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  #51  
Old 10-02-2019, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
I have a question for you - if people such as yourself (whatever stripe of politics you label yourself with) are really so anti-immigrant or, if you prefer, anti-illegal immigrant, why are you not advocating that BUSINESS OWNERS who hire illegal aliens are not arrested alongside the illegal aliens? Aren't those employers ALSO breaking the law? Indeed, doesn't their hiring of illegal aliens encourage such law-breaking? Hmm.... we could arrest the business owners, confiscate their money earned from criminal activity, and use it to pay for the cost of dealing with illegal immigration, yes?
Go for it, lock 'em up too if they knowingly hire illegal immigrants. If they weren't employing these people, they'd probably prefer to stay home because who wants to travel thousands of miles to end up no better off?
  #52  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
Also, his reference to "treasure" was hilarious! What, are we pirates now?
Treasure in that particular sense is not uncommon usage, actually.
  #53  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:39 PM
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Right - you arenít trying to help citizens with better healthcare or schools. Itís just another reason why conservatives want to cut taxes and services to everyone. If the weather is good, cut taxes and services. If it is bad, cut taxes and services. Too many immigrants, cut taxes and services. No immigrants, cut taxes and services.

By the way, I googled it: shoplifting costs the economy $50 billion a year. Meanwhile, illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than they consume in benefits.
You know who doesn't pay more in taxes than they consume in benefits? Red states.
  #54  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:42 PM
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Even still, I do not support shooting them. Not even a little.
  #55  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:49 PM
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You know who doesn't pay more in taxes than they consume in benefits? Red states.
Red states still have a lot of blue inhabitants. Plus I thought the so-called blues enjoyed wealth redistribution.
  #56  
Old 10-02-2019, 10:01 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised if it's a net positive for the US, as there are a hell of a lot of things that factor in to this. Illegal aliens, after all, buy stuff...and a lot of things bought in the US are taxed. In addition, often illegals actually DO pay payroll taxes, as they either use someone else's credentials or something similar, paying into things like social security despite not really getting the benefits. Sure, they also use social services, so I wouldn't be surprised, on the other hand, if it WAS billions...as in several billions, maybe even a few 10's of billions. But it's not going to be $250 billion, not unless you are seriously cherry picking your data and spinning like crazy.

I'd say the very fact that it's hard to nail down is a good indication it's not a serious issue that is draining the treasury. Hell, we spend more on NASA per year, and that's a very small fraction of our overall budget. This isn't what's causing the large deficits, and it's not taking away valuable services from native born citizens.
Most of your argument I agree with. The bolded part is only technically true and is missing major elements.

Primarily, illegal immigrants are competing for unskilled and semi-skilled jobs. Part of the reason they have to compete only in that pool is they can't get licenses and official credentials, but that is a digression.

For those Americans seeking work in that labor market, illegal immigrants greatly harm their hourly wage and employ-ability. We wouldn't necessarily need minimum wage laws if there were not 7.6 million illegal workers giving employers an effectively bottomless pool of replacement workers for most unskilled and semi-skilled positions!

"well, Americans who can't do anything else but drudge work don't deserve anything more".

Debatable, but one of the bugs in the system is you need money to become a skilled worker. The best (in terms of job prospects later and average pay) training costs a small fortune (100k+ tab for state school generally). Even heavily subsidized community college trade schools are not free, you have to cough up several thousand dollars in fees generally, and also somehow pay for food and rent during that time period. This is extremely difficult to do if you can't even get a minimum wage job washing dishes because an illegal immigrant is willing to wash more dishes for less money.

So Trump ran on a platform of opposing illegal immigrants. And he received massive support for poorly educated white men - specifically a group harmed by illegal immigration.

Now, yes, shooting them is counterproductive and it doesn't do anything about the 7.2 million still competing in the labor pool. The actual fix would be to make it a felony to employ a worker without submitting their documents to be verified. Point all those guns at the actual villains.
  #57  
Old 10-02-2019, 10:10 PM
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Red states still have a lot of blue inhabitants. Plus I thought the so-called blues enjoyed wealth redistribution.
Way to miss the point.
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  #58  
Old 10-02-2019, 10:14 PM
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...

Now, yes, shooting them is counterproductive and it doesn't do anything about the 7.2 million still competing in the labor pool. ...
That's glossing over the biggest reason not to shoot them by many magnitudes. They are people, for fuck's sake.
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  #59  
Old 10-03-2019, 11:28 AM
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Red states still have a lot of blue inhabitants. Plus I thought the so-called blues enjoyed wealth redistribution.
Yep, and a lack of redistribution within the state is exactly why they rely on federal government funds.

I thought red states didn't like big government or federal spending?

Last edited by Babale; 10-03-2019 at 11:30 AM.
  #60  
Old 10-03-2019, 11:30 AM
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That's glossing over the biggest reason not to shoot them by many magnitudes. They are people, for fuck's sake.
You and I may agree, but to some, they're not people - they're illegals.
  #61  
Old 10-03-2019, 12:04 PM
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Well those people need to be taught that all people are people.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 10-03-2019 at 12:04 PM.
  #62  
Old 10-03-2019, 02:08 PM
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Well those people need to be taught that all people are people.
You're right, but sadly one of them has been elected president. That's why he made the statements in the op.
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