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Old Yesterday, 11:26 AM
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How valuable would Greenland be to the United States?


Let's ignore for now how ridiculous it may look for the Trump administration to be expressing interest in buying Greenland from Denmark, or how much of a political non-starter it may be to the Danes.

How valuable is Greenland to Denmark and the US, and what price would it be worth to buy it for? Is it vaguely comparable to buying Alaska from Russia? It would give the U.S. a direct staging base in terms of the ongoing territorial issues with Arctic shipping lanes, potential fossil fuels in the Arctic, etc. What would a realistic buying price be?

Is having Greenland a source of great pride to Danes? How much does the Danish government or populace really care about Greenland - is it akin to a homeowner who has a lot of stuff in the garage he doesn't care about, but when someone wants to buy it, he suddenly can't let go?

Last edited by Velocity; Yesterday at 11:27 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 11:43 AM
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Can't the US just rent it for a while and see how it goes for everyone?
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Old Yesterday, 11:47 AM
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It's cold, and there's a lot of Lutherans there. Sorry, we don't want it - we already got Minnesota.

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Old Yesterday, 11:55 AM
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Where the hell is Minnesota?
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  #5  
Old Yesterday, 12:09 PM
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It's probably very valuable, with lots of natural resources (both discovered and undiscovered). This is an idea that, presuming the price was right, would be beneficial to the country, IMO. But it's got almost no chance of happening, largely because Greenland is self-governing, in my understanding. Maybe if we offered every single Greenlander $1 million dollars, they'd agree. I'm not sure if the "right" price is ~$55 billion.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; Yesterday at 12:10 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 12:09 PM
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https://www.gwern.net/Greenland

Seems like the Danes shouldn’t be quick to turn down $10 billion.
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Old Yesterday, 12:16 PM
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In the short term, not much. but when global warming takes full effect, it will be a paradise.

You'll be on your knees thanking trump when you have to move to GreenTrumpland.
  #8  
Old Yesterday, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
...or how much of a political non-starter it may be to the Danes.

... Is it vaguely comparable to buying Alaska from Russia?
The biggest difference is that Russia was an absolute monarchy and the popular will of the small population of Russian Alaska didn't factor in much if at all. And popular opinion in the rest of Russia would only have mattered if selling AK had been something that would generate a revolution (assuming the monarchy could even have conceived of that).

Greenland is now an 'autonomous country' part of the Kingdom of Denmark, a constitutional monarchy with essentially 100% of political power in the hands of the elected govt. Besides the legalities of whether the Danish govt actually retains the right to sell Greenland (I don't know) I would think it a complete political non-starter in Denmark to do so without the approval of Greenlanders, say in a plebiscite. There might be opposition in Denmark even if it was approved (especially less than overwhelmingly) in Greenland. Greenland independence is an active issue. There's a presumption in Danish politics of a right to self determination by Greenland.

Note that the US had an official agreement with Danish authorities outside Denmark giving the US control and responsibility for defense of Greenland from 1941 to the end of WWII (having de facto controlled it since 1940, after the German occupation of Denmark, via the US Coast Guard). In that sense it's maybe a smidgen less than a 100% crazy idea. But only a smidgen.

Last edited by Corry El; Yesterday at 12:23 PM.
  #9  
Old Yesterday, 12:32 PM
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People asked this question about the upper peninsula of Michigan after we conquered Ohio and stole it from them*. The mineral and forest wealth was more than enough to compensate for the gift of Toledo that we have to Ohio.

*some details may subject to interpretation
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Old Yesterday, 12:48 PM
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I bet Donald looked at a globe for the first time in his life, saw Greenland, and thought "Wow, it must be green there! I bet I could build golf courses there if the US owned it!"
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Old Yesterday, 01:03 PM
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It would be the obvious next step in the strategic encirclement of Canada.
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Old Yesterday, 01:13 PM
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https://www.gwern.net/Greenland

Seems like the Danes shouldn’t be quick to turn down $10 billion.
Danes have honour and integrity, for the most part, unlike some I could mention.
  #13  
Old Yesterday, 01:14 PM
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It would be the obvious next step in the strategic encirclement of Canada.
Shouldn't we buy the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans first?
  #14  
Old Yesterday, 01:48 PM
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Don't give him ideas.
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Old Yesterday, 01:52 PM
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Maybe if we offered every single Greenlander $1 million dollars, they'd agree. I'm not sure if the "right" price is ~$55 billion.
If getting Greenland only required a majority vote out of the 55,000 Greenlanders, then it wouldn't even need $55 billion. It could be "$1 million for every Greenlander who agrees to the deal" and then, you'd only need 51 percent of them to vote yes.

Although I think it might take more than a million dollars apiece to induce them to move out, but again, this is would be a reverse-bidding auction.
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Old Yesterday, 01:54 PM
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Who's the idiot who bought Trump Risk for his birthday?
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Old Yesterday, 02:10 PM
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People asked this question about the upper peninsula of Michigan after we conquered Ohio and stole it from them*. The mineral and forest wealth was more than enough to compensate for the gift of Toledo that we have to Ohio.

*some details may subject to interpretation
As an Ohioan, I learned that we lost the war and had to keep Toledo.

Last edited by k9bfriender; Yesterday at 02:11 PM.
  #18  
Old Yesterday, 02:14 PM
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The loser of the Toledo War was Wisconsin.
  #19  
Old Yesterday, 02:18 PM
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By now, the Danes and Greenlanders should be past their incredulity and well into derision. Anyone know of any good political cartoons, late-night comics, online snark etc. from there yet?
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Old Yesterday, 02:20 PM
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Danes have honour and integrity, for the most part, unlike some I could mention.
It isn't even the Danes to sell. Although part of the kingdom of Denmark, Greenland is an autonomous nation. It would be like trying to buy Canada from the UK.
  #21  
Old Yesterday, 02:37 PM
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It's cold, and there's a lot of Lutherans there. Sorry, we don't want it - we already got Minnesota.
Also, the invasion plans for Manitoba are almost ready for implementation.
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Old Yesterday, 02:41 PM
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Maybe we could trade Greenland for something of equal value, say, West Virginia? Ice for coal?

Or maybe the Danes could take South Dakota off our hands? Who needs it?
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Old Yesterday, 02:51 PM
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It would be like trying to buy Canada from the UK.
Speaking as a UK Doper, I think we'd be willing to take offers.
  #24  
Old Yesterday, 03:04 PM
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It would be the obvious next step in the strategic encirclement of Canada.
Thats not too far off, it would give the US two points of control for this side of the arctic ocean, plus a BMD location that does not depend on a flakey Canadian government and is able to project over western Europe.
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  #25  
Old Yesterday, 03:21 PM
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Why BUY it? Why not just take it? How many divisions does the King of Denmark have?

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I bet Donald looked at a globe for the first time in his life, saw Greenland, and thought "Wow, it must be green there! I bet I could build golf courses there if the US owned it!"
He was probably looking at a Mercator projection, and impressed by the island's size. It's bigger than Africa. Grab that sucker before she melts!

Last edited by Musicat; Yesterday at 03:25 PM.
  #26  
Old Yesterday, 03:24 PM
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Why BUY it? Why not just take it? How many divisions does the King of Denmark have?
Sounds good to me, so long as we promptly follow up by ceding all executive control to said King.

I'm not sure we should even give him any choice in the matter. "No takebacks!"
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Old Yesterday, 03:33 PM
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Why BUY it? Why not just take it? How many divisions does the King of Denmark have?
Given that the king died in 1972, probably not many.

Queen Margrethe II's Royal Danish Army is pretty small (12,500 active troops, plus 63,000 reservists), but they are a NATO member. Invoking Article 5 against the US would be, um, interesting.
  #28  
Old Yesterday, 03:49 PM
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Maybe Iceland should try to sell him Vinland.
  #29  
Old Yesterday, 04:27 PM
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With respect to US interests, buying Greenland is not the dumbest idea in the world. It has lots of natural resources and strategic importance to the US. Additionally, although Greenland says they can't be bought, currently they get a $500 million annual subsidy from Denmark. The US could easily make a sweeter deal.

The issue is (a) why this? why now? and (b) does Trump realize that Greenland is not a white country, but rather full of indigenous people who have a bunch of lefty political views?

I wouldn't mind if the US acquired Greenland but I would care if it came at the expense of virtually anything else.
  #30  
Old Yesterday, 04:37 PM
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Greenland is like Minnesota. It is populated by people who traveled incredible distances and suffered incredible hardships, never discouraged, never resting, until they found the only place on earth
SPOILER:
that was just as fucking miserable as the place they left.

(Stolen from some comedienne I can't remember).

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  #31  
Old Yesterday, 04:42 PM
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I'd be in favor of acquiring it, but only if it's the Mercator Projection version of Greenland.

It's bigger'n Africa! Damn!
  #32  
Old Yesterday, 04:49 PM
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never mind - joke already made.

Last edited by Hatchie; Yesterday at 04:50 PM.
  #33  
Old Yesterday, 04:53 PM
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With respect to US interests, buying Greenland is not the dumbest idea in the world. It has lots of natural resources and strategic importance to the US. Additionally, although Greenland says they can't be bought, currently they get a $500 million annual subsidy from Denmark. The US could easily make a sweeter deal.
Thanks, finally some serious responses. IF the price can be right - a very low price, in relation to the natural resources and geographic territory it provides - I don't see how much of the arguments against buying Greenland are any different than the ridicule of Alaska as "Seward's Folly" or "Seward's Icebox" back in the day; Alaska being a piece of land that has paid for its purchase price many times over.
  #34  
Old Yesterday, 05:01 PM
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The issue is (a) why this? why now? and (b) does Trump realize that Greenland is not a white country, but rather full of indigenous people who have a bunch of lefty political views?
Oh, it's extremely white, but only for another century or so.
  #35  
Old Yesterday, 05:02 PM
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Oh, it's extremely white, but only for another century or so.
It's usually shown as white on maps, which is probably good enough for him.
  #36  
Old Yesterday, 05:02 PM
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The REAL appeal, I think, is mostly because the US has only lost territory in the past few decades (specifically the Philippines). Trump likely adores the idea of being the first president to expand US borders in... a very long time. He'd have no interest in making them a state, and would shunt them to the side of American politics just like Puerto Rico or our other territories, but expanding territory? That's got some appeal.

However...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
With respect to US interests, buying Greenland is not the dumbest idea in the world. It has lots of natural resources and strategic importance to the US.
This is what makes this practical.

Consider this map: https://www.researchgate.net/profile...es-Walters.png

You might notice where a lot of those points are. And China is going to royally screw the USA in terms of rare earths if this trade war gets as protracted as it looks like it's going to.

I suspect he's excited about it for the first reason, but actually trial ballooning the idea because of the second. Not that I wouldn't believe it was a random reason alone... Who knows with that clown?
  #37  
Old Yesterday, 05:05 PM
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Thanks, finally some serious responses. IF the price can be right - a very low price, in relation to the natural resources and geographic territory it provides - I don't see how much of the arguments against buying Greenland are any different than the ridicule of Alaska as "Seward's Folly" or "Seward's Icebox" back in the day; Alaska being a piece of land that has paid for its purchase price many times over.
To be clear, I don't think Greenland will pay for its purchase many times over, or that there is any urgently compelling reason for the US to buy it. It is a not-terrible idea, and only that.
  #38  
Old Yesterday, 05:08 PM
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It isn't even the Danes to sell. Although part of the kingdom of Denmark, Greenland is an autonomous nation. It would be like trying to buy Canada from the UK.
No it wouldn’t. Canada has no such relationship with the UK, we just have the same Queen.
  #39  
Old Yesterday, 05:10 PM
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No it wouldn’t. Canada has no such relationship with the UK, we just have the same Queen.
But the Queen could sell you to us, right?
  #40  
Old Yesterday, 05:29 PM
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No it wouldn’t. Canada has no such relationship with the UK, we just have the same Queen.
Which is why it is such a perfect scam, like a much bigger Brooklyn Bridge. Sell the Queen's sovereign rights for $1 trillion and when United States comes crying to the UK that the Canadians refuse to recognize the authority of the President and demand its money back, Parliament can just shrug and say "yeah, they never listed to us either and no refunds." Giant win.

Not the U.S. would ever try and absorb Canada anyway. Even if you assume only the 10 full provinces got state recognition, you'd still be adding 20 Democratic senators and lord knows how many Democratic congressman. You'd reduce the Republicans to permanent minority status in the Senate for certain .

Last edited by Tamerlane; Yesterday at 05:32 PM.
  #41  
Old Yesterday, 05:44 PM
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This can only mean that deep in his version of a heart Trump knows climate change is real.

Or, as in the New Yorker mail today, he really thinks it is green.
(I was going to do the Mercator Projection joke also, but I read the thread first.)
  #42  
Old Yesterday, 06:30 PM
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This can only mean that deep in his version of a heart Trump knows climate change is real.
You could ask him why he's interested in Greenland when, by his own words, the climate is just going to "bounce back" again and Greenland will soon once again be covered by a mile-thick sheet of ice. Of course his response will be that Barack Obama was born in Kenya although he, Trump, has not ever made that claim himself, although you wouldn't believe what his investigators found down in Hawaii. The man just lives in his own delusions with no reference to the external inputs that we call "reality", including the idea that anything he replies should have some relationship to the question that was asked.

The typically astute Andy Borowitz suggests that maybe Denmark should buy the US, which actually makes a lot more sense as the US could then get the health care and educational systems that it so desperately needs (not to mention decent social services and maybe even rational gun control!).
  #43  
Old Yesterday, 06:40 PM
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The typically astute Andy Borowitz suggests that maybe Denmark should buy the US, which actually makes a lot more sense as the US could then get the health care and educational systems that it so desperately needs (not to mention decent social services and maybe even rational gun control!).
I, for one, welcome our new Danish overlords. Seriously, it would almost certainly be an improvement.


(And before anybody snarkily asks me why I don't just move there then, moving would involve having to bestir myself from a sitting position in a way being annexed wouldn't.)
  #44  
Old Yesterday, 06:41 PM
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This can only mean that deep in his version of a heart Trump knows climate change is real.

Or, as in the New Yorker mail today, he really thinks it is green.
(I was going to do the Mercator Projection joke also, but I read the thread first.)
Probably not Trump himself. He’s not intelligent enough to understand or care about the details of something like global warming. It wouldn’t surprise me, however, if big oil or big mineral interests are behind this move.
  #45  
Old Yesterday, 06:52 PM
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The typically astute Andy Borowitz suggests that maybe Denmark should buy the US, which actually makes a lot more sense as the US could then get the health care and educational systems that it so desperately needs (not to mention decent social services and maybe even rational gun control!).
I stayed in Copenhagen a few days before a cruise, and this works for me.

One thing not considered: if we piss off the Danes, no more Legos!
  #46  
Old Yesterday, 07:10 PM
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One thing not considered: if we piss off the Danes, no more Legos!
I think you've already done it!
  #47  
Old Yesterday, 08:16 PM
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One thing not considered: if we piss off the Danes, no more Legos!
Relax! My 9-year-old-nephew could replenish the US's supply (and Greenland's).
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Old Yesterday, 08:28 PM
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Why BUY it? Why not just take it? How many divisions does the King of Denmark have?melts!

How many divisions do Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Montenegro, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, and the United Kingdom have?
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  #49  
Old Yesterday, 08:42 PM
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Given how Puerto Rico, aboriginals and non-whites have been treated by Trump, I doubt if Greenlanders would be willing to become part of the USA.
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Old Yesterday, 08:56 PM
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Right, the idea of wanting control of Greenland is not something beyond consideration. The idea of just buying it, in 2019, is what's harebrained.

But now I want to see what SATWcomic.com will have to say about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
I, for one, welcome our new Danish overlords. Seriously, it would almost certainly be an improvement.
OK, let's run this one again and have it clear:

The Danes are the ones with Beer, Ham, Extreme Hardcore Porn, Vikings and Mermaids
The Dutch are the ones with Hashish, Cheese, Prostitution, Windmills and Tulips

Or is it the other way around?

Either one sounds damn good at this point, to be honest...

Last edited by JRDelirious; Yesterday at 08:57 PM.
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