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  #251  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:38 AM
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Fine, but XT, those huge pieces were ejected out, they didn't just fall out like you are trying to say. FPS backs this up as well.
  #252  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by split p&j View Post
So you guys are saying the sticks attached to the tube wouldn't pull the tube down as well
Can you put this in terms that a simple caveman like myself would understand? I can't follow your esoteric civil engineering jargon that you are using here.
  #253  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:39 AM
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Did you read what I quoted? That's you guys saying that.
Patently untrue.
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  #254  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:45 AM
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LAZombie, on the first page of this thread, you complained that posters were being sarcastic and mocking those who were Just Asking Questions. You said you wanted an honest debate.

THIS IS WHY Truthers are mocked and these threads start with tons of sarcasm. It always devolves into "the buildings wouldn't have fallen that way" or "the jet fuel wouldn't have burned like that" or "the fireproofing would have protected the building". It is stupid minutia not based in any factual evidence.

You said you were open minded. You're not. You will never accept the rational answers given to your questions. This is why mocking and sarcasm accompanies Truther posts. The SDMB has done this before with the exact same results and and we'll do it again next year with the exact same results.
Why. We know how things behave, it's not a mystery now. We can now examine the video's and see some thing is wrong with the official story.
  #255  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:45 AM
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So if it was a tube that the floors just slid down the tube should have been standing right?
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A few post above says it was just a tube with sticks
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So you guys are saying the sticks attached to the tube wouldn't pull the tube down as well

You don't even understand the basics of how these building were constructed, and yet, you think you know "the science" of why they couldn't collapse the way they did. This is why truthers are laughed at.



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or the upper floors wouldn't slow down as they crashed into the lower floors

And here you just ignore reality. As was posted earlier:


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By saying it didn't, and that this claim has been debunked. 9/11 Truthers CLAIMED this, but as with everything else, their claim is false. Getting them to admit it, however, has gone as well as getting them to admit the other myriad errors or intentional deceptions they have perpetrated.

Don't believe me? It's really, really easy to prove this one. Watch one of the towers fall. See the debris that is falling away from the tower going down? The large pieces falling around the tower but not in the central area? Notice anything strange? You would if you watched it. You would notice that those pieces are falling faster than the main collapse. Know why? Because those pieces ARE in free fall. And they are not falling at the same speed as the tower is collapsing. This is so easy to debunk, yet you guys are STILL using it despite that. And this is just one of myriad deceptions and lies that the Truthers tell.

...they did slow down. they just didn't slow down enough to actually stop the collapse. "Freefall" is a completely bullshit claim by people who can't even seen what obvious right in the videos and photos of the collapses.

Last edited by Horatius; 09-18-2019 at 10:46 AM.
  #256  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:48 AM
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In fact, we all the top basically stop as soon as it hit the lower floors. That's on video. How do you explain that slowed momentum? How do you explain that thing becoming a pile driver after that?
Once the collapse started, on multiple floors, the weight was such that it essentially pulverized each succeeding floor. But the floors weren't sufficient to fully destroy the falling upper structure until it hit the ground. Pretty standard actually, you can see examples of this in myriad building collapse videos. And pretty much a red herring, as this has nothing to do with the mechanism for what initiated the collapse. I assume that's actually what you are getting at, and that all this other horseshit really has nothing to do with anything, as it doesn't change that initial cause.

So, here is my guess as to what you are getting at. The building collapsed in 'free fall' because it was wired for explosives. We shall leave aside the lack of evidence for this. And that the explosives were detonated after the planes hit. And the explosives were perfectly places so that they collapsed the floors right where the planes hit, which is where we see the collapse initiating.

So, let's go with that. You haven't walked us through any of this, just vague horseshit and JAQing off, but that's what you are getting at. Now, let's say that's the case. How does this change anything wrt to the collapse you are nitpicking? It doesn't, unless you assume that EVERY floor was wired to blow all the way down. Because, regardless, the building isn't going to be in 'free fall' unless every floor is taken out all the way down. So, leaving aside, again, the lack of evidence it would take to wire every floor, or the fact that NO ONE does that when ACTUALLY taking a building down, or the lack of video evidence for this happening (we can see the upper floors and structures pulverizing the lower ones on the way down), we still have some questions. Why does debris coming off the building and spraying out around it fall faster than the collapsing structure? They SHOULD fall at the same speed. I mean, you blow out a floor, and debris from the floor is blown out horizontally. Yet gravity is still the major force acting on it. They SHOULD fall at, you know, the same basic speed. Maybe a touch different. But not 5-10 seconds different. Which is the reality of what we see on the actual video. Just answer this one, simple question if you would. We dont' need to talk about how impossible it would be to wire a building this way, or how it would be difficult in the extreme to get the timing right or how you got those explosives where the planes hit to still work AND be the ones you initiate first. Just answer the question of why, if they blew out all the floors, causing the structure to 'free fall' (leave aside that it didn't), the debris coming off the the building STILL fell faster. Was it rockets? Some sort of alien dark matter extra gravity thingy?
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  #257  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:48 AM
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Fine, but XT, those huge pieces were ejected out, they didn't just fall out like you are trying to say. FPS backs this up as well.
What the hell are you even saying? Ejected by what forces, independent of those in your fantastic imagination?

External structure pieces were shed from the collapsing structure and fell independently, faster than the main structure that pancaked as it fell, meeting some internal structural resistance, thus falling at a slower rate than external falling debris.
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Last edited by QuickSilver; 09-18-2019 at 10:49 AM.
  #258  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:49 AM
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...they did slow down. they just didn't slow down enough to actually stop the collapse. "Freefall" is a completely bullshit claim by people who can't even seen what obvious right in the videos and photos of the collapses.
Of course they did. That's the point I was making.
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  #259  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:51 AM
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Fine, but XT, those huge pieces were ejected out,
Ejected? By what means? I'm sure you are implying explosives. Here's a hint: Explosives aren't very good for pushing things like that.

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they didn't just fall out like you are trying to say.
No. They were individual pieces of the tower that, probably somewhat ahead of the chaotic mass of building material, struck some part of the building that hadn't lost structural integrity yet. the angular momentum was thus changed to impart some horizontal momentum to those smaller pieces (small being relative to the huge mass of building coming down). This allowed said pieces to continue unhindered by anything but the air underneath it. In a few cases the horizontal momentum was enough to make it a decent distance from the tower. Not unexpected.

I now expect this explanation to be either ignored or nitpicked with the usual "What about *wah!*" followed by "what about *wahwah*!" with no actual scientific support for said nitpicking.


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FPS backs this up as well.
Who?
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  #260  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:52 AM
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Fine, but XT, those huge pieces were ejected out, they didn't just fall out like you are trying to say. FPS backs this up as well.
Ever seen the basic physics experiment where someone shoots a gun and drops a bullet at the same time? Know what the result of this experiment is? Basically, they hit the ground at the same time. Know why? I'll leave that part to you to work out.

The fact that this basic understanding seems to be something you don't get SHOULD clue you in to the fact that you don't get even the basics. And it SHOULD be something you consider the next time you watch or listen to a Truther expound on this subject.
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  #261  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:52 AM
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Can you put this in terms that a simple caveman like myself would understand? I can't follow your esoteric civil engineering jargon that you are using here.
I'll try. Your saying that a building with floors attached to its core, with the core attached to the ground would collapse to the ground at near free fall speed?

Is that correct?
  #262  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:54 AM
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I'll try. Your saying that a building with floors attached to its core, with the core attached to the ground would collapse to the ground at near free fall speed?

Is that correct?
You've managed to be even more confusing. Congrats!
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  #263  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:56 AM
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STOP IT, you guys. Just STOP IT!

split p&j obviously knows something we don't.

Let's hear him out. Go on then, split p&j. Share your wisdom and insight with the rest of us. What really happened?
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  #264  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:57 AM
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I'll try. Your saying that a building with floors attached to its core, with the core attached to the ground would collapse to the ground at near free fall speed?

Is that correct?
I read what he said, and he didn't say that. Why don't you ask questions about what people actually say instead of putting words in their mouths?
  #265  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:57 AM
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Of course they did. That's the point I was making.

Yes, I know, I was trying to emphasize that fact, since he seemed to blow right by it. Of course the attempt was fruitless.
  #266  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:58 AM
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Yes, I know, I was trying to emphasize that fact, since he seemed to blow right by it. Of course the attempt was fruitless.
Ah, sorry...my bad.
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  #267  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:00 AM
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Ejected? By what means? I'm sure you are implying explosives. Here's a hint: Explosives aren't very good for pushing things like that.



No. They were individual pieces of the tower that, probably somewhat ahead of the chaotic mass of building material, struck some part of the building that hadn't lost structural integrity yet. the angular momentum was thus changed to impart some horizontal momentum to those smaller pieces (small being relative to the huge mass of building coming down). This allowed said pieces to continue unhindered by anything but the air underneath it. In a few cases the horizontal momentum was enough to make it a decent distance from the tower. Not unexpected.

I now expect this explanation to be either ignored or nitpicked with the usual "What about *wah!*" followed by "what about *wahwah*!" with no actual scientific support for said nitpicking.




Who?
Frames Per Second. This kind of thing is easily measured by anybody now. It wasn't like that in '01. You can calculate velocity from that as I'm sure you know.

From that we know those members were moving far beyond the veloicity that could be achieved by gravity alone.

In fact they were explosively thrown.

Last edited by split p&j; 09-18-2019 at 11:01 AM.
  #268  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:00 AM
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Why. We know how things behave, it's not a mystery now. We can now examine the video's and see some thing is wrong with the official story.
No, you don't. You think you know how things behave and you will refuse to believe any evidence that conflicts with your beliefs.

What other explanation is there besides the official one? Buildings fell down after being hit by planes. That's it.

A controlled demolition? No one can look at the collapse of the South Tower and say it was a controlled demolition. It's impossible. 9/11, World Trade Center South Tower Falls - 52 Clips (YouTube)

So if it's not the official story and not a controlled demolition, what is it? Aliens? A space laser? Magic?
  #269  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:01 AM
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I'll try. Your saying that a building with floors attached to its core, with the core attached to the ground would collapse to the ground at near free fall speed?

Is that correct?
You quoted him. Right there. He didn't say anything about this. He ASKED YOU to explain, in simply 'caveman' terms. Instead, you tossed this back at him while continuing to make the false claim about 'near free fall speed'.

So, I'm going to go with no...that is not correct. And, yeah...we totally see what you are doing. And, no...sadly, it's not working for you. Not even a little bit.
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  #270  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:05 AM
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STOP IT, you guys. Just STOP IT!

split p&j obviously knows something we don't.

Let's hear him out. Go on then, split p&j. Share your wisdom and insight with the rest of us. What really happened?
I don't know what happened. I know your trying to trap me. All I know for sure is that the official story is not true, its an easily proven lie that people choose to believe for comfort.
  #271  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:07 AM
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Frames Per Second. This kind of thing is easily measured by anybody now. It wasn't like that in '01. You can calculate velocity from that as I'm sure you know.

From that we know those members were moving far beyond the veloicity that could be achieved by gravity alone.

In fact they were explosively thrown.
If you go by that, then how do you explain the ejected debris falling faster than the building is collapsing, if it's collapsing at 'free fall speeds'? That would mean said debris would be under acceleration.

BTW, you don't have to use FPS. They actually have seismic data that shows the planes hitting, the start of the collapse and when the final large bit hit. Of course, you wouldn't know about or trust that, so you are using FPS and then not thinking about how this actually would bring up a ton of additional questions, if your (or more likely some Truthers) interpretation of that FPS video is correct.
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  #272  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:08 AM
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Debris falling faster than the rest of the tower, and in the vertical rather than the horizontal.
  #273  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:09 AM
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I'll try. Your saying that a building with floors attached to its core, with the core attached to the ground would collapse to the ground at near free fall speed?

Is that correct?
If I'm parsing that correctly, then that's not only not what anyone is saying, it's actually the opposite of what people are saying.

Let's be clear here: THE BUILDING DID NOT FALL AT FREEFALL OR "NEAR-FREEFALL" (whatever that means) SPEED.

And we're not trying to "trap" you. We're pointing out that the thing you "know for sure" isn't true, isn't supported by science, and relies on false data. You say the official story is an "easily proven lie" but you haven't even come close to proving anything of the sort, and you keep repeating statements about the events of the day that are themselves easily debunked.
  #274  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:11 AM
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I don't know what happened. I know your trying to trap me. All I know for sure is that the official story is not true, its an easily proven lie that people choose to believe for comfort.
Are any of the stories being put out by "Truthers" untrue? Are there any conspiracy theories being put out there that you would like to debunk?
Or does this work like psychic fairs, where you may believe that the man in the booth next to you is full of shit, but the lot of you agree not to attack each other out of loyalty?
  #275  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:11 AM
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Frames Per Second. This kind of thing is easily measured by anybody now. It wasn't like that in '01. You can calculate velocity from that as I'm sure you know.

From that we know those members were moving far beyond the veloicity that could be achieved by gravity alone.
Show your work. Who is this "we" to whom you refer?

Show your work.

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In fact they were explosively thrown.
Explosives that would "throw" would be a stunningly poor use of explosives for building demolition. Explosives best "throw" things when confined in direction (i.e. a cannon barrel). If your explosives are tossing I-Beams your are doing something remarkably wrong with your demolition project. If you are using enough explosives to toss I-beams out & downward faster than gravity I think someone would hear them even in that unpopulated, desolate wasteland of Lower Manhattan.

Explosives in demolition projects are used to cut, not throw.
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  #276  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:16 AM
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Show your work. Who is this "we" to whom you refer?

Show your work.



Explosives that would "throw" would be a stunningly poor use of explosives for building demolition. Explosives best "throw" things when confined in direction (i.e. a cannon barrel). If your explosives are tossing I-Beams your are doing something remarkably wrong with your demolition project. If you are using enough explosives to toss I-beams out & downward faster than gravity I think someone would hear them even in that unpopulated, desolate wasteland of Lower Manhattan.

Explosives in demolition projects are used to cut, not throw.
Yup. But even IF we assume explosives threw out large chunks of the building (large pieces of concrete and structural supports), even if they initially threw them downward (somehow), they aren't going to continue to fall faster than the supposedly free falling structure because they aren't under any sort of external acceleration at that point...just the same old gravity we all have to deal with (it's the law!). Yet, they ARE falling faster than the collapsing core. Which means one of two things. Either they are under acceleration (other than gravity) or...the whole building is collapsing at free fall or 'near' free fall is horseshit.

Now, using my handy dandy Occam's Razor...
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  #277  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:17 AM
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No, you don't. You think you know how things behave and you will refuse to believe any evidence that conflicts with your beliefs.

What other explanation is there besides the official one? Buildings fell down after being hit by planes. That's it.

A controlled demolition? No one can look at the collapse of the South Tower and say it was a controlled demolition. It's impossible. 9/11, World Trade Center South Tower Falls - 52 Clips (YouTube)

So if it's not the official story and not a controlled demolition, what is it? Aliens? A space laser? Magic?
I don't know what to say to this. Of course it wasn't controlled in an old building way. that was kind of the point, shock and awe.

I don't want to be an ass, but wake up. We are about to go to war Iran, for no real reason. Millions died in the wars after this 911 BS.

Do you really believe they give a shit about 3000, 5000, 10,000 life's? Just because they are in the US.?
  #278  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:18 AM
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I don't know what happened. I know your trying to trap me. All I know for sure is that the official story is not true, its an easily proven lie that people choose to believe for comfort.
"People choose to believe for comfort" - please elaborate. 9/11 was in no way comforting. What truth are we hiding from?
  #279  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:20 AM
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Yup. But even IF we assume explosives threw out large chunks of the building (large pieces of concrete and structural supports), even if they initially threw them downward (somehow), they aren't going to continue to fall faster than the supposedly free falling structure because they aren't under any sort of external acceleration at that point...just the same old gravity we all have to deal with (it's the law!). Yet, they ARE falling faster than the collapsing core. Which means one of two things. Either they are under acceleration (other than gravity) or...the whole building is collapsing at free fall or 'near' free fall is horseshit.

Now, using my handy dandy Occam's Razor...
This is bs. You know I'm talking about the initial outward force.
  #280  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:21 AM
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i liked the guy, who thought the planes should have instantly disintegrated against the buildings and rain pulverized airplane down on unsuspecting bystanders below, better.

Last edited by manson1972; 09-18-2019 at 11:22 AM.
  #281  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:23 AM
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Show your work. Who is this "we" to whom you refer?

Show your work.



Explosives that would "throw" would be a stunningly poor use of explosives for building demolition. Explosives best "throw" things when confined in direction (i.e. a cannon barrel). If your explosives are tossing I-Beams your are doing something remarkably wrong with your demolition project. If you are using enough explosives to toss I-beams out & downward faster than gravity I think someone would hear them even in that unpopulated, desolate wasteland of Lower Manhattan.

Explosives in demolition projects are used to cut, not throw.
No one is saying any thing about controlled demolition. This was shock and awe so that people would believe any lie hand to them. Specifically American people.
  #282  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:23 AM
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This is bs. You know I'm talking about the initial outward force.
It's not BS. If you are talking about the initial outward force (i.e. whatever force caused the debris to fly out of the building) then my comment about the bullet experiment SHOULD have had you saying 'oh, I didn't know that' or 'oh, yeah, now I remember...yeah, this whole free fall thing is complete horseshit. Thanks for reminding me!' Neither seem to be the case.

So, again, the video that you are so fond of using for everything clearly shows debris falling faster than the collapse.
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  #283  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:24 AM
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This is bs. You know I'm talking about the initial outward force.
I hear a lot of "Because I say so" but you won't show your work...and you certainly haven't provided those cites you claimed we dismissed. Do you have anything from any peer-reviewed sources to back up any of your claims?
  #284  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:28 AM
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I don't know what to say to this. Of course it wasn't controlled in an old building way. that was kind of the point, shock and awe.
Truthers just have no idea about how demolition works.

Controlled or uncontrolled, you still have to deal with the way explosives operate. You think some guy can just toss a backpack against a column or just slap a fist sized lump of C4 on surface and your set to go.

Doesn't work that way.

I mean yeah, you could do it with enough explosives and whatnot, but all that is still not going to 'throw' I-beams around. Of course, using that much C4 is kinda loud and noticeable and no the noise is not going to be covered by the sound of the collapsing building.

Your lack of knowledge of this stuff is painfully obvious, yet you keep trying to Dunnigan-Kruger your way out of it.
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  #285  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by split p&j View Post
No one is saying any thing about controlled demolition. This was shock and awe so that people would believe any lie hand to them. Specifically American people.
So what was it? If it weren't a controlled demolition and not the official story, then what happened?
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by split p&j View Post
No one is saying any thing about controlled demolition.
I didn't say anything about controlled demolitions. My comments could be applied the use of explosives in general. Stop trying to strawman your way out of this.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:30 AM
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This is bs. You know I'm talking about the initial outward force.
Caused by what? Show your work.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by split p&j View Post
This is bs. You know I'm talking about the initial outward force.
Amazing how those bits which fall faster out of the debris cloud remained attached until their specific charges were set off. Or maybe you're just wrong.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Miskatonic View Post
Caused by what? Show your work.
It's actually irrelevant, though it would be nice if he'd give some details on what he believes. But regardless of whether the force expelling the debris out is explosives, compression (which is what it was) or aliens, once the object is expelled out horizontally it doesn't matter as it's gravity that acting on it. Which brings us full circle back to falling debris verse collapsing structure and why one was faster than the other.

I think split p&j is actually starting to realize there are some flaws in his understanding, which is why we aren't seeing him respond to this, and instead attempting more diversion. Not that everything he's said hasn't been a diversion.

Hell, getting back to an earlier comment of his when he decided to wade into this dying thread, I'd still like some specifics on how 'science' opposes 'the official story', as I've seen exactly zero examples. I assume his convoluted discussion about 'free fall' was part of this, but he was pretty unspecific.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:39 AM
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XT, I'm not saying the entire buildings free fall though the whole collapse. I'm saying the initial collapse was at near free fall speed and it shouldn't have been. I saying that the lower structure was explosively ejected to make so the top could fall at that speed.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by XT View Post
It's actually irrelevant, though it would be nice if he'd give some details on what he believes. But regardless of whether the force expelling the debris out is explosives, compression (which is what it was) or aliens, once the object is expelled out horizontally it doesn't matter as it's gravity that acting on it. Which brings us full circle back to falling debris verse collapsing structure and why one was faster than the other.

.
He seems to be hinting at explosives, but won't commit because that would mean an actual explanation as to why no such sounds were heard, etc.

That said, when someone says an I-beam was "thrown" sideways from the tower what are we to assume threw it? A really good Football QB? An I-Beam cannon?

When people pull out this 'I-beams thrown sideways by demolitions!!' I'd love to take them to a field, put an I-beam on the ground, along with every conventional explosives known to man and say "OK, make that I-beam fly, and make sure it shows no signs of explosives having been used. BTW, no other materials allowed so you can't make a cannon."
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by split p&j View Post
XT, I'm not saying the entire buildings free fall though the whole collapse. I'm saying the initial collapse was at near free fall speed and it shouldn't have been.
You have two claims here. Please provide proof of both.

Quote:
I saying that the lower structure was explosively ejected to make so the top could fall at that speed.
How?
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by split p&j View Post
[...] I saying that the lower structure was explosively ejected to make so the top could fall at that speed.
I didn't hear any explosions. There is audio/video of the collapse from hundreds of sources. Explosions of that magnitude make very loud sound which can be heard from great distances. There wasn't any sound like that.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by split p&j View Post
XT, I'm not saying the entire buildings free fall though the whole collapse. I'm saying the initial collapse was at near free fall speed and it shouldn't have been. I saying that the lower structure was explosively ejected to make so the top could fall at that speed.
It wasn't, though. The initial collapse, which has been shown and modeled dozens of times was fairly slow. And the lower structure WASN'T explosively ejected. The collapse started, unsurprisingly, right at the impact site. The lower structure didn't collapse until the weight of the upper sections fell on it, causing a cascade effect.

Seriously, this is all clearly visible in the video if you turn off the Truthers narrative buzzing in the background and watch. There are several videos that show closeups the collapse, and you can see the building sag just right where the plane hit. In addition, you can clearly seem the lower part of the building standing until the collapse debris strikes it.

As for the debris that is falling outward from the building, again, you can see that this is caused by the collapse compressing the floors as it is falling. Regardless, that horizontally expelled debris is clearly falling faster than the building is collapsing. Again, you can see this...you can SEE this outward debris falling around the still intact lower structure and hitting the ground BEFORE the lower structure is fully destroyed by the collapsing upper structure falling on it.
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  #295  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:51 AM
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I'm don't know how like I said.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:54 AM
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I'm don't know how like I said.
A wizard did it.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by split p&j View Post
I'm don't know how like I said.
That's funny-in a previous thread you claimed that there was a lot of evidence that thermite was used...then never told us where you got that info.
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Old 09-18-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by split p&j View Post
I saying that the lower structure was explosively ejected to make so the top could fall at that speed.
While leaving the cores standing?

WTC1

WTC2
  #299  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by split p&j View Post
This is bs. You know I'm talking about the initial outward force.


See, this is why no one believes your claims about understanding the "science" here. Because you're making a fundamental mistake that even high school level physics classes could correct.

https://www.physicsclassroom.com/cla...roblem-Solving


In projectile motion, any force that would be directed "outward" would have zero impact on the vertical movement of the object. That's what the earlier question about a dropped bullet vs. a bullet fired from a gun was hinting at.

The only way the "force" could impact the vertical movement is if it was directed (at least partially) in an upward or downward direction. If you don't understand that, you don't understand "the science", no matter how much you think you do.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Monocracy View Post
I didn't hear any explosions. There is audio/video of the collapse from hundreds of sources. Explosions of that magnitude make very loud sound which can be heard from great distances. There wasn't any sound like that.
Actually, there are sounds like explosives and there were many people who commented on them. Most were more like what people THINK are explosives (i.e. more like Hollywood explosives than the sharp sound of actual demolition explosives being used), and this is unsurprising. Hell, there WERE things that were exploding in the building. The plane itself, solvents and cleaning supplies, paint and other maintenance flammables, even diesel storage bunkers for generators and capacitors for batter backup systems for the buildings. Then there are pillars and support structures and the core exploding as all that weight that was designed for a static load hit it while moving downward. Lots and LOTS of things exploded.

But what there wasn't, and there is no evidence for, are building demolition explosives. There was no evidence of caps, no nests of wires or all the other myriad stuff that ACTUAL explosives need to be there to have them work. If we posit all wireless (in 2001) explosives, we have no evidence of that either. People have this idea that when you blow up stuff that it disappears, but that simply isn't true. There would be LOTS of evidence, especially if they wired multiple floors. Some device would have failed, or some evidence would have been left. But there is literally zero evidence of this, despite multiple groups looking for it.
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