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Old 04-11-2019, 04:41 PM
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Move over Louie Gohmert, there's a new idiot in town.


Ladies and Gentlemen, may I introduce to you the Congressman from Kentucky, Rep. Thomas Massie.

The video is a five minute interaction between Sec. John Kerry and Rep. Massie. In the conversation, Massie does not understand that a political science degree is a liberal arts discipline. He points out, correctly, that the average atmospheric CO2 level has been far higher, including during the age of mammals. But, he does not understand that CO2 levels were significantly higher is because of geologic activity millions of years ago.

The most shocking part is that Massie thinks he totally owned Kerry during the exchange. How does a man this stupid manage to get into a position of authority?
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Old 04-11-2019, 04:59 PM
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He's not actually dumb. He has a BS and MS engineering degrees from MIT.

There's something else going here that includes but is not limited to academic snobbery.
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Old 04-11-2019, 05:00 PM
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Ladies and Gentlemen, may I introduce to you the Congressman from Kentucky, Rep. Thomas Massie.
...How does a man this stupid manage to get into a position of authority?
There seems to be an insatiable appetite for Stupidity among Republican voters.
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Old 04-11-2019, 05:02 PM
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I'm not sure the party that keeps re-electing Hank Johnson to GA-4 has a lot of moral high ground from which to sneer at the stupidity of other parties' voters.
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Old 04-11-2019, 05:07 PM
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He's not actually dumb. He has a BS and MS engineering degrees from MIT.

There's something else going here that includes but is not limited to academic snobbery.
Wait a minute. Massie has advanced degrees from MIT yet does not understand varying carbon levels in geologic timeframes? Seriously?

So you're saying that what we may have here is an MIT engineer scoffing at a Yalie's liberal arts degree having the word "science" but not being a real science?

I did not look into Massie's credentials, I admit. I am stunned to hear that he has such a prestigious education. Did he maybe hit his head on the way to the committee room?
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Old 04-11-2019, 05:20 PM
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I'm not sure the party that keeps re-electing Hank Johnson to GA-4 has a lot of moral high ground from which to sneer at the stupidity of other parties' voters.
The party that elected, and still supports Trump, has no place to criticize anyone regarding stupidity. Or really anything else for that matter.
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Old 04-11-2019, 05:23 PM
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I'm not sure the party that keeps re-electing Hank Johnson to GA-4 has a lot of moral high ground from which to sneer at the stupidity of other parties' voters.
I gather the main objection to Johnson is a 'Guam tipping over' remark, and the concept that the remark was serious and literal (and therefore the product of stupidity) is held or dismissed according to party lines. I further gather that Johnson has had health problems which, before being resolved, resulted in some slowness of speech.

But on the GOP side we have the aforementioned Louie Gohmert, Massie, and so many others, past and present: Paul Broun, Devin Nunes, Todd Akin, Jim DeMint, Michelle Bachmann, Steve King....what an embarrassment of riches! Tales are still told of the astonishing dim-bulbery of Dan Quayle. Heck, of the four last GOP Presidents, only one had a reputation for having made it into that third-digit range of IQ.

Of course there is a lot of subjectivity in these assessments, but how many Republicans would want to bet cash on the outcome of an impartial administration of a reliable IQ test to the current Congress--specifically, on the mean-score-by party?

Last edited by Sherrerd; 04-11-2019 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 04-11-2019, 06:00 PM
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I'm not sure the party that keeps re-electing Hank Johnson to GA-4 has a lot of moral high ground from which to sneer at the stupidity of other parties' voters.
Nah, actually, we're pretty good. You can tell, because we can post some new bit of jaw-dropping stupidity from Republicans pretty much every day, and you still have to go back almost a decade for your counter.
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Old 04-11-2019, 06:36 PM
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I'm not sure the party that keeps re-electing Hank Johnson to GA-4 has a lot of moral high ground from which to sneer at the stupidity of other parties' voters.
Have there been a lot of stories eaten up by left wingers how Hank Johnson said really dumb things, but his followers are led to believe that those stupid comments are actually Mr. Johnson totally owning some conservative?

I canít wait to see your examples.
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Old 04-11-2019, 06:50 PM
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Nah, actually, we're pretty good. You can tell, because we can post some new bit of jaw-dropping stupidity from Republicans pretty much every day, and you still have to go back almost a decade for your counter.
I guess I could have posted Maxine asking the bank CEOs about student loan programs the other day, about a decade after the federal government took over student lending, but Johnson's concern about Guam capsizing is such a classic moment in history that I couldn't resist.
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Old 04-11-2019, 06:53 PM
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I guess I could have posted Maxine asking the bank CEOs about student loan programs the other day, about a decade after the federal government took over student lending, but Johnson's concern about Guam capsizing is such a classic moment in history that I couldn't resist.
Your guy thinks windmill noise causes cancer.

As long as you support him, you have no credibility in this area and thusly I snicker at the attempt.
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:09 PM
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I guess I could have posted Maxine asking the bank CEOs about student loan programs the other day, about a decade after the federal government took over student lending...
Itís a shame Betsy DeVosí meetings arenít televised.
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:20 PM
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Wait a minute. Massie has advanced degrees from MIT yet does not understand varying carbon levels in geologic timeframes? Seriously?
He probably does understand, but he believes, correctly, that his constituents don't, and will think that his obvious sophistry is actually a cogent argument.
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:22 PM
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So you're saying that what we may have here is an MIT engineer scoffing at a Yalie's liberal arts degree having the word "science" but not being a real science?
This is a big chunk of it. Academic snobbery with a healthy mix of libertarian douchebaggery.

But he's not dumb.
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:41 PM
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I'm certainly noticing the pattern HD is trying to establish.
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Old 04-11-2019, 09:01 PM
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I guess I could have posted Maxine asking the bank CEOs about student loan programs the other day, about a decade after the federal government took over student lending, but Johnson's concern about Guam capsizing is such a classic moment in history that I couldn't resist.
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It’s a shame Betsy DeVos’ meetings aren’t televised.
Betsy DeVos thinks "Some students can learn better with larger classes, with more students to collaborate with." Not everyone agrees.

Like, even in the area where you* try to slam Waters, it turns out that the GOP's leader in this area is far more of a fuckin moron.

I'm far from saying our side is perfect. There are some mustard stains on our suits. But your side treats hogshit like Scrooge McDuck treats gold coins.

*HD, obviously--Ravenman's cool.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 04-11-2019 at 09:03 PM.
  #17  
Old 04-12-2019, 06:44 AM
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I'm certainly noticing the pattern HD is trying to establish.
I suspect there's an "Obama thinks there are 57 states!" checkmate move in store.
  #18  
Old 04-12-2019, 06:55 AM
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This is a big chunk of it. Academic snobbery with a healthy mix of libertarian douchebaggery.

But he's not dumb.
Ah, dumb like a fox; he's smart enough to know that his supporters are dumb.

Last edited by bobot; 04-12-2019 at 06:56 AM.
  #19  
Old 04-12-2019, 07:06 AM
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I suspect there's an "Obama thinks there are 57 states!" checkmate move in store.
[off-topic] When I'm referring to the electoral college I often write "51 states", mostly to save keystrokes but partly to see if some yokel will need to post a Gotcha stupitimus!

Potus is responsible, and receives reports, for Puerto Rico, Guam, and other non-states as well as the 50 states. I wonder if they add up to 57 separate polities altogether and Obama was using a shorthand.
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:26 AM
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Yeah, this is a "you're not a real scientist, hur hur, shut up" moment. Of course the distinguished gentleman would mind his words if addressing a straight science Ph.D. who would instead be accused of being a cloudheaded theoritician who doesn't actually make and fix things people use.

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[off-topic] When I'm referring to the electoral college I often write "51 states", mostly to save keystrokes but partly to see if some yokel will need to post a Gotcha stupitimus!

Potus is responsible, and receives reports, for Puerto Rico, Guam, and other non-states as well as the 50 states. I wonder if they add up to 57 separate polities altogether and Obama was using a shorthand.
There's at least 57 polities that participate in the Democratic primaries: 50 states, DC, 5 unincorporated territories and Americans Abroad. But I've always seen Barry's "57 states" as just an honest brainfart after an exhausting stretch of campaigning rather.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 04-12-2019 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:35 AM
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Kerry's poli sci degree is a BA so poli sci is a "pseudo-science." Does Speaker Pelosi have the authority to have Massie spanked?

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Ladies and Gentlemen, may I introduce to you the Congressman from Kentucky, Rep. Thomas Massie....
The most shocking part is that Massie thinks he totally owned Kerry during the exchange. How does a man this stupid manage to get into a position of authority?
A famous scene from Inherit the Wind portrays a similar fight, in America's past, between science and ignorance. But at least the politicians of those days were sincere and serious.

When Hollywood portrays the abominable hearings, like OP's example, of the present era, they won't hire stars like Spencer Tracy to engage in witty repartee. The scenes will feature hebephrenic clowns portraying Gohmert, Massie et al, all incapable of anything but laying turds on the floors of Congress, pointing at their turds and laughing.
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:55 AM
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Thank you all for the thoughtful replies. The idea that Massie was pandering to morons ("See, y'all, I'm just as stupid as you!") had not occurred to me. I look for political leaders to know stuff that I don't. I suppose there are other voters who prefer that their leaders be stupid.

In any event, then, I will still consider Louie Gohmert, the Pride of East Texas, as the stupidest person in Congress. Massie isn't stupid, he just thinks his voters are.
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:02 AM
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He's not pandering to morons. His speaking points, reiterated on twitter, are common among climate change deniers, many of them with prestigious education who are not in political office and are only into it to protect opinions they have cemented through prolonged Dunning-Krugering and confirmation bias research.

Being intelligent doesn't prevent you from being stupid, just like being Jewish is no guarantee against becoming a white nationalist.
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:11 AM
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Yeah, this is a "you're not a real scientist, hur hur, shut up" moment. Of course the distinguished gentleman would mind his words if addressing a straight science Ph.D. who would instead be accused of being a cloudheaded theoritician who doesn't actually make and fix things people use.



There's at least 57 polities that participate in the Democratic primaries: 50 states, DC, 5 unincorporated territories and Americans Abroad. But I've always seen Barry's "57 states" as just an honest brainfart after an exhausting stretch of campaigning rather.
Yeah, that. He meant to say "47 out of 50" and it came out "57".
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:39 AM
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I have no doubt you have mischaracterized Massie.

I am not surprised that you didn’t quote from him.

Last edited by WillFarnaby; 04-12-2019 at 11:42 AM.
  #26  
Old 04-12-2019, 11:56 AM
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Kerry's poli sci degree is a BA so poli sci is a "pseudo-science."
Why do you think those programs have adopted the term “science”? It is to co-opt the high regard of actual science. Kind of like how Trump named his bunk classes “Trump University”.

Before “political science” existed, those duties were undertaken by successful individuals. The progressive movement, associated with pseudo-science like eugenics from the beginning, sought to creat a class of “experts” to manage society and behavior. They adopted the language of real science to do this.

This should be offensive to anyone who has respect for actual science, but many otherwise smart liberal scientists and engineers buy into the “expert” narrative many social “sciences” have created.

A political science degree is not a credential that should be given any credence whatsoever. It is the credential of an individual who seeks to control, influence, and coerce people without having earned their respect by using the state apparatus.

Last edited by WillFarnaby; 04-12-2019 at 12:00 PM.
  #27  
Old 04-12-2019, 12:50 PM
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Ok, cool.

Hook Em
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Old 04-12-2019, 01:26 PM
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He probably does understand, but he believes, correctly, that his constituents don't, and will think that his obvious sophistry is actually a cogent argument.
That. He seemed clumsy about it because it's a clumsy point to argue if you know better. The pols who are dumb enough to believe in denialism, or just accept it as plausible, are much smoother and more practiced about saying so.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:20 PM
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I have no doubt you have mischaracterized Massie.

I am not surprised that you didn’t quote from him.
I have no doubt you failed to even watch the cite provided and only opine from a position of ignorance and contempt for the OP.

Last edited by Chisquirrel; 04-12-2019 at 03:20 PM. Reason: Changed a nut
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:31 PM
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I have no doubt you have mischaracterized Massie.

I am not surprised that you didn’t quote from him.
I'm not surprised that you've mischaracterized the entire exchange without actually watching it.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:47 PM
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I have no doubt you failed to even watch the cite provided and only opine from a position of ignorance and contempt for the OP.
I donít even know the OP, but I knew he mischaracterized the exchange because Massie is not dumb. I watched and validated the hunch.

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I'm not surprised that you've mischaracterized the entire exchange without actually watching it.
I didnít characterize the exchange at all. What are you talking about?
  #32  
Old 04-12-2019, 03:57 PM
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I donít even know the OP, but I knew he mischaracterized the exchange because Massie is not dumb. I watched and validated the hunch.
This exchange with Sec. Kerry is the only thing I know about Rep. Massie, so I may have mischaracterized the man as dumb. However, the "points" he was trying to make are beyond dumb. They were so misguided that Kerry, a man familiar with negotiating with the worst of humanity, was at a loss for how to proceed.
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Old 04-12-2019, 04:35 PM
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I donít even know the OP, but I knew he mischaracterized the exchange because Massie is not dumb. I watched and validated the hunch.
Ok then that is worse, Massie is smart enough to dismiss what needs to be done so as to put party ahead of country... or the world for that matter.
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Old 04-12-2019, 05:01 PM
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He's not actually dumb. He has a BS and MS engineering degrees from MIT. ...
Quote:
Massie: Well, Youíre the science expert. You have the political science degree.
So, Mr. Massie: you are an engineer.....and yet you've never driven a train??!?!?!?!?!??

So much for your supposed 'expertise,' Mr. Massie. Good day, sir!






Massie quotation from transcript at:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...istory-820690/
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:56 PM
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Massie quotation from transcript at:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...istory-820690/
Thank you for the transcript. Sadly, it just doesn't do the moment justice. The smug tone that Massie has is just priceless. He acts like he thinks he has really put one over on Kerry; that he has somehow proven something or other. Of course, the people that Massie is hamming it up for probably thinks that their guy did put the egghead academic in his place.
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Old 04-13-2019, 02:18 AM
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... The smug tone that Massie has is just priceless. He acts like he thinks he has really put one over on Kerry; that he has somehow proven something or other. Of course, the people that Massie is hamming it up for probably thinks that their guy did put the egghead academic in his place.
Yes, Massie knew he was just playing the role of clown. He was pretending to be a moron in order to appeal to real morons. (Is it possible to find similar bullshit in Congressional transcripts from 50 years ago, or is this level of bullshit new?)

At SDMB, we almost all see Massie's bullshit as a pretense of stupidity. (@ WillFarnaby ó you can see this too, right? When you're not trying to twist the hearing's dialog into some unrelated narrative.)

What is especially sad is that ordinary FoxNews couch potatoes were not Massie's primary target audience. He was playing especially for one man: the Couch Potato-in-Chief, DJT.
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Old 04-18-2019, 04:40 AM
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Wait a minute. Massie has advanced degrees from MIT yet does not understand varying carbon levels in geologic timeframes? Seriously?

So you're saying that what we may have here is an MIT engineer scoffing at a Yalie's liberal arts degree having the word "science" but not being a real science?

I did not look into Massie's credentials, I admit. I am stunned to hear that he has such a prestigious education. Did he maybe hit his head on the way to the committee room?
Oh, he knows the truth. He's just rather push his false facts through to get the GOP base and big sectors to keep donating.

GOP leaders present themselves as idiots, but they're not idiots in reality. They play idiots to rise up their base and keep getting that sweet corporate money.

Except Trump. He's an actual dumbass.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:06 AM
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I'm not sure the party that keeps re-electing Hank Johnson to GA-4 has a lot of moral high ground from which to sneer at the stupidity of other parties' voters.
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I guess I could have posted Maxine asking the bank CEOs about student loan programs the other day, about a decade after the federal government took over student lending, but Johnson's concern about Guam capsizing is such a classic moment in history that I couldn't resist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
During a House Armed Services Committee hearing on March 25, 2010[33] concerning the U.S. military installation on the island of Guam, Johnson said to Admiral Robert F. Willard, Commander of U.S. Pacific Command, "My fear is that the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize", to which Admiral Willard replied, "We don't anticipate that."[34][35][36] Johnson later said that he was using a facetious metaphor to draw attention to the potential negative impact caused by the addition of 8000 marines and dependents and potentially up to 80 000 workers during the base's peak construction period to an island of 180 000 people.[37]
Not to be a jerk, but if you took a statement like that literally, you have absolutely no business calling out anyone else on their intelligence.

Last edited by Budget Player Cadet; 04-18-2019 at 05:06 AM.
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:08 AM
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Not to be a jerk, but if you took a statement like that literally, you have absolutely no business calling out anyone else on their intelligence.
I don't know, I just watched the actual interaction with the admiral and it doesn't look like he's being facetious to me. The whole interaction is here, although they stop right after the admiral says they don't anticipate that will happen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cesSRfXqS1Q

That video is admittedly making fun of him by showing his statement twice, but they show the whole thing in context. He spends the whole time talking (very slowly, and barely getting the facts out) about how small an island it is, and then, seemingly seriously, expresses concern that it could tip over. I suspect their statement after the fact was just cover.

I don't know anything about Congressman Johnson and for all I know, he's a master of deadpan humor, but I didn't pick it up from that clip.
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:33 AM
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It should be re-emphasized that having advanced degrees is no guarantee that a person won't espouse pseudoscientific nonsense.

For example, there's a discouraging number of neurosurgeons who espouse woo/bizarre conspiracy theories.

And that doesn't even include Ben Carson.

Last edited by Jackmannii; 04-18-2019 at 08:35 AM.
  #41  
Old 04-18-2019, 08:42 AM
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Not to be a jerk, but if you took a statement like that literally, you have absolutely no business calling out anyone else on their intelligence.
I'm with RitterSport on this. Trying to claim he "was using a facetious metaphor" for his off-his-rocker stupidity is about the lamest attempt at covering for a major "oops" I've ever seen.
  #42  
Old 04-18-2019, 08:44 AM
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I feel like he was trying to bait Kerry into saying: "Climate changed with out humans", so he could say: "See? Told ya', human caused global warming is a farce!"

His "gotcha" moment obviously didn't go well for him.
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