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  #151  
Old 10-16-2016, 09:23 PM
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Did you respec and spend ALL your helium on wormholes, or did you leave your perks alone and spend just the helium you were earning on that run on wormholes?
  #152  
Old 10-17-2016, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Munch View Post
I broke the world on my last playthrough (I'm currently slogging through the last map upgrades on lvl 59 before doing it again). What a massive wall to hit that is. Managed to get to lvl 65, and had to portal since it was so slow.
Don't waste resources on prestige upgrades immediately prior to breaking the planet, because their cost is reduced by 90% afterwards. You need about ~700 Qa combined health and block to beat zone 59, so once you have that, stop buying any more upgrades. It will be almost entirely block too - just keep up with Gymystic and max out your gyms (along with a healthy amount of Trainers) and you should have enough.

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Did you respec and spend ALL your helium on wormholes, or did you leave your perks alone and spend just the helium you were earning on that run on wormholes?
Respec only lets you reallocate the He you had before the run started. You cannot spend the He you're earning on your current run on perks until you portal anyway, and that is the only He that will be available for you to spend on Wormholes.
  #153  
Old 10-17-2016, 01:53 AM
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Just beat the Trapper challenge. Pretty easy specced for 20 points in Bait (no Phermones of course), and a bit over 50K He to spend. Anticipation seems like it will be quite powerful in the slow later zones once it's maxed out, especially with Geneticists and Heap formation (since it gives you a longer lifespan to regen Trimps before the next fighting group gets sent into battle).
  #154  
Old 10-17-2016, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Rigamarole View Post
Don't waste resources on prestige upgrades immediately prior to breaking the planet, because their cost is reduced by 90% afterwards. You need about ~700 Qa combined health and block to beat zone 59, so once you have that, stop buying any more upgrades. It will be almost entirely block too - just keep up with Gymystic and max out your gyms (along with a healthy amount of Trainers) and you should have enough.
Yeah - I wasn't spending on the upgrades, just getting them before the difficulty ramped up.
  #155  
Old 10-17-2016, 02:01 PM
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When I first took the push to 60, I bought 'only' 10 Wormholes rather than all my helium worth, and that seemed like enough to me. It'll probably be faster buying even more, though obviously you'll be spending helium.

I'm still on the long climb to 100, 3days 17h in and I'm on zone 86. Things are pretty slow now but I hope to get there in a few more days, possibly with another day grinding on 100 itself to do all my void maps there.
  #156  
Old 10-17-2016, 04:18 PM
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Wow, good luck doing Void Maps on 100.. they are a pain in the ass even trying to do them post-60 for me right now (and I just spent like 2 hours grinding one out and got a fucking common Heirloom - 5% chance! Ugh).

I feel like I need quite a few more runs to rack up He (spending the bulk of it on Carpentry) before I'll be ready to push that high.
  #157  
Old 10-17-2016, 05:26 PM
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People seem to be talking as though pushing to break the planet for the first time is a big deal. Why is that? Is there some special advantage that breaking the planet gives you that carries through to subsequent runs? Some new perk, for example?
  #158  
Old 10-17-2016, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Arcite View Post
People seem to be talking as though pushing to break the planet for the first time is a big deal. Why is that? Is there some special advantage that breaking the planet gives you that carries through to subsequent runs? Some new perk, for example?
Well, it does unlock the Auto-Upgrade feature permanently (which I recommend leaving on in most cases, especially when idle - it will buy your Coordination upgrades and resource harvesting books etc. automatically which allows you to get further when you're not playing actively. But not equipment prestiges or anything that requires a confirmation box). That's one good reason.

It also unlocks the Trimp challenge (pretty easy to beat), which leads to the Resilience perk (a solid perk that synergizes with Toughness).

But really the main reason that pushing for it is important is because you get 5x He on all zones from 59 and up, so your He collection starts to increase significantly, allowing you to buy lots more perks and make significant advancement in the game. When you're piddling around in the sub-60 zones for just a few hundred He per run, you're wasting time compared to the massive He rewards you get post-broken planet. This is true for every run where you break the planet of course, but the first time is significant only because it means you know you can reach that point again and again on future runs. And of course the more He you accumulate, the easier it gets each time.
  #159  
Old 10-17-2016, 06:33 PM
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Wow, good luck doing Void Maps on 100.. they are a pain in the ass even trying to do them post-60 for me right now (and I just spent like 2 hours grinding one out and got a fucking common Heirloom - 5% chance! Ugh).

I feel like I need quite a few more runs to rack up He (spending the bulk of it on Carpentry) before I'll be ready to push that high.
Yeah, I expect it to be rough. On the other hand, the Barrier formation from level 80 helps on void maps, particularly as there's no pierce there. Plus, 100 is a level where gymystic drops, which should multiply my block by more than a factor of 10.

It would have been faster if I'd ground out some more helium before doing it, but I'm betting the 60% megabook bonus will make helium very fast once I finish Frugal.
  #160  
Old 10-19-2016, 02:48 AM
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Oops - just made a mistake. Pause.

Can I revert to the last autosave game?
  #161  
Old 10-19-2016, 07:51 AM
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I completed the Balance challenge, but couldn't even hope to beat the first cell of any of the Void maps at level 45 like I could last time. I'm going to slog on to 55 to try Decay. I chose Golden Battle when I reached 50, since I figured Battle was 100% of play, but Void and Helium happenstance would be much more rare.

Peter - Yes, the game will start from your last autosave. Mistakes are generally pretty easy to recover from, since Upgrades will make those errors moot. Sometimes I export and save to a Google doc before I do something major like respec, but you'll eventually get to the point where you can just Portal and start over without too much wasted effort, because you'll have learned a better method through trial and error.

Last edited by Knowed Out; 10-19-2016 at 07:51 AM.
  #162  
Old 10-19-2016, 11:07 AM
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I completed the Balance challenge, but couldn't even hope to beat the first cell of any of the Void maps at level 45 like I could last time.
I finished the Scientist challenge and am about to portal and start Balance. Any suggestions? The Wiki says to run maps every level. That about right?
  #163  
Old 10-19-2016, 02:47 PM
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I didn't really do anything different for Balance. Sometimes the maps are impossible unless you do more World zones and get Upgrades, and vice versa. I couldn't really follow the algorithms, so I just switched from World to Map and back whenever the fights got too tough. Just stick to maximizing Block and Gyms as usual and you'll do fine.
  #164  
Old 10-19-2016, 02:57 PM
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Oops - just made a mistake. Pause.

Can I revert to the last autosave game?
When I make a blatant mistake I immediately close my browser window and reopen. That's worked for me the few times it's happened, though I suppose there's the chance the autosave will fire in the interim.

You can also save the long text string that is your save file as text somewhere safe as a last backup.
  #165  
Old 10-19-2016, 02:58 PM
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Pretty much what I'm doing. It's been pretty easy and fast so far, but I had it backwards. Doing world maps increases production and sub maps decreases it. Got my second Void map a little while ago so I did the sub maps to bring up my health for that.
  #166  
Old 10-19-2016, 03:06 PM
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I finished the Scientist challenge and am about to portal and start Balance. Any suggestions? The Wiki says to run maps every level. That about right?
The thing about balance is that you want to have 250 stacks as much as possible, and the rules are that zone squares add one and map squares subtract one.

So, assuming you'll eventually need the equipment prestiges, it's generally best to do them each level on minimal sized maps, taking your stacks from 250 down to 200 or 175. Doing this twice is not nearly as bad as dropping your stacks to 150 or 125 by doing two levels worth at once.

Exception: when you do the Wall, you're going to lower your stacks by another 100, so you might want to procrastinate on doing other maps to balance things out. It's all about balance, no pun intended.

Also, if you don't have Scientist II yet, you might want to put off starting Maps until you first get to 250 stacks.

Last edited by Some Call Me... Tim; 10-19-2016 at 03:08 PM.
  #167  
Old 10-19-2016, 03:25 PM
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The Balance challenge is just a bonus He run; you don't get any new perks or anything from it and it's repeatable. So when you first get it, it's not necessarily a good idea to run it if it's going to more than double the time it takes you to get to Z40. Once you are progressed enough that you can overcome the negatives fairly easily, then it's worth it to run as long as it's taking you less than 2x the time to get to Z40 as you would without it.

A similar, but much harder challenge opens up at Z80 (Electricity). Doesn't seem remotely worth it until you are much further progressed and can get to Z80 again fairly easily.
  #168  
Old 10-19-2016, 03:26 PM
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LOL, I just got an award for dying 50 times to a single Voidimp. Nice dmg bonus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Call Me... Tim View Post
The thing about balance is that you want to have 250 stacks as much as possible, and the rules are that zone squares add one and map squares subtract one.

So, assuming you'll eventually need the equipment prestiges, it's generally best to do them each level on minimal sized maps, taking your stacks from 250 down to 200 or 175. Doing this twice is not nearly as bad as dropping your stacks to 150 or 125 by doing two levels worth at once.

Exception: when you do the Wall, you're going to lower your stacks by another 100, so you might want to procrastinate on doing other maps to balance things out. It's all about balance, no pun intended.

Also, if you don't have Scientist II yet, you might want to put off starting Maps until you first get to 250 stacks.
Thanks for the advice. Now I know what I'm doing. When I first started this run, I was doing lots of maps to bring the stacks down. Silly me.
  #169  
Old 10-19-2016, 03:29 PM
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Yeah, +250% production is so awesome you'll be able to afford the extra block to compensate for the low health.
  #170  
Old 10-19-2016, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Rigamarole View Post
The Balance challenge is just a bonus He run; you don't get any new perks or anything from it and it's repeatable. So when you first get it, it's not necessarily a good idea to run it if it's going to more than double the time it takes you to get to Z40. Once you are progressed enough that you can overcome the negatives fairly easily, then it's worth it to run as long as it's taking you less than 2x the time to get to Z40 as you would without it.

A similar, but much harder challenge opens up at Z80 (Electricity). Doesn't seem remotely worth it until you are much further progressed and can get to Z80 again fairly easily.
Yeah, but Balance seemed to me to be faster than a normal run, even right after I got it. Your mileage may vary. I haven't even tried Electricity yet, but that one doesn't have anything like the massive production bonus of Balance. I probably won't run it for quite a while, as I have a number of regular challenges queued up once I finish my current long slog to level 100. 4 levels to go.
  #171  
Old 10-19-2016, 06:07 PM
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Yeah, +250% production is so awesome you'll be able to afford the extra block to compensate for the low health.
I hit zone 25 and it's time to let the game sit and resource build so I battled it up to 250. When I come back I can always knock the stacks back down by battling a lower level map. The name "Balance" is very apt. Fun too. I'm looking forward to the extra helium.

I like how every portal and challenge makes you do things differently, tweaking this or that you didn't pay attention to much before.
  #172  
Old 10-20-2016, 01:33 PM
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Well, I made it to zone 33 this am. That's pretty fast for me, in roughly 24 hours or so. Things are slowing down now of course. Coordinations will start getting painful soon.

Zone 37 will be decision time. How much further do I want to push? Question, the He I both earn and spend doubles at zone 40 (Balance). Does that mean if I buy three Wormholes for 30 He I will have actually spent 60 He, or will I have spent 30 He and get back another 30, making them essentially free? If the latter, it'll be worth pushing to zone 45 or so.
  #173  
Old 10-20-2016, 07:55 PM
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Well, I made it to zone 33 this am. That's pretty fast for me, in roughly 24 hours or so. Things are slowing down now of course. Coordinations will start getting painful soon.

Zone 37 will be decision time. How much further do I want to push? Question, the He I both earn and spend doubles at zone 40 (Balance). Does that mean if I buy three Wormholes for 30 He I will have actually spent 60 He, or will I have spent 30 He and get back another 30, making them essentially free? If the latter, it'll be worth pushing to zone 45 or so.
Well, I don't know if calling it 'free' is quite right, but from looking at the code it appears that it adds to a pool at challengeObj.heldHelium all the applicable times you earn helium, and then gives you that much when you complete the challenge. So I think you'd get the full amount, not just a doubling of helium held on hand.

In other news I made it to level 100 in just under a week, getting ready for void maps now. I just have 4, a little below odds considering my previous deepest run was level 80 and I mostly ran with a +6.5% void map dropping heirloom equipped.
  #174  
Old 10-20-2016, 11:58 PM
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Yes, you get double the amount of He you've earned, regardless of whether or not you spend any on Collectors.

Grats on getting to Z100.. that must have been absolutely brutal at your He level. I'm now on Z82 which is the highest I've been yet.. was thinking I'd see if I could push 90 but still don't know if I'm ready for 100 yet.
  #175  
Old 10-21-2016, 08:46 AM
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Yeah, 100 was rough though I feel like guessed about right on gigastations, I had a fairly smooth curve. One last comment, with the level 100 gymystic and the block formation void maps seemed like they wouldn't be too bad; three hours of wood farming later I had the block to survive non-critical hits, and I set it to repeat void maps and slept for six hours.

I come back and I'm on the Cthulimp of the first void map- killing imps was just that slow. I just bought six hours worth of metal in weapons, hopefully things will speed up for the other three maps. Oh, and I'm regretting not having done Decay yet.
  #176  
Old 10-21-2016, 10:47 AM
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Seems like conditions always vary somewhat when I do Portals in general. I guess there's some sort of butterfly effect. Something I consider a minor adjustment early on can make things much more difficult later. I was able to do the Void maps after zone 45 before, but had to wait till 53 to do them this time around.

I'm considering doing a minimal amount of Wormholes next time around to save Helium. Collections are much bigger, only use Gems to make, and enable me to catch up on late game Coordination requirements.

Trading Bones for Heirlooms doesn't seem to amount to much considering they drop when Void maps are completed. It's like in WoW where you work your ass off to get the fat loot, then in the next expansion, the green drops make them look like Cracker Jack toys.
  #177  
Old 10-21-2016, 10:49 AM
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I come back and I'm on the Cthulimp of the first void map- killing imps was just that slow. I just bought six hours worth of metal in weapons, hopefully things will speed up for the other three maps. Oh, and I'm regretting not having done Decay yet.
If it's any consolation, Garden maps are loottype Any or Gems, so there's a high chance that even if you had gotten 25% more loot two thirds of it would have been resource types you didn't need.
  #178  
Old 10-21-2016, 10:53 AM
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Trading Bones for Heirlooms doesn't seem to amount to much considering they drop when Void maps are completed. It's like in WoW where you work your ass off to get the fat loot, then in the next expansion, the green drops make them look like Cracker Jack toys.
I guess it may be worth it in late game when you've bought everything else and would rather just buy a Magnificent heirloom than slog through a level 180+ void map.
  #179  
Old 10-21-2016, 12:30 PM
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Seems like conditions always vary somewhat when I do Portals in general. I guess there's some sort of butterfly effect. Something I consider a minor adjustment early on can make things much more difficult later. I was able to do the Void maps after zone 45 before, but had to wait till 53 to do them this time around.

I'm considering doing a minimal amount of Wormholes next time around to save Helium. Collections are much bigger, only use Gems to make, and enable me to catch up on late game Coordination requirements.

Trading Bones for Heirlooms doesn't seem to amount to much considering they drop when Void maps are completed. It's like in WoW where you work your ass off to get the fat loot, then in the next expansion, the green drops make them look like Cracker Jack toys.

Well, the only official change I know of after reset is that void maps drop rate per square can drop once your record for highest level exceeds 80.

I only bought Wormholes a few times, my lifetime Wormholed Helium is 207. Skip them once it's only a little painful to do so.

Yeah, the Imp-orts are clear winners for where to spend your first 500 bones. Anything that lasts indefinitely is going to help more than single run stuff, and as you say heirlooms will be replaced by higher quality ones soon enough. I expect to be done with all the Imp-orts well before actually getting to the top-end heirlooms.
  #180  
Old 10-21-2016, 05:47 PM
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Pumpkimps!
  #181  
Old 10-21-2016, 05:57 PM
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Are the pumpkimps a new feature for Halloween?
  #182  
Old 10-21-2016, 06:00 PM
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Are the pumpkimps a new feature for Halloween?
I assume so.

Just got another void map. Just got my gym & trainer upgrades, so I suppose...
  #183  
Old 10-21-2016, 06:47 PM
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So, for Christmas maybe there'll be Santimps that drop extra goodies.

Then Bunnyimps at Easter.
  #184  
Old 10-21-2016, 07:00 PM
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Yeah, just checked the updates page. Pumpkimps were around for a couple of weeks last year, now they're back.
  #185  
Old 10-22-2016, 04:44 PM
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SCM...T, were you able to actually complete the Frugal challenge after unlocking it? I portaled my last run as soon as I completed Z90, and am considering maybe pushing for 100 this time. But on the Wiki there are some recommended builds for running the challenge, and they use like 400-500K He. I only have 119K He earned so far, so I'm wondering if it's worth it.
  #186  
Old 10-22-2016, 10:22 PM
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SCM...T, were you able to actually complete the Frugal challenge after unlocking it? I portaled my last run as soon as I completed Z90, and am considering maybe pushing for 100 this time. But on the Wiki there are some recommended builds for running the challenge, and they use like 400-500K He. I only have 119K He earned so far, so I'm wondering if it's worth it.
Oh, yeah, it was not a particular problem with a bit less than that much, and you'll have more than that after a 100 run. I sold off some carpentry and looting etc., bought up to 20 resilience and 34 toughness. One trick is that I completed level 21 first for the Coordination before coming back to Anger. It took maybe 2 hours, if that. I did a bunch of quick challenge runs in succession, that and Scientist III (which felt wierdly similar, also no prestiges there) and Trapper and Decay. I'm tempted to start on dailies but I'm starting another deep dive now.
  #187  
Old 10-24-2016, 07:52 AM
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Pumpkin Face.
  #188  
Old 10-24-2016, 02:38 PM
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I like that some pumpkimps drop Science.
  #189  
Old 10-25-2016, 09:36 AM
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So, I did my Balance run and pushed to zone 48, then portaled and did Meditate up to 37, portaled again and now I'm doing Balance again and planning on pushing to 50 at least.

Those of you much further along, do you always buy Wormholes at 37, or is there a point when your stats are high enough to skip that?
  #190  
Old 10-25-2016, 10:51 AM
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So, I did my Balance run and pushed to zone 48, then portaled and did Meditate up to 37, portaled again and now I'm doing Balance again and planning on pushing to 50 at least.

Those of you much further along, do you always buy Wormholes at 37, or is there a point when your stats are high enough to skip that?
Once you get to 50, I'd recommend pushing all the way to 60 - at 50 you can buy Collectors, which should make the next several levels fairly easy. Plus, 60 is sort of a big deal plotwise and the Trimp challenge for Resilience is very nice.

I only bought Wormholes a few times, I always skip them now.
  #191  
Old 10-25-2016, 02:22 PM
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Yes, you definitely should be pushing to break the planet (Z60) if you can make it to 50. I would recommend the strategy of buying as many Wormholes as you can at 37, and no more after that. You probably won't even be able to afford any Collectors when you hit 50, but keep maxing out Tributes both before and after getting there so that you can buy enough of them to make it through.

Eventually yeah, you can accumulate enough Carpentry that you don't necessarily need them. I don't really like having any slowdown so I still buy a few to keep up with Coordination though, as the cost is relatively minimal and negligible in the long run (for example, just on my current run the stats show that I wormholed 283 He - but I'm up to 42.8K He earned just from the same run. Big deal).
  #192  
Old 10-25-2016, 04:54 PM
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Okay, thanks for the advice guys. This will be a nice long run for me then.
  #193  
Old 10-25-2016, 06:23 PM
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It's true that your first Collector will seem painfully expensive... but it will also be for a huge proportion of your population. It's an efficient use of resources but initially it's in such giant chunks at a time.
  #194  
Old 10-25-2016, 08:56 PM
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Yes, you definitely should be pushing to break the planet (Z60) if you can make it to 50. I would recommend the strategy of buying as many Wormholes as you can at 37, and no more after that. You probably won't even be able to afford any Collectors when you hit 50, but keep maxing out Tributes both before and after getting there so that you can buy enough of them to make it through.

Eventually yeah, you can accumulate enough Carpentry that you don't necessarily need them. I don't really like having any slowdown so I still buy a few to keep up with Coordination though, as the cost is relatively minimal and negligible in the long run (for example, just on my current run the stats show that I wormholed 283 He - but I'm up to 42.8K He earned just from the same run. Big deal).
Wow, I'm pushing for 60 for the first time this run, am currently on zone 45, have already bought the recommended 17 Wormholes, and already have 1 Coordination I'm behind on, needing 15.2K more space for. Hard to imagine getting to 50 without buying several more Wormholes. Should I have waited for a subsequent run when I had more Carpentry? I currently have Carpentry level 10.
  #195  
Old 10-26-2016, 10:19 AM
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It's not at all unusual to not be able to buy every single coordination theoretically available. There are currently 25 of them waiting for me to purchase, though at zone 111 I'm in a very different phase of the game. It comes down to whether levels take way too long to complete for your playstyle, not whether or not you can buy every coordination.
  #196  
Old 10-26-2016, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Arcite View Post
Wow, I'm pushing for 60 for the first time this run, am currently on zone 45, have already bought the recommended 17 Wormholes, and already have 1 Coordination I'm behind on, needing 15.2K more space for. Hard to imagine getting to 50 without buying several more Wormholes. Should I have waited for a subsequent run when I had more Carpentry? I currently have Carpentry level 10.
10 in Carpentry is good. A guide I saw mentioned spending half of all your He on it. I'd bet you're probably over that, even. That's a bit of a roadbump the first time pushing for 50 (and then 60), but very doable.
  #197  
Old 10-27-2016, 12:48 AM
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Is it worthwile doing a challenge? It seems to be a huge restriction on your resources, and if you succeed, you get "a perk."

What perk can I expect if I complete, say, the metal challenge?

I presume I have to spend helium to even raise it above level zero, right?

Doing the discipline challenge won't even earn a perk. What's the point of that?
  #198  
Old 10-27-2016, 01:49 AM
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Yes, basically when it says you get a perk, it means that you get the option to buy it with helium. You get another button as an option to click when you're using the portal (or using a respec.)

The value of challenges varies a lot. The first challenge available, Discipline, does give you a perk the first time you do it (the Range perk, which is a small damage bonus.) That one is nothing all that special, though once Power gets expensive it's worth it to supplement. The Artisanistry perk is gained from doing the Metal challenge, it's very nice, and after that you should think about trying the Size challenge, which gives the best perk in the early game, Carpentry. These kind of challenges are intended to be done just the once to get the perk.

Later on you'll get access to Helium Challenges, which are sort of a variant of a normal run that's a bit harder but gives more Helium. These are repeatable, intended to provide variety.
  #199  
Old 10-27-2016, 03:33 AM
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That's strange, I must have done the discipline challenge without noticing. I've got, and maxed out, the Range perk.
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Old 10-27-2016, 03:35 AM
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So, what does artisanry do for me? Or carpenrty?

Last edited by Peter Morris; 10-27-2016 at 03:37 AM.
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