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Old 08-14-2019, 12:43 PM
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Trump has added $4 Trillion to the National Debt. Where is the Tea Party?


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President Donald Trump signed a budget deal last week that will add another $1.7 trillion to the national debt, according to the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. Despite promising to wipe out the national debt in eight years during his presidential campaign, the president has added an estimated $4.1 trillion to the country's debt within his first two and a half years in office.

Interest paid on the increasing national debt has surged, already surpassing the total spent all last year.

Net interest paid on the national debt has jumped up nearly $20 billion to $343 billion in the first 10 months of this fiscal year, already surpassing the $325 billion spent all of last year.
https://www.newsweek.com/budget-nati...-trump-1454143

In line with Rush Limbaugh stating "nobody is a fiscal conservative anymore" recently, is it fair to suggest the Tea Party movement was never about the debt, fiscal conservatism is a myth and the GOP will do a total u-turn once a Democrat is in the Oval Office again?
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:47 PM
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They're fine with it because in the end, the debt only matters when Democrats add to it in order to fund social programs. But if Republicans pile on the debt to the point where the budget is about to break, "Oh my! Well, it looks like we can't afford social security, medicare, medicaid, SNAP, and TANF. So-reeeeee!"
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:47 PM
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... is it fair to suggest the Tea Party movement was never about the debt, fiscal conservatism is a myth and the GOP will do a total u-turn once a Democrat is in the Oval Office again?
Certainly.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:53 PM
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Fiscal conservatism is not a myth, but it is dead. Reagan killed it damn near 40 years ago. It was always about rhetoric for Republican pols. Democrats bought into it as well and shrieked that the Republicans were cutting too much and starving black babies or something.

I will also note that the wokest Dem congress in history just passed a budget giving Trump’s Pentagon every cent they asked for. The military welfare complex plays both sides nicely.

Last edited by WillFarnaby; 08-14-2019 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 08-14-2019, 03:12 PM
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I will also note that the wokest Dem congress in history just passed a budget giving Trump’s Pentagon every cent they asked for.
They didn't.

The NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) for 2020 is still in process. There are differences in the House and Senate bills to be resolved in conference committee. (Cite)

There was an agreement to exceed Budget Control Act limits for DOD and other authorizations. That included an agreement on what the total DOD number will be. That DOD topline is 738 million in both bills. DOD requested 750 million. That's 1.2 trillion cents more than they are probably getting(Cite and Cite)

...and now back to the OP after the detour for accuracy.

Last edited by DinoR; 08-14-2019 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 08-14-2019, 03:32 PM
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They didn't.

The NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) for 2020 is still in process. There are differences in the House and Senate bills to be resolved in conference committee. (Cite)

There was an agreement to exceed Budget Control Act limits for DOD and other authorizations. That included an agreement on what the total DOD number will be. That DOD topline is 738 million in both bills. DOD requested 750 million. That's 1.2 trillion cents more than they are probably getting(Cite and Cite)

...and now back to the OP after the detour for accuracy.
In the context of the thread, this is rather pointless nitpicking.

First of all, Will Farnaby said that the Dems agreed to give the Pentagon every cent they asked for, which is actually pretty much what happened. As this story notes, officials at the Pentagon had been planning for the $733B figure, and talks of more than this were actually "a welcome surprise to military planners."
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While not a huge leap, the figure is more of an increase than budget planners initially expected, reflecting growth of 4.7 percent over last yearís top line. Defense officials had been planning for a $733 billion overall national defense budget, which would have been an increase of 2.4 percent over last yearís $716 billion top line.
So the figure that Dems have agreed to is basically the figure that military officials were counting on, and your correction of Will Farnaby is, at best, a rather semantic one, and depends on exactly whom you define as "Trump's Pentagon." If it's the military planners themselves, he is correct; if it's Mick Mulvaney, then you are. Tomato, tomahto.

But much more importantly, his central point stands: in the face of growing deficits and a massive national debt, the best that Democrats and Republicans can do is tinker around the edges, bickering about exactly how many more billions the Pentagon should be getting, when what they should be talking about is significantly scaling back military spending.
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:05 PM
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They didn't.

The NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) for 2020 is still in process. There are differences in the House and Senate bills to be resolved in conference committee. (Cite)

There was an agreement to exceed Budget Control Act limits for DOD and other authorizations. That included an agreement on what the total DOD number will be. That DOD topline is 738 million in both bills. DOD requested 750 million. That's 1.2 trillion cents more than they are probably getting(Cite and Cite)

...and now back to the OP after the detour for accuracy.
Your cites donít say how much the pentagon requested. They requested $733 billion.

Thank you mhendo for providing that cite from Foreign Policy, I appreciate it.
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Old 08-14-2019, 05:18 PM
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Trump has added $4 Trillion to the National Debt. Where is the Tea Party?


Justin Amash?
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Old 08-14-2019, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by WillFarnaby View Post
Your cites donít say how much the pentagon requested. They requested $733 billion.

Thank you mhendo for providing that cite from Foreign Policy, I appreciate it.
Huh? mhendoís cite, which you thanked him for, says the Pentagon requested $750 billion: ďTrump seeks $750 billion.Ē

You canít say DoD requested $733 billion when you literally just read that they did not. (Mind you, $733 billion is still too much, to say nothing of $738 billion, but thatís the nature of compromise.)
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:43 PM
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Huh? mhendo’s cite, which you thanked him for, says the Pentagon requested $750 billion: “Trump seeks $750 billion.”

You can’t say DoD requested $733 billion when you literally just read that they did not. (Mind you, $733 billion is still too much, to say nothing of $738 billion, but that’s the nature of compromise.)
Like I said in my post, it depends how you define "Trump's Pentagon."

As my story notes, the military leaders in the Pentagon were all set at $733 billion, but Mulvaney (presumably after some DoD types got in his ear) convinced Trump that it should be $750 billion.

But your last parenthetical sentence is the more important one, and it's why I accused DinoR of pointless nitpicking. The most important thing, in the context of this discussion, is that Dems seem basically just as willing as the GOP to hand the military pretty much all the money it wants, and to continue increasing military appropriations at a time when those appropriations should be reduced.

Last edited by mhendo; 08-14-2019 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:54 PM
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It should have been obvious from the beginning, because the Tea Party movement never supported cuts to military spending. It's always been about "I'm paying too much tax" and "The poor don't deserve handouts."
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:04 PM
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It should have been obvious from the beginning, because the Tea Party movement never supported cuts to military spending. It's always been about "I'm paying too much tax" and "The poor don't deserve handouts."
But somehow the rich and the highly profitable corporations do.
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:09 PM
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The Republicans don’t cut welfare spending either. Where have you been?
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:17 PM
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The Republicans donít cut welfare spending either. Where have you been?
No one said they did, just that they keep threatening to.
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:24 PM
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The Tea Party was mostly about culture, ethnicity, and race. It was clear enough then, but this should make it extra-extra clear. They (meaning tea-party Republicans in office) are fine with spending, just not by Democrats, and especially not by black Democrats with foreign-sounding names.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 08-14-2019 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:41 PM
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The Tea Party was mostly about culture, ethnicity, and race. It was clear enough then, but this should make it extra-extra clear. They (meaning tea-party Republicans in office) are fine with spending, just not by Democrats, and especially not by black Democrats with foreign-sounding names.
Yeah, the Tea Party pretended to be about fiscal responsibility when that message lined up with their broader social and cultural parochialism, but they were never serious about it. They were, for the most part, all about identity politics.

What's more interesting to me in the current political environment is the almost complete abdication of policy priorities by the one group of Republicans who really did, for a while at least, seem to actually believe their own rhetoric about budget deficits and fiscal responsibility: the Freedom Caucus.

If there was one faction within the Republican Party that I thought might actually have the courage of its economic conservatism, this was it. While I disagreed with many of the Freedom Caucus's arguments, they always struck me as folks who might actually be willing to stand up for their principles, even within their own party, and especially against someone like Trump. And yet, with the exception of Justin Amash, who's ditched the GOP altogether, the Freedom Caucus members have shown themselves just as cynical as every other Republican in their power grubbing, and just as willing to throw out of their previous criticisms of Trump, in order to ride the Orange Bandwagon.
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:26 PM
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Of the Congress people who were elected in 2010 during the Tea Party wave, how many are still in office? I don't know the answer, but my impression was that their numbers have shrank significantly.
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:15 PM
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Of the Congress people who were elected in 2010 during the Tea Party wave, how many are still in office? I don't know the answer, but my impression was that their numbers have shrank significantly.
I looked it up. I count 23 current members of the House Tea Party Caucus, with 24 being former members. Of the formers, some have gone on to bigger things, like Mick Mulvaneu becoming the Acting Chief of Staff to the President. Others have had a tougher time, like Michelle Bachmann, who continues to be Michelle Bachmann.

Until there’s a cure, people.

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Old 08-15-2019, 08:41 AM
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Of the Congress people who were elected in 2010 during the Tea Party wave, how many are still in office? I don't know the answer, but my impression was that their numbers have shrank significantly.
And their GOP replacements are different how?

We all know the game: the GOP is all about cracking down on deficits - when a Dem is in the White House, and only then. Bush the Elder was the one exception to that in the past 40 years, and he all but had an intra-party rebellion on his hands.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:24 AM
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And their GOP replacements are different how?

We all know the game: the GOP is all about cracking down on deficits - when a Dem is in the White House, and only then. Bush the Elder was the one exception to that in the past 40 years, and he all but had an intra-party rebellion on his hands.
I'm pretty disappointed in the level of spending - I'd like it to be cut quite significantly.

The question was in regard to how many are in office as a result of that Tea Party push in 2010. If they were all still there but have since changed their tune, that would be different than if they all turned over and the replacements didn't campaign on the same issues.
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:26 PM
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With the two-party system, we've unfortunately gotten into a situation where neither party has any incentive to reduce the debt. It has become a hot potato to pass around. Debt-cutting measures such as austerity, tax hikes and spending cuts will cause pain to voters, who then punish the debt-cutting party.......by voting the opposing party into power. It's a tiger neither party can afford to get off of and stop riding.

In fact, it may be in the interest of one party to now increase the debt, so as to make it likelier that the opposing party will suffer a debt crisis when they are in power, which then causes backlash and gets the first side back in power again.
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:52 PM
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With the two-party system, we've unfortunately gotten into a situation where neither party has any incentive to reduce the debt. It has become a hot potato to pass around. Debt-cutting measures such as austerity, tax hikes and spending cuts will cause pain to voters, who then punish the debt-cutting party.......by voting the opposing party into power. It's a tiger neither party can afford to get off of and stop riding.

In fact, it may be in the interest of one party to now increase the debt, so as to make it likelier that the opposing party will suffer a debt crisis when they are in power, which then causes backlash and gets the first side back in power again.
Debt and deficit spending seems to be more about who's gore is getting oxed these days. There IS no fiscal responsible party, and no fiscal conservatives. Now, it depends on what and why you are going into deficit spending on, no on doing it at all.

WRT to the Tea Party, I think they are down to only about 40 or so these days, so they aren't really much of a factor. I don't think they have that much power wrt the party anymore, if they ever really did.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:52 AM
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whose gore is getting oxed
What does it mean when you invert the phrase "whose ox is gored"?

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Old 08-14-2019, 10:49 PM
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With the two-party system, we've unfortunately gotten into a situation where neither party has any incentive to reduce the debt. It has become a hot potato to pass around. Debt-cutting measures such as austerity, tax hikes and spending cuts will cause pain to voters, who then punish the debt-cutting party.......by voting the opposing party into power. It's a tiger neither party can afford to get off of and stop riding.
I don't agree with that. We've seen what Republicans do when they control Congress and the Presidency. Let's come back to this thread the next time Democrats are in the same position and see what they do with respect to the deficit. Personally, I think they'd be a damn sight more responsible than the Republicans.
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:00 PM
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I was always under the impression that the tea party faction was never a large grouping and that their influence came solely from the fact that they held just enough support to become the balance of power. Empty vessels make most noise and all that....
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:07 PM
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Just to gore the other oxe, I did a quick Google search, and found that there are nearly 100 self identified progressives in Congress, so one might ask, why haven't they pushed through a full progressive agenda? I mean, if you are asking where is the Tea Party wrt deficit spending (i.e., why haven't they used their massive power of 48 members to shift Congress and stop the deficit spending), I'd be asking why Progressives haven't done more for their own agenda.

Of course, the answer is really the same, which is American politics don't really work like that. You can't just do what you want, even within your own party. You have to ally and horse trade with other people who want or demand different things, and you have to compromise.

I do find it very interesting that, now that the shoe is on the other foot and Republicans are more in charge that deficit spending is not a big deal anymore. It's very hypocritical, and definitely demonstrates what the OP is wanting to, which is that deficits really weren't that important to Republicans...it was just something they used against the other party when they were doing it. And, I'm sure, folks in this thread won't care much about them either when the Dems are back on top and doing more deficits, as many of the Dem hopefuls seem to be raring to go wrt more spending. More spending seems to be the only thing both parties can agree on, even if they can't agree on what we should be spending more on...
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Old 08-14-2019, 02:10 PM
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I do find it very interesting that, now that the shoe is on the other foot and Republicans are more in charge that deficit spending is not a big deal anymore. It's very hypocritical, and definitely demonstrates what the OP is wanting to, which is that deficits really weren't that important to Republicans...it was just something they used against the other party when they were doing it. And, I'm sure, folks in this thread won't care much about them either when the Dems are back on top and doing more deficits, as many of the Dem hopefuls seem to be raring to go wrt more spending. More spending seems to be the only thing both parties can agree on, even if they can't agree on what we should be spending more on...

I'm not sure it's necessarily that Republicans like big spending or that the debt isn't a big deal to them, as it is that it's utterly drowned out by other noise these days. Politics over the past few years (and not just the Trump years) has turned into a shrill screaming match with a hundred different opinions screeched at max volume. With the border wall, kids in cages, trade war with China, identity politics, Russia, Mueller, impeachment, AOC, etc., the issue of debt and the deficit has simply faded to background noise.
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:46 AM
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I'm not sure it's necessarily that Republicans like big spending or that the debt isn't a big deal to them, as it is that it's utterly drowned out by other noise these days. Politics over the past few years (and not just the Trump years) has turned into a shrill screaming match with a hundred different opinions screeched at max volume. With the border wall, kids in cages, trade war with China, identity politics, Russia, Mueller, impeachment, AOC, etc., the issue of debt and the deficit has simply faded to background noise.
This makes no sense at all.

If the debt and deficit aren't really the big issues that people are focusing on, and if people care much more about all of the other things you've listed, then surely it should be pretty easy to pass a budget that reduces the deficit. If everyone is paying attention to the other stuff, and you hold both houses of Congress as well as the Presidency, and if you've run on a campaign of reducing the deficit and the debt, why not just pass a responsible budget? If the issue is "not a big deal" and is "utterly drowned out by other noise," as you suggest, then there will no political downside to cutting the deficit, right?
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:11 AM
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I do find it very interesting that, now that the shoe is on the other foot and Republicans are more in charge that deficit spending is not a big deal anymore. It's very hypocritical, and definitely demonstrates what the OP is wanting to, which is that deficits really weren't that important to Republicans...it was just something they used against the other party when they were doing it. And, I'm sure, folks in this thread won't care much about them either when the Dems are back on top and doing more deficits, as many of the Dem hopefuls seem to be raring to go wrt more spending. More spending seems to be the only thing both parties can agree on, even if they can't agree on what we should be spending more on...
You shouldn't find it interesting; if you're paying any attention, you should have expected based on past actions over the past 40 years. It's not interesting, it's so normal as to be unremarkable in any way.

Framing it as "well, I guess all the parties just do it the same, those crazy politicians" is the last refuge of people who are unwilling to take a hard stand against the obvious Republican lie.
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Old 08-14-2019, 03:17 PM
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I thought they mostly died.
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Old 08-14-2019, 03:29 PM
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Deficits only matter when Democrats are in the White House, and they count double if a black Democrat is president. Republicans campaign on promising not only to eliminate the deficit but pay off the debt, and somehow manage to avoid being smitten by lightning and the Bible doesn't spontaneously combust when they are sworn in.

The Tea Party has just been consumed by the White Nationalists just as Republicans were taken over by Fascists. Tea Partiers never gave a flying fuck about deficits, they just couldn't stomach the idea of a black president.

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Old 08-14-2019, 03:29 PM
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https://www.newsweek.com/budget-nati...-trump-1454143

In line with Rush Limbaugh stating "nobody is a fiscal conservative anymore" recently, is it fair to suggest the Tea Party movement was never about the debt, fiscal conservatism is a myth and the GOP will do a total u-turn once a Democrat is in the Oval Office again?
Rush is correct about the "no fiscal conservatives" part, and certainly the GOP will flip if and when a Democrat is in the White House. Trouble is that Rush is correct about the "no fiscal conservatives" part, because so will the Dems. All spending bills originate in the House of Representatives - refresh my memory, which party controls that House?

And Trump meant exactly as much by his pledge as previous Presidents meant by theirs.

The deficit is inexcusably high, and there is no better time to address it than now. Years ago would have been better. It needs to be addressed with spending cuts, and tax increases, in a roughly 2:1 ratio. Republicans will not cut military spending, Democrats will not cut anything else, neither party will increase taxes (see the Bush era tax cut expiration), and everything else is political posturing.

We should care about this. Both parties should be just as up in arms now as they were when a member of the other party was in the White House. But politicians don't get re-elected by cutting spending.

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Old 08-14-2019, 03:38 PM
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<snip> It needs to be addressed with spending cuts, and tax increases, in a roughly 2:1 ratio. <snip>
And when Obama offered 10 dollars in spending cuts for every dollar of tax increases, Republicans told him to go pound sand.

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Old 08-14-2019, 03:42 PM
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Rush is correct about the "no fiscal conservatives" part, and certainly the GOP will flip if and when a Democrat is in the White House. Trouble is that Rush is correct about the "no fiscal conservatives" part, because so will the Dems. All spending bills originate in the House of Representatives - refresh my memory, which party controls that House?
This is not just about what parties do; it's about the connection (or otherwise) between what they say and what they do. Refresh my memory, which party is the one that makes fiscal conservatism and reduced government spending a centerpiece of its platform? And refresh my memory also on which party held both houses and Congress AND the White House for the two years starting in January 2017.
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And Trump meant exactly as much by his pledge as previous Presidents meant by theirs.
This is hilarious, and I would actually be surprised at the disingenousness of this argument if I didn't have almost two decades of experience with your obfuscatory debating tactics. It's a perfect storm of Shodan false equivalency.

Obama promised to halve the deficit in his first term in office, and according to your linked story, he "only" managed to REDUCE the deficit by about $500 billion. Trump promised to reduce the deficit, and he mas managed to ADD over $300 billion to the deficit in three years, with the promise of even greater deficits in the years ahead.

In your mind, these two things are apparently equal. LOL.
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Old 08-14-2019, 03:54 PM
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This is not just about what parties do; it's about the connection (or otherwise) between what they say and what they do. Refresh my memory, which party is the one that makes fiscal conservatism and reduced government spending a centerpiece of its platform? And refresh my memory also on which party held both houses and Congress AND the White House for the two years starting in January 2017.
This is hilarious, and I would actually be surprised at the disingenousness of this argument if I didn't have almost two decades of experience with your obfuscatory debating tactics. It's a perfect storm of Shodan false equivalency.

Obama promised to halve the deficit in his first term in office, and according to your linked story, he "only" managed to REDUCE the deficit by about $500 billion. Trump promised to reduce the deficit, and he mas managed to ADD over $300 billion to the deficit in three years, with the promise of even greater deficits in the years ahead.

In your mind, these two things are apparently equal. LOL.
I should also like to add the fact that Obama inherited a costly war and a tattered economy that was in dire straights, while Trump inherited a basically ramped down war and a strong economy.
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:19 PM
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And Trump meant exactly as much by his pledge as previous Presidents meant by theirs.
I want to ask you directly about this, because you ignored my previous post on the issue.

Scenario 1

Obama promised to cut the deficit in half during his first term, but according to your story, he failed to do that, and only managed to reduce the deficit by about 36%, or about $500 billion.*

Scenario 2

Trump promised to reduce the deficit, and in one interview said that he could eliminate it altogether and balance the budget "I think over a five-year period." He also promised to eliminate the national debt (not the deficit; the debt**) "over a period of eight years." Deficits have increased by about $300 million per year, and are projected to keep rising. The debt has risen by almost three trillion dollars.

Your quoted comment above suggests that you believe that these two scenarios are equivalent, in terms of honesty and a good faith effort to fulfill promises. Do you actually believe this to be the case?

* It's worth noting that the figures in your linked article ($900 billion deficit) were still projections, because the 2013 budget had not been finalized. If we go to the CBO's own figures (Excel Spreadsheet), we see that they list the actual 2013 deficit at $679.8 billion. If we subtract this from the 2009 deficit of $1.4 trillion, it looks like Obama actually did fulfill his promise to halve the deficit in four years.

** To be fair, it's not clear to me whether Trump actually understands the difference between the deficit and the debt. He might, in that second interview, have thought that he was promising to eliminate the deficit in eight years, rather than the whole debt.

Last edited by mhendo; 08-15-2019 at 07:19 PM.
  #37  
Old 08-16-2019, 01:59 AM
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A good article by Joseph E. Stiglitz, Nobel Prize winner in economics:

Trumpís Deficit Economy

Quote:
Trump promised to get the trade deficit down, but his profound lack of understanding of economics has led to it increasing, just as most economists predicted it would.
  #38  
Old 08-14-2019, 03:40 PM
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When did he do that? And is that a literal figure, or hyperbole?

Regards,
Shodan
  #39  
Old 08-15-2019, 07:51 AM
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The US ran a surplus under Bill Clinton for four straight years, so don't say it can't be done.
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  #40  
Old 08-15-2019, 08:09 AM
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Joe Walsh just apologized for his role in electing Teimp, so maybe some Tea Party Representatives can admit that they were wrong/pandering.
  #41  
Old 08-18-2019, 09:20 AM
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Joe Walsh just apologized for his role in electing Teimp, so maybe some Tea Party Representatives can admit that they were wrong/pandering.
You mean all 43 of them that were actually motivated by fiscal responsibility?
  #42  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:02 AM
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A) The tea party wasn't about the debt, as was clear to anyone who actually looked for 3 seconds at one of the protests.

B) The guiding principle of the conservative movement on fiscal matters is that there should be stimulus during Republican presidencies and austerity during Democratic presidencies.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 08-15-2019 at 09:03 AM.
  #43  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:34 AM
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A) The tea party wasn't about the debt, as was clear to anyone who actually looked for 3 seconds at one of the protests.

B) The guiding principle of the conservative movement on fiscal matters is that there should be stimulus during Republican presidencies and austerity during Democratic presidencies.
I would argue it's the belief that water running downhill will never reach the bottom. So long as we remain the world's reserve currency, that's fine. But eventually pressure will grow and rates will climb and we'll either devalue the currency or have some other calamitous thing occur to force things into balance again.
  #44  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:57 AM
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All I have to say is that as a lefty Dem, I really, truly hope that the Trump-era actions re: Republican deficit increases have finally convinced my party that the GOP is spectacularly full of shit on the deficit issue, and that the next time the GOP/media sounds the five-alarm fire on deficits the Democrats must collectively tell them all to screw off and proceed to implement whatever policies they want to implement.

From a purely political standpoint, nobody cares about the deficit and it should basically just be ignored. I hope that the Democrats have finally learned that.

Last edited by 2ManyTacos; 08-15-2019 at 09:59 AM.
  #45  
Old 08-15-2019, 11:26 AM
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the next time the GOP/media sounds the five-alarm fire on deficits the Democrats must collectively tell them all to screw off and proceed to implement whatever policies they want to implement.
Unfortunately, the deficit does have real effects. This sounds like the USA and China quarreling over who emits more carbon emissions, and then saying "the next time you complain about my emissions while you spew billions of tons, I'm going to ignore you and keep spewing mine as well." The net result is the same: A heated world environment.

D's and R's can spar and accuse and criticize, but the numbers will go up steadily - $25 trillion, $30 trillion, $40 trillion.
  #46  
Old 08-15-2019, 11:36 AM
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D's and R's can spar and accuse and criticize
The R's were 100% responsible for this recent increase in the deficit, they held both houses and the presidency, and voted to sharply increase the deficit despite complaining about how high it was for the last 8 years.

Every single Democrat voted against this deficit increasing crapshow, stop with the BSAB.

So, must we ask the question again? What happened to the deficit hawks in the Republican party who wouldn't shut up about them when Obama was in office?
  #47  
Old 08-16-2019, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Feldon View Post
A) The tea party wasn't about the debt, as was clear to anyone who actually looked for 3 seconds at one of the protests.

B) The guiding principle of the conservative movement on fiscal matters is that there should be stimulus during Republican presidencies and austerity during Democratic presidencies.
Although your "B)" is correct from a functional standpoint, I'm not sure it's a guiding principle. On the right, when it comes to fiscal matters, the only thing that matters is that there are tax cuts. End of story. They don't care about debt. They don't care about spending, austerity, or stimulus. They just want to cut taxes, and those tax cuts should occur mostly, or all, within the top 1%.

To answer the OP's question about where is the Tea Party? They're out there trying to help Trump get re-elected. The Tea Party never existed as an actual fiscally conservative force. They were astroturf from day one. And most of them voted for Trump, and still like Trump.
  #48  
Old 08-15-2019, 12:26 PM
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More specifically, it's a cover story they can tell themselves about why "those people" should not get any benefits, like they do.
  #49  
Old 08-16-2019, 08:35 AM
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More specifically, let former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill explain it:

Quote:
O'Neill said he tried to warn Vice President Dick Cheney that growing budget deficits posed a threat to the economy.

Cheney cut him off, O'Neill said. "You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don't matter," he said, according to excerpts. Cheney continued: "We won the midterms [congressional elections]. This is our due."

A month later, in December 2002, Cheney told the Treasury secretary he was fired.
But that doesn't hold a patch to Trump's promise to eliminate not only the deficit, but the debt, in 10 years. How's that goin', big fella?
  #50  
Old 08-16-2019, 09:16 AM
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Simple:
  • Trump The US declares bankruptcy
  • The debt goes away.
  • Profit!
I mean, it's worked for him before, hasn't it?
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