Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 07-22-2019, 09:53 AM
Oneilla is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHYPO View Post
S6E5:

Wedding ring: It's extremely clear that where he "Drops" her ring into the hanky is nowhere near where the "ring" he gives her to hold is. Pretty sloppy slight on that one, imo, especially in his day in age when anyone worth half their salt knows that move is coming. At that point, it's just about getting it from his palming to his shoe. Not much for me to say, as there doesn't seem to be anything to see. It just appears on his shoe in the first shot of his show after he has her "drop" the hanky. Which I am guessing is the misdirection to ensure no one is looking at his shoe. Pretty sure it's not there in the last wide shot before that. The mention of Ring Flight is a trick very much like this one. Dave Bonsall created one version that seems very well regarded, and to his credit. he actually essentially explains the trick on a promo video for the gimick he sells: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/4183 - you can see that it's basically a clip on a reel - so I assume you extend the reel, up the back of your jacket, down your sleeve and perhaps it clips inside the cuff of your jacket until you are ready - than you clip the ring in your hand to it, release it, and it retracts to your back pocket on your keychain.

Penn obviously thinks he built a reel into his shoe and ran the line through his jacket and maybe also his pants in a re-engineered ring flight. They get busted on thinking it goes through his clothes. It COULD be as simply as him not running the line to his clothes. An invisible line straight from the shoe to his hand or the hanky could do it - but he did say they were "far away" from his method... he doesn't bend down, and the ring clearly appears on his show mid-trick - so he MUST have something that either "reels"/pulls the ring to his shoe, or otherwise transports it.

I just noticed something. Right before it first appears on his show, he prompts applauds - perhaps an audio cover? When he does this, he gathers the hanky with an odd hand-position of his right hand. Then he lays the hanky out suspiciously, then lets it dangle right over his shoe-top. This is almost certainly the moment of truth (that they air from a very wide angle that shows the move but also hides the appearance of the ring - I think they have a rule that they cut out an important move from the airing so the audience doesn't see the moment the trick occurs). He has some mechanism to transport the ring from his hand, behind the hanky, to his shoe. P&T certainly miss it because in a first viewing, they have no idea the ring will end up on his shoe, so they aren't looking for a move there. Misdirecting where the ring will end up means P&T are looking in the wrong place, expecting the wrong move - a clever strategy for this particular show. I don't think the ladder had ANYTHING to do with the mechanism other than allowing him to display his shoe in a more visual manner, and provide more misdirection.


.

Good writeup.

Two other little things I noticed: He takes the ring from the spectator while they're on the floor rather than on stage, he turns his back to the audience/P&T and seems to be doing something with the ring/hanky as they walk back onto the stage.

He doesn't hand them the belt when giving them the tearaway suit to examine, just leaves it with Alysson.


Penn's explicit guess was that the ring went through his clothes. There was a fooler who did a somewhat similar trick years ago who made a correct prediction written on a piece of paper appear in his shoe and P&T guessed that he sent the paper through the clothes but the magician got the paper into is shoe from below via a hole in the shoe.

Richard Bellars Fooler trick


Richard Bellars fooler trick method

Last edited by Oneilla; 07-22-2019 at 09:56 AM.
  #102  
Old 07-22-2019, 10:21 AM
Oneilla is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Wedding ring guy commented on a YT video that his trick was inspired by Richard Sanders who sells a commercial trick where a ring is vanished and appears on a shoelace - https://wizardmagic.com/street-perfo...ers-trick.html

Quote:


Interlace by Richard Sanders - Trick




$99.95

Effect

Borrow any ring, from any spectator, wave a lighter under it and it's gone! The spectator looks down at your shoe and now, hanging from the loop of your shoelace is their borrowed ring!

The ring is untied and slowly pulled off of the lace and given back to the spectator...no switches!
No duplicate rings
No switches
No pulls or reels
No Reset - Immediately Repeatable
Angle Proof
Brand new principle in magic
10 amazing handling included
Use sneakers or Dress shoes
Devastating reactions every time!
You never bend down or go anywhere near your shoe at any point during the effect. The same borrowed ring in your hand is the same borrowed ring that ends up hanging from the loop of your shoelace seconds later!

What To Expect:

You will learn how to cause any borrowed ring to vanish and appear tied to your own shoelace! You receive all the props, plus a full length DVD featuring all the moves, tips, handlings and subtleties. Get ready to blow away your audience with Interlace The miracle ring on shoelace.
Caratala kind of bends his right knee after the fancy hanky move.
  #103  
Old 07-22-2019, 02:12 PM
Quercus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: temperate forest
Posts: 7,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHYPO View Post
S6E5:
Kevin Blake - I don't see anything fishy after he moves P&T's hands, so there must be a force. My first inclination is that when he assures there's no markings, then does "one more shuffle", I wondered if he was somehow doing a deck swap. Penn's card he gets Penn to pick with his finger moving from the left, and Teller picks with him moving from the right - I wonder if it was a deck of identical cards - left half Penn's card, right half Teller's. Then with his cardistry during the rap, maybe he swaps it back so they can examine it at the end.
Well, my guess is that the cards really were a fair choice; but he manages to read them somehow and get the info to his sound guy. Then, his sound guy just has to look at the hundred and four MP3s that Blake pre-recorded, and play Penn3Hearts.mp3, and TellerJackClubs.mp3 (or whatever the actual cards were; I don't remember).

I'm less sure about how he read the cards; I wonder if there's something in the table than can sense cards, as the chosen cards are held in a particular spot flush against the table for a longish time with no other cards around. The table could then transmit info directly to sound guy. Which makes sense; if Blake himself knew which cards P& T actually had, why not give the rap himself instead of playing the pre-recorded one?
  #104  
Old 07-22-2019, 02:47 PM
TriPolar is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 40,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHYPO View Post
S6E5:

I just noticed something. Right before it first appears on his show, he prompts applauds - perhaps an audio cover? When he does this, he gathers the hanky with an odd hand-position of his right hand. Then he lays the hanky out suspiciously, then lets it dangle right over his shoe-top. This is almost certainly the moment of truth (that they air from a very wide angle that shows the move but also hides the appearance of the ring - I think they have a rule that they cut out an important move from the airing so the audience doesn't see the moment the trick occurs). He has some mechanism to transport the ring from his hand, behind the hanky, to his shoe. P&T certainly miss it because in a first viewing, they have no idea the ring will end up on his shoe, so they aren't looking for a move there. Misdirecting where the ring will end up means P&T are looking in the wrong place, expecting the wrong move - a clever strategy for this particular show. I don't think the ladder had ANYTHING to do with the mechanism other than allowing him to display his shoe in a more visual manner, and provide more misdirection.

Think at that point the ring in in the cloth, at the bottom corner that falls to his shoe top, the ring is tied to a piece of shoe lace, attached to a piece of steel. As it comes in proximity to his shoe it is attracted to a magnet.

Because of glints of light on his shoe it's hard to tell exactly when the ring is put there, but it is clearly after that point and before he approaches the ladder. So the ladder is entirely misdirection.

Last edited by TriPolar; 07-22-2019 at 02:48 PM.
  #105  
Old 07-22-2019, 11:30 PM
cluck is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 108
Season 6, Episode 6 (July 22, 2019)

Jimmy Ichihana: Exact card cutting. Lots of moves here, too many to pin down, but impressive to watch one after the other. I thought Penn's reasoning was a bit of a cop-out, but apparently it all came down to "techniques" and "organization."

Sebastien Dethise: Herbert and Alyson the Duck (vaudeville-style routine). I've got to say, that's one talented and well-trained duck! According to Penn, there was a "pair of ducks" (one real, one not so much), but I watched the ending reveal a couple of times and I still have no idea where the fuck the duck came from.

Eric Samuels: Liar Magician (mentalist). Penn's explanation was simple enough that even I could understand it. There were 5 hidden (camouflaged) cards at the top of the board which adhered to the cards he stuck on top of them, and then he carefully turned both over to unveil TRUTH.

Rabby Yang: Rubik's squares (fooler). No clue how this was done, but then again I could never solve one of those cubes either. I thought an earpiece/backstage assistant would have been too obvious; I would have loved to know what Penn's own personal guess was. (Maybe he'll reveal it on his Sunday School podcast?)

Teller: Trace the face. Nice clean illusion, any idea how it was done? Double-paned glass?

Last edited by cluck; 07-22-2019 at 11:35 PM.
  #106  
Old 07-24-2019, 09:28 PM
zombywoof is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,272
Lift Off to Love (mentioned by Penn in the duck trick commentary) with a 68-year old Teller is pretty damn impressive, even with the concession that he doesn't wiggle his actual legs out the prop while upside down like he used to.

Last edited by zombywoof; 07-24-2019 at 09:32 PM.
  #107  
Old 07-24-2019, 09:50 PM
Mahaloth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: 地球
Posts: 29,833
Quote:
Originally Posted by cluck View Post

Rabby Yang: Rubik's squares (fooler). No clue how this was done, but then again I could never solve one of those cubes either. I thought an earpiece/backstage assistant would have been too obvious; I would have loved to know what Penn's own personal guess was. (Maybe he'll reveal it on his Sunday School podcast?)

Teller: Trace the face. Nice clean illusion, any idea how it was done? Double-paned glass?
1. If Penn shares his guess, someone please tell us what it is.

2. Trace the face. I have to know how this one was done. Yeesh, what a great routine.
  #108  
Old 07-25-2019, 06:19 AM
kventr is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3
I thought that the fooler act of the last episode (Rabby Yang) was the least impressive of the day.

Thing is Alyson is never really changing the structure of the cube, he just told her to turn it around as she wishes, so there are literally just six possibilities which he of course knows by heart because he himself has prearranged the cube. So the only thing he needs is some kind of a gyroscope, or whatever the name is for the device which keeps track of an orientation using sheer gravity, and some electronic means to get this information. He only needs to know which of the six sides is facing up at the moment.

I think it would be enough for Penn to mention "the gravity of the situation" or something like that to let the guy know he didn't fool them.

Last edited by kventr; 07-25-2019 at 06:20 AM.
  #109  
Old 07-25-2019, 10:40 AM
Sage Rat's Avatar
Sage Rat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Howdy
Posts: 21,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahaloth View Post
2. Trace the face. I have to know how this one was done. Yeesh, what a great routine.
Possibly there's some trick to it but I fear that...

SPOILER:
It's just a machine that copies the movements of the pens.
  #110  
Old 07-25-2019, 02:02 PM
Lare is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: My spot: 0,0,0,0
Posts: 1,075
I didn't tape it so I can't check, but my impression was that the face on the unbroken piece at the end looked different thant the one the woman drew (that was subsequently broken). Specifically, the right ear seemed more pronounced on the second glass leading me to think that it was pre-prepared to "sort of" match a general outline of a face that Teller would pick a close audience member match for.


He could expect that the woman's drawing would follow a general outline but I have no idea how he got her signature on it.
  #111  
Old 07-25-2019, 02:05 PM
Lare is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: My spot: 0,0,0,0
Posts: 1,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
Possibly there's some trick to it but I fear that...

SPOILER:
It's just a machine that copies the movements of the pens.

Called a
SPOILER:
pantograph, but I don't see how the source pen would transmit the data to the target one.
  #112  
Old 07-25-2019, 07:09 PM
Sage Rat's Avatar
Sage Rat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Howdy
Posts: 21,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lare View Post
Called a
SPOILER:
pantograph, but I don't see how the source pen would transmit the data to the target one.
SPOILER:
Bluetooth, probably.
  #113  
Old 07-26-2019, 10:38 AM
Lare is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: My spot: 0,0,0,0
Posts: 1,075
I was actually considering the physical mechanism that plots the X-Y position of the pen point. My first thought was about a cumbersome mechanical device*, although, with the state of electronics today I suppose something much smaller is not only possible but likely.


*= An image search shows many such.

Last edited by Lare; 07-26-2019 at 10:40 AM.
  #114  
Old 07-26-2019, 04:23 PM
johnnycab is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kventr View Post
I thought that the fooler act of the last episode (Rabby Yang) was the least impressive of the day.

Thing is Alyson is never really changing the structure of the cube, he just told her to turn it around as she wishes, so there are literally just six possibilities which he of course knows by heart because he himself has prearranged the cube. So the only thing he needs is some kind of a gyroscope, or whatever the name is for the device which keeps track of an orientation using sheer gravity, and some electronic means to get this information. He only needs to know which of the six sides is facing up at the moment.

I think it would be enough for Penn to mention "the gravity of the situation" or something like that to let the guy know he didn't fool them.
He even reiterates that he's only telling her to rotate it just before he does the big board solving, he actually shows us what he told her to do. As further proof, you can clearly see one of the patterns on the cube before he gives it to her is the same as the second pattern she shows.

Last edited by johnnycab; 07-26-2019 at 04:27 PM.
  #115  
Old 07-26-2019, 08:57 PM
Sage Rat's Avatar
Sage Rat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Howdy
Posts: 21,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lare View Post
I was actually considering the physical mechanism that plots the X-Y position of the pen point. My first thought was about a cumbersome mechanical device*, although, with the state of electronics today I suppose something much smaller is not only possible but likely.


*= An image search shows many such.
SPOILER:
I would just adapt a 3D printer to work sideways. The tricky bit is just changing the head. That would probably explain why Teller doesn't allow access to more than one color of pen at a time - and isn't in a hurry to switch over.
  #116  
Old 07-30-2019, 01:34 AM
TheHYPO is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quercus View Post
Well, my guess is that the cards really were a fair choice; but he manages to read them somehow and get the info to his sound guy. Then, his sound guy just has to look at the hundred and four MP3s that Blake pre-recorded, and play Penn3Hearts.mp3, and TellerJackClubs.mp3 (or whatever the actual cards were; I don't remember).

I'm less sure about how he read the cards; I wonder if there's something in the table than can sense cards, as the chosen cards are held in a particular spot flush against the table for a longish time with no other cards around. The table could then transmit info directly to sound guy. Which makes sense; if Blake himself knew which cards P& T actually had, why not give the rap himself instead of playing the pre-recorded one?

As I'm pretty sure I noted on this forum, it's FAR to coincidental if it's a free choice that those are the exact cards bookending the span he collects elsewhere in the trick. I can't believe it's a free choice.
  #117  
Old 07-30-2019, 01:38 AM
TheHYPO is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by cluck View Post
Season 6, Episode 6 (July 22, 2019)

Sebastien Dethise: Herbert and Alyson the Duck (vaudeville-style routine). I've got to say, that's one talented and well-trained duck! According to Penn, there was a "pair of ducks" (one real, one not so much), but I watched the ending reveal a couple of times and I still have no idea where the fuck the duck came from.
I think you're confusing two statements. There are two ducks, imo - one doing the boxwork and one always waiting in the briefcase for the final reveal.

As for the comment about two things on stage seeming the same but being different, I don't think Penn meant the ducks. He said the trick relys on the audience assuming a second thing is identical to the first one he shows the audience. I assume Penn means the two boxes - He shows box 1 to have a hollow bottom when he holds it up; I suspect box 2 where he puts the duck and it vanishes is gimicked in some way to allow him to fold it up and contain the duck in a secret compartment of some sort, and thus not the same as box 1 as the audience assumes.

Last edited by TheHYPO; 07-30-2019 at 01:39 AM.
  #118  
Old 07-30-2019, 01:54 AM
TheHYPO is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by kventr View Post
I thought that the fooler act of the last episode (Rabby Yang) was the least impressive of the day.

Thing is Alyson is never really changing the structure of the cube, he just told her to turn it around as she wishes, so there are literally just six possibilities which he of course knows by heart because he himself has prearranged the cube. So the only thing he needs is some kind of a gyroscope, or whatever the name is for the device which keeps track of an orientation using sheer gravity, and some electronic means to get this information. He only needs to know which of the six sides is facing up at the moment.

I think it would be enough for Penn to mention "the gravity of the situation" or something like that to let the guy know he didn't fool them.
This is a great catch. I totally misunderstood (and maybe that confuses most spectators) - I understood she was asked to manipulate the faces, not just rotate the cube. That really limits the impressiveness.

Still, skill or not, I didn't find this trick to actually be very entertaining in terms of performance regardless of the magic.
  #119  
Old 07-30-2019, 02:01 AM
TheHYPO is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lare View Post
I didn't tape it so I can't check, but my impression was that the face on the unbroken piece at the end looked different thant the one the woman drew (that was subsequently broken). Specifically, the right ear seemed more pronounced on the second glass leading me to think that it was pre-prepared to "sort of" match a general outline of a face that Teller would pick a close audience member match for.


He could expect that the woman's drawing would follow a general outline but I have no idea how he got her signature on it.
There's absolutely no way it's this. There is zero way to tell what she will use green or pink for - or that she would have drawn clothes over his body, or what shape she'd do his head or that she'd add pupils to the drawing.

This simply is NOT a way they would have done this trick. Impossible.
  #120  
Old 07-30-2019, 10:28 AM
Sage Rat's Avatar
Sage Rat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Howdy
Posts: 21,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHYPO View Post
This is a great catch. I totally misunderstood (and maybe that confuses most spectators) - I understood she was asked to manipulate the faces, not just rotate the cube. That really limits the impressiveness.

Still, skill or not, I didn't find this trick to actually be very entertaining in terms of performance regardless of the magic.
It is an interesting point. He does an example for her of what he means by "turn it" behind his back - which we can't see - so it is quite possible for him to have made it explicit to her that he meant full turns of the cube whole the audience was given to understand it to be something else based on their expectations and the ambiguity of his words allowing them to go down the wrong path.

Otherwise, yeah, I would probably have to go with....

SPOILER:
Frickin' gyroscopes!


I'd be curious, for anyone who listens to Penn's podcast, whether he guessed correctly.
  #121  
Old 07-30-2019, 09:15 PM
cluck is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 108
Season 6, Episode 7 (July 29, 2019)

Hans Petter Secker: Fortune teller. There should be more tricks done with tarot cards; they're way more interesting to look at than standard playing cards. Anyway, it's clear the corresponding cards were forced on top of the pictures somehow, though I think revealing that the rest of the deck was blank may have tipped his hand too far. I watched it again and I'm still not entirely sure how he did it, but Penn mentions Lennart Green and Gemini Twins, for reference.

Xulio Merino: Spongeologist (fooler). I've seen P&T perform the cups and balls routine so many times (which seemed to incorporate a lot of the same moves as this), I figured they had this one in the bag. I noticed a lot of the sponge balls were in varying sizes and shapes, so I think they were being squeezed together and pulled apart, but that didn't make it any less amazing to watch. The act kept going on and on too, which I think really impressed the boys and automatically earned an FU.

Zoe Lafleur: 12-year-old magician. This young lady had such a strong, confident stage presence (which I've never had, at any age), so kudos to her. The act looked very clean and transparent to me and stumped me completely. In addition to mentioning gambling techniques (?), the code word seemed to be "crimper," but I have no idea what that means. P&T can be a bunch of heartless bastards sometimes, but it would be cool if she comes back to perform in the future.

Josh Farley: Crossword puzzle contortionism. I must be feeling very gullible today because all these tricks baffled me. I have no idea where the lady went, how the kid (short panda) got in the box and stuck his hand out the top, or how the lady wound up at the table at the end (replacing the taller panda, who I guess ducked under the table). Penn referred to the dollhouse illusion, which seemingly has the person sitting in back of the box with legs tucked inside the table, which seems like an impossibly tight fit.

Penn & Teller: Juggler vs. magician. I'm not sure if I totally get the point of this trick. Why did Teller get the bigger applause? I'm assuming the audience was signaled to applaud for him or something else was cut out.
  #122  
Old 07-30-2019, 09:48 PM
Lare is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: My spot: 0,0,0,0
Posts: 1,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHYPO View Post
There's absolutely no way it's this. There is zero way to tell what she will use green or pink for - or that she would have drawn clothes over his body, or what shape she'd do his head or that she'd add pupils to the drawing.

This simply is NOT a way they would have done this trick. Impossible.

Except that Teller was standing next to her, handing her the pens and could have been quietly (for want of a better term) "leading" her with subtle suggestions like "Don't forget his shirt?"

As to the shspe of his head, if you're looking straight on at someone through a glass pane and I tell you to draw/trace their features, the shape of their head on the drawing is a pretty forgone conclusion.

This is a variation of what mentalists often do where they have someone draw something that (mostly) matches a prepared drawing.

But I don't know and was offering a potential solution with the qualifier that I was going by memory with no way to check, so...

Last edited by Lare; 07-30-2019 at 09:50 PM.
  #123  
Old 07-30-2019, 11:41 PM
Nars Glinley is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sweeping down the plain.
Posts: 5,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by cluck View Post
Season 6, Episode 7 (July 29, 2019)
Zoe Lafleur: 12-year-old magician. This young lady had such a strong, confident stage presence (which I've never had, at any age), so kudos to her. The act looked very clean and transparent to me and stumped me completely. In addition to mentioning gambling techniques (?), the code word seemed to be "crimper," but I have no idea what that means. P&T can be a bunch of heartless bastards sometimes, but it would be cool if she comes back to perform in the future.
She pretty obviously dealt from the bottom of the deck at one point so Iím sure that that was part of it.
__________________
I've decided to spend more time criticizing things I don't understand. - Dogbert
  #124  
Old 07-31-2019, 12:58 AM
Sage Rat's Avatar
Sage Rat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Howdy
Posts: 21,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by cluck View Post
Zoe Lafleur: 12-year-old magician. This young lady had such a strong, confident stage presence (which I've never had, at any age), so kudos to her. The act looked very clean and transparent to me and stumped me completely. In addition to mentioning gambling techniques (?), the code word seemed to be "crimper," but I have no idea what that means. P&T can be a bunch of heartless bastards sometimes, but it would be cool if she comes back to perform in the future.
I'm not sure that this is the solution....

SPOILER:
I think that the crimping is referring to bending or scratching the card that Penn chooses in some way so that it stands out, visually.

For gambling techniques, I think that there are two:

1) Card counting. She's keeping track of how deep the card is, roughly, after Penn inserts it back into the deck and uses that count to move it to roughly where it needs to be for the finale.
2) Double-dealing. When counting to ten, she pulls off more than 1 card at a time, to dig down and get to the target - which she can see, from the crimp.
  #125  
Old 07-31-2019, 02:21 AM
psychonaut is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,986
Quote:
Originally Posted by cluck View Post
Josh Farley: Crossword puzzle contortionism. I must be feeling very gullible today because all these tricks baffled me. I have no idea where the lady went, how the kid (short panda) got in the box and stuck his hand out the top, or how the lady wound up at the table at the end (replacing the taller panda, who I guess ducked under the table). Penn referred to the dollhouse illusion, which seemingly has the person sitting in back of the box with legs tucked inside the table, which seems like an impossibly tight fit.
AIUI, pretty much all tricks involving stuffing poles, swords, etc. through a box containing a person are done using a box with a larger interior than apparent to the audience, plus a slender and limber "assistant" (who really does most of the difficult work) moving around inside. If that's the case here (and I don't see why it wouldn't be, though I agree the box is constructed so well that it seems impossible), then the panda switch might be easy to explain: at the start of the trick, the panda DJ is a female assistant who looks and dresses like the one who gets into the box, except that she's wearing a pull-away panda costume overtop. And also at the start of the trick, there is a panda costume hidden in the box. So when the female assistant gets into the box, besides getting out of the way of the sliding blocks, she also dons the panda costume, ready for the big reveal. Also at the big reveal, the panda DJ momentarily ducks down behind the table and rips off her panda costume.
  #126  
Old 07-31-2019, 11:12 AM
TriPolar is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 40,727
The Tarot deck trick is very simple with two cards initially on the top and bottom of the otherwise blank deck. Not sure of the exact moves used to get the third card in position.

The sponge balls didn't seem all that special. I guess the guys couldn't see his moves so considered that an FU. He did start out using the conventional techniques, but then veered off into new territory.

The little girls card trick was based on cards the would separate into packets if handled right. I believe Penn was talking about a little bit of curl in the cards that separated the packets. You can see her shuffle is just shifting packets around and she's counting the missing cards in the packets to see what's been moved and removed. At the end she's shifting cards around to get the count right. Very impressive.

The crossword puzzle was cute, but underneath just the same as all the other similar (but less creative) box tricks.

Last edited by TriPolar; 07-31-2019 at 11:13 AM.
  #127  
Old 07-31-2019, 10:14 PM
zombywoof is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,272
Zoe Lafleur: It seems to me there's a moment where she's putting the cards back on top of Penn's card where she briefly hesitates to count the cards she is manipulating, and is caught - Penn & Teller look at each other, and Penn smiles...still a more entertaining and impressive trick than many acts on the show, just unbelievable coming from a 12-year old kid.
  #128  
Old 08-01-2019, 09:57 AM
TriPolar is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 40,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
Zoe Lafleur: It seems to me there's a moment where she's putting the cards back on top of Penn's card where she briefly hesitates to count the cards she is manipulating, and is caught - Penn & Teller look at each other, and Penn smiles...still a more entertaining and impressive trick than many acts on the show, just unbelievable coming from a 12-year old kid.
She was impressive for a 12 year old. She seemed a little nervous, not even sure she had the right card, but that was some difficult stuff she was doing, card sharp type manipulation that usually takes more years than she's been alive to master. They better watch out if she does come back.
  #129  
Old 08-01-2019, 05:56 PM
johnnycab is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
The Tarot deck trick is very simple with two cards initially on the top and bottom of the otherwise blank deck. Not sure of the exact moves used to get the third card in position.

The sponge balls didn't seem all that special. I guess the guys couldn't see his moves so considered that an FU. He did start out using the conventional techniques, but then veered off into new territory.

The little girls card trick was based on cards the would separate into packets if handled right. I believe Penn was talking about a little bit of curl in the cards that separated the packets. You can see her shuffle is just shifting packets around and she's counting the missing cards in the packets to see what's been moved and removed. At the end she's shifting cards around to get the count right. Very impressive.

The crossword puzzle was cute, but underneath just the same as all the other similar (but less creative) box tricks.
Hans Petter Secker:

Part of the trick was cut out so this description needs a little background first. He is only shown dealing 4 cards to Alyson, but if you look closely, he's actually dealt 5 cards.
So this description is based on that detail.

The first card of the deck is the Magician (Teller card)
The sixth card in the deck is the Star (Penn card)
The bottom card in the deck is the Emperor (Alyson card)

When he starts with Alyson, he never gives her a choice. He just deals 5 cards then places her picture on top of the cards, underneath the original bottom card (Alyson's).

The original sixth card (Penn's) is now on top of the deck and the original top card (Teller's) is on the bottom. The rest of the trick falls into place no matter where they tell him to stop.
  #130  
Old 08-05-2019, 11:40 PM
TheHYPO is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lare View Post
Except that Teller was standing next to her, handing her the pens and could have been quietly (for want of a better term) "leading" her with subtle suggestions like "Don't forget his shirt?"

As to the shspe of his head, if you're looking straight on at someone through a glass pane and I tell you to draw/trace their features, the shape of their head on the drawing is a pretty forgone conclusion.

This is a variation of what mentalists often do where they have someone draw something that (mostly) matches a prepared drawing.

But I don't know and was offering a potential solution with the qualifier that I was going by memory with no way to check, so...
I will put this to bed by saying that someone on reddit already did an overlay and they aren't "kind of the same". They are basically identical other than the replica was a bit thicker in line weight meaning some gaps in the original were filled in on the replica.

Penn and Teller are the big leagues, and know they are going to end up doing this on TV. They are not going to do a trick that relies on an audience member to follow that kind of cue with that kind of precision. It is absurd to me that you would think they would do a trick with that kind of failure point - all it takes is a notably different choice in face shape and the trick is in the garbage. This is NOT the method. Period. The end.
  #131  
Old 08-06-2019, 03:38 PM
TriPolar is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 40,727
Marcus Eddie fooled them last night with a clever move. I believe he was holding the deck outside the box, hidden by the open lid when seen head on. Looked very much that way when I saw and I expected the deck to appear in the box, P&T probably didn't get quite as good a look. My guess is the deck is in an inner box that fits into the outer box that is shown. That outer box is open on the back side. One side of the inner box is white on the outside, when it is held outside the box behind the lid it forms the missing side of the outer box. He just has to push the inner box into the outer box and it looks like a full box of cards.

Kevin Li fooled them but his trick was not impressive. Obviously Alyson is reading the phrases someplace. The cards looked pretty ordinary, he wasn't palming cards as Penn guessed, he said there was nothing up his sleeve, so maybe the phrases could be seen on displayed on his clothing somehow, or maybe it is even revealed in the drink. Anyway, it doesn't seem like a good presentation to me, nothing distracts from the basic method of hidden text that the subject reads.

Last edited by TriPolar; 08-06-2019 at 03:39 PM.
  #132  
Old 08-06-2019, 07:18 PM
zombywoof is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
Kevin Li fooled them but his trick was not impressive. Obviously Alyson is reading the phrases someplace. The cards looked pretty ordinary, he wasn't palming cards as Penn guessed, he said there was nothing up his sleeve, so maybe the phrases could be seen on displayed on his clothing somehow, or maybe it is even revealed in the drink.
The way in which he holds the cards seems a bit unnatural - my first guess was also that the trick was "optical", reflecting the back somewhere where Alyson could see it etc.

I also wondered about the drink - why add it to the routine if it serves no purpose at all? - but then again, in the context of the show people do stuff like that just to try and throw P&T off track.
  #133  
Old 08-06-2019, 08:04 PM
zombywoof is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,272
S6E8 Blake & Jana: Penn implied a "conveyor" that "elevated" Alyson's phone into position - I think you can see him placing her phone behind one of the uprights of the contraption right as Alyson starts to put the 4 envelopes down - he sure would have looked less suspicious if he hadn't been standing there for a good while WITH HIS FRIGGING HANDS BEHIND HIS BACK, lol...

Last edited by zombywoof; 08-06-2019 at 08:05 PM.
  #134  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:11 PM
cluck is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 108
Season 6, Episode 8 (August 5, 2019)

Another fooler rematch episode. You guys pretty much covered everything relevant already.

Marcus Eddie: Vanishing card deck (fooler).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
I believe he was holding the deck outside the box, hidden by the open lid when seen head on. Looked very much that way when I saw and I expected the deck to appear in the box, P&T probably didn't get quite as good a look. My guess is the deck is in an inner box that fits into the outer box that is shown. That outer box is open on the back side. One side of the inner box is white on the outside, when it is held outside the box behind the lid it forms the missing side of the outer box. He just has to push the inner box into the outer box and it looks like a full box of cards.
I watched it again with this in mind, and he definitely holds the box at the beginning in a way that conceals something by the open lid. Even so, it's still impressive how smooth and flawlessly he pulls it off. The same thing at the end of the trick when he crumples the box; it seems like a shot was cut out of there, because we never saw Alyson hand the deck back to him, but there must have been some sort of careful maneuvering there which I never caught.

Kevin Li: Chinese dictionary (fooler).

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
The way in which he holds the cards seems a bit unnatural - my first guess was also that the trick was "optical", reflecting the back somewhere where Alyson could see it etc.
That's my only guess as well, given that Penn threw out Teller's original answer (I like that he didn't bother talking in code this time). I also wonder whether the boba drink had anything to do with it, or if anything was being communicated through the metal "reusable" straw (which Alyson mentioned the hole was too small). I agree with TriPolar that the trick generally seems less impressive when you know the participant is in on it in some way.

Blake & Jana: Safe phone. I liked the presentation of this trick. Poor Alyson had to be the guinea pig all episode. "Elevates" and "conveyor" seem to be the words Penn leaned into the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
I think you can see him placing her phone behind one of the uprights of the contraption right as Alyson starts to put the 4 envelopes down - he sure would have looked less suspicious if he hadn't been standing there for a good while WITH HIS FRIGGING HANDS BEHIND HIS BACK, lol...
I totally missed this the first time around. Yeah, you can definitely see him leaning against the side and put his arm out as she's placing the envelopes. Very suspicious whenever you can't see the magician's hands.

Robert Ramirez: Calculator tricks. Removing the numbers from my phone is the first "trick" I could actually reproduce. I had no idea you could do that. P&T seemed largely unimpressed but I was able to glean enough from his hints that it was all done in-phone.

Funny to see Adam Conover on this show as Adam Ruins Everything basically lifted its schtick from Penn & Teller: Bullshit!

Last edited by cluck; 08-06-2019 at 11:13 PM.
  #135  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:38 PM
zombywoof is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,272
The smartphone calculator trick REALLY didn't do anything for me - there's just not a lot of impact to a trick that takes place entirely on a computer screen, which can be controlled in so many ways (manipulating the "in phone" apps, but also with a timed recording, or custom software (perhaps with a helper communicating with the phone), or a combination of the above - in the end, who cares?)
  #136  
Old 08-07-2019, 12:43 PM
Ashtura is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
The smartphone calculator trick REALLY didn't do anything for me - there's just not a lot of impact to a trick that takes place entirely on a computer screen, which can be controlled in so many ways (manipulating the "in phone" apps, but also with a timed recording, or custom software (perhaps with a helper communicating with the phone), or a combination of the above - in the end, who cares?)
Agreed. While I suspect many modern tricks (especially mentalism) have electronics as key components, any trick that BLATANTLY uses electronics automatically goes in the garbage pile for me. You can make an app do anything. Even if I didn't know how the calculator trick was done exactly, I'd just say "custom app responds to custom gestures. The end."
  #137  
Old 08-07-2019, 03:39 PM
friedo's Avatar
friedo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 24,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
The way in which he holds the cards seems a bit unnatural - my first guess was also that the trick was "optical", reflecting the back somewhere where Alyson could see it etc.
I was certain that trick involved simple lenticular cards; Alyson could see the translation but the audience couldn't because of the angles. And I think there have been busts on the show before involving such cards. I was surprised that P&T (well, P) dismissed the optical theory of the trick.
  #138  
Old 08-12-2019, 11:21 AM
Michael1973 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 2
Regarding the Chinese word trick, it couldn't have been more obvious to me that Alyson was in on it. If I've learned anything by watching this show, it's that Alyson does not have a poker face. Any time she assists with a trick, you'll see her eyes bug out, her jaw drop, or hear some form of "That was AMAZING!" But here, every time her "randomly guessed" word or phrase appeared on the card, she looked utterly bored by it. I was very surprised this one fooled them.
  #139  
Old 08-20-2019, 03:08 AM
cluck is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 108
Season 6, Episode 9 (August 19, 2019)

Anca & Lucca: Mind-reading duo. So the conceit of this was to whisper to Teller how the trick is done, do the trick, then see if it fooled them? Unfortunately, no codes were dropped this time, only an understanding that P&T have performed these types of tricks in the past. The whole thing felt very anti-climactic.

Tom Stone: Chest of drawers. Again, P&T dispensed with the secret codewords and elected to determine this using the offstage judges. Am I correct in assuming that the box he held had hidden compartments with both cards and book (which matched the same torn edges Alyson and assistant were holding, which must have been forces)?

Jon & Owen: "The Penn & Teller of juggling." This was a very showy act with a present element of danger (aren't they usually warded off from doing this?) which I found fun and exciting. Based on what Penn was suggesting, was there a second mousetrap device with the card preloaded?

Horret Wu: Color-changing cards. The first thing I thought about was photographic development. Is it possible the light did all the "magic" using scientific principles? A cool routine nonetheless.

Teller: Cups and meatballs. Very entertaining twist on a classic, especially when a dog is involved.

No foolers this week, you can always tell when P&T are kinda bored and it rubs off on the viewers.
  #140  
Old 08-20-2019, 12:04 PM
Fiddle Peghead's Avatar
Fiddle Peghead is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Harlem, New York, NY
Posts: 4,416
Two things, not particularly related to the show: I understand that magicians don't want to give away their secrets, but to me, that should be the payoff. Since it doesn't happen, I find it hard to get involved. Also, years ago in the late 1980s, I read an article about how among other things, when he wasn't performing Teller always wore a watch and would carry a ballpoint pen around, stuck between the watchband and his forearm. My brother and I were waiting to see a movie in the lobby of the long gone Biograph theater in Georgetown, Washington D.C. and we saw Teller. Yep, he had the watch with with the pen, just as described. I always wondered, was this so he could say that pen and Teller were inseparable?

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 08-20-2019 at 12:05 PM.
  #141  
Old 08-20-2019, 09:15 PM
TriPolar is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 40,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by cluck View Post
[B]
Horret Wu: Color-changing cards. The first thing I thought about was photographic development. Is it possible the light did all the "magic" using scientific principles? A cool routine nonetheless.
The cards aren't white on both sides, one side is already colored. The color looks paler under the colored light (just an illusion I believe) so it looks about the same as a white card palely colored bythe colored light. So he's flipping a card over to the colored side once it's under the colored light, the pale color makes it look a white card slightly colored by the light, and when he slides it out from under the light the full deep color is revealed. It's skilled card manipulation aided by the colored light.
  #142  
Old 08-20-2019, 09:30 PM
cluck is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
The cards aren't white on both sides, one side is already colored. The color looks paler under the colored light (just an illusion I believe) so it looks about the same as a white card palely colored bythe colored light. So he's flipping a card over to the colored side once it's under the colored light, the pale color makes it look a white card slightly colored by the light, and when he slides it out from under the light the full deep color is revealed. It's skilled card manipulation aided by the colored light.
That makes a lot more sense, but what about the transparent ones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead View Post
I read an article about how among other things, when he wasn't performing Teller always wore a watch and would carry a ballpoint pen around, stuck between the watchband and his forearm. My brother and I were waiting to see a movie in the lobby of the long gone Biograph theater in Georgetown, Washington D.C. and we saw Teller. Yep, he had the watch with with the pen, just as described. I always wondered, was this so he could say that pen and Teller were inseparable?
Heh, if that's true, that's pretty clever.

Last edited by cluck; 08-20-2019 at 09:32 PM.
  #143  
Old 08-20-2019, 10:00 PM
Mahaloth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: 地球
Posts: 29,833
Quote:
Originally Posted by cluck View Post

Jon & Owen: "The Penn & Teller of juggling." This was a very showy act with a present element of danger (aren't they usually warded off from doing this?) which I found fun and exciting. Based on what Penn was suggesting, was there a second mousetrap device with the card preloaded?
My wife and I rolled the trick back and watched it frame by frame. It has no card in it when he jumps over his back. Has no card in it when he lands and starts juggling it. I thought we'd see him swap out the mouse traps, but we didn't. He lowered it down as part of his normal juggling motion and it came up at one point with the card in it.

:shrugs:
  #144  
Old 08-21-2019, 05:43 AM
TriPolar is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 40,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by cluck View Post
That makes a lot more sense, but what about the transparent ones?
Common trick, just sleight of hand, tossing out the transparent cards while the other deck goes 'up his sleeve' so to speak. I recall Shin Lim doing this same thing in one of his appearances here or on AGT. P&T were quite impressed that he did all this with gloves on and with tweezers, but as they said, it's traditional card manipulation.
  #145  
Old 08-21-2019, 02:32 PM
TriPolar is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 40,727
Just got to watch the color changing cards in slo-mo. He's not flipping the cards over under the light, he's just dealing from the bottom of the deck (might not be the bottom, but it's not the top card). He's really good at that move.
  #146  
Old 08-22-2019, 02:49 AM
psychonaut is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,986
Quote:
Originally Posted by cluck View Post
Tom Stone: Chest of drawers. Again, P&T dispensed with the secret codewords and elected to determine this using the offstage judges. Am I correct in assuming that the box he held had hidden compartments with both cards and book (which matched the same torn edges Alyson and assistant were holding, which must have been forces)?
At the beginning of the trick, the three boxes are in a pile. The topmost box (Box 1) has a red diamond on the top side. The middle box (Box 2) has a green diamond on the top side. The bottom box (Box 3) has a red diamond on the top side. Box 1 is a completely ordinary box and is empty. Box 2 and Box 3 are gimmicked in such a way that they can be opened to either of two compartments. Box 2 contains in one compartment a deck of cards and a five of clubs with one of the corners ripped off; the second compartment is empty. Box 3 contains a deck of cards and a five of clubs in one compartment, and in the other compartment a book containing a pre-ripped page wedged between two other pages.

Stone removes Box 1 from the pile and designates it as "my box". He demonstrates that it is empty, and it is indeed empty. He puts it back on top of the pile, upside-down on top of Box 2, and then picks up the entire pile.

He then pretends to put "my box" back on the table, but he actually puts the bottom box (Box 3) on the table. The audience doesn't notice this because Box 3 also has a red diamond.

He then picks up Box 1 from the top of the pile, which now has a blue diamond. There are a few different methods he could have used to change the colour from red to blue. The simplest explanation is that the red diamond is a card loosely attached to the box and covering a blue diamond. When he turns his back to replace Box 1 on the pile, he removes the red diamond with his fingers and hides it on the table or on his person. Alternatively, it could be that the red diamond is a magnetic strip (green on the other side) that jumps between Box 1 and Box 2 when they are pressed together, or that the red diamond is made of some material that changes from red to blue when heated or cooled by contact with Box 2. However, I think sleight of hand is the most likely explanation, since you can see that the red diamond is not flush with the surface of the box, and before he turns his back he is careful to place his fingers over it.

He shows the blue box (still Box 1) to the volunteers and demonstrates that it is empty, which of course it still is. He then gives Box 1 to Alyson.

Box 2 has a green diamond. Stone opens it to the empty compartment but crucially, he does not completely remove the drawer as proof that the box is empty, because it is not. He takes a deck of cards and demonstrates that some of them near one end of the deck are unique. He then has Adrian select a card from the other end of the deck, which are all fives of clubs and gimmicked such that the corners tear off in exactly the same way. The card and deck are placed in the empty compartment of Box 2, which Adrian holds behind his back.

Alyson selects a page from a book from which (unbeknownst to her) one of the pages has already been ripped. The page number is forced by Stone. Again, there are a few ways this could have been done. For example, he could have stopped riffling at a page that has a duplicate page number as the pre-ripped page, or he could have palmed a scrap of paper with a page number (the same as that of the pre-ripped page) that he holds in front of the page he shows Alyson. The book is then placed into Box 1 and returned to Alyson.

Stone takes Box 3 ("my box") from the table and opens it, revealing the deck of cards and the five of clubs. He rips the corner of the five of clubs and puts the card back in the box, retaining the corner. He then opens Box 3 again, this time to the compartment containing the book. He flips to the prearranged page number and pretends to rip a page out of the book; in reality he is simply dislodging the pre-ripped page. He retains the page and replaces the book in Box 3. He then opens the box a final time and shows that it is (apparently) empty. Since he does not completely remove the drawer, I assume he activated a hinge at its rear that allowed the contents to slide back into the box, behind the drawer.

Stone takes Box 2 from Adrian and opens it to the compartment containing the deck of cards and the pre-ripped five of clubs. He takes the corner he had ripped from the card in Box 3 and demonstrates that it matches the card from Box 2. Stone takes Box 1 from Alyson and has her turn to page 260, which was pre-ripped. He takes the pre-ripped page he removed from Box 3 and demonstrates that it matches the book from Box 1.

All in all, a very impressive trick -- the only anomaly I noticed on first viewing was that he places the red box on the top of the pile but removed it from the bottom of the pile a few seconds later. The rest of the trick took a couple more viewings to figure out. The only thing I'm not completely sure of is how the trick boxes work mechanically (i.e., how he controls which contents are shown when he opens the drawers), but I assume that these are fairly standard magic props.
  #147  
Old 08-22-2019, 03:26 AM
cluck is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 108
Holy shit, that's a very thorough analysis. Thanks for that!
  #148  
Old 08-22-2019, 03:39 AM
psychonaut is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,986
Quote:
Originally Posted by cluck View Post
Holy shit, that's a very thorough analysis. Thanks for that!
Thanks, but on rereading it just now I've just spotted a small error:

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychonaut View Post
He then has Adrian select a card from the other end of the deck, which are all fives of clubs and gimmicked such that the corners tear off in exactly the same way.
Ignore the part in this sentence about the cards being gimmicked. The particular card Adrian selects from the deck doesn't get torn, so there's no need for it to be gimmicked. The only card that gets torn is from Box 3, so that's the only one that needs to be gimmicked.
  #149  
Old 08-25-2019, 12:07 PM
Crossbreed is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Northern Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
Kevin Li fooled them but his trick was not impressive. Obviously Alyson is reading the phrases someplace. The cards looked pretty ordinary, he wasn't palming cards as Penn guessed, he said there was nothing up his sleeve, so maybe the phrases could be seen on displayed on his clothing somehow, or maybe it is even revealed in the drink. Anyway, it doesn't seem like a good presentation to me, nothing distracts from the basic method of hidden text that the subject reads.
Two words, "bone phone." They just busted the white-masked "puppet master" for the same gimmick...
  #150  
Old 08-25-2019, 12:40 PM
Crossbreed is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Northern Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossbreed View Post
They just busted the white-masked "puppet master" for the same gimmick...
Raffaele Scircoli, Ep 4

The guy from the audience had his eyes covered. He was following instructions, but not a pre-arranged stooge.
__________________
Crossbreed ☝

Last edited by Crossbreed; 08-25-2019 at 12:42 PM. Reason: more info
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:59 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017