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  #101  
Old 09-22-2013, 04:27 PM
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I'm at 1.397 billion per second, and at the point I'm at the only really sane move is to click every golden cookie. Even at that rate, my only good ROIs take about 15-20 minutes to get to. Unless you get a good golden cookie. I've shaved at least 2.5 hours off of long timers by being sure to get every cookie. Using cookie monster to display how long until the next cookie of course. I'm not crazy/bored enough to sit there watching it.
  #102  
Old 09-22-2013, 04:31 PM
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Sorry to ramble, but...

I clicked a clot, and it gave me +6666 cookies, then another appeared, I clicked it and it gave me +6666 cookies, and one more time after that.

I haven't noticed anything different, except those three red cookies in a row.

So that was it? At this point in the game, +6666 cookies is actually worse than a poke in the eye. Well, almost.
Well, cookie chains are always nice because you need a total of 777 Golden cookies to unlock one of the achievements. Since a chain could get you a dozen Golden cookies in the space you'd normally get only one, they're pretty nice even if you don't need the cookies.
  #103  
Old 09-22-2013, 04:32 PM
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I'm going to see how far I can get with just fifteen mouse clicks. Might take a while!
  #104  
Old 09-22-2013, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tapioca Dextrin View Post
I'm going to see how far I can get with just fifteen mouse clicks. Might take a while!
There's a hidden achievement for that.

There's also an achievement for never clicking the big cookie (you have to use Golden Cookies to do it).
  #105  
Old 09-22-2013, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Jragon View Post
I'm at 1.397 billion per second, and at the point I'm at the only really sane move is to click every golden cookie. Even at that rate, my only good ROIs take about 15-20 minutes to get to. Unless you get a good golden cookie. I've shaved at least 2.5 hours off of long timers by being sure to get every cookie. Using cookie monster to display how long until the next cookie of course. I'm not crazy/bored enough to sit there watching it.
Here, have some bookkeeping and tax returns. I can get paid for doing some real work, but watching for those Golden cookies out of the corner of my eye becomes a real highlight of the afternoon.
  #106  
Old 09-22-2013, 04:34 PM
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There is a funny achievement that you can get if..

SPOILER:
..you zoom the view in so that your cookie is big enough to touch the milk under it.



Eventually there will come a time (I reached it after playing for 3 days) that you wont be able to do much of anything for a long time and the next upgrades cost way too much.
One day I got up and had about 120 trillion cookies (after going to bed with only 2 trillion), but I could only buy one new thing.
It's was often suggested (that I had read) that at that point...

SPOILER:
..you should do a soft reset. Why am I putting this in spoilers? Because...


..what that does is [warning, a lot of new and major info is in the box below, click only if you want to learn about every last aspect of the game]...

SPOILER:
..start a whole new aspect to the game. See, once you reset, aside from being able to get a possible 3 new achievements (depending on how many all time cookies you baked your first go round), you also get a new thing called "Prestige". Prestige is a collection of new cookies you have on your stats page called "Heavenly Chips". Each HC gives you 2% CPS of your total (from the start), making a "starting over from scratch" allowing you to make more cookies and much faster (in half the time that you did before).
The number of HC you will get after a soft reset depends on how many cookies you made all time in your last game. You get 1 HC for 1 trillion cookies. 2 HCs for 3 trillion cookies. 3 HCs for 6 million cookies....etc.
Here is a full list of how it works out mathematically (you math buffs will love it): http://cookieclicker.wikia.com/wiki/Heavenly_Chips

Consequently, there is the link to the wiki for those who don't already know about it. It gives a great deal of info about the game

Anyway, the more cookies you made all round depends on how many HCs you get. You can keep getting HCs each time you soft reset (they are stackable) and there's no limit to how many you can have.
I've heard and read stories of people soft resetting, getting about 100 HCs, and then getting back up to where they were in CPS in about one day, compared to when they played 5 days before.

I was able to get about 68 HCs when I reset and there is a definite change in speed that I noticed. I'm already close to where I was before after only playing half a day (despite having played 4 days my first time).



Oh, and this site makes me laugh but makes me impressed half the time too. Apparently this game is huge in Japan and everyone is going nuts over it. That page has a lot of cool photos, drawings, and even stuff you can buy that are game oriented.

Last edited by Idle Thoughts; 09-22-2013 at 04:42 PM.
  #107  
Old 09-22-2013, 04:41 PM
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Played it for a couple minutes. Reminds me of some of the "idle" games on Kongregate, all of which I found too tedious.

This one looks simple enough. I'll spare more time for it when I can.
  #108  
Old 09-22-2013, 04:43 PM
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I'm at this really weird point of the game where one of my upgrades would take over an hour to get to if I were on frenzy 100% of the time, and 7 hours if I just let it sit. But it's so far and away the best ROI anything else is almost not even worth considering. We're talking 30k cost/income vs my next lowest being 160k cost/income. It's a very interesting conundrum.

Last edited by Jragon; 09-22-2013 at 04:43 PM.
  #109  
Old 09-22-2013, 04:44 PM
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Okay. I clicked on it 1000 times, and it still says producing 0 cookies per second, total 0 cookies clicked. Yawn.
What Chronos said. You really shouldn't have to click to make cookies, except when you click on a golden cookie and it says "x7 for 60 seconds." That's when you frenzy click the big cookie. Luckily, all my Facebook clicky game experience has conditioned my index and middle finger so I can frenzy click for the whole 60 seconds, switching fingers if one gets fatigued.
  #110  
Old 09-22-2013, 05:12 PM
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I wonder what's the max number of cookies? In computers, every number is stored with a finite precision.
I believe it uses a 64-bit unsigned integer, which means the max would be

18,446,744,073,709,551,615

(18.447 Quintillion)

It's also possible that the developer used a BigInt package, due to how little math is being done. In which case the max value is effectively unlimited.

One could probably cheat to find out pretty easily.
  #111  
Old 09-22-2013, 05:24 PM
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That's because you haven't bought any of the things that produce cookies per second, and instead are just relying on the really slow clicks. "0 cookies clicked" means that you haven't produced any cookies via bought cursors.
Didn't see anything about buying stuff - either why or how.
  #112  
Old 09-22-2013, 05:35 PM
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Didn't see anything about buying stuff - either why or how.
On the right side of the screen.
  #113  
Old 09-22-2013, 06:24 PM
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It seems like the gaming equivalent of popping bubble-wrap (I realise that there are actual bubble-wrap-popping games out there). It basically plays itself, except that from time to time you are required to make decisions which are either trivially easy or utterly inconsequential (sometimes both).
I mean, sure the numbers go up and up faster and faster, but if that is exciting to you may I suggest that you investigate the phenomenon of exponential growth? It's much more interesting than this.

That said, my current rate is 1.266 billion cookies per second, and I've been playing for 1 day 13 hours.
  #114  
Old 09-22-2013, 06:36 PM
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That said, my current rate is 1.266 billion cookies per second, and I've been playing for 1 day 13 hours.
1 day 2 hours and I'm at 3.027 billion per second (Golden cookies are God)

Last edited by Jragon; 09-22-2013 at 06:37 PM.
  #115  
Old 09-22-2013, 06:41 PM
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I just finished getting every easily achievable achievement (everything except the 777 golden cookies, and the ones that required 100 antimatter things). I also got every single upgrade. I was effectively done, so I reset.

I got like 95 heavenly chips. I'm already back up to 38M cookies per second, in less than an hour of play.

This is phenomenal

I finished getting every upgrade in less than 2 days of play (but I did use an autoclicker to speed things up).
  #116  
Old 09-22-2013, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by drewtwo99 View Post
I just finished getting every easily achievable achievement (everything except the 777 golden cookies, and the ones that required 100 antimatter things). I also got every single upgrade. I was effectively done, so I reset.

I got like 95 heavenly chips. I'm already back up to 38M cookies per second, in less than an hour of play.

This is phenomenal

I finished getting every upgrade in less than 2 days of play (but I did use an autoclicker to speed things up).
I think it's safe to say that, at this point, you're an official, without-a-doubt convert.

(so, like me, you'll probably be playing off and on, in spurts and whenever he adds new things/events to the game, forever now )
  #117  
Old 09-22-2013, 06:46 PM
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It seems like the gaming equivalent of popping bubble-wrap <snip>
That's about the best and most succinct description of these types of games I've yet read. These things are wildly popular.
  #118  
Old 09-22-2013, 06:53 PM
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I think it's safe to say that, at this point, you're an official, without-a-doubt convert.

(so, like me, you'll probably be playing off and on, in spurts and whenever he adds new things/events to the game, forever now )
Yeah. I'm gonna play through and get the rest of the achievements. I'm hoping with heavenly chips that getting to 100 antimatter condensers will actually be feasible!

The most I ever had banked at one moment was about 1.2 Quadrillion cookies.
  #119  
Old 09-22-2013, 07:13 PM
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I can't get any golden cookie autoclickers to work for some reason. Oh well.
  #120  
Old 09-22-2013, 07:15 PM
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Yeah, I never used autoclickers either, it definitely sped up drew's process. I was never even close to having 1 quadrillion in the bank.
Most I ever had was 450 trillion banked (at one time) and I've been playing for 3 days. Constantly running it.
  #121  
Old 09-22-2013, 07:40 PM
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I didn't use a golden cookie auto clicker! Just an auto clicker for clicking the main cookie. It helps more in the beginning than toward the end, but even in the end it helps.
  #122  
Old 09-22-2013, 07:43 PM
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I actually have a GC autoclicker and a big cookie autoclicker running now. Now I can go play Kingdom Hearts while building up my cookies.

Yes, I just completely defeated the point of the game. No, I don't care .
  #123  
Old 09-22-2013, 07:55 PM
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Well, the dev of the game encourages cheating since one of the achievements you can only get is by cheating; "Cheated Cookies Taste Awful", gotten by hacking in cookies.

Last edited by Idle Thoughts; 09-22-2013 at 07:55 PM.
  #124  
Old 09-22-2013, 08:12 PM
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I found the Cookie Monster plugin to be a sporting and very informative enhancement. It was very eye-opening to see how the relative ROI changes with every transaction. Even with dozens of antimatter condensers on the board, sometimes upgrading your cursors is the most cost effective move. And as time drags on, the ROI of every structure and upgrade eventually becomes not worth it, you're just playing for the special bonuses at some point.
  #125  
Old 09-22-2013, 09:10 PM
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So, I see that there's a fair bit of discussion online about the best way to mitigate the Grandmapocalypse... But as I understand it, the only consequence of the Grandmapocalypse is that you get red cookies instead of gold ones, and even accounting for their chance of negative effects, the red cookies have a higher expected value than the gold ones. So why wouldn't one want to just let the Grandmapocalypse continue?
  #126  
Old 09-22-2013, 09:17 PM
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So, I see that there's a fair bit of discussion online about the best way to mitigate the Grandmapocalypse... But as I understand it, the only consequence of the Grandmapocalypse is that you get red cookies instead of gold ones, and even accounting for their chance of negative effects, the red cookies have a higher expected value than the gold ones. So why wouldn't one want to just let the Grandmapocalypse continue?
Yeah, between red and gold, red have the Maximum Expected Utility. I think most people just think that any chance to have something bad happen = worse.

Currently I have a script that autobuys the research that appeases the grandmatriarchs, but that's only until I get 5 for the achievements. Then it's red cookies all the way.
  #127  
Old 09-22-2013, 09:31 PM
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Okay, I earned an achievement for appeasing the grandmatriarchs by buying an "appeasing" upgrade. Then I got another for appeasing them 5 times. Anyone happen to know how many achievements there are for that?

And I always get lousy red cookies.
  #128  
Old 09-22-2013, 09:43 PM
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Okay, I earned an achievement for appeasing the grandmatriarchs by buying an "appeasing" upgrade. Then I got another for appeasing them 5 times. Anyone happen to know how many achievements there are for that?

And I always get lousy red cookies.
There's only the one for 1 and 5. After that the only grandmatriarch achievement is for buying the Elder Covenant which I think makes them go away forever.
  #129  
Old 09-22-2013, 09:47 PM
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There's only the one for 1 and 5. After that the only grandmatriarch achievement is for buying the Elder Covenant which I think makes them go away forever.
Thanks! I'll let it run all night and buy it in the morning, when I'm flush.
  #130  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:43 PM
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I was effectively done, so I reset.
Did you clear your cookies to clear your cookies?
  #131  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:58 PM
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I believe it uses a 64-bit unsigned integer, which means the max would be

18,446,744,073,709,551,615

(18.447 Quintillion)

It's also possible that the developer used a BigInt package, due to how little math is being done. In which case the max value is effectively unlimited.

One could probably cheat to find out pretty easily.
Wow, I don't think anyone's reached that. Wonder why World of Warcraft only used 32-bit integers (http://www.wowwiki.com/Money the gold limit used to be about 2,150,000,000).

How could one cheat to get that much money? I thought after about 1E12 it gets very hard to upgrade.

Tip: if you have to click a lot, and have a number pad, Windows has an accessibility feature called Mouse Keys that lets you use the number pad as a mouse. I think + is double click and 5 is single click. Should be easy to get 10 clicks per second with that. If you have a gaming mouse (e.g. Razer), you can set up a macro to click even faster.
  #132  
Old 09-23-2013, 12:37 AM
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Nope, he must use a BigInt. I just added the max 64-bit int several times and it just keeps getting bigger, no overflow.

ETA: Yeah, it has to be a BigInt of some sort, I just set it to well above the 128 bit unisgned integer limit and it's merrily chugging along. I don't think modern processors even have a SIMD instruction that handles anything over 128-bit.

Last edited by Jragon; 09-23-2013 at 12:39 AM.
  #133  
Old 09-23-2013, 12:42 AM
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Nevermind, I made a bad assumption, it's a float of some sort.

I've determined that it's probably a double-precision (64-bit) floating point number. Which means its max is 1.79769e+308. However, trying to set it to that value maxes it declare that the value is NaN for some reason.

Last edited by Jragon; 09-23-2013 at 12:47 AM.
  #134  
Old 09-23-2013, 12:55 AM
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I'm not sure why, but things get weird around 1.79769313e303. Which as you may notice is very similar to the actual max double value, but off by a factor of 1e5 for some reason. The javascript console seems to report everything up to 1.797<etc>e308 as valid, so I think it's just a formatting error with his display function.
  #135  
Old 09-23-2013, 01:13 AM
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I just got a x777 click frenzy during a x7 frenzy and earned 120 trillion cookies in 14 seconds! Weee!
  #136  
Old 09-23-2013, 02:03 AM
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Good thing I didn't have anything I needed to do today. Some of the news items are pretty funny, I got one that said "Cookie manufacturer forgoes common sense, lets OCD drive building decisions." I think that's from building in decreasing multiples of 10, which you also get an achievement for.
I am totally letting my OCD decide what to buy. Those multiples of 10, man...
  #137  
Old 09-23-2013, 03:16 AM
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Are we quite certain that the Red Cookies have a higher expected value than the Golden Cookies? I've seen that written in a couple places, but never with the actual numbers, and the numbers I just worked out myself (pertaining to my specific game) suggest that that's simply not the case.

If anyone wants to check my math (it is possible I just misplaced a decimal point somewhere), my cps is 3.573B, and a manual mouse click yields 142.938M. I'm assuming that I can get 90 clicks in a 13-second "Clicking Frenzy." I'm assuming I'm not going to manually click during a regular Frenzy. Also assuming that I have enough cookies banked so that the results of "Lucky!" and "Ruin!" are based on my cps.


Anyway. The EV of a Cookie Chain once started, assuming you never miss a cookie, is approximately 3,228,721,333,325.4 (3.229T). (I actually couldn't find this correctly given anywhere online, surprisingly.)

Given that, and the figures and assumptions above, a Red Cookie in my game currently has an EV of 1.7401 Trillion cookies. A Golden Cookie, however, has a base EV of 3.0868 Trillion cookies, and that's not even accounting for the times a Golden Cookie will yield a Frenzy that's followed by a "Lucky!" and applies its 7x multiplier, which is frequent and very profitable.

Basically, a Golden Cookie is worth twice as much to me as a Red Cookie. What am I missing?

Last edited by VarlosZ; 09-23-2013 at 03:20 AM.
  #138  
Old 09-23-2013, 03:37 AM
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Oops, a correction:

I forgot that I have the "Get Lucky" upgrade, which doubles the length of "Frenzy!" and "Clot." That changes the EV of a Red Cookie for me to 1.7059 Trillion, and the base EV of a Golden Cookie to 3.8963 Trillion. Worse still.
  #139  
Old 09-23-2013, 05:25 AM
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How could one cheat to get that much money? I thought after about 1E12 it gets very hard to upgrade.
"Cheat" as in "literally change the Javascript".

I just opened up the developer's console on Chrome and after some poking (and reading the scripts on the game Wiki), found Game.cookies. If you know that, you can set it to pretty much any value you want (and you get a shadow achievement for cheating, which you can also use the developer's console to remove if you want ). I'm at the point where I'm pretty much obligated to hard reset my game, because of my poking around I have some ridiculous amount of heavenly chips like 9997, which pretty much breaks the game completely.

Last edited by Jragon; 09-23-2013 at 05:28 AM.
  #140  
Old 09-23-2013, 06:07 AM
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Fuck this game. It's the stupidest game I've ever played. But God help me, I have 4 antimatter condensers and am making almost 9 million cookies a second.

ETA: just got my fifth antimatter condenser. Cracked 10 mil/sec

Last edited by armedmonkey; 09-23-2013 at 06:08 AM.
  #141  
Old 09-23-2013, 07:22 AM
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Once you've clicked 77 golden cookies, you will unlock an extremely valuable upgrade relating to golden cookies that will allow you to occasionally make hundreds of trillions of cookies in seconds.
Did you mean hundreds of billions, rather than trillions? Because I'm way past 77 golden cookies and a x777 Clicking Frenzy only produces about one trillion per second, and it only lasts a few seconds. Or is there a rarer Frenzy, a hundred times more powerful?
  #142  
Old 09-23-2013, 10:05 AM
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I finally got a red cookie chain last night that started as 6, then 66, etc until my last one that was worth 6.6 trillion. So that's cool. Still, 6T isn't enough to even buy an upgrade anymore.
  #143  
Old 09-23-2013, 10:24 AM
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Fuck this game. It's the stupidest game I've ever played. But God help me, I have 4 antimatter condensers and am making almost 9 million cookies a second.

ETA: just got my fifth antimatter condenser. Cracked 10 mil/sec
I'm with ya. I'm only at about 6M per second and I hardly ever click anything any more since proportionally the numbers are trivial (about 100K) per click. I feel like I'm missing something here, all it is is a counter at this point and there's nothing else I can do besides buy condensers.

I went through a phase where I sold all of my expensive stuff just to get the 100 cursor and granny achievements but otherwise it's just a tab over there I don't play with often.
  #144  
Old 09-23-2013, 10:35 AM
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There's a 200 cursor achievement.
  #145  
Old 09-23-2013, 10:40 AM
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There's a 200 cursor achievement.
Yeah, seems like you lose a hefty percentage when you sell your stuff so I'm going to wait a while before chasing those.
  #146  
Old 09-23-2013, 10:53 AM
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So not only is the game running on my PC back home, it's now running on my phone too...
  #147  
Old 09-23-2013, 10:58 AM
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I alternate buying the top two buildings plus cursors. I know cursors have a terrible ROI, but I want the 200 achievement. I'm up over 180 now, and they sure get pricey. I've got 100 of everything else, at least.

I think I'm going to try to do everything I can without cheating, but I read in this thread you eventually have to cheat to get a certain achievement. No prob. I have no moral qualms about cheating in video games. Whatever is the most enjoyable way for you, go for it, as long as it isn't an official score you want, or you're competing against others who don't cheat.

Sounds like at some point I'll have to do a soft reset or something. Still haven't figured out what these "Heavenly chips" are.
  #148  
Old 09-23-2013, 11:06 AM
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I think I now understand why millionaires and billionaires want more!, More!!, MORE!!!

  #149  
Old 09-23-2013, 11:12 AM
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I alternate buying the top two buildings plus cursors. I know cursors have a terrible ROI, but I want the 200 achievement. I'm up over 180 now, and they sure get pricey. I've got 100 of everything else, at least.

I think I'm going to try to do everything I can without cheating, but I read in this thread you eventually have to cheat to get a certain achievement. No prob. I have no moral qualms about cheating in video games. Whatever is the most enjoyable way for you, go for it, as long as it isn't an official score you want, or you're competing against others who don't cheat.

Sounds like at some point I'll have to do a soft reset or something. Still haven't figured out what these "Heavenly chips" are.
I sell all my cheap stuff so that I only ever have the top 3 building types going, and even then the lowest one isn't that useful once I get to 8-10 of the top one. Achievements are the only reason to hold onto them.
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:44 AM
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Eventually, you'll get to a point where cursors and grandmas are the only objects that add significant CPS, and other objects are worth more for their contribution to your cursors than they are for their direct benefit.

That's in the mathematical sense of "eventually", though, and I doubt anyone's ever gotten to that point even with continual play since the game was created.
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