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  #851  
Old 03-04-2019, 04:54 PM
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Boy, it's a good thing this Board didn't exist when Return of the Jedi came out so we couldn't nitpick the nine (count 'em) cuts to Darth Vader watching Palpatine shock Luke before finally deciding whose side he was on.
Meh, it is the same thing. One is comfortable with one's group, and it takes a bit for one to realized that values shared with others are wrong.
  #852  
Old 03-04-2019, 11:28 PM
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Boy, it's a good thing this Board didn't exist when Return of the Jedi came out so we couldn't nitpick the nine (count 'em) cuts to Darth Vader watching Palpatine shock Luke before finally deciding whose side he was on.
I'll happily nitpick anything, and I believe criticism of RotJ is a thing.

Still, I would not compare one hammy scene to making a character inconsistent.
  #853  
Old 03-05-2019, 12:13 AM
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I have gone on record repeatedly on the Dope referencing my utter loathing of RotJ.

Elendil's Heir, that Stross book sounds great! The premise at least.
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  #854  
Old 03-05-2019, 01:36 AM
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I'm softening my expectations for this show and trying to grade it more like a comfortable TNG homage rather than wanting it to be more groundbreaking sci-fi. This last two parter would've made a good TNG set of episodes, and on that basis it was pretty entertaining. I said the astrology people episode would've been a mediocre episode of TNG, and this last few episodes would've been very good episodes of TNG. I'm happy enough with that.

I noticed on the IMDB page, in two episodes the plot description is: "Lasting Impressions The crew opens a time capsule from 2015. "

That has the potential to be way too self indulgent and anvilicious. I'm almost pre-cringing.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 03-05-2019 at 01:36 AM.
  #855  
Old 03-05-2019, 02:47 AM
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2015 (rather than say 2018) is a hilarious and very telling date to pick.

"All the World is Birthday Cake" is still their best episode. Still available to rewatch for free on Yahoo View for a couple more days!
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  #856  
Old 03-05-2019, 08:33 AM
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I have gone on record repeatedly on the Dope referencing my utter loathing of RotJ.
Return of the Jedi is not a terrible movie the way the prequels are, but it's not great, and is a huge step down from the previous two films. That's quite fair to say, I would think. It merits criticism.
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  #857  
Old 03-05-2019, 08:42 AM
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Return of the Jedi is not a terrible movie the way the prequels are, but it's not great, and is a huge step down from the previous two films. That's quite fair to say, I would think. It merits criticism.
ROtJ is two movies, a good one and a prequel-level of suck one, mixed together. The good one has Luke's journey to becoming a real Jedi (how he handles the situation with Jabba, ending the emperor and Vader). The bad one involves those damn teddy bears and jub-jub and speeder bikes that exist only for the video games (just like to pod race) and the slapsticky ending of Boba Fett.

I haven't rewatched it since the 90s. But it doesn't suck like The Phantom Menace sucks.
  #858  
Old 03-05-2019, 08:53 AM
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I like the props they gave to the original star wars with the x wing fighters. I was waiting for Gordon to say "Red Wing Leader checking in"
Actually Gordon made a "Top Gun" joke as he shot out of the Krill cruiser.

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  #859  
Old 03-05-2019, 08:53 AM
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...Elendil's Heir, that Stross book sounds great! The premise at least.
You are wise to draw that distinction. It's a very cool premise; as literature, I thought, it fell short.

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...I noticed on the IMDB page, in two episodes the plot description is: "Lasting Impressions The crew opens a time capsule from 2015. "....
Perhaps that might better have been a boxed spoiler?
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Old 03-05-2019, 09:15 AM
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I would love that! And then someone can say, "You do a really good Brian, sir."
Even better:

Ed and Bortus walk onto the bridge, talking:

Bortus: "...nevertheless, I fail to see the humor in either a talking baby or a talking dog."

Ed: "Really? I love that kind of thing."

Gordon: "Hey guys, what's up?"

Ed: "I was just telling Bortus about those old Look Who's Talking movies."

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I half-expected the Krill commander to look around and say, "Well, we drove off the Kaylons, and now Earth doesn't seem all that well-defended, does it? Hmm. What an interesting opportunity...."
Only useful if you're sure your mutual enemy is fully defeated. Otherwise your side ends up much weaker when the next assault comes.
  #861  
Old 03-05-2019, 04:12 PM
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I hope the rest of the season is better. And I hope the rest of the season isn't about bortis.

I'd like to see more episodes about Isaac and his home planet if possible. That'd be interesting. How they turned into machines, who built them, how they've evolved, etc.
Hahahaha. I think deep down inside I suspected what was going to happen. Either the Kaylon moved to a new planet and started their own civilization or they replaced their biological creators.
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  #862  
Old 03-05-2019, 07:56 PM
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I'm always interested in arguing about Star Wars, LOL; but since it's a hijack I'm going to spoiler box the topic:

SPOILER:

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Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
ROtJ is two movies, a good one and a prequel-level of suck one, mixed together. The good one has Luke's journey to becoming a real Jedi (how he handles the situation with Jabba, ending the emperor and Vader). The bad one involves those damn teddy bears and jub-jub and speeder bikes that exist only for the video games (just like to pod race) and the slapsticky ending of Boba Fett.

I haven't rewatched it since the 90s. But it doesn't suck like The Phantom Menace sucks.

For me it does suck worse than TPM, and the Jabba/Emperor/Vader stuff are actually the worst parts. Especially Emperor/Vader.

And "Revenge of the Sith" is actually a good movie, other than the one horribly cringey "Noooo!" But that's one brief cheesy moment in a two hour film.



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You are wise to draw that distinction. It's a very cool premise; as literature, I thought, it fell short.

Ah, interesting. Maybe he should have tried to find a writing partner. I have thought of doing that myself, as I have a bunch of what I think are really cool premises/outlines for hard SF stories, but although I consider myself a good nonfiction/op-ed type writer, I suck at writing dialogue or evocative descriptions. (I would have been fine in the 1950s, LOL, when that was par for the course in SF.)


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Perhaps that might better have been a boxed spoiler?

Cosigned. Every time the issue of next episode previews has come up on any forum I've participated in, there's a solid contingent (but probably not a majority) who agrees with us (I avoid all previews like the plague, and I'm guessing you do the same?), while everyone else is kind of baffled that it's even an issue. Even if we're outnumbered, hopefully the spoiler box allows everyone to be happy? It would be much appreciated.
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  #863  
Old 03-05-2019, 11:36 PM
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As to Revenge of the Sith, my dear SlackerInc, you'll like this: https://starwarsfans.fandom.com/wiki...ke_of_the_West
  #864  
Old 03-06-2019, 07:47 AM
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Cosigned. Every time the issue of next episode previews has come up on any forum I've participated in, there's a solid contingent (but probably not a majority) who agrees with us (I avoid all previews like the plague, and I'm guessing you do the same?), while everyone else is kind of baffled that it's even an issue. Even if we're outnumbered, hopefully the spoiler box allows everyone to be happy? It would be much appreciated.
Bleh. If you want to consider something that has already been aired on TV as part of the latest episode as a "spoiler", perhaps you should wait until the season is over to read threads. Or until the series is cancelled. If it's been broadcast as far as the International Date Line, it's fair game for discussion IMHO.
  #865  
Old 03-06-2019, 07:56 AM
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Bleh. If you want to consider something that has already been aired on TV as part of the latest episode as a "spoiler", perhaps you should wait until the season is over to read threads.
Except we're talking about the episode two weeks from now, not about something that has already aired.
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:06 AM
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Except we're talking about the episode two weeks from now, not about something that has already aired.
SlackerInc said "next episode previews", and in combination with his request from last week it's clear that he's referring to the 30 second preview that airs over the credits at the end of the episode. And when you're speculating what's going to happen next week, I think anything that's aired is fair game.

That's quite different from Elendil Heir's request of spoiler tags for out-of-band info on future episodes.
  #867  
Old 03-06-2019, 10:50 AM
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Except we're talking about the episode two weeks from now, not about something that has already aired.
Maybe if someone has actual inside information about the episode, then spoiler-box it.

But for the one-line episode descriptions from IMDB, or information in commercials or "Tune in Next Week!" previews? I think spoiler boxes are absurd for public-domain stuff like that.
  #868  
Old 03-06-2019, 10:51 AM
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I'm actually normally one of the people who requests that people spoiler box the previews for upcoming episodes. It's like how movie trailers give away most of the plot these days - trailer and previews are created by marketing teams, not the people who wrote the show, and so they're not very careful not to reveal plot information and spoil the episode. I always avoid "next week on..." previews and generally try to avoid trailers for movies I plan to see.

It just didn't occur to me that in this particular case a description of a part of a plot unrelated to anything we've seen so far could be considered a spoiler. If the description of a future episode was "The Kaylon regroup and prepare to attack the Union again", I could totally see why that would be spoilery, because that would give away a significant plot point with the overall season arc, I just didn't think a vague description like "the crew finds a time capsule" could merit being a spoiler, since it very likely has no bearing on anything we've seen or any ongoing plotlines, and is only a vague description of the episode.

That said, no problem, I'll spoiler box it if I list descriptions from future episodes again.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 03-06-2019 at 10:52 AM.
  #869  
Old 03-06-2019, 12:09 PM
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If the description of a future episode was "The Kaylon regroup and prepare to attack the Union again"
Speaking of the Kaylon and upcoming episodes, it occurred to me that it would be a really interesting plot point if the Krill warped out of Earth space, and went straight to Kaylon and exterminated them... in Avis' name, leaving Isaac really, truly alone, and leaving Grayson and Malloy to deal with the idea that they basically set up a genocide.

Not that I really think the Orville will get quite so heavy (that seems almost Babylon 5 level heavy).
  #870  
Old 03-06-2019, 12:41 PM
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So the Krill religion state that all non-Krill are soulless (you know, like robots), and we were told (implied to?) that the Krill didn't become super fanatical until after they made it into interstellar space. Presumably that means there are still plenty of Krill who are not xenocidal nutbags.

My prediction is that the war against the Kaylon will become a kind of holy war for the Krill and that some yet-unrevealed moderate Krill leaders (the Krill commander from this episode, maybe Teleya) will use it as a path towards coexistence with the rest of the galaxy.
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:54 PM
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I could go for that. Roughly analogous to the unaggressive renegade Borg of some later ST episodes.
  #872  
Old 03-07-2019, 05:53 AM
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So the Krill religion state that all non-Krill are soulless (you know, like robots), and we were told (implied to?) that the Krill didn't become super fanatical until after they made it into interstellar space. Presumably that means there are still plenty of Krill who are not xenocidal nutbags.

My prediction is that the war against the Kaylon will become a kind of holy war for the Krill and that some yet-unrevealed moderate Krill leaders (the Krill commander from this episode, maybe Teleya) will use it as a path towards coexistence with the rest of the galaxy.
Every society has it's heretics and atheists.
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  #873  
Old 03-08-2019, 12:05 AM
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Well, this latest one might have been somewhat derivative, but overall I thought it was a tense and enjoyable hour.
  #874  
Old 03-08-2019, 01:34 AM
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Every society has it's heretics and atheists.
And the Krill even have "progressive" factions in their leadership. Also it looks like the Union may get it's very own Maquis.

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Old 03-08-2019, 09:11 AM
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So, did I miss what they did with explosive girl? Seems to me, they should have handed her over.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:39 AM
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So, did I miss what they did with explosive girl? Seems to me, they should have handed her over.
I think she exploded?
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:51 AM
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So, did I miss what they did with explosive girl? Seems to me, they should have handed her over.
Yeah, that was a bit of a mess. When last seen they had flooded her compartment with N2 to keep her from spontaneously exploding, and set up a force field in case she did anyway. There was no follow up.
  #878  
Old 03-08-2019, 10:29 AM
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It was a nitrogen purge, not flood.

I assumed she was pretty safely imprisoned. I was a little surprised that there was no mention at all of her fate.
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:33 AM
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Yeah, that was a bit of a mess. When last seen they had flooded her compartment with N2 to keep her from spontaneously exploding, and set up a force field in case she did anyway. There was no follow up.
Contact with N2 is what makes the blood explode. So they purged the N2 from her cabin. Presumably they added helium or something other noble gas to replace the N2.

I'm very annoyed they decided to muddle the difference between plasma as in "the liquid that blood is comprised of" and "a conductive ionized gas".
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:49 AM
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In any case she's dead, either exploded or handed over to be killed by Krill (who may go and kill all of her race as a preventative measure).
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:57 AM
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It was a nitrogen purge, not flood.

I assumed she was pretty safely imprisoned. I was a little surprised that there was no mention at all of her fate.
Presumably she was given to the Krill. There may not be an extradition treaty between the Union and the Krill (and there's gotta be a better collective name) but there's no reason not to hand over a criminal, especially since I got the impression her species wasn't part of the Union. Explain everything, point out that Orin is dead, and get on with the difficult business of peace.
  #882  
Old 03-08-2019, 12:01 PM
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It was a nitrogen purge, not flood.
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Contact with N2 is what makes the blood explode. So they purged the N2 from her cabin. Presumably they added helium or something other noble gas to replace the N2.
Whoops; thanks for the correction. Too bad they didn't follow on with a scene after the N2 had been replaced with helium; her yelling at the crew in a high, squeaky voice would have been a perfect bit of Macfarlanesque humor.

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I'm very annoyed they decided to muddle the difference between plasma as in "the liquid that blood is comprised of" and "a conductive ionized gas".
So, what was in the container was a plasma plasma?
  #883  
Old 03-08-2019, 12:14 PM
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I liked the episode, but the whole bit with Talla delaying the Krill diplomats was just dumb. That's the kind of thing that kills peace treaties to begin with - there's a reason that diplomatic immunity exists. Intentionally insulting the Krill representatives would pretty much wipe out any possibility of negotiations.

And why would they give the Envall to the Krill? The Krill specifically said they didn't want her, and the Krill would just torture her to death. Just keep her & either return her to her home planet, or imprison her if you think that's warranted.

Last edited by muldoonthief; 03-08-2019 at 12:15 PM.
  #884  
Old 03-08-2019, 12:27 PM
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The Krill didn't want her because they didn't know she was directly involved with the attacks. The Union would have to explain why they weren't handing over the prisoner and that explanation would likely have included her part in it.

Last edited by CarnalK; 03-08-2019 at 12:28 PM.
  #885  
Old 03-08-2019, 12:32 PM
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I liked the episode, but the whole bit with Talla delaying the Krill diplomats was just dumb. That's the kind of thing that kills peace treaties to begin with - there's a reason that diplomatic immunity exists. Intentionally insulting the Krill representatives would pretty much wipe out any possibility of negotiations.
That part bothered me too. Just put them in the briefing room and have them cool their heels there if you need more time. I think they were going for humor, but I don't find much to laugh about with urine samples and cavity searches.
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Old 03-08-2019, 02:27 PM
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Well, this latest one might have been somewhat derivative, but overall I thought it was a tense and enjoyable hour.

The big problem with the show is that on the one hand it is trying to be derivative, parody-ing Trek and other SF shows but on the other hand wants to be a fairly serious original show on it's own, and ends up being neither fish nor fowl.
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:22 PM
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It's not parody. They've added some goofy humor to the formula and dialed back the nobleness of the main characters but that doesn't make it parody.
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:30 PM
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What puzzled me -- did Orrin even know there was that no-hostilities thing going on at the time he exploded those ships? He'd been held in a clearly not-nice prison for 20 years at that point. For an escaping POW to commit crimes against his captors on the way out of their territory... Isn't that pretty much to be expected?
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:11 PM
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What puzzled me -- did Orrin even know there was that no-hostilities thing going on at the time he exploded those ships? He'd been held in a clearly not-nice prison for 20 years at that point. For an escaping POW to commit crimes against his captors on the way out of their territory... Isn't that pretty much to be expected?
I believe instructions give to US servicemen during the Vietnam war was to not kill anyone during an escape, for if you were recaptured, they would be very, very pissed off.
  #890  
Old 03-08-2019, 05:18 PM
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Nice epi. Two small things:

now that they have stun guns, there's no reason to hold a gun on someone dangerous. Once you got the drop, stun them.

And- there are no shockwaves in space.

But I didnt see the twist coming for a bit. I knew there was gonna be one, but I wasnt sure.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:51 PM
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There is also no sound in the vacuum of space - a mistake that almost every show/movie makes.
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:01 PM
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I believe instructions give to US servicemen during the Vietnam war was to not kill anyone during an escape, for if you were recaptured, they would be very, very pissed off.
I always wondered how Steve McQueen got away with killing that dispatch rider in The Great Escape.

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  #893  
Old 03-08-2019, 10:07 PM
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The big problem with the show is that on the one hand it is trying to be derivative, parody-ing Trek and other SF shows but on the other hand wants to be a fairly serious original show on it's own, and ends up being neither fish nor fowl.
I have the same observation. They can't really do both. It's hard to take an interstellar war seriously when the combatants are sipping soda and making dumb jokes.
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  #894  
Old 03-08-2019, 10:21 PM
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It was a nitrogen purge, not flood.
"Nitrogen purge" is a somewhat ambiguous phrase - it often means "use a lot nitrogen to remove (purge) moisture" but in this case it meant "remove the nitrogen" (https://nigen.com/what-is-nitrogen-p...dure-services/).

I think explodey girl will be in a later episode
  #895  
Old 03-08-2019, 11:52 PM
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This was, by far, the most TNG-esque episode of the series. All of the cinematography and cinematic language matched TNG exactly. How they moved the camera, when they did close ups, the dramatic swells as they cut to commercial (even using the same fade to black technique), the locations, the sets, the camera angles. It's clear that the design and production team features people who grew up on TNG and really loved it, because they've lovingly recrafted it precisely. The director must've really pushed for it.

The story was very TNG too. Big stake negotiations, a mysterious character asking for asylum, a lot of examination of different character's perspectives, and moralizing. I couldn't stop thinking about it during the whole episode, how much they recreated it perfectly.

I was shakey in my commitment to this show early in the season, but they've really hit their stride and now it strikes my pleasant nostalgia more than any nitpicking I feel compelled to do. It's such an amazing homage while still retaining its own personality.
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Old 03-09-2019, 12:00 AM
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That part bothered me too. Just put them in the briefing room and have them cool their heels there if you need more time. I think they were going for humor, but I don't find much to laugh about with urine samples and cavity searches.

Yeah, that was bad. I like the kind of humor of "pee corners" and "See, that's what we were telling you about". Or even the amputated leg. But this crossed a line.

Overall, I thought this was one of the worst episodes of the series, certainly of the season (I'm fuzzy on last season), along with "Ja'loga" and the porn virus one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Kabong View Post
Whoops; thanks for the correction. Too bad they didn't follow on with a scene after the N2 had been replaced with helium; her yelling at the crew in a high, squeaky voice would have been a perfect bit of Macfarlanesque humor.

You're right: that is a great idea! A missed opportunity.
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  #897  
Old 03-09-2019, 12:08 AM
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Oh, and that instrument that Talla plays is a fantastic sci-fi gadget idea. It made me wish they'd make something like a real version of that.

I feel like Talla has really come into her own, and now I prefer her over Alara. Alara's naivety and underconfidence never really felt right for a chief of security on a ship. We had a couple of episodes about it, and it felt like it was pretty mined out already. In comparison, Talla's no nonsense cynical confidence is refreshing. She feels much more like someone who could organize the security of a ship.
  #898  
Old 03-09-2019, 01:14 AM
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Oh, and that instrument that Talla plays is a fantastic sci-fi gadget idea. It made me wish they'd make something like a real version of that.

What, an electronic keyboard that produces holograms? I wouldn't hold my breath. (Unlike the STTNG rollable keyboard, which is now mundane.)
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Old 03-09-2019, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
This was, by far, the most TNG-esque episode of the series. All of the cinematography and cinematic language matched TNG exactly.
Interestingly, though they have had TNG people involved in many aspects of the show, in this case the director was Rebecca Rodriguez, who is Robert Rodriguez's sister. She's new to directing, and has no connection with TNG. Good job by her to recreate the language of the show so accurately.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
Oh, and that instrument that Talla plays is a fantastic sci-fi gadget idea. It made me wish they'd make something like a real version of that.
Well it's very similar to the holophonor on Futurama. And that probably wasn't the first such device either.

That said, it sounded nice. At one point I thought the girl was some kind of savant and I was looking forward to hearing her bust out a tune.
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