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  #1751  
Old 07-27-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
I can’t read the article as I am past my monthly limit, but it wouldn’t surprise me if Republicans wanted him to stay and act as a millstone around DFLers’ necks (or just don’t want to lay down the precedent that this kind of thing should be punished). I would be more impressed by a strong show of support from the DFL.
Real people don't do that, in fact they do the opposite. Just because Franken hanging around would have been delightful for Republican national strategists is not a reason a regular person would answer the poll so strategically. Real people would generally be more disposed to an opposing member resigning, not less.
  #1752  
Old 07-27-2019, 06:02 PM
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He probably doesn't give a shit whether you're a Minnesota voter. His point was that Franken wasn't voted out and polls showed that the majority wanted him to stay.
I really give not that shit, but I do readily admit that I had not recalled Slacker was a Minnesotan voter

So to the point regarding IF he ever runs again (again, please not now) then it will be up to the voters in MN to decide, including Slacker's one vote input, if they, in aggregate, think his baggage is disqualifying or not.

I don't give a shit about it but clearly Slacker gives so much shit about it that we need a plunger, so my apologies, I guess.
  #1753  
Old 07-27-2019, 06:12 PM
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So virtually all Minnesota Republicans said he should resign, and virtually all DFLers that he should not? I am almost the only DFLer who saw it as Schumer, Gillibrand, et al did? I rather doubt that.

ETA: As an active DFLer, my input should be more than “one vote”. Particularly since I would not vote for a Republican opponent and would not wish to see a divisive DFL primary.

Last edited by SlackerInc; 07-27-2019 at 06:15 PM.
  #1754  
Old 07-27-2019, 06:57 PM
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Furthermore, everyone who opines about presidential candidates also only has “one vote”, and if they don’t live in a swing state it doesn’t count for much. That should not be the standard for weighing in.
  #1755  
Old 07-27-2019, 06:58 PM
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So virtually all Minnesota Republicans said he should resign, and virtually all DFLers that he should not? I am almost the only DFLer who saw it as Schumer, Gillibrand, et al did? I rather doubt that..
Wtf? Is that a response to me? I said "generally more disposed" not "you are all partisan zombies".
  #1756  
Old 07-27-2019, 10:09 PM
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ETA: As an active DFLer, my input should be more than “one vote”. Particularly since I would not vote for a Republican opponent and would not wish to see a divisive DFL primary.
Your input should be as much as any other member of the Minnesota DFL, which is one vote. And the only way to avoid a "divisive" primary is for a candidate to be unopposed.
  #1757  
Old 07-27-2019, 10:21 PM
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Fair enough. I don't think there needs to be a "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard for a firing or a loss of an opportunity, but there still should be a presumption of innocence. Why should any accuser have a presumption in his or her favor?

And I further have a problem with convicting, firing, or otherwise taking action against someone based upon uncorroborated allegations. Why believe person X instead of person Y? I understand that means that some sexual assaults will go unpunished, but what is the alternative? Having a society where I can get you fired or put you in prison by finding a single person who can tell a story which does not defy the laws of physics and is therefore "credible"?

I think that is simply an astounding proposition in any country that values freedom.
So let’s say that you are looking for a babysitter, and there a rumors that the teenager down the street has smacked a few kids for no reason whatsoever. No hard evidence, just some people saying what they heard.

You still hire that babysitter in the name of “valuing freedom?”
  #1758  
Old 07-28-2019, 05:33 PM
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So let’s say that you are looking for a babysitter, and there a rumors that the teenager down the street has smacked a few kids for no reason whatsoever. No hard evidence, just some people saying what they heard.

You still hire that babysitter in the name of “valuing freedom?”
That's a poor analogy: the job of babysitter is to be alone with vulnerable persons who would be helpless to defend themselves from attack.

The job of Senator is to be in the company of a bunch of other Senators who are, by law, adults.

A better analogy: would you hire the teenager about whom rumors have been floated to a road-cleaning crew made up of adults? .....Well, you might, since you might suspect that the rumors were invented and spread by malicious persons. And after all, the teen won't be alone with vulnerable persons at any point. So why not let the teen demonstrate good character, if he or she can do so?
  #1759  
Old 07-28-2019, 07:17 PM
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It wasn't an analogy. Ravenman was just challenging how far he was willing to go for "freedom" when it was actually a personal decision.

Last edited by CarnalK; 07-28-2019 at 07:18 PM.
  #1760  
Old 07-28-2019, 07:32 PM
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He probably doesn't give a shit whether you're a Minnesota voter. His point was that Franken wasn't voted out and polls showed that the majority wanted him to stay.
Yes. In addition to Schumer selling out Franken for political expediency, he screwed over Minnesota's voters in his major role of making sure the investigation by the ethics committee wasn't conducted. No wonder the public disapproves of Congress as much as they do.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 07-28-2019 at 07:33 PM. Reason: clarity
  #1761  
Old 07-29-2019, 12:49 AM
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I'm a Minnesota voter. I voted for Al both times he ran.

I'm ready to say that he's done his penance for his sins and I would absolutely vote for him again. I'm not at any point going to agree that he has to be permanently banned from politics for this.

I don't like this modern, social media idea that once someone has done something wrong, no matter what it was, their only recourse is to retreat into a life of shame and never be heard from again. Hell, if Smirky McLawsuit came out ten years from now and said "I'm older now, I can see where my behavior was wrong and I apologize for it", I'd be willing to give him another chance.
  #1762  
Old 07-29-2019, 02:43 AM
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That kid may be the world’s biggest douchebag all the rest of the time (I don’t know one way or the other), but I don’t see him as having done anything wrong on that video.
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