Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 06-07-2019, 03:38 PM
Max S. is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
Why do you feel the need to belong to be affiliated with a political party?
I am only affiliated for the primary vote. The general election in my county tends to be something around 100% Republican. I think my county has elected exactly one Democrat in the past 25 years, the supervisor of elections, who just retired and was replaced with a Republican.

~Max
  #102  
Old 06-07-2019, 03:40 PM
Chisquirrel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
You can't be serious.

I'm not a democrat, but I'm as anti-republican as anyone, so by default that means I vote democrat a lot. But the democrats' focus on identity politics is counterproductive. Kids today - their grandparents got to march for civil rights. Their parents got to march for gay rights. They want some great social struggle too. Civil rights and gay rights were right and noble, and worth the work and sacrifice, but this generation wants their struggle too, so now we're fighting to the death over transgender bathrooms, and next up, whether being an otherkin is worthy of legal protection. You might think the last thing is a joke, but you aren't tuned in to the "social justice warrior" vibes if you do.

Some of their motivations are possibly noble - they want to have their own good fight for justice - and some motivations are just vanity - they like pretending they're oppressed or that they're victims for one reason or another. But we're making a bigger deal about progressively less important issues, and all it practically does is alienate people who think you're going too far.

But the democrats seem to embrace this unimportant, divisive, losing shit - and you know why? Because they're owned by the same corporations the republicans are, they just present a less corrupt, less insane version. So the democrats don't want to market themselves on the obvious - to solve the issue of money being the dominant (and nearly only) factor in political power, to empower unions and the labor movement, to put checks on the power of large and powerful corporations, to basically do anything to improve the economic interest of poor people at the expense of the rich.

So instead of taking that winning route, that the vast majority of this country would benefit from and probably agree with, they instead focus on bullshit "identity politics" issues to try to sell themselves as being different from republicans without pissing off their rich masters.

There are a whole fucking lot of people who wish democrats would stop talking about transgender bathrooms and trigger warnings and would start talking about working class people and empowering labor and returning us to being a democracy .
Yeah, because it's not like Democrats are passing bills regarding campaign finance reform and preventing voter disfranchisement, promoting the strengthening of unions, or rein in the power of corporations.

In comparison, North Carolina Republicans started the transgender bathroom fight. The reply is as before - if that's what you think the Democratic Party is actually doing, you're not paying attention.
  #103  
Old 06-07-2019, 03:45 PM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 9,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
There are a whole fucking lot of people who wish democrats would stop talking about transgender bathrooms and trigger warnings and would start talking about working class people and empowering labor and returning us to being a democracy .
Is it not possible to do both at the same time? Protecting people and making sure that they're treated with dignity isn't pointless identity politics. Labor rights and human rights don't stand in opposition to each other.
  #104  
Old 06-07-2019, 04:04 PM
tomndebb is offline
Mod Rocker
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: N E Ohio
Posts: 40,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomndebb View Post
The (Democratic) House has passed over 200 pieces of legislation that McConnell has refused to allow to come to a vote in the Senate.
If you want to quibble that that is only the House and not the full Congress, you are technically correct, but your response made it appear that you were ignorant of the actual situation.
Sorry, finger slipped. 200 should have said 100 Totsl over 100, but many were resolutions, procedural matters, etc.
They have still been very active until they run into McConnell's "kill it if it came from Democrats" actions.
  #105  
Old 06-07-2019, 05:15 PM
Miller's Avatar
Miller is offline
Sith Mod
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Bear Flag Republic
Posts: 43,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
You can't be serious.

I'm not a democrat, but I'm as anti-republican as anyone, so by default that means I vote democrat a lot. But the democrats' focus on identity politics is counterproductive. Kids today - their grandparents got to march for civil rights. Their parents got to march for gay rights. They want some great social struggle too. Civil rights and gay rights were right and noble, and worth the work and sacrifice, but this generation wants their struggle too, so now we're fighting to the death over transgender bathrooms, and next up, whether being an otherkin is worthy of legal protection. You might think the last thing is a joke, but you aren't tuned in to the "social justice warrior" vibes if you do.
It's interesting that you describe fighting for gay rights as "right and noble," and immediately turn around and piss all over the concept of trans rights. What do you feel is the distinguishing feature that makes fighting for the rights of one tiny and abused minority a good thing, and fighting for the rights of a different tiny and abused minority a stupid waste of time? How did you respond, in the early 2000s, to the regressive voices on the left who argued that fighting for marriage rights was a waste of time that distracted the Democrats from real issues and lost them elections? Why do you feel those objections are not applicable to your own regressive views on trans rights?

Quote:
Some of their motivations are possibly noble - they want to have their own good fight for justice - and some motivations are just vanity - they like pretending they're oppressed or that they're victims for one reason or another. But we're making a bigger deal about progressively less important issues, and all it practically does is alienate people who think you're going too far.
Are you arguing that trans people are not oppressed in American society? That they are not frequently the targets of oppression and violence?

Quote:
So instead of taking that winning route, that the vast majority of this country would benefit from and probably agree with, they instead focus on bullshit "identity politics" issues to try to sell themselves as being different from republicans without pissing off their rich masters.
Do you have any idea how "trans bathroom access" became a thing in the first place? Are you aware that it exists entirely as a reaction to Republicans using trans people as a target to whip up bigotry in their base and drive their voters to the polls? Are you aware that this is basically exactly how the gay marriage debate (which, again, you described as "right and noble") got started?

Quote:
There are a whole fucking lot of people who wish democrats would stop talking about transgender bathrooms and trigger warnings and would start talking about working class people and empowering labor and returning us to being a democracy .
Yeah, and not long ago, there were a whole lot of people who wished democrats would stop talking about gay rights, and focus on what "really" matters. And before that, there were a lot of people who wished the democrats would stop talking about black rights, and focus on what "really matters." What makes your position here fundamentally different from theirs?

Also, why are you talking about the gay rights movement in the past tense? Are you under the impression that gay rights are no longer under threat politically in this country? And why are you not including trans rights under the broader gay rights umbrella?
  #106  
Old 06-07-2019, 06:06 PM
Sherrerd's Avatar
Sherrerd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,685
Quote:
Originally Posted by choie View Post
Third-party followers loooove to cut off their noses to spite their face.

"I'm taking a stand on my pet issue--fighting baby seal hunting! I don't care if I know this 3rd-party candidate has no chance in hell! I don't care if Party A (which is wildly in favor of killing seal pups and grinding them up) wins, because Party B (whose platform includes a bill to stop seal hunting) is not perfect and pure!"

And when Party A wins by a measly margin that would've probably been erased if the 3rd-party candidate voters hadn't flounced and thrown away their vote, and as the president-elect holds up a baby seal carcass at a cheering rally yelling Club those seals! Club those seals!, and he subsequently names a buddy of his as Secretary in Charge of Protecting Baby Seals--a friend who just so happens to run the billion-dollar Deadsealco conglomerate, and after some months, the shores are glutted with carcasses of dead baby seals...

They shrug their shoulders. "See?" they tell Party B people and various desolate organizations dedicated to protecting marine life. "That's what you get for not listening to us."

So, uh, yeah. Good luck with that.
I'll join in the praise for this post. Like John Mulaney's "horse in the hospital" analogy, it has the potential to get through to people who are otherwise holding their hands over their ears.
  #107  
Old 06-07-2019, 06:24 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 25,657
Maybe they're just sorta emulating Judge Smails? "I'll get nothing and like it!"


Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 06-07-2019 at 06:24 PM.
  #108  
Old 06-07-2019, 06:37 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 40,541
Quote:
Originally Posted by choie View Post
Third-party followers loooove to cut off their noses to spite their face.

"I'm taking a stand on my pet issue--fighting baby seal hunting! I don't care if I know this 3rd-party candidate has no chance in hell! I don't care if Party A (which is wildly in favor of killing seal pups and grinding them up) wins, because Party B (whose platform includes a bill to stop seal hunting) is not perfect and pure!"

And when Party A wins by a measly margin that would've probably been erased if the 3rd-party candidate voters hadn't flounced and thrown away their vote, and as the president-elect holds up a baby seal carcass at a cheering rally yelling Club those seals! Club those seals!, and he subsequently names a buddy of his as Secretary in Charge of Protecting Baby Seals--a friend who just so happens to run the billion-dollar Deadsealco conglomerate, and after some months, the shores are glutted with carcasses of dead baby seals...

They shrug their shoulders. "See?" they tell Party B people and various desolate organizations dedicated to protecting marine life. "That's what you get for not listening to us."

So, uh, yeah. Good luck with that.
Excellent analogy. And exactly what happened in 2016.
  #109  
Old 06-07-2019, 08:10 PM
Ronald Raygun is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
There are a whole fucking lot of people who wish democrats would stop talking about transgender bathrooms and trigger warnings and would start talking about working class people and empowering labor and returning us to being a democracy .
You do realize that trans people actually exist, right? That we exist in the real world and not just on Reddit and Twitter? I've been physically assaulted in a restroom, and I've only been out for about two years. And this assault just happened around the corner from me. You're going to lecture trans people about the working class and the labor movement? Really? Where do you think the vast majority of us stand politically?

Write us off at your own peril.
  #110  
Old 06-08-2019, 01:18 AM
SenorBeef is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller View Post
It's interesting that you describe fighting for gay rights as "right and noble," and immediately turn around and piss all over the concept of trans rights. What do you feel is the distinguishing feature that makes fighting for the rights of one tiny and abused minority a good thing, and fighting for the rights of a different tiny and abused minority a stupid waste of time? How did you respond, in the early 2000s, to the regressive voices on the left who argued that fighting for marriage rights was a waste of time that distracted the Democrats from real issues and lost them elections? Why do you feel those objections are not applicable to your own regressive views on trans rights?
The more outside the mainstream something is, the more political and social capital you have to spend to try to normalize and protect it. The harder people will fight against it. Was the fight worth it for blacks, given that they were literally being lynched and beaten and otherwise blatantly oppressed, at around 13% of the population? Yes. Was it worth it for gays? Probably. The democrats didn't fight nearly as hard for that one as civil rights - old people died and young people became older and hating gays just sort of slipped away. It's not like the democrats really changed the tone on that one - Obama wasn't even pro gay marriage until after the culture shift happened, and the change happened primarily through judicial rather than legislative action.

What are the number of trans people? Something like 0.25% maybe? Apparently a little over half a percent of people identify as trans, but from personal experience at least half of them are fashionably trans, and don't actually have a body dysphoria. Oh, I know, you probably find that very thought repugnant, but if you actually interact with the SJW/tumblr/internet trans community you'd see a lot of them just want to be edgy and fit in and get in people's faces, and clearly don't actually suffer a medical problem. So, then, how much political capital is it worth to stop the rather soft (compared to civil rights blacks) oppression against us? Enough to make concessions on income inequality, labor rights, or anti-imperialism/warmongering movements?

And if we win the battle for trans rights, what then? Do we find another oppressed class? What if we find one that's only .01% of the population? How much political capital and legislative agenda should we spend on them? At some point you'd agree that it becomes an inefficient use of political resources, at which point someone holier than you can come in and say "oh you regressive monster, how dare you allow wolfkin oppression!"

Quote:
Are you arguing that trans people are not oppressed in American society? That they are not frequently the targets of oppression and violence?
Not nearly to the degree that black people were in the 60s and before, no. Their oppression is much less pressing, and their numbers much smaller.

Quote:
Do you have any idea how "trans bathroom access" became a thing in the first place? Are you aware that it exists entirely as a reaction to Republicans using trans people as a target to whip up bigotry in their base and drive their voters to the polls? Are you aware that this is basically exactly how the gay marriage debate (which, again, you described as "right and noble") got started?
Oh, I know, it's a republican tool to whip up their base. And by making a big deal out of it, you're playing their game, making it into a cultural battle about things they're uncomfortable with instead of changing the narrative to win them over on areas of their own self interest, like economic interests. The democrats should have a message that would easily appeal to conservatives - we're trying to change the economy to help the vast majority of people - but instead they focus on things that alienate those people and are losing issues like identity politics and gun control. Things that are far less pressing to preserving our way of life and any semblance of democracy we have left.

Quote:
Yeah, and not long ago, there were a whole lot of people who wished democrats would stop talking about gay rights, and focus on what "really" matters. And before that, there were a lot of people who wished the democrats would stop talking about black rights, and focus on what "really matters." What makes your position here fundamentally different from theirs?
You're drawing absolute, philosophical lines. I'm operating on practical considerations. Using your logic, we should spend infinite effort fighting the tiniest oppressions, otherwise you're as bad as any oppressor, right? Whereas I'm actually weighing the real world figures. How much political capital is it worth expending to fight (rather soft) oppression of 0.25% of the population? What about 0.0001%? At some point you'd agree with me that the costs aren't worth the results, you're just drawing the line further than I am and acting all holier than thou about it.

And yes, we made a lot of progress in a hurry on gay rights. Fantastic. What else have democrats done? This country has more wealth inequality than it ever has. Labor is the weakest it's been in a century at least. Public policy almost never lines up with public desires. Our government is not really a democracy. Is that all worth gay marriage?

Gay rights, trans rights, identity politics as a whole is theater - it's one of those wedge issues that allows democrats to differentiate themselves from republicans without actually working towards the good of the average person in the US. It gives them something to rally up their base without displeasing their rich masters.

Quote:
Also, why are you talking about the gay rights movement in the past tense? Are you under the impression that gay rights are no longer under threat politically in this country? And why are you not including trans rights under the broader gay rights umbrella?
We're suffering a backlash of a dying generation seeing change happen too fast for them, and you have to wonder how much of this backlash comes from moving too quickly on social changes. It's not as though society changed from 90% anti-gay to 90% pro-gay overnight. Rather, it started shifting from 70/30 to 60/40 to 50/50 to 40/60 - once we crossed that threshold, pro-gay courts and laws came into effect. But the people who are still butthurt about it are making it known in a rather extreme way. I'm not saying that this necessarily was a tradeoff that was made - but would getting gay marriage around 2012 instead of 2022 worth Trump?

What do trans rights have to do with gay rights? Why would they be under the same umbrella?

Edit: I'm not saying that trans rights aren't valid and aren't a real fight. It is. But we're living in a world where civilization has a significant risk of dramatically changing for the worst within our lifetimes because of an ongoing environmental disaster. Kids these days are unable to go to college without a lifetime of crippling debt and may never own a home. Workers are treated more and more disposably. Health care access is something that is becoming a luxury for the rich. These things are much easier wins than trans rights, much more important wins than trans rights, and should have a thousand times the focus of trans rights. And we're not making progress towards any of them. So go ahead and pat yourself if you win a costly victory on trans rights while the rest of the world goes down the toilet.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 06-08-2019 at 01:22 AM.
  #111  
Old 06-08-2019, 02:11 AM
Chisquirrel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
The democrats should have a message that would easily appeal to conservatives - we're trying to change the economy to help the vast majority of people - but instead they focus on things that alienate those people and are losing issues like identity politics and gun control. Things that are far less pressing to preserving our way of life and any semblance of democracy we have left.
You keep repeating this when it's already shown to be incorrect. Why?
  #112  
Old 06-08-2019, 02:19 AM
Lord Feldon's Avatar
Lord Feldon is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 6,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chisquirrel View Post
In comparison, North Carolina Republicans started the transgender bathroom fight.
Yeah, as far as I know, the only major politician in recent years who actually campaigned on transgender bathroom access was Pat McCrory, a Republican, who lost among the same electorate that voted for Donald Trump by 3 points.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 06-08-2019 at 02:22 AM.
  #113  
Old 06-08-2019, 03:02 AM
SenorBeef is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chisquirrel View Post
You keep repeating this when it's already shown to be incorrect. Why?
What significant policies that disfavor the rich and favor everyone else have the democrats passed in the last, oh, 30 years?

Sure, you can point to bills they tried to pass and never got anywhere - and they may have actually tried to legitimately pass such things - but who knows? Maybe it's like the Republican charade where they tried to repeal the ACA 50 times for show. The medicaid expansion as part of the ACA is the only thing I can think of. The ACA itself as a whole really wasn't destructive towards the rich and existing profiteers in the insurance industry.

At best, you can say the democrats are wildly incompetent. Aside from a small minority, I'm leaning more towards it all being theater.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 06-08-2019 at 03:05 AM.
  #114  
Old 06-08-2019, 06:14 AM
bobot's Avatar
bobot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 8,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
What significant policies that disfavor the rich and favor everyone else have the democrats passed in the last, oh, 30 years?

....
The affordable care act. (And it's the Republicans who won't stop talking about people and bathrooms, not the Democrats. You could at least be right about the reasons Democrats bother you.)
  #115  
Old 06-08-2019, 06:26 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Land of Smiles
Posts: 19,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
The more outside the mainstream something is, the more political and social capital you have to spend to try to normalize and protect it. The harder people will fight against it. Was the fight worth it for blacks, given that they were literally being lynched and beaten and otherwise blatantly oppressed, at around 13% of the population? Yes. Was it worth it for gays? Probably. The democrats didn't fight nearly as hard for that one as civil rights - old people died and young people became older and hating gays just sort of slipped away. It's not like the democrats really changed the tone on that one - Obama wasn't even pro gay marriage until after the culture shift happened, and the change happened primarily through judicial rather than legislative action.
... So, then, how much political capital is it worth to stop the rather soft (compared to civil rights blacks) oppression against us? Enough to make concessions on income inequality, labor rights, or anti-imperialism/warmongering movements?

And if we win the battle for trans rights, what then? Do we find another oppressed class? What if we find one that's only .01% of the population? How much political capital and legislative agenda should we spend on them? At some point you'd agree that it becomes an inefficient use of political resources, at which point someone holier than you can come in and say "oh you regressive monster, how dare you allow wolfkin oppression!"

... The democrats should have a message that would easily appeal to conservatives - we're trying to change the economy to help the vast majority of people - but instead they focus on things that alienate those people and are losing issues like identity politics and gun control. Things that are far less pressing to preserving our way of life and any semblance of democracy we have left.
...
And yes, we made a lot of progress in a hurry on gay rights. Fantastic. What else have democrats done? This country has more wealth inequality than it ever has. Labor is the weakest it's been in a century at least. Public policy almost never lines up with public desires. Our government is not really a democracy. Is that all worth gay marriage?

Gay rights, trans rights, identity politics as a whole is theater - it's one of those wedge issues that allows democrats to differentiate themselves from republicans without actually working towards the good of the average person in the US. It gives them something to rally up their base without displeasing their rich masters.
...
Edit: I'm not saying that trans rights aren't valid and aren't a real fight. It is. But we're living in a world where civilization has a significant risk of dramatically changing for the worst within our lifetimes ... So go ahead and pat yourself if you win a costly victory on trans rights while the rest of the world goes down the toilet.
I endorse this message. The future of this country will be settled by ordinary Pennsylvanians, including some homophobes and gun nuts, disgruntled by their poor economic circumstances. Some D's are campaigning as if they're in an alternate reality.

Of course, my defense of SenorBeef is not meant to suggest that Rilchiam has the slightest clue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rilchiam
the way the Dems are so hell-bent on impeaching Trump, they're not accomplishing anything.
  #116  
Old 06-08-2019, 07:26 AM
WillFarnaby's Avatar
WillFarnaby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 4,973
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
More than a few Democratic candidates are campaigning against the drug war and mass incarceration (which can indeed go hand in hand to a point). And Democrats are overwhelming in favor of letting ex-felons vote (and some are in favor of letting current felons vote). There are a few who are against foreign despotism and foreign wars.

And of course both disagree on the type of high government spending and entitlements.

So that analysis seems very simplistic (at best).
Yes the analysis ignores rhetoric and instead looks at policy. Democrats are either as culpable or more culpable for every policy I listed.
  #117  
Old 06-08-2019, 08:28 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 9,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
And yes, we made a lot of progress in a hurry on gay rights. Fantastic. What else have democrats done?
Asks the guy who had to think long and hard about whether to support the candidate who had the best chance of beating Trump.

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...hlight=hillary

When Democrats had control of the White House and the Congress, they actually accomplished a lot. Their policies had a lot to do with the current economic expansion. They passed healthcare reform. They would have done more if more idiots hadn't inexplicably sat out the 2010 elections and given this country right back to the party whose policies are always disastrous.
  #118  
Old 06-08-2019, 11:46 AM
kaylasdad99 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 31,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rilchiam View Post
QuickSilver, it's just backing up on me, the way the Dems are so hell-bent on impeaching Trump, they're not accomplishing anything. Whoever gets the nomination next year will be running solely to beat Trump, not because they want the job for its own sake.
JFTR, that IS a good enough reason to give the Democratic candidate your vote (in EVERY race, as it happens, unless the incumbent is neither a Democrat nor a Republican [or worse]).
  #119  
Old 06-08-2019, 11:49 AM
kaylasdad99 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 31,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
There is nothing more important than getting rid of Trump. Nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rilchiam View Post
I don't agree, and that's why I'm leaving.
Can you provide a few examples of what CAN be accomplished if getting rid of the America-hating fuckstick* ISN'T accomplished?

Or even just one?

*(And the rest of the entire Republican Party, while we're at it.)

Last edited by kaylasdad99; 06-08-2019 at 11:52 AM.
  #120  
Old 06-08-2019, 12:00 PM
kaylasdad99 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 31,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Post #20 mentioned a lot of things the House has passed. But not Congress. Since, you know, Congress has two houses.
It appears, then, that speaking of "the Democratic Congress" amounts to nothing more than gibberish. As if anything else should be expected from the America-hating fuckstick.
  #121  
Old 06-08-2019, 05:30 PM
Chisquirrel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
What significant policies that disfavor the rich and favor everyone else have the democrats passed in the last, oh, 30 years?

Sure, you can point to bills they tried to pass and never got anywhere - and they may have actually tried to legitimately pass such things - but who knows? Maybe it's like the Republican charade where they tried to repeal the ACA 50 times for show. The medicaid expansion as part of the ACA is the only thing I can think of. The ACA itself as a whole really wasn't destructive towards the rich and existing profiteers in the insurance industry.

At best, you can say the democrats are wildly incompetent. Aside from a small minority, I'm leaning more towards it all being theater.
"The fact that the Democrats are trying and getting shut down by Republicans is proof the Democrats aren't doing anything and won't stop talking about bathrooms!"

Feel free to keep ranting at clouds, but I'm still going to be pointing and laughing when you realize that isn't rain falling on your face because "both sides are the same".

Last edited by Chisquirrel; 06-08-2019 at 05:31 PM. Reason: Added a nut
  #122  
Old 06-09-2019, 05:07 PM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Land of Smiles
Posts: 19,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip View Post
Perhaps he merely meant that you should apply your knowledge with greater force, to ensure that it gets into the minds of those trying to resist it?
I see what you did there.
  #123  
Old 06-10-2019, 02:53 PM
TimfromNapa is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Jones View Post
Can you point to an area, on the doll, where the Party hurt you?
I almost feel like I should not be laughing at that, but I can't help myself.
  #124  
Old 06-11-2019, 12:37 AM
Kimstu is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 22,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
And yes, we made a lot of progress in a hurry on gay rights. Fantastic. What else have democrats done? This country has more wealth inequality than it ever has. Labor is the weakest it's been in a century at least. Public policy almost never lines up with public desires. Our government is not really a democracy. Is that all worth gay marriage?
This is a pretty naive take on the factors affecting the success of various liberal causes. It's not that Democrats and liberals in general (especially the growing contingent of Democratic Socialists) haven't been supporting worker-friendly and environment-friendly policies at least as strongly as so-called "identity politics" causes such as gay and trans rights.

No, it's that the "cultural" causes like minority rights are the only ones that don't get massive pushback from the American corporate establishment and other wealthy elites.

Modern plutocrats mostly don't care about denying rights to minorities, but they care a great deal about not increasing the power and autonomy of workers, or social safety nets for the non-wealthy, because that might interfere with their undemocratic exercise of power. So the so-called "identity politics" causes are the ones where liberal support actually entails some genuine progress, because wealthy elites mostly have little interest in trying to sabotage them.

And naive people interpret that to mean that the "identity politics" causes are the only ones that Democrats/liberals are actually supporting, and blame Democrats/liberals for the lack of progess on the other types of causes. Open your eyes and take a look at who the opposition is.

Last edited by Kimstu; 06-11-2019 at 12:37 AM.
  #125  
Old 06-11-2019, 12:39 PM
Jackmannii is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: the extreme center
Posts: 31,624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max S. View Post
I am only affiliated for the primary vote.
That's the sole good reason for party affiliation in my book.

In 2016 I changed my registration to Republican, making it possible to vote against Trump in the Ohio presidential primary. There was little downside, except now I'm getting fundraising letters from Ivana Trump.
  #126  
Old 06-11-2019, 04:12 PM
ElvisL1ves is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 49,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackmannii View Post
That's the sole good reason for party affiliation in my book.
Good, because it's the only time it ever matters in the US system.
  #127  
Old 06-11-2019, 09:03 PM
snoe is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,345
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
Good, because it's the only time it ever matters in the US system.
Nitpick: I can think of another time, at least. It provides data to political campaigns (general or primary) as they decide whether and how to target you with ads, canvassing, etc.
  #128  
Old 06-11-2019, 09:47 PM
Max S. is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoe View Post
Nitpick: I can think of another time, at least. It provides data to political campaigns (general or primary) as they decide whether and how to target you with ads, canvassing, etc.
The grand old party sends me a reminder to vote in the general election, although the supervisor of elections already sends me a reminder.

Oddly enough, the GOP only reminds me to vote in the general election while the supervisor of elections gives me dates for the primaries and instructions to obtain a sample ballot too.

I haven't gotten any fundraising solicitations, but I'm sure it is just luck...

~Max
  #129  
Old 06-11-2019, 09:59 PM
Kent Clark's Avatar
Kent Clark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 25,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoe View Post
Nitpick: I can think of another time, at least. It provides data to political campaigns (general or primary) as they decide whether and how to target you with ads, canvassing, etc.
I get plenty of ads, direct mail, canvassing, email, etc. from both Democrats and Republicans. And the NRA. And I don't even live in a swing state! Or own a gun.

I think all anyone needs is to show a passing interest in politics online, and we're in everyone's crosshairs.
  #130  
Old 06-12-2019, 01:41 PM
John_Stamos'_Left_Ear is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rilchiam View Post
QuickSilver, it's just backing up on me, the way the Dems are so hell-bent on impeaching Trump, they're not accomplishing anything. Whoever gets the nomination next year will be running solely to beat Trump, not because they want the job for its own sake.
Do you like always like to wear your ignorance like a shiny crown, or is this new?
Quote:
"Leader McConnell has turned the Senate into a legislative graveyard for priorities the American people care about,” Senate Democratic Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) said.

McConnell grinned at the characterization that House bills were going nowhere in the Senate.

“I think that’s pretty accurate, yeah,” he told The Times.

Democrats flush with a new House majority after nearly a decade in the minority are sending over a rash of bills most political watchers believe have little chance of passing the Senate, such as universal background checks for gun purchases, net neutrality, climate change, congressional ethics, expanding voter access, raising the minimum wage and more.

Los Angeles Times
But yeah, the Democrats are only talking about impeachment.

But even as McConnell laughs, he appreciates your support.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:40 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017