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Old 06-09-2019, 07:14 PM
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Buddhism and Loneliness


I’m not really sure how Buddhism helps deal with feelings like this. The responses I get range from:

“The cause are mental fabrications that fabricate loneliness. Stop fabricating mental fabrications that fabricate loneliness. In your case, if you’re using social media to ease loneliness, it’s like postponing the resolution of suffering to a latter date. Instead of focusing on the cause of your loneliness, you’re focusing on social media. You think you need social media to ease loneliness. In reality you most probably don’t need social media … you just need to get rid of loneliness. Once you’ll get rid of loneliness, you’ll probably stop spending time on social media.

What you’re experiencing is normal suffering due to loneliness. Psychologists will tell you it’s normal as long as it does not interfere negatively on your physical or mental health. Most people do something to ease feelings of loneliness (make new friends, read, do sports, watch TV, ..). But that’s not curing loneliness. It’s like having a disease and alleviating its symptoms. This is no different than being depressive and drinking alcohol to ease the depression. Off course it’s not dysfunctional as drinking alcohol, but the mechanism is the same: you suffer, and instead of resolving your main problems which are the cause of your suffering, you’re postponing their resolution to a later date.”

To this: https://tricycle.org/magazine/at-home-with-yourself/

Or this: https://www.lionsroar.com/six-kinds-of-loneliness/

It’s like it’s either a disease or some aspect of our being. The tricycle one is the only one with a bit of kindness that offers some aid.
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Old 06-09-2019, 08:06 PM
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One of the bits of wisdom that I have been able to extract from Buddhism (that isn't reflected in the religion I was raised into--Christianity) is that change is inevitable. Things might get worse for you, but they will likely also get better for you if you hold on long enough. That includes feelings of loneliness.

Loneliness is something I only experience when my hormones are fucked up and I can't go to sleep. I actually experience every single negative emotion you can think of (except for anger) during these moments. I will be laying bed with only my super negative thoughts to keep my company, feeling like utter shit. But in the back of my mind is a voice reminding me that the feelings are temporary. They'll be gone once I finally fall asleep and wake up. Holding onto this is truth helps me to keep it together.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:01 PM
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I'm not particularly mentally healthy. I have my issues. I'm aware of them, I work on them everyday. I'm alone alot. It's me and the pets. I love my life style, I'm comfortable in it. Being alone does not equate 'loneliness'.
I have recently reached out and found purchase in a new kind of friend (no it's not imaginary). I've had to trust in a different way. It's been eye-opening. I'm here to tell you, quit studying your navel and make a step outside your comfort zone. The world is full of people.
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:52 PM
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“The cause are mental fabrications that fabricate loneliness. Stop fabricating mental fabrications that fabricate loneliness. In your case, if you’re using social media to ease loneliness, it’s like postponing the resolution of suffering to a latter date. Instead of focusing on the cause of your loneliness, you’re focusing on social media. You think you need social media to ease loneliness. In reality you most probably don’t need social media … you just need to get rid of loneliness. Once you’ll get rid of loneliness, you’ll probably stop spending time on social media.

What you’re experiencing is normal suffering due to loneliness. Psychologists will tell you it’s normal as long as it does not interfere negatively on your physical or mental health. Most people do something to ease feelings of loneliness (make new friends, read, do sports, watch TV, ..). But that’s not curing loneliness. It’s like having a disease and alleviating its symptoms. This is no different than being depressive and drinking alcohol to ease the depression. Off course it’s not dysfunctional as drinking alcohol, but the mechanism is the same: you suffer, and instead of resolving your main problems which are the cause of your suffering, you’re postponing their resolution to a later date.”

But stuff like the above makes it seem like wanting to have friends is feeding some kind of addiction or forestalling the progress that you make with curing your "illness". They liken loneliness to a disease.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:25 AM
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Like I am pretty sure they are saying (at least in the quoted aspect) that we are the one's who fabricate our own loneliness.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:32 AM
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Like I am pretty sure they are saying (at least in the quoted aspect) that we are the one's who fabricate our own loneliness.
We do, inasmuch as the feelings of loneliness are generated by the thoughts that spring out of own minds. Loneliness is not inevitable. Two people can experience the same aloneness, but only one come away feeling lonely. How else do you explain this phenomenon if we aren't fabricating our own loneliness?

I think you may be giving "fabricate" some extra meaning that isn't warranted. It doesn't mean the feeling isn't "real".

I think that much of that quote is a bunch of sanctimonious poppycock, by the way. There's nothing wrong with treating the symptoms of a problem before treating the problem itself. Indeed, I think it's kind of important to treat the symptoms first because it can take a really long time to cure the problem. There's a reason why people who are in physical therapy for an injury also take painkillers. And sometimes curing the problem isn't possible. I agree that social media is probably not the best way to treat the feelings of loneliness, but physical activity (going to the gym, taking long walks/hikes, doing yoga...) is a pretty good way. So is doing anything that exposes you to "positive people energy", like going to concerts and the theater. Social media is like treating hunger with junk food. You'll feel momentary satisfaction by consuming it, but it lacks the substance needed to be sustainable. It also has the potential to make you feel worse than how you started, if you aren't careful.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:04 AM
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Try joining a couple of activity clubs and stick with it until you're one of the regulars. You'll meet people doing something that interests you, and get invites and tips on related stuff. Soon, you'll be running into, if not friends, at least acquaintances all over the place. Choose which acquaintances you'd like to develop into friends, but go slow, don't smother them. That goes double if you're looking for romance. Take all the time that's needed.

Bingo, loneliness gone.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:28 AM
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You can't incorporate Buddhist thought by copying and pasting. You require guidance and teaching. It's not something that automatically works. It requires discipline that you have to practice and learn. It's the same reason you can't become proficient at playing the piano by copying piano scores.

If there's a Buddhist temple in your area, sign up for meditation. You'll take your first step in overcoming loneliness by being among other people who are also looking for answers. Through your lessons, you'll get a better sense of how powerful your lone self can actually be.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:40 AM
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You can't incorporate Buddhist thought by copying and pasting. You require guidance and teaching. It's not something that automatically works. It requires discipline that you have to practice and learn. It's the same reason you can't become proficient at playing the piano by copying piano scores.

If there's a Buddhist temple in your area, sign up for meditation. You'll take your first step in overcoming loneliness by being among other people who are also looking for answers. Through your lessons, you'll get a better sense of how powerful your lone self can actually be.
Thing is the teachers don't explain things so much as assume them to be true and to me much of their kindness is more of a "bird's eye" and doesn't seem to match reality much.

It's more like I have this idea that Buddhism is special in some manner and therefor I just take what they say to be true without really thinking about it being so (ironic since Buddha specifically said not to do that). I know some people who did Buddhism but came out worse for it, not better. TO be honest I personally don't buy into much of what they say or their proof of it. I don't have an exact response to it, just this notion or intuition that they aren't quite right.

I also don't think the lone self is powerful at all, in fact humans are quite weak on their own. Much of their achievements and success comes from being able to work together.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:41 AM
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I also don't like how you think loneliness is something to overcome. That's part of the problem, when you treat a genuine human need as a disease.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:42 AM
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I also don't like how you think loneliness is something to overcome. That's part of the problem, when you treat a genuine human need as a disease.
Fine. Embrace loneliness then.
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Old 06-10-2019, 03:14 PM
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I suspect that you’re overthinking things. Remember, over-thinking does not lead to insight. I find few answers in religion, but I suspect that your religion of choice is better suited than most to deal with this very issue. Or, I can give you one possible conclusion right here. “Nothing is as important as we think it is when we think about it.” Alternately, you could take a cue from Scarlett in “Gone with the Wind” : “I can’t think about that right now. If I do, I’ll go crazy. I’ll think about that tomorrow”. There are many other paths, as well, but I suspect you will not take any of them - finding out why that is migh be the most worthwhile insight for you to pursue.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:46 PM
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I suspect that you’re overthinking things. Remember, over-thinking does not lead to insight. I find few answers in religion, but I suspect that your religion of choice is better suited than most to deal with this very issue. Or, I can give you one possible conclusion right here. “Nothing is as important as we think it is when we think about it.” Alternately, you could take a cue from Scarlett in “Gone with the Wind” : “I can’t think about that right now. If I do, I’ll go crazy. I’ll think about that tomorrow”. There are many other paths, as well, but I suspect you will not take any of them - finding out why that is migh be the most worthwhile insight for you to pursue.
It’s more like I just believed them because it’s “Buddhism”, and that’s pretty much it. Not because my experience mirrors what they say.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:10 PM
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It’s more like I just believed them because it’s “Buddhism”, and that’s pretty much it.


Could you tell us which minute you were born so that we can mark it off the list?
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:23 PM
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I also don't like how you think loneliness is something to overcome. That's part of the problem, when you treat a genuine human need as a disease.
Oh, you made a thread about this, too. Guess I'll weigh in here too, though I might not add much.

As best I can tell the Buddhist notion is that if you want something, anything, then that's a bad thing, on account of the fact you might not get it and disappointment is all sad and stuff. Rather than risk ending up sad you should just want nothing, because you can't be disappointed if you want nothing and you can't fail if you never try.

They also argue that you can cure your sadness about not having something by not wanting it anymore. Basically sour grapes but you really mean it - you really *don't* care anymore.

And they're sort of right, and sometimes it's a good thing to abandon a wish. There was a woman I wanted to marry. She didn't want to marry me. Life was better when I managed to get my desire for her to die.

But abandoning all wants is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. It's okay to like things, and it's okay to seek the things you like. Sometimes you have to give up, but not always. It's a matter of circumstance.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:31 PM
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And they're sort of right, and sometimes it's a good thing to abandon a wish. There was a woman I wanted to marry. She didn't want to marry me. Life was better when I managed to get my desire for her to die..
That's a tad harsh...oh, you meant your desire was better dead.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:35 PM
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That's a tad harsh...oh, you meant your desire was better dead.
Er, yeah. I tried to put the termination of my desire in the harshest of terms and the english language exploited its ambiguities to turn me into a murderer. I think that language has it out for me.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:55 PM
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+1 to Beckdawrek's advice to get out and meet/discuss with REAL people in person. Listen 90% and reply 5% and ask questions 5%.

Barring that (which you seem so opposed to), head over to somethingawful.com where there's several threads in the Ask/Tell forum that deals with Buddhism. Be sure to wear your big boy shorts though. If you think anyone here is brutal, it's nothing compared to what's posted there.

That said, a couple of points.

First, you may think you're being highly philosophical and presenting deep thoughts, but you're like a 10 year old asking about quantum physics and when told A, B, C, you say "I KNOW THAT!". Then when told D, E. F, you say "I don't care about that. Tell me about X, Y, Z!"

Second, hate to break it to you, but no one here is your friend, peer, counselor or mentor. While many try to genuinely be helpful, you don't know who's being sincere and who's just playing with you. You really don't know about anyone you don't know personally. For all you know, I could be a 15 year old white girl who embellishes stories from my friends grandparents.

Third, taking anything posted on any forum as the absolute truth or fact is one step above the guy saying "I did it because the voice in my head told me too!"
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Old 06-11-2019, 04:34 AM
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The irony is that if you do find someone that answers your questions to your satisfaction, you'll think you've met God on the road and will follow him/her.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:45 PM
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Thing is the teachers don't explain things so much as assume them to be true and to me much of their kindness is more of a "bird's eye" and doesn't seem to match reality much.

It's more like I have this idea that Buddhism is special in some manner and therefor I just take what they say to be true without really thinking about it being so (ironic since Buddha specifically said not to do that). I know some people who did Buddhism but came out worse for it, not better. TO be honest I personally don't buy into much of what they say or their proof of it. I don't have an exact response to it, just this notion or intuition that they aren't quite right.

I also don't think the lone self is powerful at all, in fact humans are quite weak on their own. Much of their achievements and success comes from being able to work together.
OK, if you're so skeptical about Buddhism, why did you turn to it to combat loneliness?

If you really want to overcome this problem, you have to be willing to change your mindset. You seem to already have a preset answer to any suggestion, rife with cynicism and reasons why you can't do it. This is a difficult problem and easy answers don't exist. You already think humans need to work together, so find some humans to work with.
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:17 PM
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+1 to Beckdawrek's advice to get out and meet/discuss with REAL people in person. Listen 90% and reply 5% and ask questions 5%.

Barring that (which you seem so opposed to), head over to somethingawful.com where there's several threads in the Ask/Tell forum that deals with Buddhism. Be sure to wear your big boy shorts though. If you think anyone here is brutal, it's nothing compared to what's posted there.

That said, a couple of points.

First, you may think you're being highly philosophical and presenting deep thoughts, but you're like a 10 year old asking about quantum physics and when told A, B, C, you say "I KNOW THAT!". Then when told D, E. F, you say "I don't care about that. Tell me about X, Y, Z!"

Second, hate to break it to you, but no one here is your friend, peer, counselor or mentor. While many try to genuinely be helpful, you don't know who's being sincere and who's just playing with you. You really don't know about anyone you don't know personally. For all you know, I could be a 15 year old white girl who embellishes stories from my friends grandparents.

Third, taking anything posted on any forum as the absolute truth or fact is one step above the guy saying "I did it because the voice in my head told me too!"
I went to the site but there was nothing there.
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:34 PM
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OK, if you're so skeptical about Buddhism, why did you turn to it to combat loneliness?

If you really want to overcome this problem, you have to be willing to change your mindset. You seem to already have a preset answer to any suggestion, rife with cynicism and reasons why you can't do it. This is a difficult problem and easy answers don't exist. You already think humans need to work together, so find some humans to work with.
I have a complicated relationship with it. It's not that I have a problem with it. Sometimes I get lonely and sometimes I'm not even when I am alone. But my problem is that instead of something that just happens and comes and goes, Buddhism makes it seem like something is wrong with me and that it's some disease to cure.

I also don't think humans need to work together I KNOW they have to. A human infant is pretty much proof on how much we rely on each other.
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Old 06-11-2019, 03:59 PM
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I went to the site but there was nothing there.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3548558


Edit: Best to register because sometimes the site won't allow you view the forum posts. Don't know why.

Last edited by lingyi; 06-11-2019 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 06-11-2019, 04:14 PM
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I have a complicated relationship with it. It's not that I have a problem with it. Sometimes I get lonely and sometimes I'm not even when I am alone. But my problem is that instead of something that just happens and comes and goes, Buddhism makes it seem like something is wrong with me and that it's some disease to cure.
Simple answer. It's because you're not Englightened and not Buddha!
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Old 06-11-2019, 04:36 PM
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Reminds me of when my second sister became a Christian and immediately after when she wasn't hit with a ray of light and uplifting of all her woes said, "Okay, what now?".

Ummm...doesn't work that say Sis!
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:34 PM
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I have a complicated relationship with it. It's not that I have a problem with it. Sometimes I get lonely and sometimes I'm not even when I am alone. But my problem is that instead of something that just happens and comes and goes, Buddhism makes it seem like something is wrong with me and that it's some disease to cure.
The "problem" you have with buddhism is that you think it has inherent credibility, for no apparent reason. You give it unjustified credence that isn't doing you any favors.

When Buddhism tells me that I should give up on hope and become zen with having nothing, I can just roll my eyes and go back to doing productive things like arguing on the internet. You seem not to be able to look away.
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:52 PM
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Back in my mentally unwell days, I thought Buddhism spoke to me too. The idea that my suffering was the result of wanting too much kind of appealed to me. I didn't want my suffering to be the result of chemical imbalances and neurological misfirings. I needed for it be an illusion so that I could be a female ubermensch--someone able to endure anything just by having the right mindset. I could never be that person if my brain was fucked up. But if I could see the illusion for what it is, nothing could ever hurt me.

But then I read some tracts and started smelling the "sage on a mountain top" bullshit.
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:47 PM
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https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3548558


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Considering that my life took a nosedive since I looking into Buddhism out of pure curiosity I'm going to say no. Oddly enough most of my daily suffering can be attributed to Buddhism.

Especially with Titles like "the myth of freedom" :https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Freedom-...ywords=trungpa

All that serves to do is screw me up even further.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:34 PM
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If you find the water so distasteful stop going to the well!

You very clearly have serious problems with most every facet of Buddhism. Often taking established concepts and applying to them an interpretation entirely individual and unique to yourself.

If Buddhism is such an obvious bad fit for you, then why do you insist on looking there for answers?
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:40 PM
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https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3548558


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Registering costs $10.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:00 PM
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If you find the water so distasteful stop going to the well!

You very clearly have serious problems with most every facet of Buddhism. Often taking established concepts and applying to them an interpretation entirely individual and unique to yourself.

If Buddhism is such an obvious bad fit for you, then why do you insist on looking there for answers?
I think it's more like seeing them for what they are.

The thing is that it is hard to forget about them saying things like "there is no self", "the world is an illusion", "or that freedom is a myth".
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:02 PM
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I'm not a Buddhist, but I've read a few books on the subject and found them intriguing. I do recall one of the central ideas being that all suffering is born of desire. That struck me as undeniably true, yet not all that useful. You can learn to let go of certain specific desires--for a particular person, place, or thing--but there are fundamental underlying desires--to be loved, to be safe, to have some measure of control over your life--that we can't just enlighten our way out of. It's interesting to compare this to the thread about whether the atheist worldview is depressing, in which several people seem to think that, regardless of the truth of the matter, it's comforting and therefore useful to believe in something.
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:34 PM
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It’s more like I just believed them because it’s “Buddhism”, and that’s pretty much it. Not because my experience mirrors what they say.
I think following any religion or philosophy blindly will result in frustration. And lead to more serious psychological problems.

Why don't you stop trying to figure out religions and figure out yourself?

You're putting a lot of pressure on a philosophy, expecting it to be he perfect solution to every problem you have.
I wish you could stop agonizing over why Buddhism doesn't magically fix you, and just enjoy life.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:17 AM
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I think following any religion or philosophy blindly will result in frustration. And lead to more serious psychological problems.

Why don't you stop trying to figure out religions and figure out yourself?

You're putting a lot of pressure on a philosophy, expecting it to be he perfect solution to every problem you have.
I wish you could stop agonizing over why Buddhism doesn't magically fix you, and just enjoy life.
I would love to more than anything. If I could I would just forget Buddhism and leave everything about it behind, because it hasn't done me any favors in this life. Alas that is not the case and it haunts me. Sort of saying that X is wrong or not true or you should be pursuing perma happiness. It just feels like they make it seem that not listening to them is a mistake and you are wrong for it.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:46 AM
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To quote from the forum that was linked on here:

"However, this is still something important to consider. Buddhism is very much so a religion, rather than a simple philosophy. There are many great secular purposes that can be derived from buddhism- Psychology for example has recently found a ton of copacetic values within much of buddhist practise, or is arriving at what buddhism has been doing for centuries. Still, buddhism requires a good bit of practise and study, and it is more than a philosophy because it fulfills a spiritual role, soteriology and supernatural concepts aside buddhism is a praxis by which we arrive at abnegation of ego-differentiated self. It is a vehicle for mystic experiences as any long-term buddhist practioner will assure you. The great trouble here is what has been the biggest weakness of buddhism- It is a monastic faith at it's heart. This means that among the laity a sort of "low" religion has emerged- You do things that make a good buddhist just because that's what you do. You give food to monks and lamas, you say a few prayers, and that's that. But these trappings and material clingings all have a purpose as a means of engaging the mind in certain activities. Take the tibetan prayer wheel for instance: On the surface you turn it and that gives you good merit, which means a better birth. But deeper than that, the wheel is a praxis by which you engage in the mental experience of having prayed without the activity of prayer, it is useful for not only illustrating the divide between participation and agency, but as well encourages that ego-death state by means of a tacit participation in compassion practise.

The faith is built entirely around the idea that all that we percieve, and experience is mediated, often greatly, by language and learned or assumed concepts that have become a deep part of out intellectual processes: Cognition and Emotion. The mystic attainment in buddhism is that which allows one to enter a psychological state of consciousness capable of affording participation in an unmediated world. The mediated world, it is argued, leads to cognitive and emotive processes that are not ultimately desireable reactions to the stimuli of the world. The question of these religious trappings in relation to attaining this psychological ego-death is that many of means we might use to reach this unmediated state are forms and methods that are themselves mediators of the world. The low religious, or lay, application of this high religious pursuit becomes the application of those means which are ding-fur-sich: sometimes linguistic means like koan, sometimes cognitive ablations like mantra recitation, sometimes tactile methods of conditioning such as mala. It is generally acknowledge that the most efficient vehicle for attaining this kind of ego-death in any permanence is still that of meditation- the conditioning of the mind to guide it towards conditioning ego-death as a default measure to ensure a finality in the assumption of that mental-psychological state. However those means which function as ding-fur-sich do so and are done with the understanding that their practise and encouragement conditions the end-goal of nonmediated participation. Often buddhism avoids this kind of deep analytical discourse because it is not usually itself one of those means which encourages those conditions, being a linguistic and conceptual construction of dialectic that is reliant upon the assumption of those learned concepts that lead to mediated, rather than unmediated, participation. The dialectic becomes that which reifies mediative-mind."

It's stuff like that which makes me lose sleep at night and wish I could just forget.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:55 AM
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Why did you latch on to this particular worthless idiotic bullshit to obsess over instead of some other worthless idiotic bullshit? Don't you realize that it is all just gibberish mental masturbation by people with way too much free time on their hands?



It is better than being a conspiracy theorist, at least, I guess.
  #37  
Old 06-12-2019, 12:34 PM
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I have a complicated relationship with it. It's not that I have a problem with it. Sometimes I get lonely and sometimes I'm not even when I am alone. But my problem is that instead of something that just happens and comes and goes, Buddhism makes it seem like something is wrong with me and that it's some disease to cure.
Maybe what you copied and pasted gave you that idea, but you're not properly experiencing Buddhist practice. Buddhism knows everyone has flaws and problems. They teach you how to cope with them without diagnosing you. You're resorting to the cynical mindset and coming up with reasons why you can't again. That needs to change.

Go to a temple some day and sit in on a sermon. They welcome all faiths and disparage no one. You get to go barefoot. You think what you're doing now is better?
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:40 PM
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To quote from the forum that was linked on here:

[quote snipped]

It's stuff like that which makes me lose sleep at night and wish I could just forget.
Well that was a large pile of words, mostly large complicated words that try to sound important. When I read that (before my eyes glaze over) I find myself translating the terms from their original pompous psychobabble to equivalent pragmatic terms. For example that "ego-death" stuff is typically attained by doing drugs - but they think it's cooler if you can mediate your way into a drug-addled state without the drugs, apparently because it lasts longer (and presumably is cheaper).

This stuff isn't being psychologically elevated, it's staring at your hand because have you ever really looked at your hand, man? Woah.

I did get a bit of amusement from the fact that you quote was basically complaining about the lay people doing it all wrong and how if you ain't getting properly stoned you ain't doin' it right. I'm pretty sure either they or the lay people they're complaining about are being hipsters; I'm just not sure which.
  #39  
Old 06-12-2019, 02:10 PM
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Another thing OP: What you're doing is using Buddhism like Web MD. You're searching through databases and collecting text. That won't work. It's like thinking you can do home repair by watching the YouTube. You have to actually have some experience doing home repair first.

You should actually go to a service and experience it as a culture. You'll get more of an understanding on how practitioners make Buddhism part of their lives, and how they see forsaking of material goods as relieving themselves of burden. Plus, you'll be with other people. That's the result of overcoming loneliness in the first place.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
Maybe what you copied and pasted gave you that idea, but you're not properly experiencing Buddhist practice. Buddhism knows everyone has flaws and problems. They teach you how to cope with them without diagnosing you. You're resorting to the cynical mindset and coming up with reasons why you can't again. That needs to change.

Go to a temple some day and sit in on a sermon. They welcome all faiths and disparage no one. You get to go barefoot. You think what you're doing now is better?
I did once, years ago. It was about the same as what I am saying now. I think Buddhism puts in reincarnation so that people don't take suicide as the logical step to their depression premises.

I don't think Buddhism knows the conclusion of what it is saying, I still don't know how they get love and compassion but that is another matter. Mostly what they say is that my life is a lie.
  #41  
Old 06-12-2019, 02:58 PM
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Another thing OP: What you're doing is using Buddhism like Web MD. You're searching through databases and collecting text. That won't work. It's like thinking you can do home repair by watching the YouTube. You have to actually have some experience doing home repair first.

You should actually go to a service and experience it as a culture. You'll get more of an understanding on how practitioners make Buddhism part of their lives, and how they see forsaking of material goods as relieving themselves of burden. Plus, you'll be with other people. That's the result of overcoming loneliness in the first place.
Except they were wrong. I sat in on one and the relieving of material goods is not relieving myself of burden but essentially casting out stuff that has meaning too me. I'm sorry they view such things as burdens, but they were never that to me. As a culture it looks to me that if your experience doesn't match theirs then you are deluding yourself or you just don't get it.

All my current issues stem from when I first read about Buddhism, and I never really recovered from it. I want to ignore it, but I just find it hard to argue against what they say. It's like everything I do is "Wrong" and if I want to be "right" I have to follow them. It sounds like other religions to me.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:55 PM
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Especially that part about the "myth of freedom", reminds me of the free will debate.
  #43  
Old 06-12-2019, 10:07 PM
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Which I think he means that there is no point in chasing desires since achieving them won't make you happy and you'll feel like crap if you don't ever get to reach them. Depressing really.
  #44  
Old 06-13-2019, 08:25 AM
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I think you need to get your hands on a Nintendo DS, play some Mario Kart, get your head outta this stuff. Do that for 21 days. Unless, again, you like being miserable, and don’t want to give that up. In which case, I strongly suggest you never light up a cigarette.
  #45  
Old 06-13-2019, 09:40 AM
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I did once, years ago. It was about the same as what I am saying now. I think Buddhism puts in reincarnation so that people don't take suicide as the logical step to their depression premises.

I don't think Buddhism knows the conclusion of what it is saying, I still don't know how they get love and compassion but that is another matter. Mostly what they say is that my life is a lie.
You went to an actual temple, got barefoot, attended a service, hated it, and STILL research it?

OK, it's obvious you just want to bitch. End result, you're still lonely.
  #46  
Old 06-13-2019, 11:17 AM
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I think you need to get your hands on a Nintendo DS, play some Mario Kart, get your head outta this stuff. Do that for 21 days. Unless, again, you like being miserable, and don’t want to give that up. In which case, I strongly suggest you never light up a cigarette.
The thing is that I tried to do that and it just triggers this stuff again.
  #47  
Old 06-13-2019, 11:18 AM
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You went to an actual temple, got barefoot, attended a service, hated it, and STILL research it?

OK, it's obvious you just want to bitch. End result, you're still lonely.
Not really hated but more like it was just that if you didn't have the same reaction then you don't get it. It's like other practices I did in the past that yielded nothing and the blame was put on me.

But the ideas and what they say still sticks to me because I don't know what to say about it. Like the "myth of freedom". I try to carry on and leave them behind, but they still haunt me.
  #48  
Old 06-13-2019, 11:54 AM
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The OP loves wallowing in self-pity and Buddhism fills that need handily. It's not you that's messed up (BTW, it IS YOU that's messed up), but the world!
  #49  
Old 06-13-2019, 12:08 PM
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Especially that part about the "myth of freedom", reminds me of the free will debate.
I love a good free will discussion, but I'm not sure you'd like what I have to say about it. As a compatiblist, what I say we have, you probably wouldn't call free will, and me discussing it would probably just make you even more depressed!
  #50  
Old 06-13-2019, 02:05 PM
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Try Brazilian jiu jitsu, Machinaforce.

Google BJJ academies in your area, pick whichever has the best reputation, and sign up for a (usually totally free!) first week of classes.

Yes, yes, yes, this is wildly off-topic - but that's the point. I think you need something else than (your idea of) Buddhism to occupy your mind for a little while. BJJ will do that.
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