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Old 06-02-2019, 12:25 AM
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Why does a father/daughter relationship seem "stronger" than a mother/son?


I feel like fathers & daughters have a more "protective" relationship. I hear that some guys/girls have to ask "permission" whenever they're interested in a girl/guy. I rarely seen this the other way around, like when a guy has to ask his mother, even though it probably does occur if your family is strict about dating.

So, what's the main reason behind this? Does it all depend on how "deep" the relationship is between them? And how strict were your parents about dating?

Now, my parents never had a problem when it came to dating, but they always told me to aim for certain characteristics/traits in people, like basic intelligence/common scene & responsibility/respect & trustworthiness.
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Old 06-02-2019, 01:53 AM
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Fathers know what teenage boys think about and don’t want their daughters having anything to do with it. Karma.

That said, I question your basic premise that the father/daughter bond is stronger. I wouldn’t even know how to quantify that.
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Old 06-02-2019, 02:50 AM
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The example you give has:

the male of the pair being somewhat in control of the female's behaviour
the older one of the pair being somewhat in control of the younger one's behaviour

Both of these patterns fit comfortably into society's cultural stereotypes, so the father won't be ashamed of exerting a certain amount of control over his daughter, and the daughter won't be ashamed of being controlled. "Because he's my parent" is the ostensible reason, but "because he's male and I'm female" is lurking in the background.

What happens if a mother tries to exert an amount of control over her late teenage or young adult son. Well, we do actually have a stereotype about that, and I believe the words "Jewish Mother" encapsulate it - right? It's recognised as a dynamic that might exist, but it's not considered positively. So any individual mothers or sons will be less likely to admit that they are in that pattern - the son will be ashamed of being controlled, and the mother will be shamed for being controlling.

TLDR - I think you're wrong about what happens, but right about what people will admit to
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Old 06-02-2019, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by sta3535 View Post
I feel like fathers & daughters have a more "protective" relationship. I hear that some guys/girls have to ask "permission" whenever they're interested in a girl/guy. I rarely seen this the other way around, like when a guy has to ask his mother, even though it probably does occur if your family is strict about dating.
"More controlling" does not equal "stronger". In fact, one problem with controlling parents is that they often find themselves having a "wet soap" effect, where the tighter they want to control their child, the more likely the child is to just jump away.

And I'll see Aspidistra's Jewish mothers and raise you Italian mammas, Spanish madres pulpo (octopus mothers)... The figure of the overly-controlling parent of either gender exists in every culture: some get a shorthand for it, some do not, and whether it's considered more acceptable from one gender or the other varies by culture, but in general, well, we have that "overly" there precisely because it's not considered either normal or acceptable in most of the Western world's cultures.
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Last edited by Nava; 06-02-2019 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 06-02-2019, 02:58 PM
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There isn't a reason. You're giving a personal impression.
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Old 06-02-2019, 04:18 PM
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Thankfully, in general, attitudes and levels of acceptance has changed, but growing up in the 60's, my sisters boyfriends had to be Naichi (mainland Japanese), since they would take their husband's surname and their children would then be 3/4 Naichi (I'm Okinawan/Japanese,, a big no-no in the 40's when my parents married). I don't know the full story, but one of my cousins, who's full Okinawan never married because her parents (primarily my uncle on my Dad's side) forbade her marriage to a Naichi boy.

There was less pressure on the boys since we would retain the family name and I was much younger than my siblings when my parents would approve or disapprove of the girls choices. Even though I was in my early 20's when I fell in love for the first time, I wondered if my Dad would approve of my local Chinese girlfriend. Nothing was ever said and we lived together for 10 years with my parents and my Dad treated her like his own daughter. And my brother's wife is Okinawan/Hawaiian.

Edit: I know some Asian and Polynesian women who were either born here to 1st generation immigrants or immigrated here (to Hawaii) at a young age who have it ingrained into their mind that they must marry someone of their own ethnicity, preferably an immigrant from their parents home country.

Last edited by lingyi; 06-02-2019 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 06-02-2019, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sta3535 View Post
I feel like fathers & daughters have a more "protective" relationship. I hear that some guys/girls have to ask "permission" whenever they're interested in a girl/guy. I rarely seen this the other way around, like when a guy has to ask his mother, even though it probably does occur if your family is strict about dating.

So, what's the main reason behind this? Does it all depend on how "deep" the relationship is between them? And how strict were your parents about dating?

Now, my parents never had a problem when it came to dating, but they always told me to aim for certain characteristics/traits in people, like basic intelligence/common scene & responsibility/respect & trustworthiness.
I think that requiring my daughter to ask permission to date (or to date a specific boy) is not within my purview as a father, and I would never call such a requirement an indication of the strength of our relationship. Quite the opposite, actually.

Last edited by JohnT; 06-02-2019 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 06-02-2019, 11:28 PM
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1. As mentioned above, fathers know that teenage guys are horny, and want to ward those away from their daughter.

2. It's much more culturally shameful for a guy to be viewed as a "mommy's boy" (often derided as mabao in Chinese, for instance - "mother's precious") - than for a girl to have a protective father.
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:49 AM
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I agree with several other posters, that father / daughter relationships aren't necessarily "stronger" than mother / son relationships, so much as there may well be a stronger tendency towards protectiveness on the part of fathers with daughters.

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Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
2. It's much more culturally shameful for a guy to be viewed as a "mommy's boy" (often derided as mabao in Chinese, for instance - "mother's precious") - than for a girl to have a protective father.
This much is certain, at least in American culture. Being called "daddy's girl / daddy's little girl" isn't necessarily seen as a negative (and it may well be a term of endearment, in some contexts), but being called "mama's boy" almost always is seen as a negative.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 06-03-2019 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 06-03-2019, 05:02 AM
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Conversely in Spain being called a "mommy's/daddy's son/little boy/daughter/little girl" is a huge insult regardless of genders involved. It means you're a pampered little idiot who doesn't merely expect manna to fall from Heaven but to jump directly into your mouth, and who will run to the mentioned parent for help as soon as anything doesn't go your way.

Last edited by Nava; 06-03-2019 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:00 AM
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If we ignore your odd use of "stronger" the rest is just rudiments of patriarchal tradition.
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:26 AM
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^^ This ^^
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:10 AM
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It seems like most of these threads are regarding the negative aspects of father/daughter and mother/son relationships. I thought of the question differently.

My son and I were very close, but not in a weird way. When my son was born my grandma (dad's mother) told me that a mother is a little boy's first true love and a little boy is a mother's last true love. She was right. My son called me every day just to shoot the breeze for a few minutes or he'd call to ask me, "Mom, what's the name of that song........? or did you ever see the movie...............? We just got along so well. We had the same taste in movies, music, comedy, etc. I'm close to my daughter but in a completely different way. There's just a special bond between moms & sons and fathers & daughters. Dad's want to protect their daughters. I think that's a natural thing. Not a bad thing.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:14 PM
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I'm 52. I have never heard of any of my cohort or our kids being so much as encouraged to seek permission to date, let alone date a particular person. You go with whom you want to go with. I mean, the concept is not foreign to me, but in my mind that's a relic from 1950s and earlier. Oh, and the Mormon kids. Maybe it's still a thing, but I've never heard of it.

I'm definitely a lot closer to my daughters than I am my boys. We can talk about pretty much anything, or spend hours not talking at all, and as soon as one of us pipes up the other knows exactly what the other has been thinking. I don't have that with the boys, they are as clueless as I was at their age. As for dating, well, I've released a couple of quality, self-sufficient women into this world. If someone wants to disrespect either of them, my move is to step back. They can handle themselves just fine. The boys know that 'no means no', and that it's a sign of weakness to get into a fight you know you can win. I've got their backs because I'm the dad, they might have mine if they've got time.

Oh, and I can't stand my mom. Had not much use for her after around Kindergarten, and preferred her absence since before 5th grade. I just found her tiresome and insincere. Which she is.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:16 PM
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I'm 52. I have never heard of any of my cohort or our kids being so much as encouraged to seek permission to date, let alone date a particular person. You go with whom you want to go with. I mean, the concept is not foreign to me, but in my mind that's a relic from 1950s and earlier. Oh, and the Mormon kids. Maybe it's still a thing, but I've never heard of it.
That seems good in theory, but my 14 year old daughter is not going on a date with an 18 year old 3-time felon.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:20 PM
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This attitude is big in Hispanic culture, where my daughter had a group of friends who weren't allowed sleepovers at 12, but their brothers were allowed to at 8.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:35 PM
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That seems good in theory, but my 14 year old daughter is not going on a date with an 18 year old 3-time felon.
If you found out that was a possibility, wouldn't you be more concerned about why she thinks it's a good idea?
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:47 PM
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2. It's much more culturally shameful for a guy to be viewed as a "mommy's boy" (often derided as mabao in Chinese, for instance - "mother's precious") - than for a girl to have a protective father.
Ironically, mamas boy is most often used as an insult by women about men.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:48 PM
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If you found out that was a possibility, wouldn't you be more concerned about why she thinks it's a good idea?
She is 14 would a good answer as any.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:53 PM
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If you found out that was a possibility, wouldn't you be more concerned about why she thinks it's a good idea?
Because she read on this message board that teenagers should be able to date who they want.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:54 PM
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This attitude is big in Hispanic culture, where my daughter had a group of friends who weren't allowed sleepovers at 12, but their brothers were allowed to at 8.
Ehm... that may vary a lot by things such as where the sleepover takes place, who else is in the house and the individual child. My BFF and I slept over at each other's house (and me at her grandparents') quite frequently until age 14, when she got a boyfriend and suddenly all her female friends became supporting cast; her brothers didn't have any friends sleeping over until those friends were singular and of the opposite sex. 1.SiL's first lunch with a family she wasn't related to by blood was the first time she had lunch with my family; her brother's, the first time he had lunch with his first fiance's family; their father was a controlling jerk but no-one can accuse him of not being an equal-opportuniyy controlling jerk, he wanted to control everybody period. All families involved are from the same cultural background.
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:03 PM
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Because she read on this message board that teenagers should be able to date who they want.
Shouldn't they? In your experience, do teenagers respond compliantly to the spirit and letter of prohibitions? In your scenario I'd be concerned about why she wants to date an 18 year old 3x loser in the first place. Not saying I'd bless the arrangement or refrain from strongly discouraging it--but I'm glad my girls had the sense and confidence to avoid shitbags.

Possibly, I'd be more concerned about how an 18 year old has 3 felonies and is still walking the streets--pre-18 convictions most likely having been expunged, I'd say he was having a busy year.
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:05 PM
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The tradition of a young man asking for a father's permission to court his daughter is directly related to the patriarchy and the idea that a man has ownership of the sexuality of the women in his family. It's not related to any kind of "stronger bond" between fathers and daughters.
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:18 PM
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Ehm... that may vary a lot by things such as where the sleepover takes place, who else is in the house and the individual child. My BFF and I slept over at each other's house (and me at her grandparents') quite frequently until age 14, when she got a boyfriend and suddenly all her female friends became supporting cast; her brothers didn't have any friends sleeping over until those friends were singular and of the opposite sex. 1.SiL's first lunch with a family she wasn't related to by blood was the first time she had lunch with my family; her brother's, the first time he had lunch with his first fiance's family; their father was a controlling jerk but no-one can accuse him of not being an equal-opportuniyy controlling jerk, he wanted to control everybody period. All families involved are from the same cultural background.
Point, and on a case-by-case basis I'm sure there was some of this. But SA is 65% Hispanic and this occurred far too often for it to be coincidental, and in our conversations with some of the parents, it was as I said: The younger sons were allowed more agency over their bodies than the older girls.
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:23 PM
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Shouldn't they?
No, they shouldn't.
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:03 PM
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At what point does a young lady get to make her own decisions, then? To get back to the OP, it looks like we're illustrating two different manifestations of 'protective father'. Correct me if I misread you or if you have a better way of saying it, but it sounds like you're more of an authoritarian, "Father knows best" sort of guy. You're an adult who has maybe seen a thing or two and who feels strongly that his experience ought to be respected and accepted--to the point of being allowed to dictate, at least in extreme situations, to help ensure the safety of the younger, less experienced family member. Fair? I don't dislike you, so I won't read Patriarchy crap into any of that.

I've had a different approach which includes letting the kids fail if that's what they're determined to do. Life is about learning, I believe, and experience is the best teacher. In the example of our 18 year old felon, in my head I would be screaming NO! as well. But I would have my daughter explain to me what she sees in this fellow, what she thinks he can offer her, and how she sees the relationship heading. That sort of stuff. My position gets made clear, "I don't like the idea" but eventually the choice is hers. Granted, that's how I raised her and all of her sibs, and she's used to that line of questioning. She does it for herself now when she's got Decisions to make. I am NOT saying "Yes dear, everything that pops into your pretty little head is splendid." But I do set them up to understand potential consequences and to make their own informed choices.
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:09 PM
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In the example of our 18 year old felon, in my head I would be screaming NO! as well. But I would have my daughter explain to me what she sees in this fellow, what she thinks he can offer her, and how she sees the relationship heading. That sort of stuff. My position gets made clear, "I don't like the idea" but eventually the choice is hers.
And if she says "I don't know, he just seems super cool. And he has a van! And his own apartment!"

You'd let your 14 year old daughter date a guy like that? I'm reluctant to believe that.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:57 PM
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At what point does a young lady get to make her own decisions, then? To get back to the OP, it looks like we're illustrating two different manifestations of 'protective father'. Correct me if I misread you or if you have a better way of saying it, but it sounds like you're more of an authoritarian, "Father knows best" sort of guy. You're an adult who has maybe seen a thing or two and who feels strongly that his experience ought to be respected and accepted--to the point of being allowed to dictate, at least in extreme situations, to help ensure the safety of the younger, less experienced family member. Fair? I don't dislike you, so I won't read Patriarchy crap into any of that.

I've had a different approach which includes letting the kids fail if that's what they're determined to do. Life is about learning, I believe, and experience is the best teacher. In the example of our 18 year old felon, in my head I would be screaming NO! as well. But I would have my daughter explain to me what she sees in this fellow, what she thinks he can offer her, and how she sees the relationship heading. That sort of stuff. My position gets made clear, "I don't like the idea" but eventually the choice is hers. Granted, that's how I raised her and all of her sibs, and she's used to that line of questioning. She does it for herself now when she's got Decisions to make. I am NOT saying "Yes dear, everything that pops into your pretty little head is splendid." But I do set them up to understand potential consequences and to make their own informed choices.
I know this wasn't directed at me, but in my opinion there are times when you have to let children make their own mistakes, they learn from them and move on. However there are some mistakes that have consequences that last many years, or even for the rest of that person's life, the kind of mistakes where you can't just dust yourself off and walk away from with a lesson learned.

Depending on the age of the child, you ultimately only have so much control, but I do think it's ok to be authoritarian sometimes with a child if you are steering them away from not a simple mistake they will learn from, but a dumpster fire with possible long-term ramifications that might last years or the rest of their life and very well may ruin their life.
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Old 06-04-2019, 12:15 AM
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And if she says "I don't know, he just seems super cool. And he has a van! And his own apartment!"

You'd let your 14 year old daughter date a guy like that? I'm reluctant to believe that.
How would you stop her, short of chaining her to the bed?
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:22 AM
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She's 14. Therefore, she doesn't drive. Not too sure chaining is necessary.

Last edited by JohnT; 06-04-2019 at 06:22 AM.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:27 AM
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Does she go to school? Ever leave the house?

Several of my classmates were in a hurry to "get men". They got men all right, if you consider that someone who's a human male capable of impregnating a human female is a "man". The sex didn't take place with parental approval, but no amount of parental disapproval deterred it.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:39 AM
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The tradition of a young man asking for a father's permission to court his daughter is directly related to the patriarchy and the idea that a man has ownership of the sexuality of the women in his family. It's not related to any kind of "stronger bond" between fathers and daughters.
Absolute truth there. Same with asking permission (or blessing) from bride's father in marriage and with fathers literally giving away daughters in marriage. Which, of course, not everyone does.

The idea that fathers have more ownership over their daughters and over who their daughters date or have sex with that they do over their sons and who their sons date and have sex with is extremely sexist and is disgusting from my point of view.

And I keep seeing "dads know teenage boys are horny and that's why they act that way about daughters dating" - which completely disregards the girl's own agency in choosing who she has sex with or the possibility of her being horny. I bet most such dads don't give nearly so much worry to their son dating a horny girl who wants to have sex. Teen daughter having consensual sex with peer - "oh hell no". Teen son having consensual sex with peer - "atta boy."
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:52 AM
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And if she says "I don't know, he just seems super cool. And he has a van! And his own apartment!"

You'd let your 14 year old daughter date a guy like that? I'm reluctant to believe that.
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How would you stop her, short of chaining her to the bed?
just what i was going to ask.

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She's 14. Therefore, she doesn't drive. Not too sure chaining is necessary.
He has a van. Does she leave the house? Get out of your sight where the boyfriend can pick her up?
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:01 AM
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I don't understand this reasoning. Your children don't have any rules at all? You don't forbid them from doing anything, since they can always do it when you are not around?

That just seems strange to me.
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:16 AM
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The tradition of a young man asking for a father's permission to court his daughter is directly related to the patriarchy and the idea that a man has ownership of the sexuality of the women in his family. It's not related to any kind of "stronger bond" between fathers and daughters.
I don't see it this way as much as the (somewhat historic, but not entirely) view that men tend to be more physically and emotionally dominant in a relationship. Couple this with the fact that many fathers see it is their job to protect their family.

If a man has a son, then he has less to worry about from a dating relationship. The girlfriend is less likely to rape him, beat him up, treat him badly, etc. The father assumes the boy can "be a man" and handle the relationship as needed.

However, if he has a daughter, he sees the suitor as someone who can easily become more physically and emotionally dominant over his daughter. He is going to pour much more scrutiny on the daughter's boyfriend/husband.

Of course, we are only talking about traditional hetero relationships here.
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:22 AM
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I don't understand this reasoning. Your children don't have any rules at all? You don't forbid them from doing anything, since they can always do it when you are not around?

That just seems strange to me.
Yes, a completely bizarre sentiment. "This felon is going to get in my 14yo's pants anyway, so why should I even bother to act like a parent?"
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Old 06-04-2019, 11:12 AM
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When my kids were little I told them what to do. When they turned 13 I started backing off. I didn't say, "wear your suit to this event", I said "people dress up for this, and your suit would be appropriate."

Would I say, "don't date this adult felon"? I'm not sure. Nothing like that ever came up. I would surely have tried to end the relationship, but probably not by forbidding it.

My then-teenage son was awfully cuddly with a woman who was unambiguously too old for my comfort. But:

1) I decided I trusted her not to get pregnant, and not to infect him with anything awful. (I knew her)
2) They both told mutual friends that they weren't a couple. That was obviously not true, but I took it to mean they weren't actually having sex. (She is poly, so she had several boyfriends and some girlfriends at the time.)
3) I had told the kids that if they loved someone, they should be careful not to have sex with that person while they were underage, because if anyone later wanted to cause problems, that was a felony in our state.

So I decided not to say anything. They eventually broke up. I don't believe any harm was done.

Last edited by puzzlegal; 06-04-2019 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 06-04-2019, 11:39 AM
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I don't understand this reasoning. Your children don't have any rules at all? You don't forbid them from doing anything, since they can always do it when you are not around?

That just seems strange to me.
No, children under my care* have always had rules, but the idea that a girl who's stupid will stop being so because her father is a controlling jerk is...


yeah. It's at least as stupid as the girl.




* IANALegalParent but I parented two brothers and frequently herded or co-herded up to 25 younger children. Apparently I also had an absurd amount of influence among oodles of the Bros' classmates, being one of those rare gronwups whose default mode when meeting someone is to assume ownership of a functioning brain.
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  #39  
Old 06-04-2019, 11:46 AM
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I don't see it this way as much as the (somewhat historic, but not entirely) view that men tend to be more physically and emotionally dominant in a relationship. Couple this with the fact that many fathers see it is their job to protect their family.

If a man has a son, then he has less to worry about from a dating relationship. The girlfriend is less likely to rape him, beat him up, treat him badly, etc. The father assumes the boy can "be a man" and handle the relationship as needed.

However, if he has a daughter, he sees the suitor as someone who can easily become more physically and emotionally dominant over his daughter. He is going to pour much more scrutiny on the daughter's boyfriend/husband.

Of course, we are only talking about traditional hetero relationships here.
There are sexist or paternalistic or misogynistic assumptions underlying pretty much every sentence of this post.
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Last edited by Acsenray; 06-04-2019 at 11:46 AM.
  #40  
Old 06-04-2019, 12:20 PM
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There are sexist or paternalistic or misogynistic assumptions underlying pretty much every sentence of this post.
What is it about the assumption that girls are less likely to rape boys than vice versa that makes it paternalistic, misogynistic, or sexist?

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  #41  
Old 06-04-2019, 01:20 PM
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There are sexist or paternalistic or misogynistic assumptions underlying pretty much every sentence of this post.
I am sorry you feel that way.

Note also I didn't say that this is the way the world should be. I said that is the way the majority of our culture is.

The vast majority of violence and abuse in the world is done by men. Daughters will mostly date men. Therefore, parents will have more emphasis on protecting their daughters.

I know that doesn't line up with your sexist/evil patriarchy view of the world, but oh well.
  #42  
Old 06-04-2019, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Nava View Post
No, children under my care* have always had rules, but the idea that a girl who's stupid will stop being so because her father is a controlling jerk is...


yeah. It's at least as stupid as the girl.




* IANALegalParent but I parented two brothers and frequently herded or co-herded up to 25 younger children. Apparently I also had an absurd amount of influence among oodles of the Bros' classmates, being one of those rare gronwups whose default mode when meeting someone is to assume ownership of a functioning brain.
Well, with your extensive experience as a father to a daughter, I'm sure you think "Not letting your 14 year old daughter date an 18 year felon" is controlling jerk behavior. I happen to disagree.

What about taking drugs? Am I allowed to forbid my kids from taking Ecstasy and going to orgies/raves? Or is that controlling jerk behavior too?
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Old 06-04-2019, 02:54 PM
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There are sexist or paternalistic or misogynistic assumptions underlying pretty much every sentence of this post.
You think parents should worry about their sons being raped as much as they do about their daughters being raped?
  #44  
Old 06-04-2019, 03:39 PM
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You think parents should worry about their sons being raped as much as they do about their daughters being raped?
They should probably spend a little more time worrying about their sons being rapists.
  #45  
Old 06-04-2019, 03:49 PM
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I'm finding the OP and some of the replies oddly stereotypical. Some girls are "mama's girls." I was one, and so is my daughter. Her dad was somewhat disengaged: I was the one who laid down the law. Same with my son. There are lots of single parents out there who are filling both roles.

And what about same-sex couples? You think all the same-sex dads have an equally protective relationship with their daughters but not their sons, and vice-versa for same-sex moms?

Of course this varies somewhat by culture, but even then, there can be differences between how protective a father is toward one daughter and how protective he is toward the other(s). Kids' needs and personalities vary.

Last edited by nelliebly; 06-04-2019 at 03:49 PM.
  #46  
Old 06-04-2019, 04:15 PM
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...Of course this varies somewhat by culture, but even then, there can be differences between how protective a father is toward one daughter and how protective he is toward the other(s). Kids' needs and personalities vary.
So true! When I was in high school, I was routinely allowed to stay out as long as I wanted. (which was rarely super-late, but the rule was "let us know when to expect you".) When I visited colleges, I went to some on my own (for overnight trips) and my father sent me on an errand driving a medical sample out-of-state for him as a side-trip visiting one of them. I also had "adult" responsibilities at home -- my dad was deathly allergic to bees, and he showed me where he had put syringes of epinephrine (this was before epi-pens) and instructed me on how to inject him if he needed it.

In contrast, he was very protective of my little sister, and insisted she be home by 10PM. She was basically never treated as an adult. My mother finally had to lay down the law, point out that he and she had stayed out later than 10, and over-rule my father to let my sister have a normal social life. Our experiences were extremely different.
  #47  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Well, with your extensive experience as a father to a daughter, I'm sure you think "Not letting your 14 year old daughter date an 18 year felon" is controlling jerk behavior. I happen to disagree.

What about taking drugs? Am I allowed to forbid my kids from taking Ecstasy and going to orgies/raves? Or is that controlling jerk behavior too?
Sorry, had to actually work today. I really don't want to minimize the deviant with the candy van because although the particulars are campy I can read it as code for any number of really dumb choices a 14 y/o can make. And my oldest, although an upstanding 23 year-old woman now, was a major pain in my ass when she was 14. Looking back, I think the hardest thing about parenting is understanding they are going to do what they want to do--just like we did--and the louder you shriek "No!" at them, the more they'll want to do it. Really all you can do is try to instill some confidence in them while they're young, so that when they're wrestling with the dumb choice they at least don't make decisions to get the approval of someone else. The rest is paying attention and maintaining credibility so you can walk them through the potentially stupid thing. And a huge chunk of luck. I could be wrong, but any reasonably attentive parent won't be taken by surprise if they get confronted with a Mr. CandyVan scenario.

So what about drugs. Same as above--explain the drawbacks, acknowledge the good bits, keep an eye on how it may be affecting the kid's life and intervene when necessary. Above all, recognize the kid will do it anyway if they want, and do what you can to make the experience safe from dangers and the law. If that means at home, then grit your teeth because that's what it means. Orgies, raves, pool parties, school, malls, friends' houses...all are places where kids are known to 1) take whatever drugs they want and, 2) screw. Solution: education and birth control. Both daughters were HPV vaccinated and armed with IUDs by the time they were 14. They asked, and they received. The boys...we did what we could for them, short of vasectomies (which my bio son has wanted since he was 17). But all that is just MY idea of being a protective parent. A parent can't kill all the wolves in the woods to keep his family safe, but he can sure as hell arm his family and teach them about wolves.
  #48  
Old 06-04-2019, 07:11 PM
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There are sexist or paternalistic or misogynistic assumptions underlying pretty much every sentence of this post.
Sometimes the truth is misogynist and paternalistic. Doesn't make it fair, necessarily, but facts are facts.
  #49  
Old 06-04-2019, 07:14 PM
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They should probably spend a little more time worrying about their sons being rapists.
Yes, I agree.
  #50  
Old 06-04-2019, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya View Post
Sorry, had to actually work today. I really don't want to minimize the deviant with the candy van because although the particulars are campy I can read it as code for any number of really dumb choices a 14 y/o can make. And my oldest, although an upstanding 23 year-old woman now, was a major pain in my ass when she was 14. Looking back, I think the hardest thing about parenting is understanding they are going to do what they want to do--just like we did--and the louder you shriek "No!" at them, the more they'll want to do it. Really all you can do is try to instill some confidence in them while they're young, so that when they're wrestling with the dumb choice they at least don't make decisions to get the approval of someone else. The rest is paying attention and maintaining credibility so you can walk them through the potentially stupid thing. And a huge chunk of luck. I could be wrong, but any reasonably attentive parent won't be taken by surprise if they get confronted with a Mr. CandyVan scenario.

So what about drugs. Same as above--explain the drawbacks, acknowledge the good bits, keep an eye on how it may be affecting the kid's life and intervene when necessary. Above all, recognize the kid will do it anyway if they want, and do what you can to make the experience safe from dangers and the law. If that means at home, then grit your teeth because that's what it means. Orgies, raves, pool parties, school, malls, friends' houses...all are places where kids are known to 1) take whatever drugs they want and, 2) screw. Solution: education and birth control. Both daughters were HPV vaccinated and armed with IUDs by the time they were 14. They asked, and they received. The boys...we did what we could for them, short of vasectomies (which my bio son has wanted since he was 17). But all that is just MY idea of being a protective parent. A parent can't kill all the wolves in the woods to keep his family safe, but he can sure as hell arm his family and teach them about wolves.
Thanks, this makes a lot of sense. But if your doorbell rings, and your 14 year old daughter answers it, and then says "Hey Dad, my friends are here to take me to the drug orgy, see you later!" you just say "Ok, have fun. Remember what I taught you!" or you say "Yeah, I don't think so"?
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