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Old 09-13-2018, 02:12 PM
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While people can certainly be amazingly oblivious, the problem with this theory is her banging on the door demanding to be let in. That simply makes no sense if she thought it was her apartment, where she lived alone.
Obviously you are correct if what they heard was Guyger. But we need to be a little bit circumspect when we don't have these claimed witness accounts first hand, or any kind of critical analysis of those accounts - so far as I'm aware at this stage it's hearsay from Jean's attorney. For all we know this could have been much later, it could have been other cops or paramedics arriving and the door had swung shut.

But ultimately if Jean's attorney is right, it sounds like there's likely to be enough at trial between witness accounts and prior noise complaints to take apart her implausible story about thinking she was in her own apartment.

Last edited by Riemann; 09-13-2018 at 02:17 PM.
  #252  
Old 09-13-2018, 02:22 PM
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I think what makes the most sense is after a long shift she had a little down time with her crew. Maybe they imbibed a little.

They sent out the 15hr shift story to accommodate the timing and not raise questions about where she was, and what she was doing, in the time after her maybe 12hr shift. This is an very easy thing to fudge I suspect.

The report I read, said they delayed doing the drug/alcohol test, but not mentioning by how long. That seems suspicious if true.

Being a little impaired would go a long way to explaining the series of oversights, the wrong parking spot, wrong floor, red doormat, wrong apartment. And the instant firing of her weapon into a dimly lit room.

I think it’s probably pretty easy to fudge the drug/alcohol test too, if you’ve got friends on the force.
(Who were maybe having a few with you.)

I think this most readily explains all the facts. But I also think if this is true, she’ll be cleared when the d/a test comes back negative.

Last edited by elbows; 09-13-2018 at 02:23 PM.
  #253  
Old 09-13-2018, 02:31 PM
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I think what makes the most sense is after a long shift she had a little down time with her crew. Maybe they imbibed a little.

They sent out the 15hr shift story to accommodate the timing and not raise questions about where she was, and what she was doing, in the time after her maybe 12hr shift. This is an very easy thing to fudge I suspect.

The report I read, said they delayed doing the drug/alcohol test, but not mentioning by how long. That seems suspicious if true.

Being a little impaired would go a long way to explaining the series of oversights, the wrong parking spot, wrong floor, red doormat, wrong apartment. And the instant firing of her weapon into a dimly lit room...
Right, but all of your first 3 paragraphs are also consistent with the idea that after this long shift and a few drinks, she decided to go and confront him about a prior noise beef, thinking that if she went in uniform she could intimidate him. Even with alcohol and fatigue, that's still far more plausible than the idea that she really didn't notice she was on the wrong floor. And the intoxication issue would still be highly pertinent in explaining how a plan to give him a lecture about noise turned into shooting him.

Last edited by Riemann; 09-13-2018 at 02:33 PM.
  #254  
Old 09-13-2018, 03:09 PM
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Thing is, the alternate explanation, that he's throwing gang signs at father-in-law's birthday family photo is equally, and I would say even more, silly.
Not that i find the gang sign theory plausible but do they know what the nature of his tattoos are? Any sign of white supremacy sympathy in them?

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Nope, i don't think that's what happened. However, what may have happened was this:

She got home after a difficult, long, stressful shift & the guy directly upstairs happened to be making a lot of noise (so she couldn't sleep/rest). So, she went upstairs, yelled to him to open the door, and then things immediately escalated to the point that she shot him. Completely plausible. Then, she turned around and made up the "wrong apartment" story to explain the shooting.

Obviously I have no way of knowing whether this is what happened.....but, given the initial story & the neighbors' testimony - it makes sense.
A man alone at night, at home, in his underwear, in the dark, making excessive noise. That, on its face, seems unlikely.

Last edited by Ambivalid; 09-13-2018 at 03:10 PM.
  #255  
Old 09-13-2018, 03:16 PM
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A man alone at night, at home, in his underwear, in the dark, making excessive noise. That, on its face, seems unlikely.
Maybe he was yelling "Woooooo! I'm masterbating like a motherfuck!" ?
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Old 09-13-2018, 03:40 PM
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Again, we don't know what happened. But it's possible he had the radio/music on loud - that sound really carries in apartments.

However, you're right that this is all speculative. That being said, I don't believe the story about the door being ajar & her firing into the apartment at the "dark shape".
  #257  
Old 09-13-2018, 03:53 PM
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I think what makes the most sense is after a long shift she had a little down time with her crew. Maybe they imbibed a little.

They sent out the 15hr shift story to accommodate the timing and not raise questions about where she was, and what she was doing, in the time after her maybe 12hr shift. This is an very easy thing to fudge I suspect.

The report I read, said they delayed doing the drug/alcohol test, but not mentioning by how long. That seems suspicious if true.

Being a little impaired would go a long way to explaining the series of oversights, the wrong parking spot, wrong floor, red doormat, wrong apartment. And the instant firing of her weapon into a dimly lit room.

I think it’s probably pretty easy to fudge the drug/alcohol test too, if you’ve got friends on the force.
(Who were maybe having a few with you.)

I think this most readily explains all the facts. But I also think if this is true, she’ll be cleared when the d/a test comes back negative.
Because shooting an innocent man is just fine if you're sober?

Oh wait, cop shoots black man. That explains it all away.
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Old 09-13-2018, 03:55 PM
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Again, we don't know what happened. But it's possible he had the radio/music on loud - that sound really carries in apartments.
Especially that "bass-heavy noise" that the blacks listen to.


/sarcasm
  #259  
Old 09-13-2018, 05:15 PM
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The police searched Jean's apartment for narcotics.
https://reason.com/blog/2018/09/12/frfrfr
  #260  
Old 09-13-2018, 05:41 PM
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Every level of a parking deck looks identical.

I can understand someone parking on the wrong level. Walk through the glass doors, into the hallway, and your apartment is the sixth door on the left. Even the colors of the doors are the same on each floor.

Except it's not because you're on the wrong floor.

Usually that results in fumbling with a key that refuses to work in the lock.

Been there, done that. Several times.

It's extremely tragic that door was ajar or unlocked. One life taken and the other's future destroyed.

The off duty officer should have glanced around and realized it wasn't her apartment. She screwed up and will probably get prison time for that stupidity.
All this is clear and understandable.
It is likely she made a simple mistake, and reacted by shooting the "intruder".
So far, a routine if tragic mistake.
.
But.
WHY was she not arrested and charged for ***several days*** after the killing?
Quote from the article: "Thursday's fatal shooting by Dallas officer Amber Guyger, who told authorities that she had mistaken the neighbor's apartment for her own.

She was arrested Sunday night"

This clearly shows preferential treatment towards her. If a civilian were to walk in to a cop's apartment and kill him, the civilian would be arrested **immediately**, if he was lucky not to get shot 73 times.
  #261  
Old 09-13-2018, 05:41 PM
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A man alone at night, at home, in his underwear, in the dark, making excessive noise. That, on its face, seems unlikely.
But I think the hypothesis is not that she's responding to current noise, but that she had previously complained about noise, perhaps more than once, and decided at the end of her shift (on the way home) to first stop at his apartment, in uniform, to confront him about it.

Last edited by Riemann; 09-13-2018 at 05:43 PM.
  #262  
Old 09-13-2018, 05:52 PM
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But I think the hypothesis is not that she's responding to current noise, but that she had previously complained about noise, perhaps more than once, and decided at the end of her shift (on the way home) to first stop at his apartment, in uniform, to confront him about it.
Ah, ok. Still though, seems an inappropriate or at least odd time to confront an apartment neighbor face-to-face to address previous noise issues. 10:00 at night? But it does make more sense than the scenario I was responding to. But that is still a pretty low bar.
  #263  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:00 PM
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The police searched Jean's apartment for narcotics.
https://reason.com/blog/2018/09/12/frfrfr

This is beyond fucked be up.
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:20 PM
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Ah, ok. Still though, seems an inappropriate or at least odd time to confront an apartment neighbor face-to-face to address previous noise issues. 10:00 at night? But it does make more sense than the scenario I was responding to. But that is still a pretty low bar.
I'm picturing a scenario where's she's tired, drunk, and/or drugged, and on the way home got a bug in her ear about how he kept her up two nights ago, and that's not gonna happen tonight, dammit!! And so she stopped by to have a little chat...
  #265  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:21 PM
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Because shooting an innocent man is just fine if you're sober?

Oh wait, cop shoots black man. That explains it all away.
Please show me where I implied it was aok if she was sober.

I clearly did not imply any such thing!
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:24 PM
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I'm picturing a scenario where's she's tired, drunk, and/or drugged, and on the way home got a bug in her ear about how he kept her up two nights ago, and that's not gonna happen tonight, dammit!! And so she stopped by to have a little chat...
Exactly. And so she goes there directly, and in uniform, thinking as a cop she can intimidate him. And after things go to shit, since she parked on his floor, she thinks up this lame story about mistaken apartments.

If this is what happened, am I unreasonably optimistic that any evidence that she filed out a prior noise complaint will surely be enough that any jury will dismiss her implausible story?
  #267  
Old 09-13-2018, 06:48 PM
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This is beyond fucked be up.
...yah think that's fucked up?

BLM Activist Shaun King asked the police for the results of the search on Guyger's home.

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Originally Posted by Shaun King
BREAKING: Since authorities searched the apartment of murder victim #BothamJean & released the results I just asked them for the results of the warrant of Amber Guyger's home -since she was the perpetrator.

Guess what they said?

IT DOES NOT EXIST.

They NEVER searched her home!
https://twitter.com/shaunking/status...81511302828033

They protect their own.
  #268  
Old 09-13-2018, 07:36 PM
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The police searched Jean's apartment for narcotics.
https://reason.com/blog/2018/09/12/frfrfr
FWIW I've seen people who are familiar with Texas search warrants say that the "any contraband, such as narcotics" language is boilerplate on all warrants.

(Though they are now trying to push that OMG he had the devil weed in his apartment.)

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 09-13-2018 at 07:37 PM.
  #269  
Old 09-13-2018, 07:41 PM
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What makes more sense here? That he's flashing white supremacist signs that happen to look like a 69 (from the brother-in-law's perspective) at a 69th birthday party family photo, or that he is, simply, flashing the age of the father? It would also be dead simple for the media to look up the age of the dad and contradict the story if the age doesn't line up with his explanation for the 2016 photo.
Cant say that looks all that much 69. We will just disagree. Gang signs make more sense to me.


@ Banquet Bear: That is fucked up. Wouldn't the OBVIOUS thing to do be search the shooters apt?
  #270  
Old 09-13-2018, 09:22 PM
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I have nothing constructive to add beyond how absolutely furious this makes me. She entered a man’s home with no warrant and no suspicion and shot him dead just for the crime of living in his own home. It’s unbelievable.

Do police officers actually understand why people hate them? Or is that just the one mystery that they can’t figure out? They can take their macho, self-righteous, ‘sheepdog’ bullshit and choke on it. Fuck cops.

I might have missed it, but I’m waiting for a badge bunny to show up and tell me how Jean was a ‘thug’ who had it coming, and it’s his own fault for holding a phone or not being obedient enough, or any of the other 900 excuses they make so that cops can get away with murder.

Last edited by JB99; 09-13-2018 at 09:25 PM.
  #271  
Old 09-13-2018, 09:44 PM
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Why would the police search her home? It's not where the crime happened. Mr. Jean's apartment was where it happened. It's understandable that police would search a crime scene. (Distinguish from Minneapolis PD searching Ms. Justine Damon's residence, when she was shot in the street.)

AIUI Dallas PD did find some weed in Jean's apartment, less than half an ounce, along with two shell casings and other evidence. Big deal. Still doesn't excuse her shooting him, even if Jean looked like an extra from Cheech & Chong.

I can barely see the glimmer of an attempt by Guyger's team to assert that she tried to give him an order to stop approaching her, while she was outside, and in uniform, and that Jean's possible intoxication on weed led him to respond slowly or not perceive her commands. I don't agree with that, but I can see the argument being made.
  #272  
Old 09-13-2018, 10:09 PM
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Why would the police search her home? It's not where the crime happened. Mr. Jean's apartment was where it happened. It's understandable that police would search a crime scene. (Distinguish from Minneapolis PD searching Ms. Justine Damon's residence, when she was shot in the street.)

AIUI Dallas PD did find some weed in Jean's apartment, less than half an ounce, along with two shell casings and other evidence. Big deal. Still doesn't excuse her shooting him, even if Jean looked like an extra from Cheech & Chong.

I can barely see the glimmer of an attempt by Guyger's team to assert that she tried to give him an order to stop approaching her, while she was outside, and in uniform, and that Jean's possible intoxication on weed led him to respond slowly or not perceive her commands. I don't agree with that, but I can see the argument being made.
The arrest warrant (Link is up-thread.) says she stated she entered the apartment. She did not shoot him from outside the apartment. The warrant says she stated she went back to check the door to find out what apartment she was in, and that's when she "discovered" she was in the wrong apartment. And actually, he couldn't have resembled either Cheech or Chong because the apartment was dark, and she'd just been in a lighted hallway.

Her story has more holes than a lace tablecloth. Her attorney had better have a whole lot of thread.
  #273  
Old 09-13-2018, 10:19 PM
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Cant say that looks all that much 69. We will just disagree. Gang signs make more sense to me.
That conveniently and coincidentally look like a 69, the age of the father at the time of the photo? Seems rather like a huge stretch to me, but okay.... I will admit, I thought gang sign at first, but the explanation pans out to me and the level of coincidence of age and handsign (and the idea the brother-in-law was quick enough to think--hey--lucky me! turns out my white power handsign looks convincingly enough like a 6 and 9, just like my father-in-law's age!) is just far too remote.

But speculation on this matter is rather an unimportant sidebar. The whole shooting story stinks to high heaven.

Last edited by pulykamell; 09-13-2018 at 10:21 PM.
  #274  
Old 09-13-2018, 10:48 PM
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Uh oh... local Fox affiliate says that according to a search warrant... marijuana was found in the victim’s apartment!!

My word! This changes EVERYTHING!
  #275  
Old 09-14-2018, 08:06 AM
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@ Banquet Bear: That is fucked up. Wouldn't the OBVIOUS thing to do be search the shooters apt?
Why? Why would the police want to look for marijuana in one of their own’s apartment? It’s not going to help their case against the victim.

That thing about the police officer who manhandled and arrested the nurse in Utah was because the police wanted a blood draw on the victim of a fatal accident caused by someone running from the cops in a “bad” chase.

The police need to be thorough when looking for dirt on victims of police actions. Not so thorough when it comes to policing the police.

Even if that’s not 100% accurate, it sure as hell seems that way.
  #276  
Old 09-14-2018, 09:10 AM
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Cant say that looks all that much 69. We will just disagree. Gang signs make more sense to me.
The "69" is reversed. If you look at it from the perspective of the guy flashing the sign, it looks exactly like a 69. Unless of course you got a hankering for witch burn'n. Then I guess it looks like "gang" sign.
  #277  
Old 09-14-2018, 09:14 AM
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding. I thought that in Bricker's hypo, it actually was her apartment, not that she only thought it was. If it's her actual apartment, and Mr. Jean is wandering around it in his undies at 10 PM with all the lights out, then her killing him when he won't show his hands (or whatever else he did that'd give a reasonable person in her situation the reasonable apprehension of immediate serious bodily harm---a home intruder who won't show his hands, and is much bigger than you to boot, counts) is justifiable in Texas.

Instead, he's in his own apartment, and she is making a Mistake of Fact about which apartment she's sitting in front of. Mistake of Fact is a term in the Texas Penal Code, and its effects as a defense to criminal prosecution may be found at § 8.02. https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-c...sect-8-02.html Which reads:

So, for this to help Guyger avoid responsibility for Murder, which is the appropriate charge when you knowingly or intentionally unlawfully kill someone, the mistake must "form a reasonable belief about a matter of fact," and that the mistake must "negate the culpability required" for the offense. In short, she's not setting out to go confront Jean, like she would be if the theory holds water that she was going to his apartment to yell at him about his music volume, and then in that encounter got so pissed off at him that she blasted him. That would be Murder.

Instead, if her story in the affidavit is true, she's trying to defend herself from an intruder in her place. Which is a mistake. Rather than remove all criminal responsibility from her, I'd argue that her mistake that she was at her own apartment is the result of her negligence, and that this negligence is so overwhelming that it constituted a reckless disregard for the facts. Therefore her killing of Jean was the result of reckless conduct, despite shooting him being a intentional volitional act, and Manslaughter would be the appropriate charge. If you instead think that her negligence was only ordinary, not reckless, then Criminally Negligent Homicide would be the appropriate charge.

I don't think she should avoid criminal liability for what she's done, given the evidence we have so far. I just think that she lacks the mens rea for murder, and that Bricker's hypo was helpful to establish why.

Also, nothing says that you have to believe her story that she made a mistake in thinking it was her apartment. If you disbelieve her story, such that there's no reasonable doubt in your mind that she could think she was in her own place, because it just doesn't make sense to you, then there's no mistake of fact. If there's no mistake of fact, then what we have is a voluntary act in shooting Jean, where you know there's a very high probability that he'll die as a result. Which means she knowingly unlawfully caused his death, which means Murder.
Excellent issue-spotting.
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  #278  
Old 09-14-2018, 09:25 AM
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Here's where Bricker's hypo breaks down - opinion. My wife and I are fans of Investigation Discovery TV. We watch several true crime dramas a day and have for several years. In almost every case, the defense attorney quotes state law, statutes, etc and states unequivocally how their client was complying with the laws and how they were right. In almost every case their client goes to jail. Being a lawyer and quoting state law will not make you right or keep your client from going to jail if they have done something despicable.

Again, Bricker is just another lawyer. In almost every case that goes to trial there are two opposing ones. One always loses.
Your intense study of the subject area is obviously formidable, but I'd gently suggest that cases that go to trial are a subset of shootings that happen, and a prosecutor who believes the evidence before him does not support guilt beyond a reasonable doubt never comes to trial in the first place.

Again, I'm discussing what the specifics of the law are about a resident shooting in her own apartment, which is not what happened here.

Your rebuttal appears to be that defense attorneys sometimes lose cases at at trial.
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:21 PM
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The local Dallas Fox News station (of course) reported that, horrors, marijuana has been found in Jean's house.
  #280  
Old 09-14-2018, 01:23 PM
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I don't understand why they are not searching the shooter's apartment. Don't committers of crimes have their things searched?
  #281  
Old 09-14-2018, 02:02 PM
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I don't understand why they are not searching the shooter's apartment. Don't committers of crimes have their things searched?
In my opinion you should only search somebody's property if you believe that it would provide additional information regarding the crime.

If the police already know she was drunk and stoned out of her mind from what they saw when they arrived on the scene, there is no reason to search her apartment.
  #282  
Old 09-14-2018, 02:30 PM
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In my opinion you should only search somebody's property if you believe that it would provide additional information regarding the crime.

If the police already know she was drunk and stoned out of her mind from what they saw when they arrived on the scene, there is no reason to search her apartment.
It could have turned up a motive for a deliberate murder.
  #283  
Old 09-14-2018, 02:38 PM
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It could have turned up a motive for a deliberate murder.
They are already devoting all their time looking for evidence against the victim-how much more can you expect of them?
  #284  
Old 09-14-2018, 02:42 PM
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In my opinion you should only search somebody's property if you believe that it would provide additional information regarding the crime.

If the police already know she was drunk and stoned out of her mind from what they saw when they arrived on the scene, there is no reason to search her apartment.
I would think it would be because of this:

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It could have turned up a motive for a deliberate murder.
  #285  
Old 09-14-2018, 03:05 PM
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I would think it would be because of this:
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It could have turned up a motive for a deliberate murder.
"It could turn up," is not the standard needed for a search warrant.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:09 PM
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"It could turn up," is not the standard needed for a search warrant.
Neither is "He was murdered", but guess what?
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:11 PM
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I didn't mean that was the standard. I thought it would be standard to look at the apartment of a person who kills someone like this. Just as, like, something that police regularly did.
  #288  
Old 09-14-2018, 03:24 PM
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Bricker and Gray Ghost:
Quote:
I thought that in Bricker's hypo, it actually was her apartment, not that she only thought it was. If it's her actual apartment, and Mr. Jean is wandering around it in his undies at 10 PM with all the lights out, then her killing him when he won't show his hands (or whatever else he did that'd give a reasonable person in her situation the reasonable apprehension of immediate serious bodily harm---a home intruder who won't show his hands, and is much bigger than you to boot, counts) is justifiable in Texas.
Thanks to both Bricker and Gray Ghost for this analysis. What's the case in Texas if it's too dark in the apartment for her to see his hands or if he shows compliance? Again, lights off, almost totally dark (according to arrest warrant), and she's entering from a lighted hallway.
  #289  
Old 09-14-2018, 03:29 PM
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They are already devoting all their time looking for evidence against the victim-how much more can you expect of them?
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Neither is "He was murdered", but guess what?
If there wasn't a search warrant for the scene of a killing by a police officer for things such as shell casings, home surveillance video that may exist, etc., you'd be complaining about that, too.
  #290  
Old 09-14-2018, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by x-ray vision View Post
If there wasn't a search warrant for the scene of a killing by a police officer for things such as shell casings, home surveillance video that may exist, etc., you'd be complaining about that, too.
That's why the big announcement was that they found a little pot.
right back atcha.
  #291  
Old 09-14-2018, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
That's why the big announcement was that they found a little pot.
right back atcha.
Who cares what the media announced? You claimed "they are already devoting all their time looking for evidence against the victim" and that being murdered isn't a standard for a search warrant, inferring that is the reason there was one. If there was not a search warrant issued, you wouldn't be complaining about that for the reasons I posted?
  #292  
Old 09-14-2018, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by x-ray vision View Post
Who cares what the media announced? You claimed "they are already devoting all their time looking for evidence against the victim" and that being murdered isn't a standard for a search warrant, inferring that is the reason there was one. If there was not a search warrant issued, you wouldn't be complaining about that for the reasons I posted?
It's not about what they announced. It's about what they found. If they were just looking for evidence from the cop, then they would not have found the pot. Finding the pot thus suggests their reason for the search is to find a way to blame the victim.

Now maybe they just have procedures that say that, if they stumble upon pot, they have to include it, and they won't actually use it to try and defend the cop. If so, great. But, if they do use that, then I share Czarcasm's outlook.

The victim being on pot would not in any way change the material elements of the story as given. It would only be brought up to make jurors think the victim is a druggie and use their natural prejudice to get them to side with the cop.
  #293  
Old 09-14-2018, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BigT View Post
It's not about what they announced. It's about what they found. If they were just looking for evidence from the cop, then they would not have found the pot. Finding the pot thus suggests their reason for the search is to find a way to blame the victim.
Followed by:

Quote:
Now maybe they just have procedures that say that, if they stumble upon pot, they have to include it
The second quote does not follow the first. Finding the pot suggests their reason for the search is to find a way to blame the victim...unless they have procedures that say "they have to include it." That's a big "if."

Quote:
But, if they do use that, then I share Czarcasm's outlook.
It's irrelevant if "they" use it. If it's something that has to be included in the report, then it has to be included regardless of what a lawyer does with the information in defense of his client at some future time.

What I commented on regarding "Czarcasm's outlook" was his claim that "they are already devoting all their time looking for evidence against the victim" and the inference that that was a reason a search warrant was issued. No, "he was murdered" is not the standard needed for a search warrant, and no one claimed it was.

People that are complaining that a search warrant was issued would be complaining much more if they found out that one wasn't issued and evidence such as the type I mentioned was not searched for or could be suppressed.

Last edited by x-ray vision; 09-14-2018 at 04:36 PM.
  #294  
Old 09-14-2018, 04:44 PM
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A man alone at night, at home, in his underwear, in the dark, making excessive noise. That, on its face, seems unlikely.
This is called "Wednesday" at my house.
  #295  
Old 09-15-2018, 07:37 AM
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So, why exactly hasn't she been fired yet? Yes, yes, we're still waiting for all of the facts to come in... but her own story, even if we believe it completely, already shows more than sufficient justification for firing her.

And about that noise complaint filed the same day as the shooting, at what time was that complaint made? During the time that she was supposedly on shift? After she got off shift, implying that she did in fact stop at her own actual apartment?
  #296  
Old 09-15-2018, 07:43 AM
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The victim being on pot would not in any way change the material elements of the story as given. It would only be brought up to make jurors think the victim is a druggie and use their natural prejudice to get them to side with the cop.
Yes, why is the dead guy who was in his own home getting tested for drugs, but not the woman who couldn't remember where her own apartment was?
  #297  
Old 09-15-2018, 08:54 AM
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So, why exactly hasn't she been fired yet? Yes, yes, we're still waiting for all of the facts to come in... but her own story, even if we believe it completely, already shows more than sufficient justification for firing her.
This would occur in most normal jobs. But many LEOs are members of a union, and there are a bunch of convoluted rules & procedures that must be followed before you can fire one.
  #298  
Old 09-15-2018, 09:42 AM
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Unions can be cooperative in such matters if they want to be. But white cop / black victim means the Blue Wall goes up pretty much automatically.
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Old 09-15-2018, 10:06 AM
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Yeah, any mention of whether the victim had marijuana or not is (or should be) completely irrelevant to the incident. It has nothing to do with the circumstances under which the cop shot him.

Last edited by Velocity; 09-15-2018 at 10:07 AM.
  #300  
Old 09-15-2018, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Gray Ghost View Post
AIUI Dallas PD did find some weed in Jean's apartment, less than half an ounce, along with two shell casings and other evidence. Big deal. Still doesn't excuse her shooting him, even if Jean looked like an extra from Cheech & Chong.

I can barely see the glimmer of an attempt by Guyger's team to assert that she tried to give him an order to stop approaching her, while she was outside, and in uniform, and that Jean's possible intoxication on weed led him to respond slowly or not perceive her commands. I don't agree with that, but I can see the argument being made.

It is a big deal. The two shell casings found inside the apartment help to establish where the shooter was when she shot the victim. That is a significant fact in determining the sequence of events.

And, they need a search warrant to do that. The victim is dead, but someone still owns that apartment. Absent exigent circumstances, which didn't exist here, they needed a warrant to search the apartment.
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