There are few absolutes in the game.

Use the pick lists I linked earlier and your mana curve to choose your deck. What that means is when you start picking your deck the first five to ten picks will almost always be the best card of the three that are presented to you. After that, start looking at the mana cost of the cards. If you have too many cards above 6 mana for instance, you may want to pick lower cost cards over higher cost.

A typical good arena deck(varies a little by class) would have a mix of at least 4-5 spells for removal, 5-7 good 2 cost minions, 5-10 good 5 cost and above minions and the rest in the middle. You play by balancing good trades(between minions on the board), damage to the opponent and board control. This is usually more intuitive in Arena than constructed IMO. When I started playing, I thought that you typically look for a way to have your minions trade and still stay alive. I learnt as I went that good trades are more complicated than that, but that's a decent starting point.

I am loving the Arena. I read the advice, and it's really quite good. I won 4 before going out, which isn't great, but better than the luck I was having, and I feel much more in control over whether I win or not. I really need more experience with building a deck, but it's eye opening to the fun of the game.

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by bldysabba

Simply stuffing your deck with rares or legendaries or epics is definitely not a sufficient condition for it being good, but more importantly, I would say it isn't even necessary. The absolute top level decks will obviously need some of the good cards that are rarer, but that is usually a function of the deck philosophy, not the card rarity. A common card can also be really powerful - the Yeti or the Harvest Golem for example are common cards, but are found in many top level decks.

Oh absolutely - you do need a deck that makes sense with synergy between the cards, you need to know what the hell you're doing, and knowing what the hell the other guy is doing is possibly even more important.

But when you've got a working Deck Concept that can work with common card A, it's almost a given that it will work even better with blue or purple card B that does the same thing only better in every way. E.g. you could put a TAZDINGO! in your deck for a decent 4 mana wall, or you could drop a Defender of Argus for two decent walls AND a creature on top of that. You could use the Goblin Rocketeer as your Rogue finisher (with Shadowstep goodness) for 10 points of cool surprise damage by turn 8. Or you could do it with Leeroy for 12 damage, as early as turn 6 (16 on turn 7 with the combo buff on top for maximum shenanigans).

And so on.

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

I am loving the Arena. I read the advice, and it's really quite good. I won 4 before going out, which isn't great, but better than the luck I was having, and I feel much more in control over whether I win or not. I really need more experience with building a deck, but it's eye opening to the fun of the game.

Cool. Hope you keep having fun with it. The moment you hit 3 wins, you get some gold back in your rewards, and you always get a pack. Combine that with your daily quests and one or two free arenas a day are easy. If you want to play more arenas with minimal grinding, start a new account. Half an hour spent beating the basic and expert AIs will get you a free arena and enough gold for two more. As long as you don't abuse this system, I don't believe its against the ToS either, since many prostreamers have multiple accounts. The only drawback is your effort and packs opened won't go into building up your collection on your main account, and that may detract from your enjoyment.

ETA: Also, 4 to 7 wins are very respectable in Arena. Going above 7 means you're doing really well, and that arena will net you above 150 gold.

[Tom Scud]

Originally Posted by Kobal2

Oh absolutely - you do need a deck that makes sense with synergy between the cards, you need to know what the hell you're doing, and knowing what the hell the other guy is doing is possibly even more important.

But when you've got a working Deck Concept that can work with common card A, it's almost a given that it will work even better with blue or purple card B that does the same thing only better in every way. E.g. you could put a TAZDINGO! in your deck for a decent 4 mana wall, or you could drop a Defender of Argus for two decent walls AND a creature on top of that. You could use the Goblin Rocketeer as your Rogue finisher (with Shadowstep goodness) for 10 points of cool surprise damage by turn 8. Or you could do it with Leeroy for 12 damage, as early as turn 6 (16 on turn 7 with the combo buff on top for maximum shenanigans).

And so on.

Not really. Having more rares/epics/legendaries does give you more options, but for instance there's no rare that's as good as Harvest Golem, Flame Imp, Lightning Bolt, Fireball, Fire Elemental (lord the complaints Fire Elemental would get if it was legendary), or a lot of other cards for their particular niche.

Epics and Legendaries do tend to have a hammerlock on the high-mana-cost finisher category - you can only go so far with Ogres and you're definitely not going to be as good. And there are some decks that just need rares/epics/legendaries to work at all, like miracle rogue or warrior control.

[Tabby_Cat]

Originally Posted by bldysabba

Cool. Hope you keep having fun with it. The moment you hit 3 wins, you get some gold back in your rewards, and you always get a pack. Combine that with your daily quests and one or two free arenas a day are easy. If you want to play more arenas with minimal grinding, start a new account. Half an hour spent beating the basic and expert AIs will get you a free arena and enough gold for two more. As long as you don't abuse this system, I don't believe its against the ToS either, since many prostreamers have multiple accounts. The only drawback is your effort and packs opened won't go into building up your collection on your main account, and that may detract from your enjoyment.

ETA: Also, 4 to 7 wins are very respectable in Arena. Going above 7 means you're doing really well, and that arena will net you above 150 gold.

New accounts also get 1 free arena. But going through that tutorial again....... *shudder*

Anyway I wish I were doing 4 wins in arena right now. =/