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  #5101  
Old 06-12-2018, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by eschereal View Post
That is kind of SOP, though. Manafort is entitled to defend himself, and his defense is entitled to see what he is being attacked with. Surprise witnesses and unexpected evidence exist in Hollywood and on TV, real courts not so much.
Apparently this particular type of disclosure is not SOP, according to the judge herself:

Quote:
"While the government may be correct that the law does not necessarily require the Court to order the requested disclosure, the Court has broad discretion to resolve a motion for a bill of particulars after weighing the parties’ interests, and here, defendant is obliged to prepare for a complex trial ..."
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...anafort-638800

A concern of the Mueller team is that

Quote:
... that list—once turned over—will effectively cabin the government's case on the foreign-lobbying issue since prosecutors will be likely be unable to present evidence about businesses or people not on it.
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  #5102  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
Tell me if I'm seeing this correctly: thump and his minis (I'm lookin' at you, Rudy) are running around pre-emptively saying what they are or aren't going to do when <FITB>*, and what recourse the president might or might not have, or how they will react if Mueller does one thing or another... but I don't see Mueller overtly throwing down any gauntlet. He and his tightly buttoned-up crew are going quietly about their task, behind closed doors, not leaking anything. I see thump tilting at hypothetical windmills located where he thinks there are going to be windmills, but the windmills are still being assembled at the windmill factory. Right now, he's waving his dinky sword in the air.

People are complaining that this investigation is taking too long, but the longer it takes and the larger Mueller's silence looms, the crazier it makes thump and the dumber he reveals himself to be. Win-win.


*Fill in the blank
This investigation has not gone on very long at all, compared to other investigations. I think I listed them earlier upthread. What's more, this investigation has already yielded indictments and guilty pleas.
  #5103  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:59 PM
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Is this who y'all really want Mueller to be? Because I think I'd rather have him be truly, utterly impartial, methodically pursuing truth without any particular end in mind. He should be a prosecutor, not a political actor, and he should be aiming at uncovering truth and convicting criminals. He shouldn't be trying to exact justice through the electoral process.
I have to agree, as much as I despise this bunch. We had enough of the "political actor" bullshit from Comey and look what happened.
  #5104  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:05 AM
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Pass the popcorn:

Quote:
Former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen likely to cooperate as his attorneys leave case, sources say

As attorneys for Michael Cohen rush to meet Judge Kimba Wood’s Friday deadline to complete a privilege review of over 3.7 million documents seized in the April 9 raids of Cohen’s New York properties and law office, a source representing this matter has disclosed to ABC News that the law firm handling the case for Cohen is not expected to represent him going forward....

Cohen, now with no legal representation, is likely to cooperate with federal prosecutors in New York, sources said. This development, which is believed to be imminent, will likely hit the White House, family members, staffers and counsels hard....
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  #5105  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:30 AM
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Trump tweetstorm in 10....9...8...
  #5106  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:33 AM
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Holy crap. If your own consigliere flips on you, you're pretty fucked.

Some reporter I follow in Twitter (sorry, can't find it at the moment) said yesterday that Cohen was telling friends he expected to be arrested soon. Cohen denied that.
  #5107  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:41 AM
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MSNBC reports that Mueller just requested 75 blank subpoenas in the Manafort trial. Not being a lawyer, I'm not sure what the significance of that is, but I'm guessing it's bad news for Manafort and a whole lot of other people.

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/100...149889025?s=19
  #5108  
Old 06-13-2018, 11:05 AM
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MSNBC reports that Mueller just requested 75 blank subpoenas in the Manafort trial. Not being a lawyer, I'm not sure what the significance of that is, but I'm guessing it's bad news for Manafort and a whole lot of other people.

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/100...149889025?s=19
It's pretty standard, you just get the pre-signed subpoenas from the court so you can get documents and witnesses to show up at the trial. You want to ask for as many as you could possibly use since otherwise you keep having to go back for more, and this isn't an atypical number for a big white-collar case.
  #5109  
Old 06-13-2018, 09:11 PM
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It's pretty standard, you just get the pre-signed subpoenas from the court so you can get documents and witnesses to show up at the trial. You want to ask for as many as you could possibly use since otherwise you keep having to go back for more, and this isn't an atypical number for a big white-collar case.
Dammit, there you go dashing my hopes with the facts again.

Last edited by Defensive Indifference; 06-13-2018 at 09:11 PM.
  #5110  
Old 06-13-2018, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Bayard View Post
MSNBC reports that Mueller just requested 75 blank subpoenas in the Manafort trial. Not being a lawyer, I'm not sure what the significance of that is, but I'm guessing it's bad news for Manafort and a whole lot of other people.

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/100...149889025?s=19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambrosio Spinola View Post
It's pretty standard, you just get the pre-signed subpoenas from the court so you can get documents and witnesses to show up at the trial. You want to ask for as many as you could possibly use since otherwise you keep having to go back for more, and this isn't an atypical number for a big white-collar case.
Point made, but unless I'm mistaken, this is not the first time he's requested a large number of blank subpoenas.
  #5111  
Old 06-13-2018, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
Point made, but unless I'm mistaken, this is not the first time he's requested a large number of blank subpoenas.
and I doubt it will be the last.
  #5112  
Old 06-14-2018, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
Point made, but unless I'm mistaken, this is not the first time he's requested a large number of blank subpoenas.
Correct:

Now being listed as 150 this week - "Mueller requests 150 blank subpoenas in Manafort case"

70 around May 3rd - "Robert Mueller requests 70 more blank subpoenas ahead of Manafort trial"

35 on April 11th - "Mueller Seeks Subpoenas for 35 Witnesses for Manafort Trial"
  #5113  
Old 06-14-2018, 11:57 AM
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BTW, some law-talking guy posted before that they need to get two blank subpoenas for each potential witness - something like one copy for the court and one for the subpoenee.
  #5114  
Old 06-14-2018, 02:04 PM
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New York has sued President Trump, plus Eric, Donald Jr., Ivanka, and the Trump Foundation for numerous counts of malfeasance related to the Foundation.

Quote:
The foundation was also used to curry political favor, the lawsuit asserts. During the 2016 race, the foundation became a virtual arm of Mr. Trump’s campaign, email traffic showed, with his campaign manager Corey Lewandowski directing its expenditures, even though such foundations are explicitly prohibited from political activities.
This is very serious, and has the chance to easily snowball into something much, much bigger than white-collar NPO shenanigans.

New York has referred the matter to the IRS for investigation as well.
  #5115  
Old 06-14-2018, 02:35 PM
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The matter was also referred to the Federal Election Commission, which may end up having more to do with Mueller's investigation than anything else about the filing of the suit by NY AG Barbara Underwood against the Trump Foundation. Otherwise, I'm not seeing how this is the thread for posting about this filing.

Nonetheless, I did think the filing of the suit was the best birthday present ever to Trump.
  #5116  
Old 06-14-2018, 05:24 PM
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It's more relevant because of the IRS referral; Trump's foundation is all entwined with Cohen, the kids, and all sorts of financial irregularities that have a Nexus with Trump's businesses and the Russians.
  #5117  
Old 06-14-2018, 05:33 PM
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Any bets that Trump is on the phone with the IRS even as we speak?

“Hey Kelly...the IRS—that’s a government thing, right? That means they work for me, right?”

Last edited by jsc1953; 06-14-2018 at 05:35 PM.
  #5118  
Old 06-15-2018, 09:57 AM
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Cohen indicates to family that he has flipped.
  #5119  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:01 AM
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Cohen indicates to family that he has flipped.
From the article:
Quote:
Cohen has expressed anger with the treatment he has gotten from the President, who has minimized his relationship with Cohen, and comments from the President's lawyer Rudy Giuliani, the source said. The treatment has left him feeling isolated and more open to cooperating, the source said.
You don't say!
  #5120  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:14 AM
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Cohen indicates to family that he has flipped.
Let's not jump the gun here. He's indicated to family that he's willing to talk about flipping.
  #5121  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:16 AM
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A few days ago, Rachel Maddow ran a piece on the parallels between Cohen and Nixon's personal lawyer / fixer / bagman, Herb Kalmbach. Herb felt abandoned by Nixon and flipped on him.

My, my. These guys never learn. If there's one person you want to make sure is always 100% happy, it's the one who knows where the bodies are buried. (Which I'm not sure is just a metaphor in this case.)
  #5122  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:04 AM
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Manafort's going to jail.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.35e43ff8b13a
  #5123  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:28 AM
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Manafort’s last tweet before jail:

“President Donald J. Trump!
Nothing more to say except now it is time "To Make America Great Again"!

Pardon is his last chance.
  #5124  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:33 AM
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So pardoning Manafort = MAGA???

We sure do have different definitions of the word "great".
  #5125  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:42 AM
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Throw him under the bus like so many others, Donnie. Pardoning ain't gonna help, and might make things worse, when states come knockin'.
  #5126  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:46 AM
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He'll just have to wait until he's convicted. I don't think pardoning him now will clear up his bond violation. Enjoy jail.
  #5127  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
Manafort’s last tweet before jail:

“President Donald J. Trump!
Nothing more to say except now it is time "To Make America Great Again"!

Pardon is his last chance.
Wait, is this for real?
  #5128  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:22 PM
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"Mr. Mueller? Mr. Cohen on line one, Mr. Manafort on line two...."
"Take a message."
  #5129  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:22 PM
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Wait, is this for real?
It is absolutely for real. However, that tweet, his last, was from December 19, 2016.
  #5130  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:23 PM
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Wait, is this for real?
Technically.
  #5131  
Old 06-15-2018, 01:52 PM
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A Thread for the Mueller Investigation Results and Outcomes


Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Wiggler View Post
Wait, is this for real?


Well, he hasn’t tweeted in awhile!

Daily News is quoting Giuliani:

"things might get cleaned up with some presidential pardons" when the "whole thing is over".

Last edited by Fiveyearlurker; 06-15-2018 at 01:55 PM.
  #5132  
Old 06-15-2018, 02:22 PM
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Trump told Fox News that it doesn't matter if he lies to the American public as long as he doesn't do it under oath.
https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/...12998616305664
  #5133  
Old 06-15-2018, 03:37 PM
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Trump told Fox News that it doesn't matter if he lies to the American public as long as he doesn't do it under oath.
https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/...12998616305664
Why isn't this shit impeachable? He fucking works for us. Guess he don't know that either.
  #5134  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:52 PM
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Why isn't this shit impeachable? He fucking works for us. Guess he don't know that either.
Of course it's impeachable - sneezing wrong is impeachable, if you can get enough of the legislative branch mad about it.

That's the problem, of course - the bulk of the current legislative branch wouldn't impeach him even if he ordered the national guard to shoot the supreme court.
  #5135  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:01 PM
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Of course it's impeachable - sneezing wrong is impeachable, if you can get enough of the legislative branch mad about it.

That's the problem, of course - the bulk of the current legislative branch wouldn't impeach him even if he ordered the national guard to shoot the supreme court.
I'm beginning to wonder if there is anything this loser "president" could do that would get him impeached by republicans.
  #5136  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:03 PM
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Of course it's impeachable - sneezing wrong is impeachable, if you can get enough of the legislative branch mad about it.

That's the problem, of course - the bulk of the current legislative branch wouldn't impeach him even if he ordered the national guard to shoot the supreme court.
He wouldn't do that.

Not the whole court, anyway, just the left side.

But, we shouldn't give him any ideas. Shhhh.
  #5137  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:15 PM
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See, that's where I'm still lost. Not all republicans can look away all the time. I think they would look fantastic to even the trumpeters if they put Pence in charge. The evangelicals would at least love that.
  #5138  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:28 PM
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I have a feeling that Peter Strzok's text message(s) are going to be amplified in the days ahead and used as proof that the deep state tried to doom Trump's campaign and presidency from the beginning. Donald Macbeth is increasingly desperate.
  #5139  
Old 06-16-2018, 01:13 AM
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I have a feeling that Peter Strzok's text message(s) are going to be amplified in the days ahead and used as proof that the deep state tried to doom Trump's campaign and presidency from the beginning.
Oh, you have that feeling do you?

Quote:
"[Deputy Attorney General Rod] Rosenstein and [Attorney General] Jeff Sessions have a chance to redeem themselves and that chance comes about tomorrow. It doesn't go beyond tomorrow. Tomorrow, [special counsel Robert] Mueller should be suspended and honest people should be brought in, impartial people to investigate these people like [FBI agent] Peter Strzok. Strzok should be in jail by the end of next week."
That's America's mayor 24 hours ago.
  #5140  
Old 06-16-2018, 07:42 AM
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I'm beginning to wonder if there is anything this loser "president" could do that would get him impeached by republicans.
"I was only joking, Hillary's actually not that bad."
  #5141  
Old 06-16-2018, 08:52 AM
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He wouldn't do that.

Not the whole court, anyway, just the left side.

But, we shouldn't give him any ideas. Shhhh.
Yep, but that's the thing. He WAS a democrat when it suited him. Even a friend of the Clintons .

His only political, cultural or social allies are himself, and anyone that can enrich him. This can change as the wind blows. That's his entire business model. He uses threats against his allies to try to obtain his goal. He is a simple minded bully. And now, he has a very, very large gun. Pretty much the economy of the entire world. (I have to wonder who is advising him on the shit he pulls).

And of course, any 'enemy' becomes a friend if they kiss his ring.
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  #5142  
Old 06-16-2018, 08:56 AM
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I have a feeling that Peter Strzok's text message(s) are going to be amplified in the days ahead and used as proof that the deep state tried to doom Trump's campaign and presidency from the beginning. Donald Macbeth is increasingly desperate.
Please explain what the 'Deep State' is. And give cites and any evidence of it.
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  #5143  
Old 06-16-2018, 09:41 AM
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Please explain what the 'Deep State' is. And give cites and any evidence of it.
That's like asking someone to define the Cthulhu Mythos. If you're looking for cites and evidence, you should ask someone who actually believes there is such a thing as the "Deep State".
  #5144  
Old 06-16-2018, 10:24 AM
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Apologies if I misread/understood asahi's comment. It's been a busy week and a bit hard to keep up. Next, emergency visit for my dog to the vet. I leave in 10 minutes.

Yesterday, contractor cut through the power to my well, I had to splice it back together so we had water. Next weekend, company from out of state.
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  #5145  
Old 06-16-2018, 10:32 AM
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"Deep State" is a term you never heard until trump became president. It's basically alt-right terminology for career bureaucrats whose loyalty is not to any the current administration, but to the nation itself. Not to the Red or Blue, but to the Red, White, and Blue. Sorry, no cites, just my own take on it.
  #5146  
Old 06-16-2018, 11:18 AM
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I've always understood Deep State meaning conspiracy theory that says co-operating net of hold-overs from previous administration are still secretly trying to advance the agenda of their financiers while trying to undermine the current administration

And also, no cites, just my own take on it. More sinister than E-DUB's take, so in a way better for conspiracy theorists ( which I am not )
  #5147  
Old 06-16-2018, 11:26 AM
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SaneBill, that seems to assume that believers in the Deep State don't consider ANY non-aligned bureaucrat (i.e., civil service) to be enemies of the current administration. I'm pretty sure the whole Deep State thing presuppposes that if a given government worker hasn't declared loyalty to the Orange Turd, he or she is Deep State and should be rooted out.
  #5148  
Old 06-16-2018, 11:49 AM
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"I was only joking, Hillary's actually not that bad."
no - when he nominates Hillary for SoS, then he will get the wrath - and I am betting that the majority of his followers would still think he's smart to do it.
  #5149  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:05 PM
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Perhaps, jayjay, but how could they know who is NOT part of that secret society. One key to seem 'innocent' is to appear non-aligned on the surface - while DEEP down being aligned. Therefore it's better to suspect them all and root them out.
Or something. I really don't think these things much as I don't buy them. Trust me.
  #5150  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:16 PM
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Perhaps, jayjay, but how could they know who is NOT part of that secret society. One key to seem 'innocent' is to appear non-aligned on the surface - while DEEP down being aligned. Therefore it's better to suspect them all and root them out.
Or something. I really don't think these things much as I don't buy them. Trust me.
It makes my head hurt to get into the "but they know that we know that they know that we know that they know that we know..." stuff. I'm not cut out to be the ridiculous kind of conspiracy theorist.
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