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  #151  
Old 01-24-2019, 06:59 PM
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I still think some of those people are stubborn Republicans who don’t really like him but are gritting their teeth and getting through this while refusing to break ranks.
  #152  
Old 01-24-2019, 08:25 PM
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Trump's approval rating hardly changes no matter what he does.
Per 538, his net approval (IOW, approval - disapproval) was -9.2 on December 15; now it's -16.4. That's movement. And it's the worst it's been in a year.

Last edited by RTFirefly; 01-24-2019 at 08:26 PM.
  #153  
Old 01-24-2019, 08:36 PM
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Trump's approval rating hardly changes no matter what he does. If you look at the history on fivethirtyeight.com, it started at about 45% when he took office, then sank to around 40% within a few months. Since then it has sunk as low as 36.4% and gone as high as 42.9%. It's never taken either a steep climb or dive.

One possibility is that the MAGA hat crowd actually believes Trump when he talks about fake news. If that's the case, it doesn't matter what Trump does. When the news reports on the effects of his policies and behavior, he just tells his followers not to believe it, and they don't. What few of us expected is that there are so many of these people.

Dude, he doesn't have to tell them. All he needs to do is refer to anyone he doesn't like with an insulting nickname and then the MAGAteers tell themselves to not believe facts.
  #154  
Old 01-24-2019, 10:22 PM
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Trump's approval rating hardly changes no matter what he does. If you look at the history on fivethirtyeight.com, it started at about 45% when he took office, then sank to around 40% within a few months. Since then it has sunk as low as 36.4% and gone as high as 42.9%. It's never taken either a steep climb or dive.

One possibility is that the MAGA hat crowd actually believes Trump when he talks about fake news. If that's the case, it doesn't matter what Trump does. When the news reports on the effects of his policies and behavior, he just tells his followers not to believe it, and they don't. What few of us expected is that there are so many of these people.
They don't believe it in very large part because they aren't living with the consequences of voting for him. But eventually, they will, and it won't be pretty. Even then I am sure that many Trumpists will blame liberals, illegals, gays, atheists, and communists, but some voters will eventually peel away. Whether they will give us the satisfaction of admitting they were wrong is a different subject, but that doesn't matter.
  #155  
Old 01-24-2019, 10:24 PM
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Per 538, his net approval (IOW, approval - disapproval) was -9.2 on December 15; now it's -16.4. That's movement. And it's the worst it's been in a year.
And Wilbur Ross and Mick Mulvaney aren't helping him either.

From "Let them eat cake" to "Let them borrow from loan sharks."
  #156  
Old 01-25-2019, 05:05 AM
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This is domination.

Trump is being dominated.

By a woman.
Has she offered to spank him with a copy of the Congressional Record while he lies naked across her lap? Maybe that's the way to get bipartisan amity and move forward.
  #157  
Old 01-25-2019, 06:23 AM
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Has she offered to spank him with a copy of the Congressional Record while he lies naked across her lap? Maybe that's the way to get bipartisan amity and move forward.
JHFC that's just gross beyond the pale. And too early in the morning.
  #158  
Old 01-25-2019, 07:15 AM
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And now, the Senate is starting to show some signs of strain.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...-is-your-fault

I think the shutdown is going to end soon because of the mounting pressure on Republican senators. It will be up to them to have the balls to tell the Ann Coulters of the world to go to hell, but at least some Republicans are beginning to understand the perils of staying aboard a Trump train that's about to drive everyone over the cliff.

But I've underestimated Republican stupidity and depravity before so we'll see.
  #159  
Old 01-25-2019, 07:31 AM
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They don't believe it in very large part because they aren't living with the consequences of voting for him. But eventually, they will, and it won't be pretty. Even then I am sure that many Trumpists will blame liberals, illegals, gays, atheists, and communists, ....
...Hillary and her emails, and Obama and his Kenyan Muslim cronies.

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...I think the shutdown is going to end soon because of the mounting pressure on Republican senators. ....
Yes, this is where it has to break. The Dems aren't going to back down and neither is thump. Sumpin's gotta give.
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  #160  
Old 01-25-2019, 07:52 AM
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And now, the Senate is starting to show some signs of strain.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...-is-your-fault
Looks like someone just got tired of so much winning.
  #161  
Old 01-25-2019, 09:26 AM
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Sweet.
  #162  
Old 01-25-2019, 04:09 PM
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IT IS ALL OVER!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE_4VEocw44

Ladies and gentleman, the winner, by submission, NANCY PELOSI!!!
  #163  
Old 01-25-2019, 04:18 PM
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The problem with Pelosi is that she’ll use her leverage for some stupid small-ball gain. She doesn’t understand the game has completely changed and she’s so fucking old. I’m gen x and I waited my whole life for the boomers to get out of the way and they never fucking did.
So she doesn't understand that the game has completely changed, eh? Looks to me like she just took Trump down, bent him over her knee, and spanked him good.
  #164  
Old 01-25-2019, 04:39 PM
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Well done Pelosi. I hope her Congressional colleagues appreciate her.

Of course, Trump is so delusional that he is unlikely to admit he just lost bigtime, and a lot of his followers are suckered in far enough that they're not going to recognise it either.

Looking forward to an ongoing Pelosi/Trump showdown that goes something like this
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  #165  
Old 01-25-2019, 05:19 PM
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So she doesn't understand that the game has completely changed, eh? Looks to me like she just took Trump down, bent him over her knee, and spanked him good.
Oh, the dems will have to give in on some borders security spending, and let him say that's for the wall, but we need to spend more $ down there anyway.
  #166  
Old 01-25-2019, 05:38 PM
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And an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.
I didn't ... expect that ...
  #167  
Old 01-25-2019, 05:40 PM
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When you posted this a week ago today, Trump's approval rating on fivethirtyeight.com was 40.2%. Right now it's 39.5%.

Any other predictions?
That all depends on which polls you believe -and whether it was "commissioned" by Cohen.
  #168  
Old 01-25-2019, 05:42 PM
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Looks like someone just got tired of so much winning.
They're turning against each other. Let's give them guns and it will sort itself all out. We can offer (tater) tots and pears later.
  #169  
Old 01-25-2019, 05:45 PM
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Of course, Trump is so delusional that he is unlikely to admit he just lost bigtime, ...
Correction: bigly.

Thank you, Nancy, for not blinking. I was hoping the new congress would be able to blunt il Douche's stupidity and impulses, and it seems to be working so far.
  #170  
Old 01-25-2019, 05:45 PM
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So she doesn't understand that the game has completely changed, eh? Looks to me like she just took Trump down, bent him over her knee, and spanked him good.
And she didn't even use a rolled-up magazine with his face on the cover.
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  #171  
Old 01-25-2019, 05:49 PM
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WTG, Nancy!

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/25/opini...zer/index.html
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Many new members of the House were uncertain about voting for Pelosi to be their leader. She quickly quashed the insurgents. But now, in her first official confrontation with Trump, she has proven her chops to all of them. It is no wonder the President has been so reluctant to tweet about her or give her a demeaning nickname. He has seen his top opponent, and the President is scared.
  #172  
Old 01-25-2019, 05:52 PM
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I have said that over and over- the GOP and Trump are scared shitless of Pelosi. I am not a huge Pelosi fan, but just that very fact makes me support her.

Of course, powerful women scare them, in general. Their "poster child " for a "powerful woman" is Sarah Palin. Think about that for a minute.
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Old 01-25-2019, 06:31 PM
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It's only for three weeks. I can't accept this as a complete win just yet.
  #174  
Old 01-25-2019, 06:35 PM
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Amazing - the Speaker backed Individual-1 into a corner - in an Oval Office no less!
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  #175  
Old 01-25-2019, 06:37 PM
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...I am not a huge Pelosi fan, ....
TBH I never paid that much attention to her. What makes you "not a fan"?
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  #176  
Old 01-25-2019, 06:38 PM
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It's only for three weeks. I can't accept this as a complete win just yet.
But how do you imagine he is going to start this machine up again? "Okay, now that the government is funded again, I WANT MY WALL!" How is that going to fly?

I think he is done and dusted on the wall.
  #177  
Old 01-25-2019, 06:46 PM
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Pelosi played a strong hand well. Republicans didn't want a shutdown. Democrats didn't want a shutdown. But the Russian representative in the White House wanted a shutdown.

Pelosi stood up to him. This wasn't really about the border wall. We can afford $5 billion of wasted spending on an unprotected wall to nowhere, which would inevitably be blown up, dug under, and cut through. Trump was offered $25 trillion of wall spending in return for giving permanent protection for the Dreamers -something most Republicans agree with - and he refused. So this wasn't about the wall.

This controversy was about whether America was willing to stand up to hostage takers. The hostages were the paychecks of 800,000 workers and ultimately the US economy. The US prevailed over the Russian rep, because we are led by Nancy Pelosi. That's a good thing, because hostage takers don't go away after they are paid ransom. They keep coming back for more. America would have made a terrible mistake if they negotiated with such criminal careerists.


ETA: Ezra Klein on Pelosi and Traitor Trump: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-shutdown-over

Last edited by Measure for Measure; 01-25-2019 at 06:50 PM.
  #178  
Old 01-25-2019, 07:05 PM
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It's only for three weeks. I can't accept this as a complete win just yet.

Right, but if he goes back to the same well, he will just get another round of the political pain he got this time.
  #179  
Old 01-25-2019, 07:13 PM
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TBH I never paid that much attention to her. What makes you "not a fan"?
A bit too liberal. Mind you, I dont hate her or anything, she is OK.
  #180  
Old 01-25-2019, 08:02 PM
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Trump was offered $25 trillion of wall spending in return for giving permanent protection for the Dreamers -something most Republicans agree with - and he refused. So this wasn't about the wall.
No it wasn't about the wall. But I hope my readers understood I meant $25 billion, not $25 trillion.

ETA: Ezra Klein on Pelosi and Trump: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-shutdown-over Meh, I'll quote something from the article:
Second, Pelosi correctly read Trump’s personality and had the steel to act on that read. For years now, members of Congress have divided on whether Trump is strong or weak, whether his political success shows an intuitive tactical genius that needs to be respected or a hollow showman who connects to conservatives but is easily flummoxed.

Pelosi has long held that Trump is weak, easily confused, and easily baited. That informed her strategy. Along with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, she baited Trump into saying, while the cameras were rolling, “I will shut down the government. I am proud to shut down the government. I will take the mantle.” In interviews and meetings, she tweaked the president, calling the crisis “the Trump shutdown” to Trump’s face and suggesting the billionaire thought furloughed workers “could just ask their father for more money.” She was betting that Trump would overreact rather than turn her into the aggressor, and he did.
Also:
You don’t hear many House Democrats these days grumbling about Pelosi’s leadership. But you hear plenty of Republicans lamenting Trump’s.

Last edited by Measure for Measure; 01-25-2019 at 08:03 PM.
  #181  
Old 01-25-2019, 08:58 PM
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Pelosi Statement on Special Counsel Indictment and Arrest of Trump Campaign Advisor Roger Stone Quoted in full - it's a public press release, so I'd think it's kosher to do so.
Quote:
The indictment of Roger Stone makes clear that there was a deliberate, coordinated attempt by top Trump campaign officials to influence the 2016 election and subvert the will of the American people. It is staggering that the President has chosen to surround himself with people who violated the integrity of our democracy and lied to the FBI and Congress about it.



“In the face of 37 indictments, the President’s continued actions to undermine the Special Counsel investigation raise the questions: what does Putin have on the President, politically, personally or financially? Why has the Trump Administration continued to discuss pulling the U.S. out of NATO, which would be a massive victory for Putin?



“Lying to Congress and witness tampering constitute grave crimes. All who commit these illegal acts should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. We cannot allow any effort to intimidate witnesses or prevent them from appearing before Congress.



“The Special Counsel investigation is working, and the House will continue to exercise our constitutional oversight responsibility and ensure that the Special Counsel investigation can continue free from interference from the White House.
This was also released as a series of Twitter tweets, by the way.
  #182  
Old 01-25-2019, 09:24 PM
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Holy crap. She's really breaking it down for people. I'm sure the base will claim she's lying, but Orange Turd can't say this is fake news. HIS FBI raised Stone's house. HIS DOJ is approving all this.

I'm hoping for more Mueller indictments before this 3-week bullshit-temporary relief is over. Hopefully some more work gets done before the next shutdown.
  #183  
Old 01-25-2019, 09:36 PM
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Right, but if he goes back to the same well, he will just get another round of the political pain he got this time.
I just can't put it past Trump to demonstrate any political wisdom. He acts on pure spite frequently, motivated by his desire to be the center of attention.
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:38 PM
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<<snip>>
You don’t hear many House Democrats these days grumbling about Pelosi’s leadership. But you hear plenty of Republicans lamenting Trump’s.
I wonder, if you were to go back and interview those opposed, whether they're still in opposition...
  #185  
Old 01-25-2019, 10:34 PM
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I just can't put it past Trump to demonstrate any political wisdom. He acts on pure spite frequently, motivated by his desire to be the center of attention.
Trump absolutely will want to do something deeply stupid in order to get his wall. Thursday made it look like McConnell was fresh out of patience with him.

McConnell is a deeply awful person, but he's also an expert politician. If he lets Trump know that his plays won't be backed, Trump loses a lot of power.
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:23 PM
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That is what is weirdest about our age. Past Presidents have cared about their party's reputation. For Trump, everything is personal psychology.

Second weirdest is that he still has a base of support.
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Old 01-26-2019, 03:26 AM
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I just can't put it past Trump to demonstrate any political wisdom. He acts on pure spite frequently, motivated by his desire to be the center of attention.
It seems obvious this is likely but the political skill shown by Mrs Pelosi should give confidence that he would lose again so long as the Democrats follow her and follow a disciplined message not too Left, keep unity against him.

The quote from above from the article seems very good

Quote:
Pelosi has long held that Trump is weak, easily confused, and easily baited. That informed her strategy. Along with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, she baited Trump into saying, while the cameras were rolling, “I will shut down the government. I am proud to shut down the government. I will take the mantle.” In interviews and meetings, she tweaked the president, calling the crisis “the Trump shutdown” to Trump’s face and suggesting the billionaire thought furloughed workers “could just ask their father for more money.” She was betting that Trump would overreact rather than turn her into the aggressor, and he did.
It is clear he is easily baited and so long as opposition do not go chasing after short-term outrage du jour, and play to only the Left base, you can easily bait him into alienating the center - as well as undercutting any communication strategy. His chaos method only works well when you are baited yourselves (as obviously occurs here with the 1 million Trump threads) and lose focus.

It seems to me Mrs Pelosi played the clever game.
  #188  
Old 01-26-2019, 05:23 AM
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Second weirdest is that he still has a base of support.
There are a hell of a lot of racists in America. I’m not surprised that they love him.
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Old 01-26-2019, 09:36 AM
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Trump gives snide nicknames to people he feels contempt for and wants to delegitimize. Little Marco, Low energy Jeb, etc.

His nickname for Nancy is...Nancy

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...of-pkg-vpx.cnn

The woman is running rings around the Russian asset in the white house. It’s gonna get uglier and uglier. I would, maybe feel sorry for him if he even once showed any positive human traits.

Nancy Pelosi: I moved on him like a bitch.

She owned him.
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Old 01-26-2019, 09:38 AM
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Amazing - the Speaker backed Individual-1 into a corner - in an Oval Office no less!


I am really enjoying Nancy dominating the fake tough guy.
  #191  
Old 01-26-2019, 09:58 AM
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I wonder, if you were to go back and interview those opposed, whether they're still in opposition...
They may well be, at least publicly, even if they ended up confirming her as Speaker in the end.

Those Dems opposed to her were mostly 'centrists' and conservative Dems from the more conservative districts. Basically, Blue Dogs if those still existed. Even if they personally like her, it may still play better in their districts to hold a certain distance.
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Old 01-26-2019, 10:39 AM
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They may well be, at least publicly, even if they ended up confirming her as Speaker in the end.

Those Dems opposed to her were mostly 'centrists' and conservative Dems from the more conservative districts. Basically, Blue Dogs if those still existed. Even if they personally like her, it may still play better in their districts to hold a certain distance.
Somewhere on the Dope (I can't find it now) there was a thread right after Election Day that discussed if Pelosi should remain as Speaker or if somebody else should be her replacement. I was of the firm opinion that somebody else should take the helm; I suggested Adam Schiff.

I am extremely happy to admit that I was wrong.
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Old 01-26-2019, 10:44 AM
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Nicely said, Railer13.
  #194  
Old 01-26-2019, 10:52 AM
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There are a hell of a lot of racists in America. I’m not surprised that they love him.
I'm not surprised they love him. I am surprised how many of them there are.
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Old 01-26-2019, 11:24 AM
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Trumpy almost has to start acting tough toward Pelosi after the coverage he is getting now .
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Old 01-26-2019, 11:26 AM
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Trump's only option is to declare a national emergency. I could be wrong, but I don't think he has the stomach for another prolonged shutdown, and I'm not sure Republicans wouldn't just let a bill come to the floor and notify him in advance that it'll be veto-proof.

But using nearly a million employees incomes as leverage is pretty goddamn dumb, and it didn't work. This country was getting to the point where the nation's aviation system - the busiest in the world - was about to shut down. This was going to look awful to everyone, and he would have been resoundingly condemned for it, even hypocritically by people in his own party who've been cheering him on. On the other hand, now he's being taken to the outhouse by right wing critics who refuse to reckon with reality.

His base loves it because, the idea that Trump's base consists of white working class folk is fake news. Trump's base is not highly educated, but they're typically white, wealthy, or rural, or a combination of those. They think of federal workers as glorified welfare recipients -- that is until they want their tax refund, their small business loan, or their agriculture subsidies.

You wanna know why Trump still has 30-35% of the country left? Because the economy's not that bad, and unfortunately, there are just that many shitty, white, bigoted sociopaths who live among us, who think the country is theirs and theirs alone, and who don't want to share the fruits of American productivity with the rest of us.

The sad part is that Trump needs his base, 'cause he's going to be impeached and thrown in jail otherwise. He needs the crazies, and the crazies know it, which is why they are hammering him with criticism, even though the crazies on some level know that what they're doing is destructive to the country as a whole. Again, they don't care. They never cared. They care about themselves, their clan, their fears, their greed. Trump's "base" is more than just deplorable; they're the personification of shit.
  #197  
Old 01-26-2019, 11:29 AM
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Trump gives snide nicknames to people he feels contempt for and wants to delegitimize. Little Marco, Low energy Jeb, etc.

His nickname for Nancy is...Nancy

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...of-pkg-vpx.cnn

The woman is running rings around the Russian asset in the white house. It’s gonna get uglier and uglier. I would, maybe feel sorry for him if he even once showed any positive human traits.

Nancy Pelosi: I moved on him like a bitch.

She owned him.
Nancy has a new name for Donald: bastard in a basket.
  #198  
Old 01-26-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
Trumpy almost has to start acting tough toward Pelosi after the coverage he is getting now .
I think he's afwaid of her. I would be.


Nancy Pelosi will ‘cut your head off and you won’t even know you’re bleeding,’ daughter Alexandra Pelosi says
Quote:
...Alexandra Pelosi, by contrast, hailed her mother as someone who “knows what she’s doing — and that should make you sleep at night, knowing that at least somebody in this town knows what they’re doing.”....
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  #199  
Old 01-26-2019, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railer13 View Post
Somewhere on the Dope (I can't find it now) there was a thread right after Election Day that discussed if Pelosi should remain as Speaker or if somebody else should be her replacement. I was of the firm opinion that somebody else should take the helm; I suggested Adam Schiff.

I am extremely happy to admit that I was wrong.
Oh, yes, I remember that thread. I spent a lot of time in it defending Pelosi.

It's kind of fun to go back and read what everyone thought in that moment.

And yes, Railer13, I agree with JKellyMap: Nicely done. It's admirable when someone can adjust their thinking based on a better understanding. You set a laudable example. Goodness knows we're all wrong often enough!
  #200  
Old 01-26-2019, 12:47 PM
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I admit it: I underestimated Pelosi. I thought she and Schumer would be Trump's punching bag, but I was wrong. I think Pelosi realized that Trump wanted a shutdown and decided "Fuck it, you want a shutdown? Okay, you can have one." And she probably did it knowing full well that once he got into that mess, he wouldn't have an easy retreat.
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