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  #101  
Old 10-09-2019, 06:02 PM
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(haven't read most of the thread)

I do honestly wonder how to "deprogram" those folks who are basically so far right, they not only glom onto every single conspiracy theory but outright state they will ignore any information that doesn't come from extremist platforms. Obviously my own intuition would be to shrug and consider them lost brains ; but them brains have votes and might keep inflicting Trumps on the rest of us.

Maybe the solution would be an *actual* conspiracy to bring them bact into a semblance of reality : a news channel or AM radio host that would lace some reality-based (or even some morality-based) content into their insane screeds once in a while, more and more as their public grows.
That being said, it's an uphill battle judging by Freep, which goes from 100% support to "hang the traitor" at the first indication of doubt or reservation from their erstwhile idols. Even Tucker Carlson, that unpricipled empty suit and absolute darling of the fash is now persona non grata for having dared to say the Ukraine call was maybe not entirely on the up and up.
Which is both understandable and worrying, since that's the kind of headspace people were in during the Catholic/Protestant wars of the 16th & 17th century and individuals had to both mark undeniable affiliation to their side, and convince themselves they were right - which often included committing horrendous acts to short-circuit the whole thing and tell themselves "well it doesn't matter anymore I can't go back or even entertain the notion I might have been wrong". Those were not good years, FYI.

Last edited by Kobal2; 10-09-2019 at 06:07 PM.
  #102  
Old 10-09-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Kobal2 View Post
(haven't read most of the thread)

I do honestly wonder how to "deprogram" those folks ...
This thread suddenly took a dark turn.
  #103  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
This thread suddenly took a dark turn.
I know you're doing the "oooh librulz are using bad words, right wingers have to put up with SO MUCH" bit ; but at some point it really does become, if not programming, at least deliberately putting on blinders.

I've been watching entirely too many right wing youtube vids for recreational headdesking recently, and it really is bonkers not only the amount of utter shit they can put out based on like one study from 1940 that didn't say what they say it does and was a lot more narrowly focused than what they extrapolate from it and also it was based on sheep experimentation and also the persons who did the actual study actually came forward to say it was really kind of bollocks etc etc, just absolute shit methodology that can be debunked in literal *seconds* by anyone with just one iota of critical thought, ANYONE willing to just ask themselves "wait, why is he saying this to me ? And what does his cite say ?".
But they don't care. They don't care because they know their public doesn't care. It's absolutely not about any science or the stats or the facts - it's about repeating over and over that they're right, about everything, which they can prove by cherry picking studies and disregarding any other fact or proportion or context ; and the people who say they aren't right or who hold different opinions are implicitly morally despicable and eat too much soy (we don't) and soy has estrogen in it (it doesn't) which reduces sperm count (it doesn't either). Or somesuch ridiculous nonsense.

The very first step in learning anything whatsoever is humility. It's basic self-doubt and acknowledging that you don't know all there is to know about a subject, especially a subject you've just read like one pop culture article about (as opposed to people who do this shit for a living, for example). But Fox News pundits confidently opine that scientists talking about climate warning are WRONG, because they've found one study about one fraction of the problem that has one sentence in it that maybe warrants closer scrutiny because its results may defy expected models but the sample size was too small and it needs replicating... the usual academic humility and intellctual ass-covering. But to the right-wing sphere that's clearly the smoking gun that proves everything else is false and a hoax and... ye gods. So much intellectual paucity and transparent dishonesty that, really, even you should be offended at, feel insulted by it. They think you, their actual target public, lapping it up because you already have the preconceived notion that they're right, are a FUCKING IDIOT. They tell it to you right to your face.
  #104  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:56 PM
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Oh, but speaking of studies, the concept of "cognitive dissonance" (that is to say, holding two mutually exclusive ideas at the same time, and the mental strain and distress it can cause) was coined by a psycgologist pondering the results of a two year older study he'd done on members of a doomsday cult that had been announcing and preparing for, well, doomsday - as in an actual, specific date and time that they just knew was going to be It because proof and calculations and things. What we in the prophecy biz call "a newb mistake" - much better to stick with SOON obviously.

But anyway that date came and went and nothing whatsoever happened and... and none of them admitted that maybe they'd been wrong. Not one. Some were just as certain it had been postponed and started calculating the next date, some claimed they must have gotten the date slightly wrong but it was still coming and redid all the previous things over, while others opined that someone must have done something to prevent the end of days. Not one could bring themselves to believe "we were actually wrong" - because by then it wasn't about being right or wrong anymore of course, and it wasn't just a simple factoid to them. They'd built their entire identities, social ties, cultural markers and so on around that fucking date. They'd prepared and planned and burned bridges and said goodbyes and so on and so forth. And they just couldn't come back from that and admit to themselves or each other that, yeah, no, this had all been a colossal waste of time, effort and emotion for all involved and everybody who'd been telling them they were idiots had been right all along. They *knew* they were absolutely, incontrovertibly factually wrong ; but they also couldn't cast off the comfort of the certainty that they were right against all the naysayers. Hence, cognitive dissonance.

If you can't see any parallels with, say, climate change, or Trump being an out and out crook and idiot, or Qanon I really don't know how to show you how to connect those two dots.
  #105  
Old 10-11-2019, 03:20 PM
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This just in, Shepard Smith has quit Fox News.
This is important because Smith had just signed a multi-year contract, and because he was just about the only FN host with the slightest shred of credibility. This made him immensely unpopular with most of his audience.

So, is Fox doubling down on supporting Trump, or has Smith finally gotten enough hate mail that he decided to give up and teach journalism somewhere?
  #106  
Old 10-11-2019, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Kent Clark View Post
This just in, Shepard Smith has quit Fox News.
This is important because Smith had just signed a multi-year contract, and because he was just about the only FN host with the slightest shred of credibility. This made him immensely unpopular with most of his audience.

So, is Fox doubling down on supporting Trump, or has Smith finally gotten enough hate mail that he decided to give up and teach journalism somewhere?
I'm sure this is totally unrelated to Barr's meeting with Murdoch.
  #107  
Old 10-11-2019, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent Clark View Post
This just in, Shepard Smith has quit Fox News.
This is important because Smith had just signed a multi-year contract, and because he was just about the only FN host with the slightest shred of credibility. This made him immensely unpopular with most of his audience.

So, is Fox doubling down on supporting Trump, or has Smith finally gotten enough hate mail that he decided to give up and teach journalism somewhere?
In the battle between opinion and fact, Fox News management chose opinion:

Smith was the face of Fox's news division which has recently found itself a remarkable state of conflict with the network's opinion hosts and commentators. In the Trump era, and particularly in the last several weeks, the people working for the news division have seen their work undermined repeatedly by their opinion colleagues.

Smith was no exception. In late September, Tucker Carlson, a pro-Trump host, mocked Smith when he stood up for Judge Andrew Napolitano. Napolitano was called a "fool" by a guest on Carlson's show for saying Trump had committed a crime, and Smith had said the attack was "repugnant."

In his exit, Smith alluded to the tension between the opinion and news divisions, saying that the news division has always "endeavored to deliver" the news "while speaking truth to power, without fear or favor, in context and with perspective."

Smith signed off his newscast adding, "Even in our current polarized nation, it is my hope that the facts will win the day, that the truth will always matter, that journalism and journalists will thrive."

[source]
  #108  
Old 10-12-2019, 08:19 AM
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Of course, to the MAGAts, truth is subjective with many versions available and journalists thrive only if they hew to Dear Leader's version of it.
  #109  
Old 10-12-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by nelliebly View Post
In the battle between opinion and fact, Fox News management chose opinion:
The battle was over with years ago in Fox World. Opinion won.

The current conflict going on at Fox is over which alternative reality they should be creating. Are they supposed to be selling the idea that Trump is the Chosen One? Or that he's a disgraced pseudo-Democrat? They're telling a story and they can't figure out if the central character is the hero or the villain.
  #110  
Old 10-12-2019, 03:14 PM
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I meant to indicate that this portion of my last post here was a quotation and not my words:

Quote:
Smith was the face of Fox's news division which has recently found itself a remarkable state of conflict with the network's opinion hosts and commentators. In the Trump era, and particularly in the last several weeks, the people working for the news division have seen their work undermined repeatedly by their opinion colleagues.

Smith was no exception. In late September, Tucker Carlson, a pro-Trump host, mocked Smith when he stood up for Judge Andrew Napolitano. Napolitano was called a "fool" by a guest on Carlson's show for saying Trump had committed a crime, and Smith had said the attack was "repugnant."

In his exit, Smith alluded to the tension between the opinion and news divisions, saying that the news division has always "endeavored to deliver" the news "while speaking truth to power, without fear or favor, in context and with perspective."

Smith signed off his newscast adding, "Even in our current polarized nation, it is my hope that the facts will win the day, that the truth will always matter, that journalism and journalists will thrive."
My apologies.
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