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  #351  
Old 06-26-2018, 12:52 PM
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wolfpup I see you have a lot of time on your hands, and you take a lot of time getting to the point of admitting that I was correct in all my claims. Understood that you're trying to bury this under a barrage of verbiage, but still. Do you have a job?
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Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
Instead he wants to talk about "higher utilization". OK, let's do that.

Here's the first clue (emphasis mine):
Waste is caused by factors such as health insurance and medical uncertainties that encourage the production of inefficient and low-value services ... none of the health care system's players have strong incentives to economize ... Insurance and medical uncertainties muffle price competition and, in our litigious climate, promote overscreening and overtreatment.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2690367/
Over-utilization in the private insurance system is a problem, not a feature. The "utilization" argument is a smokescreen -- a deceptive artifice -- to avoid having to confront this obvious and intrinsic failing that is always present when health insurance is operated as a business rather than a public service. In actual fact, in comparing Canada and the US, utilization is actually higher in Canada for disadvantaged subgroups and about the same, or sometimes higher in the US, for high-income groups -- but virtually all of that utilization is on minor and often redundant and wasteful matters like unnecessary testing, often from mercenary motivations. Serious conditions, especially chronic ones, are routinely subject to claims denials under private insurance, as noted by my previous link.

IOW, you get higher utilization on trivia but are always at risk of being denied the important, even lifesaving, stuff.
This is the first example. After a lot of longwinded gasbagging, you're gotten around to admitting that utilization is higher in the US than Canada, despite the insurance villains etc.

What you're now falling back on is that it's (for whatever reason) not the important stuff but the unimportant stuff. OK, let's assume that's completely true. Problem for you here is that this does not contradict anything I've said in this thread or in the prior one.

My posts on the subject are available and anyone with integrity - a category which strongly excludes wolfpup - will see that there's nothing there about which type of utilization is more or less important (or more generally about which system is better altogether). The context of my posts was about whether the new Amazon etc. effort would be successful in controlling costs, and my comment was that the US system promoted high utilization, which would hamper this. There is not the slightest indication in any of this as to whether that utilization was a good idea or not.

Unfortunately, what you sometimes get around here is people who are long on intense passion and short on both intelligence and integrity - like wolfpup, in short - who seize on any perceived threat to their beloved Cause and leap into battle. But the facts are what they are, nonetheless.

Quote:
As for "tough in terms of getting service", yeah, you and Fox News love that line. It's true that one typically has to wait for most purely elective procedures, from considerations of efficient resource utilization (it's called queuing theory).
So once again, you agree with my claim, though with your typical dishonesty are pretending to do otherwise.
  #352  
Old 06-26-2018, 12:53 PM
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wolfpup, you've been on a smackdown streak lately; keep up the good work, brother!

I wish there was a way to do the equivalent of filming David Hasselhoff when he was drunk and then having him watch the video later when he was sober with someone like F-P and their posting.

It would be great to see his face as he realized how baseless his arguments were (when there were any present), how omnipresent the insults and attempts at belittlement and how badly he comes across.

Sadly, I fear that his condition precludes any such self-awareness and this will most likely just remain a pleasant fantasy of mine.
  #353  
Old 06-26-2018, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
After a lot of longwinded gasbagging, you're gotten around to admitting that utilization is higher in the US than Canada, despite the insurance villains etc.
Gee, I thought what I showed was that the "higher utilization" claim was calculated, manipulative deception by lying industry shills like yourself; that it pertained to useless trivia that produced no results; that it pertained to a problem that health care economists are trying to solve; that the victims of private insurance are subject to endless bureaucracy and denial of real and vital health care; and that this bureaucracy is intrinsic to private insurance.

So in claiming that "people can choose whatever medical care they want without approval from bureaucrats" you have been shown to be a mendacious, manipulative, lying sack of shit with no apparent principles whatsoever. People are dying from denial of health care and you're having fun claiming that you won teh internets because the US private insurance system really does have wasteful useless over-utilization, and therefore must be Da Bomb! You are truly a reprehensible piece of work. And your obvious lack of knowledge and dishonesty is both clear and appalling.
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Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
So once again, you agree with my claim, though with your typical dishonesty are pretending to do otherwise.
If you add in the part that you lopped off from what I actually said, which was my actual point, it's obvious to any sane person that I'm directly contradicting your claim and showing it to be the usual shilling and stupidity that we've come to expect from you.
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Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
wolfpup, you've been on a smackdown streak lately; keep up the good work, brother!
Actually, I think of myself as just injecting the occasional fact or two and then watching Fotheringay-Phipps entangle himself in his own lies!

Last edited by wolfpup; 06-26-2018 at 01:51 PM.
  #354  
Old 06-26-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
Gee, I thought what I showed was that the "higher utilization" claim was calculated, manipulative deception by lying industry shills like yourself; that it pertained to useless trivia that produced no results; that it pertained to a problem that health care economists are trying to solve; that the victims of private insurance are subject to endless bureaucracy and denial of real and vital health care; and that this bureaucracy is intrinsic to private insurance.

So in claiming that "people can choose whatever medical care they want without approval from bureaucrats" you have been shown to be a mendacious, manipulative, lying sack of shit with no apparent principles whatsoever. People are dying from denial of health care and you're having fun claiming that you won teh internets because the US private insurance system really does have wasteful useless over-utilization, and therefore must be Da Bomb! You are truly a reprehensible piece of work. And your obvious lack of knowledge and dishonesty is both clear and appalling.
This is just a lot of insults with zero substance.

To be clear, I have no issue with insults, and have been known to occasionally engage in a bit of that myself. But you've got to have some substance to back it up. To completely concede the substantive point and have your entire post consist of covering it up via harsh language is pathetic. Not that it doesn't become you, though.

Quote:
If you add in the part that you lopped off from what I actually said, which was my actual point, it's obvious to any sane person that I'm directly contradicting your claim and showing it to be the usual shilling and stupidity that we've come to expect from you.
I repeat my earlier statement. You conceded my point entirely - and nothing "lopped off" changed that - but just covered it in verbiage and heated language. See also above.
  #355  
Old 06-26-2018, 02:05 PM
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This is just a lot of insults with zero substance.
Pot to accused kettle: "Hey, you're black!"
  #356  
Old 06-26-2018, 02:11 PM
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Pot to accused kettle: "Hey, you're black!"
Unsurprising. You're not someone capable of understanding anything substantive. But then, that post was not directed to you.
  #357  
Old 06-26-2018, 02:21 PM
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Keep on keepin' on, F-P, this is great. "nyuh-uh, I was right and you was wrong" repeated endlessly in the face of all evidence to the contrary is always a great winning proposition. For a moron, at least. But I'm not going to say that I was wasting my time, because I knew what I was dealing with, and my goal was to expose your fundamental dishonesty. That dishonesty has now reached an epic stage rarely seen in normal discussion, except perhaps in lunatic asylums, the only place where I imagine it's routine to just casually ignore in-your-face reality.

It's also apparent that, completely aside from being egregiously dishonest, you know absolutely nothing about how health care works outside of the United States, and I'll charitably assume that if you did you wouldn't be quite so transparently fucking stupid. No sane rational person, no matter how partisan, or what health care model they favor, actually believes your comical proposition that there isn't intrusive bureaucracy in the private insurance system that constantly stands between doctor and patient. You're not just a liar, you're a pathetic one.
  #358  
Old 06-26-2018, 02:23 PM
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Yes, I guess that's all you've got.

  #359  
Old 06-26-2018, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
Unsurprising. You're not someone capable of understanding anything substantive. But then, that post was not directed to you.
:sniff:

You even complimented me in this thread. What happened? Do you not love to hate me anymore?

Last edited by JohnT; 06-26-2018 at 02:27 PM.
  #360  
Old 06-26-2018, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip View Post
This "HurricaneDitka Pit thread" is turning out to be surprisingly Fotheringay-Phipps-heavy.
Tbh, given his habit of turning discussions into about himself, perhaps not all that surprising.
  #361  
Old 06-26-2018, 02:33 PM
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Tbh, given his habit of turning discussions into about himself, perhaps not all that surprising.
Also, Hurricane Ditka doesn't post in the pit and claims to rarely read it. It's hard to argue with someone who isn't arguing back and isn't even aware of the complaints.
  #362  
Old 06-26-2018, 02:39 PM
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I repeat my earlier statement. You conceded my point entirely - and nothing "lopped off" changed that - but just covered it in verbiage and heated language. See also above.
No matter how many times you claim "so you agree with me", no one else thinks that is the case. I've noticed this is one of your go-to things, like "you are too stupid to understand so I won't even talk to you".

Maybe later someone will put together a post of examples of you doing those things, just to show how often you dip into those wells.
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Old 06-26-2018, 02:47 PM
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You even complimented me in this thread.
I highly doubt that. You may have misunderstood something again. (I hope this doesn't make you cry.)
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No matter how many times you claim "so you agree with me", no one else thinks that is the case.
Speak for yourself.

I showed black-and-white that wolfpup conceded the essential point. His failure to respond in any substantive manner conceded that further.

Understood that he would never admit this upfront. That would be a contradiction to his entire approach to these discussions, and probably life ...
  #364  
Old 06-26-2018, 02:59 PM
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Well, the presence of FP in the HD pit thread warrants its own separate pitting of HD for having us subjected to this.
  #365  
Old 06-26-2018, 03:03 PM
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Now that may be worth a bit of a compliment. Not bad.

Might be the first worthwhile thing you've said in this discussion. Still, progress is being made ...

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  #366  
Old 06-26-2018, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
Unsurprising. You're not someone capable of understanding anything substantive. But then, that post was not directed to you.
I think everyone can see that I did bring substance, but it is better for you to ignore it.

Nah, in reality it supports what others have said about you, so that is OK.
  #367  
Old 06-26-2018, 03:06 PM
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I showed black-and-white that wolfpup conceded the essential point. His failure to respond in any substantive manner conceded that further.
No, you really did not. The second sentence there is just nonsense.
  #368  
Old 06-26-2018, 03:07 PM
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Well, the presence of FP in the HD pit thread warrants its own separate pitting of HD for having us subjected to this.
Someone needs to get Pitted for it. Did F-P just show up, or did someone mention his name first?
  #369  
Old 06-26-2018, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
Now that may be worth a bit of a compliment. Not bad.

Might be the first worthwhile thing you've said in this discussion. Still, progress is being made ...
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&postcount=294

"JohnT's point had been that the US in particular is in a position where population growth is essential and this is something these immigrants could provide. By contrast, in their home countries, population growth was not crucial and there were other obstacles to economic growth. As I said above, it was a shaky point. (That said, by the standards of the bilge which routinely passes for thought on this board, it's not bad. Probably in the upper half, I would guess.)"

I mean... I am in the top 50% of the bilge! You said so! Is there no higher compliment?

(And it isn't a shaky point but rather a basic premise of developed market economics, but I wouldn't expect a career health bureaucrat to understand this.)

Last edited by JohnT; 06-26-2018 at 03:10 PM.
  #370  
Old 06-26-2018, 03:08 PM
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Understood that he would never admit this upfront. That would be a contradiction to his entire approach to these discussions, and probably life ...
What I can see is evidence that you have the pathological fear that others do understand that a Canadian would know more about Canadian health or a Salvadorian-American would now more about immigration issues.

It is not complicated, except for the ones that have a stupid and illogical way to approach life.
  #371  
Old 06-26-2018, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
What I can see is evidence that you have the pathological fear that others do understand that a Canadian would know more about Canadian health or a Salvadorian-American would now more about immigration issues.

It is not complicated, except for the ones that have a stupid and illogical way to approach life.
In another thread, Huey talks about "whiteness"... this is one of the behaviors which he speaks of, how white people... men, especially... assume their secondary-attained knowledge is more on point than the direct experiences of others.

Have no idea if FP is white*, but he sure acts like a privileged white guy with his propensity to insult, act insulted, while claiming he "won" a debate when the audience can see he was totally out of his depth.

Thank you, FP, for this illumination.

*99.99% sure, though!

Last edited by JohnT; 06-26-2018 at 03:19 PM.
  #372  
Old 06-26-2018, 03:31 PM
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Maybe later someone will put together a post of examples of you doing those things, just to show how often you dip into those wells.
Actually, I'm rather pleased with how clearly this exchange with F-P shows him to be a dishonest sack of shit. Allow me to summarize some of the core elements of the discussion, which is now a matter of record here:

F-P: [With private insurance] "people can choose whatever medical care they want without approval from bureaucrats"!

Me: Bullshit! The whole basis of private insurance is the adjudication and potential denial of claims by a vast insurance bureaucracy. The insurance industry employs thousands of bureaucrats for that exact purpose. While single-payer has no such function, and there is no bureaucrat between patient and doctor. This is an absolutely foundational distinction.

F-P: Not relevant, not relevant! Private insurance has higher utilization!

Me: What the fuck does that have to do with anything? The "utilization" argument is a deceptive load of crap because the so-called "higher utilization" is actually just a problem of inefficiency and pertains to nothing more than useless low-value functions like over-testing. It's a problem that need fixing, not a benefit that's ever done anyone any good. Meanwhile there is a huge bureaucracy that stands in the way of people getting the medical care they need.

F-P: You used a lot of words there, and then admitted I was right! I was right! Also, in Canada, health care costs aren't a problem but it's tough getting service.

Me: It's not tough getting service. Let me give you a specific example.

F-P: {Quotes a sentence out of context, lops off the part giving the specific example, claims I admitted he was right again.} Yay! F-P now claims he was right TWICE!

One can see how F-P is not interested in any honest argument of substance if he can't hold up his side of it, so he resorts to playing word games in order to win teh internets.

This is similar to -- but actually worse and even more dishonest than -- HurricanDitka's delightful language games and blatantly dishonest argumentation. I'm thinking of the recent example where HD claimed it was entirely appropriate to arrest illegal border crossers because they were "suspected criminals". When asked to explain why anyone would assume that parents crossing with their children were suspected felons, it turned out that this was just code for "well, the border crossers are criminals because they crossed the border illegally". He got so upset at being called out on this deception that he was actually goaded into writing out the script for how he imagined that conversation was supposed to go, which no doubt had a sequel in which HD wins teh internets.

F-P's deception is actually far worse because his "utilization" argument tries to grossly mis-characterize a big problem of useless waste as actually being a feature, and using that deception to avoid having to answer the unanswerable argument about the bureaucracy of private insurance. It's hard to imagine any clearer evidence that it's impossible to have a rational argument with this lying sack of shit.

Last edited by wolfpup; 06-26-2018 at 03:33 PM.
  #373  
Old 06-26-2018, 03:34 PM
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https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&postcount=294

"JohnT's point had been that the US in particular is in a position where population growth is essential and this is something these immigrants could provide. By contrast, in their home countries, population growth was not crucial and there were other obstacles to economic growth. As I said above, it was a shaky point. (That said, by the standards of the bilge which routinely passes for thought on this board, it's not bad. Probably in the upper half, I would guess.)"

I mean... I am in the top 50% of the bilge! You said so! Is there no higher compliment?

(And it isn't a shaky point but rather a basic premise of developed market economics, but I wouldn't expect a career health bureaucrat to understand this.)
Well, what a surprise, you completely failed to understand what you were reading. Will wonders never cease?

The only weird part is that you missed it in the "wrong direction". The guy making the "shaky point" wasn't you, it was HD. Your point was debatable, but valid. HD's response didn't really address the core of your argument, so it was a shaky point, but (was not racist and) was OK by the standards of what passes as arguments on this board.
  #374  
Old 06-26-2018, 03:39 PM
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F-P's deception is actually far worse because his "utilization" argument tries to grossly mis-characterize a big problem of useless waste as actually being a feature, and using that deception to avoid having to answer the unanswerable argument about the bureaucracy of private insurance.
I'm not going to quote your wall of text (you really have nothing to do), but will just note briefly - again - that you're being dishonest in pretending that I've said anything is "a feature" (in the sense of being positive).

What I said is that for purposes of controlling costs - which is the topic being discussed in the health care thread - it makes no difference whether increased utilization is "useless waste" or not, because it costs the same regardless. Therefore any system which promotes increased utilization, whether or not it's useless waste, is tough to control.

Understood, of course, that someone with no integrity like yourself would need to distort things in order to feel like he's winning.

Last edited by Fotheringay-Phipps; 06-26-2018 at 03:41 PM.
  #375  
Old 06-26-2018, 04:27 PM
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I'm not going to quote your wall of text (you really have nothing to do), but will just note briefly - again - that you're being dishonest in pretending that I've said anything is "a feature" (in the sense of being positive).

What I said is that for purposes of controlling costs - which is the topic being discussed in the health care thread - it makes no difference whether increased utilization is "useless waste" or not, because it costs the same regardless. Therefore any system which promotes increased utilization, whether or not it's useless waste, is tough to control.

Understood, of course, that someone with no integrity like yourself would need to distort things in order to feel like he's winning.
Nope, but I have to say I'm really enjoying this! Keep digging!

The relevant discussion in this thread over your preposterous statement that "people can choose whatever medical care they want without approval from bureaucrats" began here, where you stated that "the statement is pretty well known to be true ... The private insurers in the US have far less control over utilization than the governments in socialist systems."

You made the aforementioned preposterous statement, I refuted it by pointing out that the private insurance industry has more bureaucratic meddling between doctor and patient than any other health care funding model, and then you came up with this bullshit about "control over utilization". This is much like HurricaneDitka's linguistic sleight-of-hand. What is an honest debater supposed to make of it as a response against the argument of private insurance bureaucracy and its denial of health care?

It's perfectly clear what you want the reader to think. If the insurance industry has little control over utilization, then obviously the patient and the medical system do, right? Congratulations, you've won the internet!

Well, no, you haven't, you've just won the "lying sack of shit" contest, just edging out HurricaneDitka. Because the "utilization" in question, as I noted, is redundant wasteful penny-ante bullshit (which also, sadly, adds up to a significant aggregate cost problem). It's useless crap that has hardly ever done any patient any good. Meanwhile a rampant insurance bureaucracy is entrenched in the medical system between doctor and patient, and actively denying health care for mercenary reasons whenever possible.

In short: bureaucratic meddling is a huge and intrinsic problem with private health insurance. Your "utilization" argument is a dishonest attempt at misdirection. I just don't know if you're doing it because you're stupid or because you're a dedicated shill for the insurance industry and still hoping to convince someone.
  #376  
Old 06-26-2018, 04:28 PM
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I'm not going to quote your wall of text (you really have nothing to do), but will just note briefly - again - that you're being dishonest in pretending that I've said anything is "a feature" (in the sense of being positive).
We know that, you really do think that ignoring it makes the point go away.

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Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
What I said is that for purposes of controlling costs - which is the topic being discussed in the health care thread - it makes no difference whether increased utilization is "useless waste" or not, because it costs the same regardless.
A very stupid thing to say when the facts show otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar..._United_States

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Therefore any system which promotes increased utilization, whether or not it's useless waste, is tough to control.
Therefore you are just babbling.

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Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
Understood, of course, that someone with no integrity like yourself would need to distort things in order to feel like he's winning.
You are not even wrong.
  #377  
Old 06-26-2018, 04:32 PM
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OK, I see people with more time and interest than me intend to just keep repeating the same distortions again and again.

I don't think anything further needs to be said at this point.

ETA: if anyone I respect feels there's something to discuss, I would take this up further. But as it is, I don't anticipate this.

Last edited by Fotheringay-Phipps; 06-26-2018 at 04:33 PM.
  #378  
Old 06-26-2018, 04:34 PM
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Well, what a surprise, you completely failed to understand what you were reading. Will wonders never cease?

The only weird part is that you missed it in the "wrong direction". The guy making the "shaky point" wasn't you, it was HD. Your point was debatable, but valid. HD's response didn't really address the core of your argument, so it was a shaky point, but (was not racist and) was OK by the standards of what passes as arguments on this board.
So your inability to craft a simple English sentence, with proper noun-pronoun agreement, is somehow my fault?



Of course it is! WTF was I thinking?
  #379  
Old 06-26-2018, 04:39 PM
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OK, I see people with more time and interest than me intend to just keep repeating the same distortions again and again.

I don't think anything further needs to be said at this point.

ETA: if anyone I respect feels there's something to discuss, I would take this up further. But as it is, I don't anticipate this.
Aye; this is your failsafe! "I can see that my arguments are too advanced for any of you plebes to understand; there's no point in talking to any of you any more." It's occurrence is as predictable as any of your other posts.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 06-26-2018 at 04:39 PM.
  #380  
Old 06-26-2018, 04:44 PM
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OK, I see people with more time and interest than me intend to just keep repeating the same distortions again and again.
Good point, they should stop quoting your lies.
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I don't think anything further needs to be said at this point.
This point? Really? You've been repeating the same lies over and over for quite a while. If you didn't really think that there was anything further to be said at this point, you should have just stopped posting your lies after the first time.
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ETA: if anyone I respect feels there's something to discuss, I would take this up further. But as it is, I don't anticipate this.
HD doesn't do the pit, Bricker has too much integrity to agree with your lies, so I guess you just want to talk to Shodan?

That makes sense, between the two of you, you may manage to scrounge a couple of brain cells to rub together. But, as it is, I don't anticipate this.
  #381  
Old 06-26-2018, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
So your inability to craft a simple English sentence, with proper noun-pronoun agreement, is somehow my fault?
You left off the first two sentences of the paragraph when you quoted it. The paragraph in its entirety was clear, all the more so when combined with the paragraph which preceded it.

I don't know what you're talking about WRT "proper noun-pronoun agreement" and have no doubt that you don't either, but you're correct that it's your fault. As you've shown in the Trump threads, you really have difficulty understanding written English.

Last edited by Fotheringay-Phipps; 06-26-2018 at 04:49 PM.
  #382  
Old 06-26-2018, 04:55 PM
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Since you need an English lesson better suited for a sixth-grader, here goes:

"JohnT's point* had been that the US in particular is in a position where population growth is essential and this is something these immigrants could provide. By contrast, in their home countries, population growth was not crucial and there were other obstacles to economic growth. As I said above, it** was a shaky point. (That said, by the standards of the bilge which routinely passes for thought on this board, it's not bad. Probably in the upper half, I would guess.)"

* Noun (with modifier indicating it was my point)
** pronoun (which you now claim references HD)

Properly written to sixth grade standards, it should have read:


"JohnT's point had been that the US in particular is in a position where population growth is essential and this is something these immigrants could provide. By contrast, in their home countries, population growth was not crucial and there were other obstacles to economic growth. As I said above, HD's position was a shaky point. (That said, by the standards of the bilge which routinely passes for thought on this board, it's not bad. Probably in the upper half, I would guess.)"

See? Now "it" no longer refers to my point.

Last edited by JohnT; 06-26-2018 at 04:57 PM.
  #383  
Old 06-26-2018, 05:03 PM
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As I said, you left off the first two sentences (not to mention the prior paragraph). I see you felt the need to do it again in order to support your claim. Here's how it is with the prior sentences.
In that other thread, JohnT had claimed the US needed immigrants from non-white countries in order to be economically robust. HD responded that these immigrants had not been making their home countries economically robust, so the notion that they would make the US economically robust is unconvincing.

It's* a rather simple, intuitive, and on-point response. At the same time, it's also overly simplistic. JohnT's point had been that the US in particular is in a position where population growth is essential and this is something these immigrants could provide. By contrast, in their home countries, population growth was not crucial and there were other obstacles to economic growth. As I said above, it** was a shaky point. (That said, by the standards of the bilge which routinely passes for thought on this board, it's not bad. Probably in the upper half, I would guess.)
*Noun. No modifier needed, since it was explicitly described as a "response".
**Pronoun. No modifier needed. HD's response is what I had earlier described as a shaky point, and which was additionally described in this very paragraph as "overly simplistic".

Again, you really have trouble reading English. No power on earth can help you, apparently.

Last edited by Fotheringay-Phipps; 06-26-2018 at 05:03 PM.
  #384  
Old 06-26-2018, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
As I said, you left off the first two sentences (not to mention the prior paragraph). I see you felt the need to do it again in order to support your claim. Here's how it is with the prior sentences.
In that other thread, JohnT had claimed the US needed immigrants from non-white countries in order to be economically robust. HD responded that these immigrants had not been making their home countries economically robust, so the notion that they would make the US economically robust is unconvincing.

It's* a rather simple, intuitive, and on-point response. At the same time, it's also overly simplistic. JohnT's point had been that the US in particular is in a position where population growth is essential and this is something these immigrants could provide. By contrast, in their home countries, population growth was not crucial and there were other obstacles to economic growth. As I said above, it** was a shaky point. (That said, by the standards of the bilge which routinely passes for thought on this board, it's not bad. Probably in the upper half, I would guess.)
*Noun. No modifier needed, since it was explicitly described as a "response".
**Pronoun. No modifier needed. HD's response is what I had earlier described as a shaky point, and which was additionally described in this very paragraph as "overly simplistic".

Again, you really have trouble reading English. No power on earth can help you, apparently.
You even lie about words right in front of your lying face.

Are you trying to get a job in the Trump administration? I know the rumor is that SHS is on her way out, but they lie almost as much as you do, so I wouldn't count on it. Even trumpistas would be like, "Holy shit, that guy is a liar!" You'd give away the game. The trump administration is pretty blatant about their lies, but you are even stupider than they are, trying to lie about words that are typed on a message board for anyone at all to see. If they were as stupid and blatant about lying as you are, they would have given away the game too early, and we'd be under a sane president, rather than the liar that you defend and support.
  #385  
Old 06-26-2018, 05:15 PM
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Dude, just stop.

You're completely wrong. Just slink out of the thread and don't come back, just like you promised above.
  #386  
Old 06-26-2018, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
ETA: if anyone I respect feels there's something to discuss, I would take this up further. But as it is, I don't anticipate this.
Let's go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! Dude, I don't respect you at all; I talk to you as a form of charity or for the comedy factor of reading your ridiculous lies and contortions.

I suspect I'm not alone, too.
  #387  
Old 06-26-2018, 05:26 PM
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https://webapps.towson.edu/ows/pro_antagree.htm
  #388  
Old 06-26-2018, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
As I said, you left off the first two sentences (not to mention the prior paragraph). I see you felt the need to do it again in order to support your claim. Here's how it is with the prior sentences.
In that other thread, JohnT had claimed the US needed immigrants from non-white countries in order to be economically robust. HD responded that these immigrants had not been making their home countries economically robust, so the notion that they would make the US economically robust is unconvincing.

It's* a rather simple, intuitive, and on-point response. At the same time, it's also overly simplistic. JohnT's point had been that the US in particular is in a position where population growth is essential and this is something these immigrants could provide. By contrast, in their home countries, population growth was not crucial and there were other obstacles to economic growth. As I said above, it** was a shaky point. (That said, by the standards of the bilge which routinely passes for thought on this board, it's not bad. Probably in the upper half, I would guess.)
*Noun. No modifier needed, since it was explicitly described as a "response".
**Pronoun. No modifier needed. HD's response is what I had earlier described as a shaky point, and which was additionally described in this very paragraph as "overly simplistic".

Again, you really have trouble reading English. No power on earth can help you, apparently.
The funniest thing about this post... well, there are a lot of things funny about this... is that your absolute insistence on doubling down on a losing position.

See, here's the thing: You actually had an argument to make, you just made the wrong one. And you made the wrong argument not on the merits, not on standard S&W or Chicago Rules or whatever style guides you studied ( :snerk: ), but on an absolute belief that you were right in the first place, that I was wrong, and that was that. You had to be correct. I had to be wrong. Your personality is such that you cannot handle otherwise, and this condition is so engraved into your persona that you couldn't find a better solution.

So, let's just dispense with the above nonsense by not even rebutting it. A simple citation... which I provided above... will show you the error of your ways. In short: Pronouns don't work the way you insisted they work.

Were you not suffering from this personality deficit, you could have stepped back and (a) reviewed noun/pronoun rules, or (b), find another part of your sentence which could have been used to refute my statement.

Huh. Could such a thing be possible?

Yes. All you had to do... and I was actually expecting this... was merely argue that the clause prior to your pronoun obviously referred to a statement prior to this paragraph. It would have been so easy... so correct... to mention this.

You know, this clause: "As I said above..."

But you couldn't. You literally could not. You just had to dig in, insist on your being right on pronoun usage, and, again, on showing your personality disorder to the Board.

And I made the argument hoping that you would double-down on it. that you wouldn't point out the obvious. It was a bit of a risk, but what the hell, right?

And you fell for it. Hook, line, and sinker.

Now, pointing out that clause would not have meant you used the pronoun correctly. You still fucked that up. But you could have argued that the clause referred the reader to a point you made earlier and that the sentence was merely clumsily written, mea culpa, my bad, sorry guys and gals I'll do better next time.

However, as you are congenitally unable to admit being incorrect in any capacity, you could not see this. Would not.

And this is why we mock you, FP. It's not because of your opinions... people here don't mock Bricker (many may not like him, or his opinions, but we don't make fun of him)... we mock you because

... we mock you because you insist on never being wrong
... we mock you because you are constantly wrong
... we mock you because you cannot compliment without insulting
... we mock you because you refuse to learn
... we mock you because you refuse to listen
... we mock you because you refuse to debate honestly

This entire thread is a microcosm of your personality disorder. You literally turned a thread about HD into a thread about you. Not the first time, not the 50th time, and likely not for the last time. You say something in good faith, somebody rebuts in good faith, then you lose your marbles. You double down. You insult the respondent. You insult the reader. You insult non-participants. You insult and disdain to the point where one wonders "Why the fuck does he even bother to come here?"

And it's hilarious watching you do this. "You wrote what you wanted to write!", you once whined. Cracked my ass up, that did, as nothing you penned in the decade you've been here more perfectly sums up the FP experience for us. Yes, FP, we write what we want to write. Got a problem with that?

So, now I'm sitting here LOLing because I suckered you into a bad argument, and I know your response is going to be more insults, more doubling down, more of the same old crap. And I'll ignore it... probably... and we'll watch you make an ass out of yourself forevermore.

Ciao.

(Oh, you still get -1 point for noun-pronoun agreement. Had you made the correct argument, I would've given you half a point back - still wrong, but not as wrong as I made it out to be.

Last edited by JohnT; 06-26-2018 at 11:56 PM.
  #389  
Old 06-27-2018, 10:21 AM
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Hurricane Ditka, you are a disingenuous piece of crap. I’m fucking sick of your ““oh so calm and measured” concern trolling. If you can read Trumps twitter feed day in and day out and not take offense foul spewing of President PeePee, you have no business being offended at a harsh comment made by a freaking comedian.

You’re not a patriot. You are a democracy hating fuckstick whose willing to destroy your own country because you get paranoid whenever you hear someone speaking Spanish. You and the rest of your “patriotic” fuckhead cohort need to go hide in a cave with your guns and supply of MRE’s. The. You will start to find each other increasingly suspect until you turn on and eradicate each other for not hating hard enough. Problem solved.

Before you go to bed tonight, look at your newborn son. Then imagine how you would feel if he was ripped from the arms of you and your wife and locked in a cage while we shipped you both to another country far away. Just because we don’t like the language you speak . Then be glad that there is no justice in the world.
  #390  
Old 06-27-2018, 10:59 AM
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Bravo, Ann!
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  #391  
Old 06-27-2018, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Ann Hedonia View Post
Hurricane Ditka, you are a disingenuous piece of crap. I’m fucking sick of your ““oh so calm and measured” concern trolling. If you can read Trumps twitter feed day in and day out and not take offense foul spewing of President PeePee, you have no business being offended at a harsh comment made by a freaking comedian.

You’re not a patriot. You are a democracy hating fuckstick whose willing to destroy your own country because you get paranoid whenever you hear someone speaking Spanish. You and the rest of your “patriotic” fuckhead cohort need to go hide in a cave with your guns and supply of MRE’s. The. You will start to find each other increasingly suspect until you turn on and eradicate each other for not hating hard enough. Problem solved.

Before you go to bed tonight, look at your newborn son. Then imagine how you would feel if he was ripped from the arms of you and your wife and locked in a cage while we shipped you both to another country far away. Just because we don’t like the language you speak . Then be glad that there is no justice in the world.
Well said, but he will not read your words. He is too much a coward to come to the pit and hear anything harsh that anyone may have to say about him.

He will look at his white newborn child, and know that because his child is white, he has little chance of having him ripped away from him. He knows that that is a policy that is reserved for people that don't look like him, and so is not only okay with it, not only defends it, but encourages it.
  #392  
Old 06-27-2018, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
Well said, but he will not read your words. He is too much a coward to come to the pit and hear anything harsh that anyone may have to say about him.

He will look at his white newborn child, and know that because his child is white, he has little chance of having him ripped away from him. He knows that that is a policy that is reserved for people that don't look like him, and so is not only okay with it, not only defends it, but encourages it.
Pretty sure he reads every post, he just doesn't respond. A while back he had PM'd me and IIRC straight up admitted that he reads this thread.
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  #393  
Old 06-27-2018, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
HD is back, and he thinks non-white immigrants are inferior and undesirable (or at least the ones from poor countries). What a shock!

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...5#post21038215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
HD did not say what you claim he said.
What exactly did iiandyiiii claim he (HD) said?

Last edited by kaylasdad99; 06-27-2018 at 12:06 PM.
  #394  
Old 06-27-2018, 12:39 PM
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Pretty sure he reads every post, he just doesn't respond. A while back he had PM'd me and IIRC straight up admitted that he reads this thread.
I don't really much care whether he reads this thread or not, since it's not going to change his behavior. I think it's more important that other posters who engage with him are aware of his m.o., that he affects a false veneer of sanctimonious civility and that it hides both a basic dishonesty and some really ugly hateful beliefs. I think Ann Hedonia put it well in #389.

I knew all this but even I was surprised at his outright implication that immigrants were of no value to America if they were from shithole countries, which was sort of a corollary to his earlier claim that they're all a bunch of criminals. He obviously regards the Trump administration as a shining model of the kind of culture of achievement that America should aspire to, and respects their intellectual discernment in letting the immigrants have it just the way they deserve, with both barrels.
  #395  
Old 06-27-2018, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
What exactly did iiandyiiii claim he (HD) said?
If you don't understand what you have written, you are not alone.

Regards,
Shodan

Last edited by Shodan; 06-27-2018 at 12:40 PM.
  #396  
Old 06-27-2018, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post

Since wolfpup's little finger has forgotten more about science and technology than you could ever know, even in your wildest wet-dream, the comments in the post I quoted are inanely incorrect. Maybe we need to bump the thread Nominations for Stupidest Doper.
Come to think of it, the field’s wide open since May 15. We really need to start assessing who’s going to assume the title next year

Awards season has a way of kinda sneaking up on you...
  #397  
Old 06-27-2018, 03:50 PM
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In a thread about what would make one either flee from or act violently against authority in the US, we have this gem from HD:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
One of the forum rules is: "Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm." Talk of joining an insurgency is probably a bit too close to, or over that line, for me to feel comfortable discussing my personal opinions on the matter.
Anyone surprised that someone who sympathizes with the OK City bomber implies that he's not far from joining an insurgency and shooting Americans?
  #398  
Old 06-27-2018, 05:16 PM
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I'm surprised he thinks anyone gives two shits about his feeling comfortable.
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  #399  
Old 06-27-2018, 05:26 PM
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He doesn't, he just thinks that we should.
  #400  
Old 06-27-2018, 05:28 PM
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Believes? Maybe. Feels? Possibly. Thinks? Not a chance.
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