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  #251  
Old 11-13-2014, 01:40 AM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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That's definitely a fringe case of "combo"

People have experimented with KT/Reincarnate combos, but generally they've been more for fun than a game winning combo. The main problem is that KT has to stay on the board for more than a turn, and against most decks this is a tough thing to do. If you did have a KT stay on the board for more than a turn, most likely you were winning anyway. And to even get a chance to do all that, you need to stay alive until turn 8+, and actually play reincarnate.

Still, once in a while, it's nice to pull off the major wombo combo. However, lack of consistency means that you probably won't get far up the ladder this way. Have you tried the priest Inner Fire/Divine Spirit combo yet? Most new players tend to start from there, and I have to say, while it feels amazing to hit face with a 54/54 Lightspawn or Lightwell or whatever, it's very, very rare that everything falls into place and you manage to pull it off.
  #252  
Old 11-13-2014, 11:57 AM
Frylock Frylock is offline
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So here's a video with some stuff happening that I don't understand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYzomfwxkvc

I think I have most of the oddities figured out, but the one thing I don't understand is why seven copies of the destroyed minions spawned on both sides of the board. Any ideas?

What I figure about the rest of the weird stuff is:

SPOILER:

Jaxraxxas: Apparently that player was a Shaman, I read from a comment, though I'm not sure how this is known. (Maybe that card on his board, which I don't recognize, is a Shaman class card?) If this is so, then how Jaxraxxas ended up there would be: he was summoned directly onto the board with a card that places a random minion from the deck straight onto the board, which card I don't know. Then was returned to Shaman's hand with a card that returns minions to the hand. Then Shaman played it.

Zero-cost Twisting Nether: Seems to be landing in the player's hand as the video begins, but on the left side of the hand rather than right. I think there must have been a Lorewalker Cho on the board just before the video began. That, and a Millhouse Manastorm, were killed by a Twisting Nether cast by the opponent, and the Twisting Nether was (by Cho's power) copied into opponent's hand, with zero cost per Millhouse Manastorm)

  #253  
Old 11-13-2014, 12:05 PM
Turble Turble is offline
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Rank 15 puts you in the top 25% of Hearthstone players. You're Better Than You Think!

The pdf Tabby Cat linked to is pretty good. Much like in poker, most players never actually get beyond Level 1 thinking -- I have this so I do this. Going to Level 2 and thinking about what your opponent has is problematical in Hearthstone because there are so many cards (and soon to be a whole lot more). It takes a lot of study/time/experience but it isn't actually all that difficult, just time consuming. That's a good reason to study the popular decks; be familiar with what is most likely to happen rather than spending a lot of time thinking about things that are very unlikely.

I don't play much anymore -- usually just do the daily, maybe play an hour or two once in a while -- and end the seasons at Rank 5 or better ... just haven't put in the grind time to hit Legend.

There are always a bunch of people streaming Hearthstone on twitch.tv; filter out the cursing, drunken young males with loud rap beats drowning out their chat and most of the tittering young females. It's a very slow process learning by watching but I did find it helpful in the beginning to watch people like Trump, Kolento, and Reynad (when he's sober) and listen to their thinking.

I'd say that studying and playing the decks of other people is a fine way to learn how to build your own. You didn't do it alone in poker, you read the books, right? Keep in mind that those top level deck builders have been playing the game for over a year -- use their experience.

The deck listings on Hearthpwn are a good starting place. You can filter out the cards you don't have to find decks you can make. A lot of the deck listings have good discussion on why certain cards are included or excluded, and on what cards may be acceptable substitutes for ones you don't have.

For climbing the ladder, aggro Hunter is the fastest and easiest to play. General Hint: concentrate on clearing his board in the early game, then hammer his face once you get him down to 15 health.

Warlock Zoo is a bit more difficult to play but is probably the most common deck for ladder climbing. It's not really aggro, it's more about making favorable trades than about bashing his face. Zoo decks can be very cheap to make, consisting mainly of basic cards.

Hunter and Zoo decks can climb to Legend. You don't need a big collection of Legendary cards.

To reach top levels will take a LOT of experience mainly because there are so many different cards to consider. It will be very time consuming. And they keep changing the rules.

Two very important things to think about while you play: If you are going to do something that draws a card, draw first (if you can). Always count to see if you have Lethal.
  #254  
Old 11-13-2014, 12:07 PM
Palooka Palooka is offline
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You know it's a Shaman because you can see the Shaman card Lava Burst in the history panel. They setup the board with Nozdormu and an Abomination and then used Lorewalker Cho to pass Ancestral Spirit back and forth. Each instance of Ancestral Spirit causes the minion to respawn, so multiple buffs triggers multiple spawns. They also used Milhouse Manastorm to make the Twisting Nethers free. My guess is that the two Lava Bursts cleared Lorewalker Cho and Millhouse, which is why you can't see them. This also explains why the Shaman used 8 mana on his turn (3, 3, 2.)
  #255  
Old 11-13-2014, 02:28 PM
Turble Turble is offline
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A bit more for SenorBeef.

As you've already seen, your poker experience is going to be very helpful. The game turns out to have a pretty low skill-cap. The real difficulty is the large number of cards and the amount of time it takes to become familiar with them. The new cards coming out soon appear to add an even greater amount of luck/randomness.

Zoo generally refers to a deck which uses only a small number of Class-specific cards and many low cost Neutral cards. It usually refers to a Warlock. They spam the board with lots of low value minions, making advantageous minion trades and pecking at the face until they have Lethal.

Handlock is also a Warlock but rather than lots of small minions, they start off very slowly, tap on their early turns (perhaps playing an early Ancient Watcher which will later be Silenced and given Taunt), building up a hand of many cards while taking face damage, then play Giants and other big minions with Taunt in the late game. When they get down to 12 Health, they play Molten Giants for zero mana, so you have to be watchful about doing damage to their face once they get near that point. You need to either do a burst of damage to take them from 15 to dead (14 doesn't work because they can Tap and take themselves to 12 for the free Giants), or be able to Reach through their taunts to kill them once the Giants are on the board (and do it fast because you only have one more turn when you're looking at a board full of Giants).

Miracle usually refers to Rogue. The miracle is when they play a very large number of cards and do a lot of damage on one turn. When you see a Rogue play an Azure Drake on turn 5, you must kill it. His turn 6 is going to be the Auctioneer and you will sit there for a couple of minutes watching him draw card after card after card before he kills you. There are some other decks with similar play, known as OTK (One Turn Kill), but it is mostly Rogue because they have the class cards to ensure they will draw the needed components for their combos.
  #256  
Old 11-14-2014, 06:50 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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The game needs to move to a timebank system for turn time. I'm willing to accept that occasionally, people might have tricky decisions or a lot of cards to play and might need that long for one turn, though that's stretching it. But they certainly don't need that amount of time every turn. And a lot of people do it just to be dicks - either to punish you for winning or to try to get you to quit, they'll take the maximum amount of time every turn. Which means you can end up sitting there for 20 minutes to finish the stupid game.

The game should have a ~2 minute usable time bank per game and maybe allow turns to last 30-40 seconds otherwise. If you need extra time for a couple of big turns, you can dip into your time bank.
  #257  
Old 11-14-2014, 11:31 AM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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Sounds like byo-yomi, whih ice used in Go. Excellent, but not exactly newbie friendly. Heck, even a chess clock would be nice, and this is comin from someone who likes to play miracle and priest.
  #258  
Old 11-15-2014, 02:47 AM
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Jragon Jragon is offline
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Just run Nozdormu in every deck.
  #259  
Old 11-15-2014, 03:26 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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I hope that's not a serious suggestion.

When the Gnomes and Goblins expansion comes out, you'll no longer be able to get regular card packs (the original expert set) from arena wins. You'll only get expansion cards. So if you like arena, and you want some of the original expert cards, you're fucked.

This is the same reason they won't let you have more than 9 decks - they assume their player base are the dumbest people on the planet and that if you give them anything but the most dumbed down "streamlined" experience, they'll be utterly baffled.
  #260  
Old 11-15-2014, 05:04 AM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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I can understand why they did it, though. The collection book is intimidating enough as it is.
  #261  
Old 11-15-2014, 05:06 AM
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Easy solution: let people choose the card pool of potential rewards when running arena. So they can pick Expert, Gnomes & Goblins, <Future XPac> or a mixture of all those. Hell, make the option cost 100 gold to change their preferred pool.
  #262  
Old 11-15-2014, 06:08 AM
Grumman Grumman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
The game needs to move to a timebank system for turn time. I'm willing to accept that occasionally, people might have tricky decisions or a lot of cards to play and might need that long for one turn, though that's stretching it. But they certainly don't need that amount of time every turn. And a lot of people do it just to be dicks - either to punish you for winning or to try to get you to quit, they'll take the maximum amount of time every turn. Which means you can end up sitting there for 20 minutes to finish the stupid game.
It could be worse. Duel of Champions is a better game than Hearthstone in a lot of ways, but one area where it is definitely worse is for enabling one particular deck archetype where "your opponent quits in disgust" is a win condition.
  #263  
Old 11-15-2014, 07:16 AM
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I accept that as a condition if it's funny. There's apparently some banned card in MtG whose effect is something along the lines of "write down the current game state, reshuffle all decks and play a subgame -- whoever wins that subgame gets <x>". The deck strategy was based on infinite recursive subgames.

That's a pretty funny "quit in disgust" win deck.
  #264  
Old 11-15-2014, 07:31 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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Easy solution: let people choose the card pool of potential rewards when running arena. So they can pick Expert, Gnomes & Goblins, <Future XPac> or a mixture of all those. Hell, make the option cost 100 gold to change their preferred pool.
That would be an easy solution, but it's apparently not happening. I couldn't find the link, but it was an official post on the hearthstone forums that said there'd be no option to choose which decks you got from arena because the most important design goal of the game is streamlining the interface and people would be confused by the choice of multiple decks.
  #265  
Old 11-15-2014, 08:51 AM
Grumman Grumman is offline
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I accept that as a condition if it's funny. There's apparently some banned card in MtG whose effect is something along the lines of "write down the current game state, reshuffle all decks and play a subgame -- whoever wins that subgame gets <x>". The deck strategy was based on infinite recursive subgames.

That's a pretty funny "quit in disgust" win deck.
That is the card Shahrazad. The archetype I'm talking about is nowhere near as interesting, it just abuses spells and abilities that permanently reduce the attack power of a creature to slowly disable each enemy creature, then sit around being useless until either somebody breaks the stalemate or their opponent gets so pissed off at you for wasting half an hour of their time that they quit to find a new opponent who isn't such a shitheel.
  #266  
Old 11-16-2014, 11:47 PM
Hamlet Hamlet is offline
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Is the new expansion going to have a new solo adventure?
  #267  
Old 11-17-2014, 01:13 AM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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Nothing I've heard seems to suggest that, it appears to be just a big whack of new cards.
  #268  
Old 11-19-2014, 03:26 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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I'd like to get some opinions on this deck

Priest

2x Circle of Healing (+4 hp all minions)
2x Inner Fire
2x Power Word Shield
2x Northshire Cleric
2x Divine Spirit
2x Shadow Word Pain
2x Echoing Ooze
1x Ironbeak Owl
2x Knife Juggler
2x Shadow Word Death
1x Dark Cultist
2x Deathlord
2x Lightspawn
2x Holy Nova
2x Sludge Belcher
1x Temple Enforcer
1x Mind Control

The basic idea around this deck is to get some high health minions, lots of healing, and then some big hits with the right timing of inner fire.

I find the shadow words tend to be worth their while it pretty much all decks. Northshire cleric is the best 1-cost unit in the game IMO. If you get a lucky draw, you can get two of them out early and then start healing them for a whole lot of cards.

The power word shield/inner fire/divine spirit cards don't cost a lot of points, so with a good draw I've actually turned the clerics into powerhouses. You get one out there first turn, give them a power word shield on turn 2, and on turn 3 you can divine spirit and inner fire - now you've got a 10/10 unit who draws a card when healed. I've actually managed to pull this off 3 times in like 10 games with the deck.

Echoing ooze synergizes well with the priest buffs, since all the effects are doubled. I frequently get two 4-4 units (power word shield + inner fire), but I'm wondering if that's a waste of the potential of those buffs and I'd be better off with something else.

Deathlords are a risky card, and I only use them so far with priests. Both because they can heal them, and potentially having a 2/8 unit early on can be a huge opportunity with those buffs. You can potentially summon a death lord on turn 3, and then PW:S, DS, and IF him one turn 4, giving you a 20/20 unit. Even without that combination of buffs, you can easily have a 2/16 with taunt with DS alone, or 8/8 with taunt with IF alone, on turn 3 (coin + IF) or 4.

Circle of healing because I expect to have more high health minions worth healing than the enemy, and it synergizes well with the northshire clerics.

Knife Juggler just seems like a really useful 2 star card. It can synergize decently with the fact that I have a lot of 3-4 mana minions, and I would imagine echoing ooze would trigger two attacks.

The owl is just because silence comes in useful a lot, it's good to have at least one silence in your deck and I don't have the priest silence card.

Lightspawns synergize well with PW/S, DS, and healing.

Holy Nova seems like one of the best overall cards in the game to me, even without spellpower boosts. It damages all enemies, and heals all friendlies. There are a whole lot of times when it comes in handy.

Sludge Belcher has become my favorite taunt unit. Summoning a little sludge with taunt really helps you to control the middle rounds of the battle.

Temple enforcer just seems like good value at 6/6 + 3 health to another minion. I'd use two of them, but I don't have two of those cards. I may craft one.

Mind control can be a game changer if the game runs long, so I figured I'd have at least one in the deck.

So far I've only moved from level 20 to 17 with it, but I've won something like 8/10. I find it to be fun.

What do you guys think? What would you change?
  #269  
Old 11-19-2014, 04:02 AM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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Ah yes, the good old innerfire/divine spirit. We all go through this phase.

It works, but it's not reliable or consistent. The main problem with these sorts of decks is that against good decks, you can't keep anything on the board.

Most decks these days tend to either be able to put good minions on the board from turn 1 (a popular start is Undertaker + coin + Zombie Chow, turn 2 loot hoarder/Haunted creeper, turn 3 Dark Cultist for massive stats). Alternatively, they don't play the board in the beginning, but have ways to catch up from behind (control warrior shield slam/execute/fiery war axe/death's bite).

This causes problems for decks that can't put out quality minions from the start and snowball from there, or that can't come back from behind. For example, if you start with cleric on T1, T2 the warrior plays fiery war axe and takes out your cleric for free, and he still has one axe swing left to take out the Knife juggler that you're playing next. Bad. If you're matched up against Zoo, same thing against a T1 Flame imp (3/2). Even in your best case scenario, and your opponent was only able to drop a leper gnome on T1, and you take it out with your cleric and heal for a card for your T2, your opponent can now drop a 2 cost minion for his T2, and you're going into T3 with just a cleric against your opponent's 3/2 or worse.

The other thing about cleric based decks is the lack of card draw. Yes, you could have a board full of stuff and drop a circle of healing and draw a whole bunch of cards, but this is unlikely. You'd have to have a significant number of minions on the board to begin with, and in that case, you're already winning. As you go up in rank, you'll find that getting your minions to stick becomes harder and harder, and the less card draw you have, the longer you'll take to get your combo of divine spirit/inner fire to go off. I'd be surprised if you could get it off by turn 8 consistently with your current deck, I've made my own divine spirit/inner fire deck, it's full of card draw, and it still isn't as consistent as I would like.

The cards themselves are generally rather good, so I think you'll be fine for a while. The only suspect card I see is the echoing ooze - you don't have any good buffs for it, so I don't see why you're running it at all, much better to run 2 dark cultist, or yeti, or something to help you stay in the game while building your combo pieces.

If it's working for you now, that's great, but when it stops working, look at your play carefully and think about the 2 main points above. I'd also really recommend building a zoo deck, just to understand how that deck archetype is so consistent at getting and keeping the board, and if you can, a budget control paladin deck, to see how some decks can come back from behind and control the board.
  #270  
Old 11-19-2014, 06:58 AM
shijinn shijinn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
... Northshire cleric is the best 1-cost unit in the game IMO. If you get a lucky draw, you can get two of them out early and then start healing them for a whole lot of cards. ...
never go full Northshire Cleric. though if you haven't been bitten before, it would be fun to witness.
  #271  
Old 11-19-2014, 08:15 AM
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Yep I got them both out once and began regretting it almost immediately. And to make it worse my opponent was also a priest. He actually buffed one of them to make sure I couldn't kill it off. And he made sure to heal things every turn, Eben if it was me or one of my minions. Cards all gone real fast.
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  #272  
Old 11-19-2014, 06:31 PM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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Has anyone used this site to build arena decks? Is the advice good?

Tabby, what would you add to my deck for card draw? Thoughtsteal?

I'm probably going to switch out echoing ooze for something. I'm thinking about lightwardens, to increase the chance I have useful 1 mana cards at the beginning, and also because if I end up getting a few clerics and lightwardens on the board at the same time, one little heal can buff the shit out of my early game. Also planning to swap out the ironbeak owl for the priest silence when I get that card.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 11-19-2014 at 06:32 PM.
  #273  
Old 11-19-2014, 08:10 PM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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Arena value is very good. I also got a LOT of value out of watching Trump's VODs, if you want to learn how to draft and play arena.

https://www.youtube.com/user/TrumpSC
http://www.twitch.tv/trumpsc

Seriously, the resources this guy puts out is phenomenal. For arena, you'll want to look at the videos titled "Trump Cards", where he walks through the drafting and playing of an arena deck. There are also "interactive drafts", where he takes the time to value each of the cards and explain his picks. He explains a lot in general, which is very helpful.

You're just in time to catch his latest set of videos aimed towards new players, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kjt...YHaP9nC0Oc4Bq- It's pretty good, and teaches the basics of Hearthstone.

Lightwardens are kinda iffy due to 2 health, they're kinda easy to clear. If you're not an aggro deck (meaning you want to control the board and trade, and not just outrace your opponent) Zombie Chow is the best 1 drop available at the moment.
  #274  
Old 11-19-2014, 11:05 PM
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Quick question: How many of the really good players use aggro decks? I find that the wins or losses against those kinds of decks are simply a matter of luck (if I happen to draw a multiple damage card like Consecration or Swipe), and was wondering if I was missing a major point of skill involved in winning with them.
  #275  
Old 11-19-2014, 11:37 PM
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Tons of good players use aggro decks since they're fast to play, so you can rank up quickly. Playing an aggro deck against a non-aggro deck is pretty straightforward since your goal and your opponent goals are clear. You do need some experience and sense to place your units properly to cascade buffs, trade effectively to avoid AoE spells, set yourself up so that you can remove taunts without too much overkill, and do things in the proper order so no damage is wasted as so on. here is a reason why one player playing an aggressive hunter deck is at rank 10 and another is legendary rank 10. For example, I lost my first tournament game because on turn 4 I used Kill Command instead of Kill Command and Flare. I ended up using the Flare on an odd mana turn and didn't Steady Shot my opponent. I was 2 damage short of lethal on my final turn. I'm bad.

An aggro deck vs another aggro deck is pretty wacky since you need to do the same things and figure out if you're going to race your opponent or not.

Last edited by Palooka; 11-19-2014 at 11:38 PM.
  #276  
Old 11-20-2014, 03:03 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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I just beat a guy on my mana 5 turn with my priest character.

Turn 1. Mind vision. Copied coin.
Turn 2 - Use coin to summon deathlord
Turn 3 - he also summons a deathlord. I use shadow word pain to kill it. I receive a sludge belcher on the board. I have 1 leftover mana, which I use on inner fire, so so I now have an 8/8 Deathlord and 3/5 sludge. I attack with the both, he's at 19 hp.
Turn 4 - he summons another deathlord. I use my 8/8 deathlord to kill his 2/8 deathlord and gain a northshire cleric. I spend my mana on a lightspawn. I attack with the 8/6 deathlord and the 3/5 sludge. He has 8 hp.
Turn 5. Forget what he spawned - doesn't matter, didn't have taunt. Use divine spirit on lightspawn. Attack with 8/6 deathlord, 3/5 sludge, 10/10 lightspawn, leaving him at a hypothetical -13 hp on turn 5.

I didn't even use my full mana on turn 5 (didn't have to use any at all, since I didn't even need the lightspawn to kill him), and getting a northshire cleric out of his second deathlord was the worst possible result. Yet still crushed him in 5 turns. Anyone got that beat?

Last edited by SenorBeef; 11-20-2014 at 03:07 AM.
  #277  
Old 11-20-2014, 03:09 AM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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Truly, RNGesus smiles upon you. That must have been awesome!
  #278  
Old 11-20-2014, 03:12 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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I'm finding the deck I spelled out to be really fun so far. I know it's not going to take me too far, but with the right early cards I get some ridiculous domination. I only wish his second deathlord had given me a high value minion like temple enforcer or something so I could've left him at -25.

By the way, if anyone wants to fool around and play against each other, add me at SenorBeef#1394.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 11-20-2014 at 03:15 AM.
  #279  
Old 11-20-2014, 03:23 AM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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Yeah, games like that made me try to innovate my combo priest deck to make it more consistent, but... it just doesn't happen often enough to compete at even rank 10.

Hell, here's my wombo combo Priest deck.

2x Circle of Healing
2 Silence
2 Holy Smite
2 Inner Fire
2 PW:S
2 Northshire Cleric
2 Divine Spirit
1 SW: P
2 Wild Pyromancer
1 SW: D
2 Dark Cultist
2 Injured Blademaster
2 Shade of Naxxramus
2 Gnomish Inventor
1 Shadow Madness
1 Holy Nova
2 Sludge Belcher

Basically, cycle like the dickens, pop PW:S on the stealthed Shades when you can, silence the taunts, keep removing their board, coin + Injured blademaster, injured blademaster + circle is GOLD. Even better if you have an unanswered cleric on T1.

DS/DS/IF/ BAM

When it goes off, it is spectacular.
  #280  
Old 11-20-2014, 03:37 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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I'm going to give that a go. I took the second circle of healing for my deck, crafted a lightwarden, and added an injured blademaster. Gave up the two echoing oozes and mind vision.

What do you guys think of the deathlord? It's a very high risk card. When they kill it they could get Ragnaros, or they could get a novice engineer. I only use it with my priest, since with the healing and all my heal/hp buffs, I have a decent chance of keeping it alive. An instant death card like shadow word pain or execute still ends up screwing me. But having 2/8 with a taunt on turn 3 is so powerful. It keeps my clerics protected, and when I heal the deathlord every turn, the cards keep coming in.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 11-20-2014 at 03:41 AM.
  #281  
Old 11-20-2014, 03:44 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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As I say that, I just pulled off a turn 3 deathlord, turn 4 power word shield, divine spirit, inner fire. 20/20 on turn 4. I didn't even play cards on turns 1 and 2, and I've got a super overkill turn 5 win. Oh, and an idea. I crafted the priest silence spell, so I can silence my deathlord in the event that he's likely to die. Of course it's hard to predict one card removals. Two turns worth of cards played, -10 overkill on turn 5.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 11-20-2014 at 03:46 AM.
  #282  
Old 11-20-2014, 03:45 AM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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Ok, so here's a few tips.

turn 3 IBM + circle is often the best move. A 4/7 is really hard to deal with for most classes, and if for some reason you get the DS/DS/IF in hand, 28 damage whoop.

Watch the pyros. They're tricky, but key to keeping board control. Your opponent flooding the board? Pyro + PW:S + smite usually takes care of business. You can also use it to cycle a LOT of cards, if you have minions on the board. Play pyro, some other spell (deal 1 to all minions), COH - draw as many cards as there are minions - pyro procs and deals 1 to all minions, ready to COH again if you have it.

Shadow madness deathrattle minions if you can. If you can shadow madness a loot hoarder and suicide it into your opponent's minion, you get the benefit of the deathrattle. This is also good for dealing with sludge belchers.

If you ever face a twilight drake, drop a pyro and silence it. BAM! Always makes me smile. The rest of the taunts will still kill you though.


Keep shades in your mulligan if you can. Against hunter, priest you can often keep cleric and play it on T1, but never do so against Rogue, Shaman etc - basically the classes with early 3 damage. Losing your cleric without drawing any cards is often a death knell.

Keep holy smite against everyone except druid. You can't afford to let him snowball, and killing undertakers is key.

Think about when to suicide/trade your Dark Cultists. Often they are more important dead than alive, I'd rather have the buff on my sludges than have both minions be taken out by AOE and lose the buff.


EDIT: I find deathlords more trouble than they're worth. If they stay on the board, sure, you protect yourself and your combo piece against minions, but often the opponent has spell removal and you just gave your opponent tempo. If your opponent just runs their stuff into the deathlord, he isn't even good for the combo. Very inconsistent, I'd rather have the IBMs, which you can control and which are almost as good combo pieces.

Last edited by Tabby_Cat; 11-20-2014 at 03:48 AM.
  #283  
Old 11-24-2014, 10:24 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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Kel Thuzad seems extremely powerful. If you have some minions on the board, you can use them to kill the enemy minions and have your pop back to life even if the enemy has a removal card ready for him. If the enemy doesn't, you can pair him with a sludge belcher or the minion that has taunt and divine shield, and make it very difficult to kill the taunting unit and then Kel Thuzad on top of that. You can use some of the shaman resurrection abilities to get multiple Kelz going. You can use faceless manipulating to get two of them going at once making it very hard to kill both.
  #284  
Old 11-24-2014, 06:50 PM
Hamlet Hamlet is offline
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I finally built up a deck I like (Mage), and I've come to realize something. There are a ton of players who suck at playing Hearthstone.

I can now, without any legendary or epics, still win most games and many more of them against loaded decks than I had ever been before. There are just so many people with great decks, but absolutely no skill in playing. They're fun to beat.
  #285  
Old 11-24-2014, 07:58 PM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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I ran with KT for quite a while, but the problem with KT is that while he can turn a board into a win, if you have no board, he can't do anything. I started noticing that the games that went to turn 8+ and had KT in hand, he didn't do anything to help me win, I would have either won anyway, or had no board and he couldn't turn the game around. For that reason I dropped KT.

I have to say, though, if you have an unanswered Sludge Belcher or Sylvanas on the board and you drop KT, it's often enough for your opponent to concede right there.
  #286  
Old 11-26-2014, 01:59 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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What's the consensus on how big an advantage going first is?

I actually strongly prefer to go second with my priest deck. The extra card, and being able to re-draw the extra card really help me get off to a good start because getting the right cards early is so critical. I suppose for decks with a lot of similar cards where the order of the draw isn't as critical, like zoo decks, benefit more from going first.

Had a funny game just now. There was a wild pyromancer that went off and left 8 damaged minions on the field - 3 of his and 5 of mine. Among my minions were 2 northshire clerics and a lightwarden. He cast a circle of healing, healing all minions. I'm not sure if he realized what would happen, but I drew 8 cards (with like 5 of them getting destroyed) and my lightwarden ended up with like 15 attack after that, and I won easily on the next turn. The animation lasted over a minute easily.

Are there decks based around flooding the Shaman board with low value units and bloodlusting on turn 5, wrecking everything?

Last edited by SenorBeef; 11-26-2014 at 02:01 AM.
  #287  
Old 11-26-2014, 02:30 AM
shijinn shijinn is offline
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Never go full Northshire! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA-8h-jplec

going first is a big advantage, provided you can put a minion down on the first turn and then keep board control.

Last edited by shijinn; 11-26-2014 at 02:34 AM.
  #288  
Old 11-26-2014, 02:38 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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Ha, that's amazing. I've been too lazy to record my hearthstone games because I need to keep flipping shadowplay back to desktop record mode, and I alt tab a lot while playing which makes for poor videos.

I did just do a 32/32 death lord one hit victory on turn 5.
  #289  
Old 11-26-2014, 02:42 AM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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Going first has a small advantage for most classes, but interestingly this is reversed for certain classes like Rogue (who can take advantage of the fact that the coin is a spell, as well as an enabler for "combo" cards), and Priest (I have no idea why). These days, with Undertaker coin Leper Gnome, going second might have been given a slight boost, but I'm not sure.

http://hearthstone.blizzpro.com/2013...alks-the-coin/

There are certainly bloodlust decks, but they tend to be inconsistent. You would run cards like Haunted Creeper, Sludge Belcher, Spirit Wolves, Violet Teacher to get some sticky minions/tokens, and build totems on the board waiting for a big Bloodlust burst.

Actually, these decks tend to look like standard midrange Shaman decks, but with a copy of bloodlust.

http://www.gosugamers.net/hearthston...oodlust-shaman
  #290  
Old 11-26-2014, 09:42 AM
Deser2 Deser2 is offline
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A big part of why Priests have an easier time going second is because the majority of their cards are reactionary. The "Kill-Minions with 3/5 atk" cards need a body on your opponents side to work. You clerics need to get hit before you can take advantage of the card draw. Mind control needs a minion. etc.
  #291  
Old 11-26-2014, 02:41 PM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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I can't have fun playing rogues. They don't build up the board like every other class, there's not a natural feeling progression. You just sit there for your turn while they play card after card with various effects that are just annoying. Return your units to your hand, lots of damage out of nowhere, just... annoying. Gimmicky.
  #292  
Old 11-26-2014, 07:42 PM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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Sounds like Miracle Rogue. That's about par for the course - you have to keep in mind that they have a certain amount of damage and spells, and once he's out, he's out. Count the saps.

You might meet Control Warrior or Freeze Mage soon, that'll be a hoot.
  #293  
Old 11-27-2014, 06:00 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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Are there some useful neutral cards that are good with different kinds of decks that I should be aiming at crafting? I think I'd like to use faceless manipulator in a few decks for example. What should I be saving up my dust to craft to use for different playstyles?
  #294  
Old 11-27-2014, 07:24 AM
shijinn shijinn is offline
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with the new slew of cards next month, you might consider waiting until after the dust settles.
  #295  
Old 11-27-2014, 08:13 AM
Frylock Frylock is offline
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True but faceless manipulator seems like a sure bet. It's also quite fun to use.
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  #296  
Old 11-27-2014, 08:19 AM
shijinn shijinn is offline
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it is fun to use! faceless Ysera and then sheep it.
  #297  
Old 11-27-2014, 08:30 AM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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Faceless isn't used in many decks right now, though. It's a little slow for the meta, only really used in miracle rogue now for the south sea deckhand cold blood combo. Other than that.. Not even control warrior is running faceless now, it seems. What kind of deck are you thinking of? It's only 5 days to gvg, you might want to just wait a bit...
  #298  
Old 11-27-2014, 09:36 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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I'm currently playing an arena deck with the sea giant, and it seems REALLY easy to get him on the board, since it's 10-(total minions on battlefield) cost. Against a zoo deck you could get one on the board very early on. Is there a downside I'm not seeing?
  #299  
Old 11-27-2014, 12:14 PM
Turble Turble is offline
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I'm with those who suggest holding off a little while to do your crafting. You're about to experience the monthly reset where all the high level players are temporarily pushed back down to your level … the game will be very different until they gain their levels back.

When the new expansion opens it will be a totally different game with lots of different decks. Some cards that are very popular and useful right now may end up becoming pretty much unplayable after the update.

Personally, right now I wouldn't craft anything above a Blue and then only Neutral cards unless you are for some reason really committed to playing a certain class.

I don't often see Sea Giants being played. I sometimes run one in a Hunter deck where I can use Unleash the Hounds and/or Snake Trap so I am the one putting a bunch of minions out to lower its cost and at the same time being able to immediately remove the enemies small minions. I think it will often be a dead card in your hand if you are depending on the enemy to fill his board so you can play the Giant … and you really shouldn't be allowing him to get board control in the first place.

Faceless is one of those cards where I wish I had saved my dust. I haven't found it very useful – too slow/clunky, often causing me to make questionable plays trying to save the Faceless for a better opportunity. It's great when it works out but that just doesn't seem to happen very often.
  #300  
Old 11-27-2014, 01:02 PM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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Yeah, I find it really obnoxious that you won't be able to get the original set of cards through the arena anymore. I'm not going to start buying packs, because the arena is a lot of fun anyway, but now to get the old cards my only option is to craft them, which is shitty.

Their excuse of it being too complicated is incredibly dumb, and shows contempt for their audience. They could just do something like giving out card pack tokens from arena runs, and then you go to the card purchase page to decide which pack you want to buy. Not confusing at all.
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