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Old 08-14-2019, 08:53 PM
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Biggest Band Drop-off After One Quits/Fired


A single member. Band name remains.

Doesn't have to be a band - could be a long-time guitarist of a solo artist.

The first name that comes to my mind is Roger Waters, but I'm sure I'll think of others.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:01 PM
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Blood, Sweat & Tears after Al Kooper left.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:01 PM
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Well, when Dave lombardo left slayer, that first album without him was meh, and this was coming off one of their best albums ever. However, I'm not sure how much its mehness was due to him leaving. They've been kinda meh since then even though he has come back.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:07 PM
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The first name that comes to my mind is Roger Waters, but I'm sure I'll think of others.
Really? I would have thought more Pink Floyd fans preferred the first post-Waters Pink Floyd album, A Momentary Lapse of Reason, to the last album pre-Waters' exit, The Final Cut, which was essentially a Roger Waters solo album. A Momentary Lapse of Reason was a fairly mixed album, but it did have a few brilliant moments. I'm not sure The Final Cut had any.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:17 PM
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Apparently, I see these bands way too often.

Had tickets for the Doors, Jim Morrison died, and they toured without him. I thought, hey, I love Ray Manzarek's organ work, Robby Kreiger can play guitar, I'll still go. If they'd just done a jazzy instrumental set, I'd've been happy. But they had some bloated no-name trying to sound like Morrison. Painful.

Then I saw Blood, Sweat & Tears... well, David Clayton-Thomas wasn't there (turns out he'd quit). Again, somebody tried to sound like him. Unsuccessfully, natch.

I'm assuming it was the last tour for both bands.

(Now, if only BS&T had re-hired Al Kooper and Steve Katz and gone back to the jazz-rock fusion of that first lineup...)
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:29 PM
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Evanescence kinda tanked after the guy that wrote all the songs left/got kicked out by Amy Lee. They went from world tour to tumbleweeds.
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:00 PM
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The James Gang without Joe Walsh.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:25 PM
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The Attractions (better known as "Elvis Costello's Band") minus Bruce Thomas, who put the "power" in "power pop" and whose bass parts were in many cases the definitive hook of EC's songs. There isn't a single thing Costello recorded after that which even remotely approaches the level of musical engagement that The Attractions had. He did, at least, do the honorable thing by not billing the group as The Attractions after Thomas was out - acknowledging that he could not be replaced.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:18 AM
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Genesis lost their unique sound after Steve Hackett left in 1977. They had already made two good Genesis albums without Peter Gabriel: A Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering, both from 1976. Everyone has always made a big deal of Gabriel's split from Genesis, but they came back strong without Gabriel; it was the loss of Hackett that precipitated their sudden drop-off in quality.
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:06 AM
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Really? I would have thought more Pink Floyd fans preferred the first post-Waters Pink Floyd album, A Momentary Lapse of Reason, to the last album pre-Waters' exit, The Final Cut, which was essentially a Roger Waters solo album. A Momentary Lapse of Reason was a fairly mixed album, but it did have a few brilliant moments. I'm not sure The Final Cut had any.
The Final Cut was fine for what it was: The Wall, part 2, with more Roger Waters whinging about how bad war is.

A Momentary Lapse of Reason was (to me at least) a breath of fresh air. Less edgy, more introspective and thoughtful.
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:27 AM
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Really? I would have thought more Pink Floyd fans preferred the first post-Waters Pink Floyd album, A Momentary Lapse of Reason, to the last album pre-Waters' exit, The Final Cut, which was essentially a Roger Waters solo album. A Momentary Lapse of Reason was a fairly mixed album, but it did have a few brilliant moments. I'm not sure The Final Cut had any.
Weird. The Final Cut remains one of my favourite albums, above Dark Side. A Momentary Lapse of Reason one of my least favourite, basically a David Gilmour solo album (someone who's not very productive). And its the opinion of most of the PF fans I know.

The lack of just David Gilmour did make The Division Bell a much better one. Almost a Floyd tribute act, made with contributions from Floyd fans.

Let's face it Animals, Wish You Were Here and The Wall were pretty much Roger Water's solo albums.

Final Cut brilliant moments? Southampton dock? The gunners dream? Paranoid eyes? Two suns in the sunset has dated though.

AMLOR? A bunch of Floyd B sides with lyrics written by a child? Some stuff on a boat for about five minutes? Learning to fly?
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:31 AM
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I'd say Cliff Burton from Metallica to me is the one who is most striking once pointed out.

He brought the proggy elements to Metallica, and not just him, I think he inspired the rest to do more with their talents.

His contribution to And Justice For All was clearly there, so still kind of one of his albums, though I'd love to heard the remixed version where they actually mixed in Newsteads bass playing to make it like the album it should have been, rather than the tinny half album it was.

After that, they put out an almost Metallica tribute album without the "love" in the black album, and that was that.
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Old 08-15-2019, 05:48 AM
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This is my personal opinion and will get controversial.

While Rainbow had Ronnie James Dio I felt every album got better and better. Once Dio left Ritchie Blackmore took the band through pop-metal, AOR and empty classical rock work outs with some highlights along the way but... The end was a mercy killing.

The controversial bit comes with I have never appreciated Ozzy Osbourne's talents. As such I always felt Black Sabbath were musically and lyrically a largely talent free zone - and I DON'T expect many, if any, will agree with that. However I thought the two studio albums Dio did with Black Sabbath were absolutely fantastic. A perfect mix of muscle and melody. Black Sabbath then sunk back without a trace when Dio left. That's my opinion anyway.

It was disappointing for me that as a solo artist Dio never quite seemed to hit the spot again. I was happy for the 'Dragons and Kings' lyrics to stay. He could still sing great, had an ear for melody. Even had decent guitarists on board but... Dio albums sound too amateur for me. Parts are good but there isn't a whole.

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Old 08-15-2019, 06:30 AM
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AMLOR? A bunch of Floyd B sides with lyrics written by a child? Some stuff on a boat for about five minutes? Learning to fly?
I like TFC as well - it's tied for my second favorite musically with Obscured By Clouds and The Wall.

But the opening three tracks to AMLoR is one of the better Floyd sequential tracks around. They just blend together. Of course The Wall and DSotM have better sequences but compared to every non-Floyd band, the flow is quite excellent.
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:06 AM
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Maybe 10000 Maniacs after Natalie Merchant left. A band (such as it is these days) with the same name still tours and releases stuff, but I don't know anyone who actually cares.
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:27 AM
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Weird. The Final Cut remains one of my favourite albums, above Dark Side. A Momentary Lapse of Reason one of my least favourite, basically a David Gilmour solo album (someone who's not very productive). And its the opinion of most of the PF fans I know.

The lack of just David Gilmour did make The Division Bell a much better one. Almost a Floyd tribute act, made with contributions from Floyd fans.

Let's face it Animals, Wish You Were Here and The Wall were pretty much Roger Water's solo albums.

Final Cut brilliant moments? Southampton dock? The gunners dream? Paranoid eyes? Two suns in the sunset has dated though.

AMLOR? A bunch of Floyd B sides with lyrics written by a child? Some stuff on a boat for about five minutes? Learning to fly?
<thumbs up>
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:48 AM
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I'll also add

Peter Green leaving Fleetwood Mac
Peter Gabriel leaving Genesis
Roger Hodgson leaving Supertramp
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:11 AM
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The Doors after Jim Morrison quit this life, hence the band as well.

ETA: I see digs beat me to it.

Last edited by RTFirefly; 08-15-2019 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:28 AM
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Van Halen after Dave Lee Roth left.

Might as have called it Eddie Bought A Keyboard. And it fully being his band now, he completed full tribute to Montrose, the band he wanted to be, by hiring Sammy Hagar, the lead singer of Montrose.

Then strived to be nothing like Montrose anymore, and just write sappy keyboard based songs about love and naming albums after Hilarious acroynms (sarcasm).
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:36 AM
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The Attractions (better known as "Elvis Costello's Band") minus Bruce Thomas, who put the "power" in "power pop" and whose bass parts were in many cases the definitive hook of EC's songs. There isn't a single thing Costello recorded after that which even remotely approaches the level of musical engagement that The Attractions had. He did, at least, do the honorable thing by not billing the group as The Attractions after Thomas was out - acknowledging that he could not be replaced.
Ninjaed. I find it humorous that he switched to calling his band "The Imposters," but it's accurate.

Costello has never been a guitar whiz, so Steve Nieve's keyboards and Thomas' bass were the main sound of the band. The bass part on "This Year's Girl" depresses me whenever I try to play it myself.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:50 AM
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Spinal Tap after Nigel Tufnel left. They were reduced to doing jazz fusion instead of heavy metal until he rejoined the band.

Fleetwood Mac got so much better after Peter Green left. AMLOR is a better album than TFC.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:53 AM
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Apparently, I see these bands way too often.

Had tickets for the Doors, Jim Morrison died, and they toured without him. I thought, hey, I love Ray Manzarek's organ work, Robby Kreiger can play guitar, I'll still go. If they'd just done a jazzy instrumental set, I'd've been happy. But they had some bloated no-name trying to sound like Morrison. Painful.
They actually put out a good album without him -- the aptly named Other Voices. The album is uneven, but so are all the albums with Morrison (though their best with him was better).


After the great 12 Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus everyone but the drummer and organist for Spirit remained. They added a couple of musicians, but their album Feedback was a big drop-off and the group's worst up to that point.

The Who was never the same after Keith Moon left. It was forewarned: check out the lettering in front of Keith in Who Are You
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:58 AM
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Queensryche went into an immediate nosedive leading to its inevitable implosion after Chris DeGarmo left the group.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:22 AM
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Spinal Tap after Nigel Tufnel left. They were reduced to doing jazz fusion instead of heavy metal until he rejoined the band.
I enjoyed their new direction...
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:23 AM
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It's less iconic, but the Gin Blossoms - who I really like - never really recovered after Doug Hopkins died. He was the main hitmaker in the band and they got one more record to market and sort of petered out.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:28 AM
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Maybe 10000 Maniacs after Natalie Merchant left. A band (such as it is these days) with the same name still tours and releases stuff, but I don't know anyone who actually cares.
This is what I came to post. Post-Merchant, they had one... well, not "hit" but song you maybe heard on the radio, which was a cover of "More Than This" and I have no clue what they've been up to since then despite them still being around.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:35 AM
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Peter Gabriel leaving Genesis
No. Genesis came back strong without Gabriel and made two more good albums. It was only after Steve Hackett left that they suddenly dropped off.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:38 AM
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The Final Cut is the worst aspects of Waters. it's all anger with no balance from Gilmour to tone it down, to bring it back to listenability. DSotM is saying the same thing (I hate the world because it killed my daddy!) but it does it so much better.

DSOtM is subtle. TFC is "fuck you Reagan and Thatcher!". But The Gunner's Dream is up there as one of their best songs ever, and the title song is one of my personal favorites. Not Now John isan OK song, but it is just Waters being angry again, this time about the film version of The Wall.

I always thought AMLoR was Pink Floyd lite. No Roger anger, but no Roger talent, either. The Division Bell to me is the best post-Waters Floyd. It sounds almost like a PF album. What Do You Want From Me and Keep Talking are just about indistinguishable from their best earlier stuff.

But then, I love Gilmour's first solo album, and hated all of Waters', so take that for what it's worth.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:40 AM
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[continuation of hijack-in-progress]

As a long-term Pink Floyd fan, I am amazed at the outpouring of love for The Final Cut. I rank it absolutely dead last of all the Pink Floyd albums, finding it unlistenable for the most part. Be that as it may, it's not because the loss of Roger Waters wasn't a near-mortal blow for Pink Floyd; it was. But Waters by himself, without the chemical balance of Gilmour and the others, wasn't up to Pink Floyd standards either (and certainly not on TFC). I love The Wall, also, btw. Somehow the pain and misery in that works, and works powerfully, with beautiful and delicate and soul-gripping angst, whereas in the subsequent Final Cut it comes across and petulant and polemical. (The only track on the whole album I can bear to listen to is the short but moving "One of the Few")


ETA: dammit, Just Asking Questions...
[/hijack cont.]

Last edited by AHunter3; 08-15-2019 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:40 AM
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I enjoyed their new direction...
You and three other people.

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Old 08-15-2019, 09:42 AM
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The world of country-folk-rock is full of these questions.

Like the quality of different Byrds lineups. The effect of Gene Clark leaving the band, then the firing of Clarke and Crosby (and Jim McGuinn's exile to Rio)... and was the band and the genre ever the same after Gram Parsons died?

Eagles, Flying Burrito Brothers, New Riders of the Purple Sage all had similar personnel changes.

Then there was Poco.

The original core of Furay, Young and Messina post-Buffalo Springfield was great, and Deliverin' is one of the highest-energy live albums I've ever heard. The addition of Paul Cotton was brilliant, but the loss of Richie Furay (their self-styled leader) was a huge change*.

*Many thought that'd be the end of Poco, but as it turned out, Rusty Young was the backbone of the group.
Hmmm, that could be another thread: "Bands that survived/thrived as long as one member stayed".
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:09 AM
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Van Halen after Dave Lee Roth left.
Seconded. Wouldn't catch no DLR screeching out no stinkin' loooourrvve ballad. Band went from streety scroggin & fightin to … whatever poseur crap Hagar drones on about. Barph.
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[continuation of hijack-in-progress]

As a long-term Pink Floyd fan, I am amazed at the outpouring of love for The Final Cut. I rank it absolutely dead last of all the Pink Floyd albums, finding it unlistenable for the most part. Be that as it may, it's not because the loss of Roger Waters wasn't a near-mortal blow for Pink Floyd; it was. But Waters by himself, without the chemical balance of Gilmour and the others, wasn't up to Pink Floyd standards either (and certainly not on TFC). I love The Wall, also, btw. Somehow the pain and misery in that works, and works powerfully, with beautiful and delicate and soul-gripping angst, whereas in the subsequent Final Cut it comes across and petulant and polemical. (The only track on the whole album I can bear to listen to is the short but moving "One of the Few")[/hijack cont.]
If you haven't already, check out Nick Mason's Fictitious Sports album. When Syd left, Nick took over as the voice of surrealism in the band. Gilmour is a guitar master and would probably be totally comfortable in a society in which folks communicate with strings rather than voices--Simply magical, etc. gush, etc.--but very, very Serious. The Damned wanted Syd to produce their second album because they wanted to move in a more psychedelic direction. Pink Floyd's management advised them, "Syd isn't well (he's back at the hotel). But here's good old David Gilmour. He'll give your record what it needs." Despite the first 7 seconds of the album sounding exactly like the first 7 seconds of Interstellar Overdrive, The Damned were not entirely thrilled with the experience. I can totally see Mason & Gilmour constantly checking each others' more over the top self indulgences (Gilmour's work in Berlin's Pink & Velvet is allegedly a tiny snippet of a heavenly hour long rambling solo he gifted to Berlin to use as they saw fit in the song). Evidently, they are ALL given to navel gazing, and they failed to check Waters before he managed to crawl all the way into his own backside and get lost in The Final Crack Cut

Last edited by Inigo Montoya; 08-15-2019 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:21 AM
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Pink Floyd is my favorite band ever, but I don't like AMLOR and TDB at all.
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:22 AM
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Johnny Marr leaving The Smiths.

Much of the attention was focused on Morrissey but the reality is that it was Marrs work that made the sound of the band.

Morrissey has always been something of a prima donna and imposed his own view of the bands direction with little consideration for the views of Marr.

Marr went on to his own solo career, so did Morrissey but I get the impression that Marr is the happier person - but that's almost a given.


I'd pay to see a Marr gig, I would not do the same for Morrissey
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:28 AM
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The J Geils Band was on top of the world in the early 80s. Peter Wolf left, they put out one more crappy album and then sank so fast their noses are probably still bleeding.
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:44 AM
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As a long-term Pink Floyd fan, I am amazed at the outpouring of love for The Final Cut. I rank it absolutely dead last of all the Pink Floyd albums, finding it unlistenable for the most part. Be that as it may, it's not because the loss of Roger Waters wasn't a near-mortal blow for Pink Floyd; it was. But Waters by himself, without the chemical balance of Gilmour and the others, wasn't up to Pink Floyd standards either (and certainly not on TFC). I love The Wall, also, btw. Somehow the pain and misery in that works, and works powerfully, with beautiful and delicate and soul-gripping angst, whereas in the subsequent Final Cut it comes across and petulant and polemical. (The only track on the whole album I can bear to listen to is the short but moving "One of the Few")
It is perhaps the subject and the politics, which rings much truer with a son (me) of the Shipyards, just shut on the Clyde, getting namechecks, and the full scale asset stripping of the country by Thatcher in full flow at that time, leaving the regions and the industry to die.

Dictators (Pinochet) deals as their lone ally in South America on her all or nothing gamble on a war in a forgotten colonial island, saving her from the fact she'd ran the country into the ground over a four year period and was about to lose an election. Marching the poor to their deaths so she can get reelected.

It rings true to certain parts of the UK. I can see why it doesn't ring true for the rest of the world, the same way a Tory voter in London might listen with bafflement and wonder who's complaining about the wonderful boom going on down there.

I completely get why you wouldn't like it.

It wasn't for you. It was for the likes of me....
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:48 AM
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Let's face it Animals, Wish You Were Here and The Wall were pretty much Roger Water's solo albums.
I don't agree with this at all. In fact, I would cite Wish You Were Here and "Dogs" from Animals as prime examples of the band working collaboratively together, with more balanced input from each member. The Wall is when it starts becoming much more of a Roger Waters enterprise, with more outside session musicians being used. I prefer the band's earlier stuff to The Wall.
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AMLOR? A bunch of Floyd B sides with lyrics written by a child? Some stuff on a boat for about five minutes? Learning to fly?
While I find Roger Waters' lyrics overly-negative, I appreciate that he's a better lyric writer than the other band members. A Momentary Lapse of Reason certainly suffers a drop in lyric quality, but I'm someone who focuses on the music, and doesn't pay so much attention to the words being sung.
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:51 AM
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...but it did have a few brilliant moments. I'm not sure The Final Cut had any.
As a long Floyd fan, I respectfully felt the opposite . MLoR felt to me much more simplistic and trite than any previous Floyd, it really suffered for loss of lyrical and compositional complexity, Gilmour struggles on his own writing anything beyond simple rhyming couplets. I loved Final Cut and found it dense and layered, it had some dud spots with little more than being spoken word passages, but then The Wall also had the same proportion. Final Cut mostly lacked any kind of stand-out single.
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:57 AM
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I don't know if this fits the thread exactly, but the loss of Tom Johnston from the Doobie Brothers allowed Michael McDonald to completely ruin the band's musical style.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:02 AM
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Mick Jones leaving the Clash. This is the objectively correct answer.

I find both TFC and MLOR unlistenable. Clearly it was the creative tension between Gilmour and Waters that made the band great.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:10 AM
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I don't agree with this at all. In fact, I would cite Wish You Were Here and "Dogs" from Animals as prime examples of the band working collaboratively together, with more balanced input from each member.
I'll give you Wish You Were Here, song and album, but Animals as an album was mostly Waters, and Dogs is clearly a Waters song as the rest, with Gilmour contributions (probably the solos), almost like the Final Cut.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:12 AM
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The Stranglers without Hugh Cornwell
10,000 Maniacs without Natalie Merchant.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:14 AM
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Ok, to underline the end of this, it's a divisive issue whether Waters leaving was problematic for Floyd, it was for some, not for others.

However, I'd say Wright and Mason leaving the bands songwriting credits to disappear into drugs after Wish You Were Here, might be just as valid a point...
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:24 AM
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I'll give you Wish You Were Here, song and album, but Animals as an album was mostly Waters, and Dogs is clearly a Waters song as the rest, with Gilmour contributions (probably the solos), almost like the Final Cut.
Early versions of Animals' "Dogs" and "Sheep" date from 1974, well before the band was Waters-dominated - here's an early version of "Dogs". Roger Waters may have wrote the lyrics to "Dogs", but the song is over seventeen minutes long, and majority-instrumental, with the instrumental parts being collaborative.
  #45  
Old 08-15-2019, 11:28 AM
Horatio Hellpop is offline
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Big Brother and the Holding Company are still touring and releasing CDs. I would not know this without Wikipedia. Janis Joplin quit the band a couple years before she died.

I assumed Lowell George's death was the crippling blow to Little Feat; in fact, half the band bailed on him a few months earlier and he was struggling to keep the band together right up until his death. They regrouped 8 years afterwards and had one pretty impressive hit circa 1990. They still tour.

Last edited by Horatio Hellpop; 08-15-2019 at 11:30 AM.
  #46  
Old 08-15-2019, 12:11 PM
Gatopescado is online now
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Rush was never the same after the new guy replaced John Rutsey.
  #47  
Old 08-15-2019, 12:26 PM
Treppenwitz is offline
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Dr Feelgood were a shadow of their former selves without Wilko.

And, as an opinion on Pink Floyd seems to be obligatory - I don't like anything they did after Syd Barrett left. So there.

j

PS: apart from Shine On, obviously.
  #48  
Old 08-15-2019, 12:57 PM
KneadToKnow is offline
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I love Prince, but I don't even pretend to enjoy the stuff he did after Wendy & Lisa left as much as what he did with them in the band.
  #49  
Old 08-15-2019, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
The Who was never the same after Keith Moon left.
Absolutely right. IMO he was the star of the band, and the only reason listened to them. (Still do.)
  #50  
Old 08-15-2019, 01:54 PM
journeyman_southpaw is offline
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Iron Maiden in the '90s when lead singer Bruce Dickinson left for a solo career. It's not really Blaze Bayley's fault that the songwriting is so uninspired on those two albums, but the older Maiden songs just weren't a good match for Blaze's vocal range when playing live.
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