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Old 06-10-2006, 01:43 AM
Seven Seven is offline
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My first thoughts on Windows Vista

I've installed Windows Vista Beta 2 in a brand spanking new AMD x2 3800.

At first look, it's pretty. I'm sure most people have seen screen shots by now. The glass effects are very nice looking. The window animations are slick. I like the default black taskbar (I could do without the windows logo "start" button). In all I give it a 9 on style. I looks a bit like a mac really.

There is a Mac-ish program/gadget/widget dock which lands on the right side of the screen. It has a analouge clock and some other do-dads. I find it less useful then the mac dock on the bottom of the screen (I use a windows version of it on my XP machines - which look a bit like a mac at the moment).

Things have been moved around and in some cases you really have to dig to figure out where they moved settings. For instance, there is no "my computer" to right click and go to "properties" to access hardware information. If there is a two click method to see system properties, I haven't found it yet. I'm not sure why Microsoft does this. The damn setting has been in that location since Windows 95. Why move it?

Most things seem to take an extra click or two to get there. In most Windows you can right click the desktop to get to properties. Click that and you're and display properties. On Vista you right click the desktop, click "personalize" and click display properties from there. An extra window and click to get there. Not a big deal but the change doesn't make much sence.

Moving around and installing things is damn annoying. MS has gone a bit over the top on security over usability with their "do you trust this" popups- of which I shall explain now...

The mother board has a dual gigabit ethernet. One is a fairly common Marvel -I forget the other at the moment. Vista doesn't know what either of these NIC's are. I wondered if I could use the driver disk that came with the motherboard. I drop the disk in and Vista runs the "autorun" on the CD (one of Microsofts inventions if I recall). Up pops a window (called "user account control") asking if I trust the software about to run. I say yes. It shows me a window which shows the app autorun wants to run. I click it. Again with the trust window. I say yes.

It seems like most things you attempt to run (or if you get into system properties) the trust window is opening left and right. Too add to the annoy factor, when the trust window pops up the rest of the screen dims quickly by about 50%. So far I haven't figured out a way to shut it off.

At the end of it the NIC drivers on the disk don't work for either card so unless I drop in a supported NIC I've no network/internet access on the Vista machine.

I found this a bit odd. Granted it is only a Beta version, but Vista is deeply tied to network/internet access. Every other window has a section to go on-line to look for something or another. In the games directory there is a link to go online to find more games. In the computer performance section there is a link to "search the internet for software designed for your computer's rating".

One would THINK a collection of default NIC drivers would trump all other drivers included in the beta release. Once on-line I could use the Windows driver website to find all the other stuff like video and modem, etc. But no. Of course not. That would make far too much sense.

Another thing I found odd is how it displays content in Vista windows. If the window is too narrow instead of wrapping the content textual it just cuts it off. There will be an icon and next to it the words "Computer Settin". If you narrow the window even more it will say "computer s". A bit more and some will attempt to wrap the letters but you end up with..

Code:
Co
m
p
u
t
e
r

Se
t
t
i
n
g
s
Of course, those rules down always apply. Sometimes the right-most column of icons just doesn't show up if the window is too narrow.

Crazy.

There are a few things worth noting which I haven't read in reviews yet. They've updated their default games. Solitare, minesweep, and all the classics have been given a new look. They also include Chess, a kids game where you make cakes and stuff (cute for 3 year olds) and Inkball (which was included with XP Tablet).



Shutdown is a bit woggy. When you click "start" (are they still calling it that?) you'll see a power icon. If you click it the computer drops straight into suspend mode. No warning. To shut the computer down you have to click a little arrow next to it and select shutdown from there. This is one case where I really want the pop up asking what I want to do.

Windows Media Player is funky. It wouldn't let me unclick "report your music use to microsoft" and it choked and crashed on a standard 3 mb avi file.

I don't think I'll rush right out and get this when it's released. I'm not too impressed. Granted this is beta and many things could change for the better, but I'm not seeing anything at this point that blows away XP. It's slower on the same hardware, Areo glass isn't that cool, and drivers might be hard to come by at first. Shrug.

The good news is most everything is running in VMware Workstation 5.5.1 so I can use Vista (sans glass effects) in a virtural machine in XP.
  #2  
Old 06-10-2006, 02:29 AM
Cicero Cicero is offline
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Seven, where did you obtain it? I'd love to try it out. Even though it will probably wreck my Commodore 64.
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Old 06-10-2006, 03:18 AM
Quartz Quartz is online now
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I just get 'We're unable to complete your request. The Passport Network is experiencing technical difficulties. Please try again later.'
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Old 06-10-2006, 03:38 AM
Seven Seven is offline
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Originally Posted by Cicero
Seven, where did you obtain it? I'd love to try it out. Even though it will probably wreck my Commodore 64.
You can try and download it from Microsoft (3.5 gig .iso file) but I've heard people aren't having much luck at the moment due to the traffic.
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Old 06-10-2006, 05:13 AM
Tuckerfan Tuckerfan is offline
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In one of the Mac magazines I pick up irregularly, they tried running Vista on an Intel Mac with BootCamp without success. They're attitude was, "Well, it is a beta, after all." Still, the more I hear about Vista, the more likely I am to drop M$ products and go with Linux.
  #6  
Old 06-10-2006, 08:43 AM
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Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
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Moving thread from IMHO to MPSIMS.
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Old 06-10-2006, 12:57 PM
Mindfield Mindfield is offline
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Is it dual-bootable? Might be interesting to try it on a different partition just to see what all the fuss is about. I really don't plan on fully adopting it until either I've had a significant amount of time to try it out myself to determine its stability, compability and usability, and/or I've read enough user reviews that give it a thumbs up that I'm convinced it's worth switching to. I've been running XP since prior to its release (worked retail in software at the time and our MS-provided training left us with free XP copies) and it's been quite stable. Unline previous versions of Windows I don't really have a compelling reason like bloat and/or instability to upgrade this time, so unless it lives up to the majority of its hype I can't see myself shelling out for it until it becomes an issue.
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Old 06-10-2006, 04:48 PM
Cicero Cicero is offline
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Thanks. I'm there now and it is downloading. I ran the programme to make sure my computer could cope and although it indicated that the computer was fine, it may be necessary to download drivers for my cable modem. It said to get them from the Microsoft Update site. Naturally they aren't there.
  #9  
Old 06-10-2006, 06:28 PM
Seven Seven is offline
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Tuckerfan - I don't know where you are in the Linux world, but Fedora 5 might be a good place to start. I use it for general desktop work. It can't replace my XP machine because I have too many music apps I need to run.

I still don't think Linux is ready for average computer use. If you have a geek-streak and don't mind fiddling, perfect. I'd never put it on my moms computer though.

Vista will be shoved at the masses because all the new machines will come with it. The good news is all the new machines will run XP as well. For the next few years Dell, HP and Gateway will need to put out high end machines and I'm sure this new Vista number rating will be in play. Dell will be able to make its high Vista number rating a selling point.

"Our $1000 machine gets a Vista rating of 4 where HP's $1000 machine only gets a 3.75. Clearly ours is better"

We might suffer from a annoying OS, but our hardware will get bigger and better for cheaper. We remove the annoying OS and put whatever we want in it.

Mindfield - Dual-boot? I'm sure you can do it. I just took an older 30gig hard drive I had and put Vista in that. I'd be hesitant to dual boot a beta Microsoft OS on the same drive you keep your working OS.

Cicero - I'll give you a heads up on networking. My virtual install of Vista wouldn't connect with my network. I spent a good 20 minutes scratching my head wondering why, if all elements seemed in place, it wouldn't connect. I could ping DNS outside my firewall but all other traffic was gak'ed. When I disabled IPv6 on that NIC I connected right up.

You shouldn't need cable modem drivers unless you're running it USB. Just let your cable modem hand out a DHCP IP address and connect up through an ethernet cable. If you don't have that ability, I wish you a deal of luck. heh heh.

Let me know how it goes.
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Old 06-10-2006, 06:40 PM
Cicero Cicero is offline
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I'm a bit nervous about this part:

Installation limitations
There are two installation scenarios for Windows Vista Beta 2 (and RC1):
You can do a clean installation. This process will overwrite any data that you have on your hard disk or on your installation partition. The overwritten data will be lost and unrecoverable.
You can upgrade an existing installation of Windows XP.

No other installation scenarios are supported. Upgrading to this beta from any other edition of Windows requires a clean installation, as described in option 1. In addition, once you install Windows Vista Beta 2 (or RC1) you cannot roll back to the previous operating system installation—you will either have to acquire and install the final released edition of Windows Vista or reinstall a previous edition of Windows. Before installing Windows Vista Beta 2 on any computer, please remember to back up all your files.

Does this mean that once installed, I can no longer revert to XP?
  #11  
Old 06-10-2006, 07:36 PM
Mindfield Mindfield is offline
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Originally Posted by Seven
Mindfield - Dual-boot? I'm sure you can do it. I just took an older 30gig hard drive I had and put Vista in that. I'd be hesitant to dual boot a beta Microsoft OS on the same drive you keep your working OS.
I've got a 100GB partition that's basically doing nothing and is safely reformattable, so I could just use that. Perhaps if I get some time this week/next weekend I might futz around with it.
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Old 06-10-2006, 08:04 PM
Seven Seven is offline
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Does this mean that once installed, I can no longer revert to XP?
Yes. If you only have one drive, can't repartition, and want to keep your running copy of XP, I wouldn't click "install now"

And for everyone playing with this.. if you find the "do you trust this" popup annoying, you can shut it off in control panel > user accounts > change security settings.
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Old 06-10-2006, 09:57 PM
E-Sabbath E-Sabbath is offline
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I rather favor Ubuntu. It's got a lovely CD image you can download, boot off of, see if you like it. It's very nicely behaving, too.
www.ubuntu.org

That said... Well, Vista is filling me with absolute lack of joy, you know? It's... just... slower.
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Old 06-10-2006, 10:08 PM
SkipMagic SkipMagic is offline
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I believe you mean www.ubuntu.com and not *.org. (Unless the World Forum of Civil Society Networks has also put out a distrubution of Linux.)
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Old 06-11-2006, 12:13 AM
Seven Seven is offline
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Ubuntu is pretty good. Kubuntu is good if you prefer K.

I kind of lean towards Fedora because we use Red Hat Enterprise at work.

E-Sabbath - I know what you mean by lack of joy. At first I was like "wow, pretty". After that wore off I was like "wow, it is about the same as XP expect I don't know where anything is."


And damn does it take long to boot. No wonder they hide the shutdown option.
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Old 06-11-2006, 12:23 AM
Tuckerfan Tuckerfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven
Tuckerfan - I don't know where you are in the Linux world, but Fedora 5 might be a good place to start. I use it for general desktop work. It can't replace my XP machine because I have too many music apps I need to run.

I still don't think Linux is ready for average computer use. If you have a geek-streak and don't mind fiddling, perfect. I'd never put it on my moms computer though.
I've played with several times. I had set this box up to run Linux, but had to swap back to XP in order to run some programs I needed for one of my jobs. Now that I no longer have the job, I don't need to run Winblows, but I haven't gotten around to flipping this back to Linux.
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Old 06-11-2006, 06:40 AM
Cicero Cicero is offline
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Originally Posted by Seven
Yes. If you only have one drive, can't repartition, and want to keep your running copy of XP, I wouldn't click "install now"

And for everyone playing with this.. if you find the "do you trust this" popup annoying, you can shut it off in control panel > user accounts > change security settings.

Thanks- I'm glad I found out in time. As this BETA version is set to expire on 1 July (I think that was the date), even if I hadn't liked it I would have had to buy the full version.
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Old 06-11-2006, 11:49 AM
E-Sabbath E-Sabbath is offline
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It's not going to be on sale on 1 July. Of course, if you find the popup annoying and shut it off, congratulations, you have disabled the primary security feature of Vista.
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Old 06-11-2006, 11:56 AM
Mindfield Mindfield is offline
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It expires June 1st, 2007.
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Old 06-11-2006, 05:30 PM
Seven Seven is offline
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Originally Posted by E-Sabbath
It's not going to be on sale on 1 July. Of course, if you find the popup annoying and shut it off, congratulations, you have disabled the primary security feature of Vista.

I think I've found more security issues with Vista. The entire OS is speckled with links to websites to find more software. It looks like this is all stored in XML. Someone could write a nifty script to search/replace these links to other websites.

Of course this is in theory. I haven't tried it yet.

Why can't this just be an OS? A base of which you run software on? Why does the general user NEED it to contain content like AOL?
  #21  
Old 06-11-2006, 06:24 PM
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Mangetout Mangetout is offline
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What file systems do the betas currently support? I understand NTFS was to be superseded by WinFS (which would not have drive letters and would be more *nix-ish in style and operation)
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Old 06-11-2006, 06:36 PM
asterion asterion is offline
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Hmm...I could try dual-booting it. I'm running a 64-bit CPU with a 32-bit OS so my computer's not quite running up to its full potential. However, I'm willing to bet that some of my added PCI cards won't have driver support, mostly my sound card (5 years old) and TV card (4 years old) but perhaps also my FireWire card. That's one of the reasons I haven't gone up to WinXP 64--lack of driver support--not so much that Vista is coming out sometime before Duke Nukem Forever. Heck, I've already got a partition that's not doing anything at the moment (it's partitioned for Win98SE but I had to reinstall XP a couple times since and so now it's not dual-booting) that might be big enough, at least for the OS. Will 10 gigs give it enough breathing room?
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Old 06-11-2006, 07:25 PM
Tuckerfan Tuckerfan is offline
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What file systems do the betas currently support? I understand NTFS was to be superseded by WinFS (which would not have drive letters and would be more *nix-ish in style and operation)
Last I heard, WinFS wasn't going to be ready in time for Vista's release.
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Old 06-11-2006, 08:28 PM
Taran Taran is offline
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Originally Posted by Seven
I think I've found more security issues with Vista. The entire OS is speckled with links to websites to find more software. It looks like this is all stored in XML. Someone could write a nifty script to search/replace these links to other websites.

Of course this is in theory. I haven't tried it yet.
In fairness, if you have enough rights to let your script edit arbitrary files on the target machine, there are nastier ways to mess with it than to replace those links.

Thanks for your thoughts, Seven. The more I hear about Vista, the more I think that my next major OS upgrade is going to be to Fedora (I am presently running XP, and am very happy there).

On preview: Yeah, they cut WinFS so as to not miss their ship date. By as much.
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Old 06-11-2006, 08:31 PM
Seven Seven is offline
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What file systems do the betas currently support? I understand NTFS was to be superseded by WinFS (which would not have drive letters and would be more *nix-ish in style and operation)
I'm running the 32 bit beta and it is NTFS. That said, things are different.

I used IE to download Opera and crating a new directory called "download" to drop Opera in was a bit of a chore. MS is really pushing towards the new file system and how it's going to work and how you WILL do things their way.

Once I got Opera in and went to download something else, Opera uses the familier file system format.

Tomorrow at work I'm going to grab the 64bit beta. Perhaps things are a bit different on that. We'll see.
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Old 06-11-2006, 08:49 PM
scotandrsn scotandrsn is offline
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Vista will be shoved at the masses because all the new machines will come with it. The good news is all the new machines will run XP as well. For the next few years Dell, HP and Gateway will need to put out high end machines and I'm sure this new Vista number rating will be in play. Dell will be able to make its high Vista number rating a selling point.

"Our $1000 machine gets a Vista rating of 4 where HP's $1000 machine only gets a 3.75. Clearly ours is better"

We might suffer from a annoying OS, but our hardware will get bigger and better for cheaper. We remove the annoying OS and put whatever we want in it.
I don't know if this is as done a deal as you might think.

Last year, MS presented Vista to the software developers who were going to have to tweak their big-sellers to run on it. They were monumentally unimpressed, with some predicting only a 30% market penetration, maximum. Witness how long a lot of people hung onto and still hang onto Windows 2000.

A few months ago, Windows did a demo for the hardcore PC magazines. They declared the UI for the new Office nearly unusable. The feature bloat apparently has reached epic proportions.

The blinky-box makers and sellers have suffered drops in sales, with no new OS to attract buyers in the last four years. They are starting to look around at alternatives.

Now Symantec has sued Microsoft for overstepping the bounds of a licensing agreement on Symantec technology used in MS Anti-Virus, and the release date has slipped again.

When XP appeared, PC users encountered the phenomenon that Mac users had put up with for years - their old software didn't work on their new computer. So now they're going to be presented with a new OS that Microsoft couldn't get out the door for four years and has a lot of bad buzz in the industry.

I think 30% market penetration for Vista is optimistic, especially with XP Service Pack 2 being the most stable OS Microsoft has ever released, particularly if you avoid the use of Internet Explorer.
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Old 06-11-2006, 09:21 PM
Mindfield Mindfield is offline
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Originally Posted by scotandrsn
I think 30% market penetration for Vista is optimistic, especially with XP Service Pack 2 being the most stable OS Microsoft has ever released, particularly if you avoid the use of Internet Explorer.
I can see this being pretty accurate. XP SP2 is both Microsoft's blessing and its curse. On the one hand, as you said, XP SP2 is Microsoft's most stable OS since ... well, DOS. We won't speak of its security, but it's gotten better. It is reliable, and it runs everything everyone needs. As a result it has been Microsoft's biggest seller. And that is also the same reason people won't be compelled to switch to Vista. Without a significantly compelling reason to upgrade -- Aero doesn't count -- few but the early adopters will take to it straight away. And right now it seems like Vista doesn't even begin to touch on most of the reasons people would want to switch. It's bloated, it's slower, and it has fairly steep system requirements in order for it to run at anything approaching a respectable speed. If its security ends up being everything it's cracked up to be, then that would be Microsoft's biggest advantage. Unfortunately, I doubt it's going to be anywhere near enough to convince people they need Vista. There's still a lot of work ahead for Microsoft.
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Old 06-12-2006, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Seven
I find it less useful then the mac dock on the bottom of the screen (I use a windows version of it on my XP machines - which look a bit like a mac at the moment).
[YODA] 'Flying a Kite' you are, hmmm? [/YODA]

I'm running the same emulator on my notebook, and I love it. I'm kinda looking forward to Vista, since my laptop has hardware for it (64 bit processor, 1 gig of DDR2 RAM, and a sexy CrystalBrite 15.4" widescreen).
In the meanwhile, FlyaKiteOSX does just fine, thanks.
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Old 06-12-2006, 12:52 AM
Seven Seven is offline
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[YODA] 'Flying a Kite' you are, hmmm? [/YODA]
Nope. I'm using Windows XP Tablet Edition SP2 for the OS, StyleXP for the enviroment and ObjectDock for the dock.


I started using this layout on my tablet laptop because it was easier to launch things with the pen. I got used to it so I've installed this layout on my work and home workstations and about half of my virtual XP sandbox installs.

I mean to edit the little blue apple in the top left corner (perhaps just a blue circle) but I've been too lazy.
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:58 AM
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Hee. My company gives a reseller conference every year (just finished it this weekend) and we had several computers running Vista. Here's what I found out:

--It's going to require hella RAM. They say 2G, just to be safe. I know we've got lots of techie dopers here that build their own computers and trick them out fully, but I certainly don't have a system like that. Hell, I just bought a new laptop and I only got 1 Gig with it, figuring it'd be plenty for my needs. Our tests showed the OS using 700ish MBs alone.

--It's not as pretty if you don't have a good graphics card. We ran Vista on two computers, one with a hefty graphics card and one with something much more basic. Vista didn't look so good on the basic card - the glass stuff didn't work. And whatever we were using was a bad choice as it was hard to tell which window had focus.

--They've been dropping features from the list left and right - seems they've chosen to stop moving the release date, meaning that to make that date more and more features are dropped. According to a manager, so much has been dropped that it's going to be much less enticing for the market.

--We also had a beta of Office 2007, and I find it hard to navigate, especially Word (which is what I'd use most often in my job). I don't care for the relocating of things I use often. It's also pretty unfinished - one of our apps runs on top of Access, and full 70% of our functions wouldn't even open in 2007 because it was so incomplete.

Count me unimpressed. Sure, it's shiny, but if it's unusable, who cares what it looks like? And if it requires too much $$ in hardware just to run, it's certainly not going to make any inroads any time soon.
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Old 06-12-2006, 11:14 AM
E-Sabbath E-Sabbath is offline
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The problem comes when it becomes an enforced install, and they stop selling XP at Dell. This is going to bloat hardware so much. Two gig minimum seems accurate... I've _got_ two gig, but this is going to be one of those 'as they sell new computers' upgrades.

I can't reccomend this for the office, though. And Word looks worse, I've seen the dynamic menus, and people have enough trouble with static ones.
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Old 06-12-2006, 02:58 PM
gotpasswords gotpasswords is offline
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Originally Posted by Tuckerfan
In one of the Mac magazines I pick up irregularly, they tried running Vista on an Intel Mac with BootCamp without success. They're attitude was, "Well, it is a beta, after all."
I wouldn't expect Vista to work with Boot Camp, and I have no idea why they did. Boot Camp is tooled to work exclusively with XP Home or Pro, SR2. SR2 is mandatory. Their expectation to have Boot Camp work with it makes as much sense as thinking they could get it to run OS/2.

As for the horsepower to run it on a normal PC, yep, give it gobs of RAM, both on the motherboard and on the video card. IIRC, 256 meg on the video card is the minimum to run Glass properly - this translates essentially into needing a "gaming" video card, rather than the typical corporate-level card. On-board video? Heh. Forget it.

WinFS was dropped months ago, so they wouldn't be as late as they will be. Any bets on whatever else will fall off as they attempt to hit the current target of first quarter, 2007?

PS: that new release date has frustrated computer manufacturers. Who's going to want a new PC for Christmas if it doesn't have the shiny new OS that will be coming out in two months?
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Old 06-13-2006, 01:33 AM
Tuckerfan Tuckerfan is offline
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I wouldn't expect Vista to work with Boot Camp, and I have no idea why they did. Boot Camp is tooled to work exclusively with XP Home or Pro, SR2. SR2 is mandatory. Their expectation to have Boot Camp work with it makes as much sense as thinking they could get it to run OS/2.
Well, hackers managed to get XP to run on Intel Macs before Apple released Boot Camp, and apparently, Linux runs just fine using Boot Camp (though, admittedly, Linux isn't all that different than OSX).
  #34  
Old 06-13-2006, 03:18 PM
Driver8 Driver8 is offline
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I wonder if the "multi-threading schmulti-threading! we'll just lock up the entire file explorer when trying to access a network resource in the background" attitude still prevails? I cannot believe this had been around for so long.
  #35  
Old 06-13-2006, 03:51 PM
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So what you're saying is that MS is officially buying into the old game-developer paradigm. Namely, release a buggy, awful piece of shit, and patch the living fuck out of it as they go along, and not just for security issues, but for additional features and capabilities.

Great.
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Old 06-13-2006, 04:06 PM
RogueRacer RogueRacer is offline
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So what you're saying is that MS is officially buying into the old game-developer paradigm. Namely, release a buggy, awful piece of shit, and patch the living fuck out of it as they go along, and not just for security issues, but for additional features and capabilities.
Who do you think the game developers learned it from?
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Old 06-14-2006, 12:06 AM
Sam Stone Sam Stone is offline
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You need a 128mb video card to get the glass effects. Which means that pretty soon every video card and laptop on the market will have at least 128mb. Remember, Microsoft is aiming Vista for release in a year or so, and it will be their mainstream OS for at least five years. It makes sense to aim a little high at the hardware level, given Moore's law and all that.

I've been playing around with XAML and Microsoft Expressions, and I really, really like it. You're going to see some amazing user interfaces in the future. Of course, you'll see a lot of junk that over-uses every new fancy feature, but once people figure out what works, you'll see some radical changes in the way we interact with our PCs.

Vista has a lot of bumps up ahead. The security features suck. Way too many security popups. From what I understand, Microsoft knows this and they're working on it. But overall, it's going to be at least as good an upgrade as XP was from 2000. And people said the same thing about XP - why upgrade from 2000? They even had a good point. XP isn't THAT different. But it still became the standard, because Microsoft makes sure that it's shipped with new PC's, and over time added enough features to make it compelling to upgrade.
  #38  
Old 06-14-2006, 03:44 AM
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Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Stone
Vista has a lot of bumps up ahead. The security features suck. Way too many security popups.
Well, really if you try running a *nix machine as a personal computer and aren't running as root, every three seconds you have to su/sudo to get your new system setup. People are just used to that paradigm on that platform.

Haven't seen Vista of course, so maybe it really is impressively worse.

*just runs as root*
  #39  
Old 06-14-2006, 03:55 AM
UnionSquarePark UnionSquarePark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotpasswords
I wouldn't expect Vista to work with Boot Camp, and I have no idea why they did. Boot Camp is tooled to work exclusively with XP Home or Pro, SR2. SR2 is mandatory. Their expectation to have Boot Camp work with it makes as much sense as thinking they could get it to run OS/2.
Vista is already running using BootCamp.
  #40  
Old 06-14-2006, 06:05 AM
E-Sabbath E-Sabbath is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Stone
Remember, Microsoft is aiming Vista for release in a year or so, and it will be their mainstream OS for at least five years.
Try three months, for the corporate version. Six-seven for consumer.
  #41  
Old 06-14-2006, 09:19 AM
Seven Seven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage Rat
Well, really if you try running a *nix machine as a personal computer and aren't running as root, every three seconds you have to su/sudo to get your new system setup. People are just used to that paradigm on that platform.

Haven't seen Vista of course, so maybe it really is impressively worse.

*just runs as root*
But on linux when you switch to root to do a task, it will let you finish the task without bothering you again. Vista,. not so much.

I forget what I was doing but Vista bugged me three times just making a basic setting change.
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