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  #651  
Old 06-12-2019, 01:09 PM
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[Moderating]

Does this work for everyone?
  #652  
Old 06-12-2019, 01:55 PM
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I don't really understand the point versus just creating a new thread and linking to it, but I guess I don't care either way.
  #653  
Old 06-12-2019, 02:46 PM
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[Moderating]

Does this work for everyone?
Fine by me. Thanks Chronos.

You can please all of the people some of the time, and you can please some of the people all of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
  #654  
Old 06-12-2019, 02:49 PM
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Fine by me. Thanks Chronos.

You can please all of the people some of the time, and you can please some of the people all of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
Who is John Lydgate?
  #655  
Old 06-12-2019, 09:20 PM
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Suits me, thanks. Will the James part eventually drop off?
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:03 AM
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I'll probably leave it on, because there will be some folks who start from the first page, which is all about Holzhauer.

And yeah, I would have thought a new thread would make more sense, too, but this is what folks seemed to want.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:31 AM
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Also, if there is a Tournament of Champions this year (it's usually around November), I expect him to be there and there will be quite a lot of interest in watching his performance. And Jeopardy! may do a special tournament with him and Ken Jennings (and perhaps Brad Rutter?).
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:43 PM
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Tournament Teen just gave question where the answer is "vague" as "What is vaag?" Must be a word he has only encountered in print?
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:21 PM
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Does anyone happen to know when we'll start seeing shows that were recorded after James Holzhauer's run started being broadcast? In other words, with players who have seen him play on air, not just in the studio, and may try to emulate his tactics? Will we have to wait for the start of the new season?
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:30 PM
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Does anyone happen to know when we'll start seeing shows that were recorded after James Holzhauer's run started being broadcast? In other words, with players who have seen him play on air, not just in the studio, and may try to emulate his tactics? Will we have to wait for the start of the new season?
I suspect many will try, but few will succeed. I also doubt the average contestant will have the cojones to risk it.
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:49 PM
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Yeah, and I agree with those who have made the point that the strategy is wildly risky unless you have extremely strong trivia knowledge like James does. If you are closer to average (in Jeopardy terms), I don't think it's the optimal way to play.
  #662  
Old 06-20-2019, 08:18 PM
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Today's news said James Holzhauer made a pancreatic cancer donation in Alex Trebek's name. It was $1,109.14, an amount he used during the show. Surely he could have donated more, but it was a nice gesture. I imagine he's getting lots of similar requests from now on.
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Old 06-21-2019, 02:56 AM
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That amount is his daughter's birthday.
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Old 06-26-2019, 05:25 PM
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Jackson on today's show really has panache. Kentucky must be a different place than I imagine it to be, if a teen like him can thrive there.
  #665  
Old 06-26-2019, 06:29 PM
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Some "interesting" answers/questions in the Teen Tournament. For instance, when the question was supposed to be "What is the Lotus position?" the guy said "What is Crisscross Applesauce?" I don't remember what it was, but a girl gave a similarly--uh--"quirky" answer to something last night.
  #666  
Old 06-26-2019, 06:44 PM
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Some "interesting" answers/questions in the Teen Tournament. For instance, when the question was supposed to be "What is the Lotus position?" the guy said "What is Crisscross Applesauce?" I don't remember what it was, but a girl gave a similarly--uh--"quirky" answer to something last night.
I remember one girl got away with "ankylosaurus" when she should have said "stegosaurus." (She didn't win.)
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Last edited by terentii; 06-26-2019 at 06:45 PM.
  #667  
Old 06-26-2019, 07:14 PM
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Ankylosaurus isn't a bad answer - they definitely have plates on their back, and the tail clubs on some specimens are arguably spiked.

The really weird answers came in Final, where two of them guessed that the first three Presidents of Canada were US born. (Granted one changed it to the Philippines, which was also wrong, but...Jesus. I don't even know where to start on where that goes wrong.)
  #668  
Old 06-26-2019, 11:37 PM
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Agonizing tiebreaker today. All about the signaling, boo.
  #669  
Old 06-27-2019, 11:04 AM
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I guess the clue was "This country's first three Presidents were born in the US"? I don't know for sure, but my first two guesses would be Israel and Liberia.
  #670  
Old 06-27-2019, 11:11 AM
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First eight presidents. From the J! Archive, "This nation's 1st 8 presidents were all born in the U.S.; the 1st local-born president came in 1884, 37 years after independence."
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Old 06-27-2019, 12:20 PM
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OK, in that case, my answer would definitely have been Liberia.
  #672  
Old 06-27-2019, 05:47 PM
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Agonizing tiebreaker today. All about the signaling, boo.
I feel really bad for the kid that lost the tiebreaker. I was watching the show recorded on my DVR, and when it got to the end of the recording the freeze frame on my screen was Alex shaking the other kid's hand and the kid that lost was hunched over with his hands in his hair and a look of "Why?!" on his face.

And, yeah, it was a 'gimme' clue so whichever one timed their signal press best was going to win.
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Old 06-29-2019, 02:06 AM
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Pretty good finals for the Teen Tournament. I saw some of the contestants from this week posting in the Jeopardy subreddit and they seemed to be having a lot of fun and were excited about that tiebreaker game from the semifinals.

I was very impressed by the performance of the contestant that was only in 8th grade. Speaking of, I think the following post was in reference to him:

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Tournament Teen just gave question where the answer is "vague" as "What is vaag?" Must be a word he has only encountered in print?
I noticed in one of the final games, he similarly pronounced the word "plague" with a 'short a' sound, like 'flag' but with a p.

It made me think of Britta from Community: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwSej13LRpE
  #674  
Old 06-29-2019, 02:41 AM
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I feel really bad for the kid that lost the tiebreaker. I was watching the show recorded on my DVR, and when it got to the end of the recording the freeze frame on my screen was Alex shaking the other kid's hand and the kid that lost was hunched over with his hands in his hair and a look of "Why?!" on his face.

And, yeah, it was a 'gimme' clue so whichever one timed their signal press best was going to win.

Yup And he was so delightfully jaunty.

Couldn't they offer a tougher clue at least?

Last edited by SlackerInc; 06-29-2019 at 02:45 AM.
  #675  
Old 06-29-2019, 05:31 PM
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Yup And he was so delightfully jaunty.

Couldn't they offer a tougher clue at least?
Yes; for a tiebreaker question, there should be some "knowledge factor." It shouldn't have been pure muscle-fiber twitch speed, as it was with this one.
  #676  
Old 07-01-2019, 06:45 AM
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Some "interesting" answers/questions in the Teen Tournament. For instance, when the question was supposed to be "What is the Lotus position?" the guy said "What is Crisscross Applesauce?" I don't remember what it was, but a girl gave a similarly--uh--"quirky" answer to something last night.
My daughter just turned 16. When she was in elementary school, any time there was some sort of presentation and they wanted the kids to sit, cross-legged and quietly, on the floor, the teachers would announce "Criss cross applesauce."

I assume the teachers in his school did that, too.
  #677  
Old 07-01-2019, 08:36 AM
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Yes; for a tiebreaker question, there should be some "knowledge factor." It shouldn't have been pure muscle-fiber twitch speed, as it was with this one.
I look at the tie breaker as a random coin flip. They have an allotted amount of time for the show's content and don't want to exceed it since exceeding it means sacrificing ad revenue. They don't want to take the risk that both contestants miss the tie breaker. People complain similarly about unfairness in the NFL's overtime rules, but my opinion is that you had your chance to win outright during the rest of the game. Now the game needs to be over in a short time. Same for Jeopardy.
  #678  
Old 07-01-2019, 09:01 AM
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Was the kid who mispronounced vague and plague the same one who said he watched Walker: Texas Ranger with his father? I wonder if he was home schooled?
  #679  
Old 07-01-2019, 06:59 PM
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They don't want to take the risk that both contestants miss the tie breaker. ...
That does make sense.
  #680  
Old 08-14-2019, 05:38 PM
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Why does Francois look so familiar? This is a teacher tournament, not a TOC. Does he just have “one of those faces”?
  #681  
Old 08-14-2019, 05:41 PM
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Why does Francois look so familiar? This is a teacher tournament, not a TOC. Does he just have “one of those faces”?
I thought this TT was a rerun?

If it isn't, I'd better start watching.
  #682  
Old 08-14-2019, 05:58 PM
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I thought this TT was a rerun?

If it isn't, I'd better start watching.
It's all reruns for the next few weeks. Season 36 is scheduled to begin on September 9.
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:13 PM
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Ah, that would explain it! Thanks.
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Old 09-22-2019, 03:24 AM
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So there’s a new champion making a big run. I don’t find him as appealing as James, but he’s fine.

Did anyone notice the weird wagering this past week when the guy in second place after Double Jeopardy was only slightly behind the champion and they both got final Jeopardy wrong? The second-place guy lost most of his total, and the champion survived, albeit with a small amount of winnings for the day. I don’t remember the exact “rules”, but I thought when you are 90% to 95% as big a stack as the leader, you just wager enough to beat him or her by $1 if they wager nothing. Which also makes you likely to win if you both get it wrong, because it is too risky for the leader to not bet enough to cover you in case you do bet it all.

I also noticed they are hyping a tournament of champions this season, with James back already to face 14 other champions. I wonder if this current guy will be one of them.

And how do you make 15 players produce three finalist spots, anyway?
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:21 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni76sXhYo8Y

they've already taped this year's tournament of champions and the current guy isn't in it

15 players play 5 games

the 5 winners plus the 4 non-winners with the highest total advance to the next round

those 9 then play 3 games, and the three winners of those are finalists
  #686  
Old 09-22-2019, 08:49 AM
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The name of the current champion is Jason Zuffranieri and he's not in the Tournament of Champions (list of participants here) because, as I understand the rules, only those who ended their runs during last year's season qualify. He started his run during last year's season and had he lost before the last episode, he would be in the tournament, which is scheduled to air November 4-15, 2019. Instead, presumably he will be in the tournament in 2020, unless fifteen others do better than him (unlikely) or they don't have a tournament.

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 09-22-2019 at 08:50 AM.
  #687  
Old 09-22-2019, 09:16 AM
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This was a clue from the first week

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Amateur astronomers know of the 5 planets that can be seen with the naked eye, this is the farthest from the Sun
http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=6412

The question is "What is Saturn"

But aren't there 6 planets that can be seen with the naked eye? Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn... and Earth?
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  #688  
Old 09-22-2019, 10:09 AM
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This was a clue from the first week



http://www.j-archive.com/showgame.php?game_id=6412

The question is "What is Saturn"

But aren't there 6 planets that can be seen with the naked eye? Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn... and Earth?
By either way of reckoning, Saturn is not the farthest. Uranus is a sixth magnitude object; if conditions are right, you can see it with the naked eye. I know, because I've done it.
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  #689  
Old 09-23-2019, 10:34 AM
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I'm not the kind to say "I told you so," but...

Wait a minute. Yes I am!

I TOLD YOU SO!

The new champ, Jason Zuffranieri, has now won over $400,000 in 15 shows, and is #5 on the all-time Jeopardy! earners list. As I predicted, he has followed James H's technique of going for the bottom two rows first, to build up a sizable pot before hitting the DDs and putting himself out of reach of the other two contestants.

Jason didn't start using the technique in earnest until game seven, and he doesn't have the incredible range of knowledge that James did, so he hasn't been quite as dominant as James. He's had a few close calls. But in 10 of his 15 games he had a lock going in to FJ.

I think this is a sign that, as I expected, the Holzhauer technique can be useful even without James' huge knowledge base, and that it will soon become a common practice for Jeopardy! contestants.

Last edited by commasense; 09-23-2019 at 10:35 AM.
  #690  
Old 09-23-2019, 11:28 AM
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I'm not the kind to say "I told you so," but...

Wait a minute. Yes I am!

I TOLD YOU SO!

The new champ, Jason Zuffranieri, has now won over $400,000 in 15 shows, and is #5 on the all-time Jeopardy! earners list.
No idea what you told us so but Jason is behind only Ken Jennings and James Holzhauer in terms of regular season winnings.
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Old 09-23-2019, 01:56 PM
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No idea what you told us so but Jason is behind only Ken Jennings and James Holzhauer in terms of regular season winnings.
As for his standing, I got my info from a CNN story from last Friday, that stated: "That puts him at #5 on both the all-time earnings list (he's netted $418,343 so far) and the all-time consecutive games list." That was correct for regular season play when they reported it, but they mistakenly called it all-time earnings, and I repeated that error without checking. My apologies.

And yes, I should have highlighted my prediction, which was somewhat buried in the linked post:
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Once we start getting contestants who have actually seen James' performance on shows that have aired, more of them may attempt his technique of working across the bottom rows to build an early commanding lead, instead of working up or down the categories as Emma and her opponents tended to do in the post-James games.

Of course, this plan requires 1) a better-than-(Jeopardy)-average level of knowledge, 2) the guts to bet boldly on the DDs, and 3) the all-important quick button finger, but I hope we see more people trying it.
I expanded on the prediction in several subsequent posts:
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In 1968, when Dick Fosbury examined the physics of the high jump and came up with the Fosbury Flop, a brand new style of jumping no one else had ever conceived of, he smashed existing records and won gold at the Olympics. Other competitors didn't take it up "robotically" because it was stylish, but because it was successful. It's how all high jumpers have jumped ever since.

I think the Holzhauer strategy is analogous to the Fosbury Flop, and potentially more revolutionary than you're giving it credit for. I believe it could become a new standard because, with a little luck, it may give players with less voluminous knowledge than James, Brad, and Ken enough of an edge to have longer-than-average runs. I strongly suspect we will start seeing this when players who have watched most or all of James' run on TV get their chance to play. We may not see lots of people winning 30+ shows -- that takes the one-in-a-million level of knowledge -- but I think we'll see more people winning between 10 and 20 games by following the Holzhauer method.
Emphasis mine. Jason is the first in this trend I predicted, and he could go on to hit 30 or more wins.
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My point is that I believe that Holzauer's strategy may revolutionize Jeopardy! play for the same reason the Fosbury Flop revolutionized the high jump: it has the potential to help even lesser players improve their performance over any of the other techniques. It may not become as ubiquitous as the Fosbury Flop did it its field, but I expect to see a lot more of it.

If it turns out not to be all that helpful, if really strong knowledge is more important, then maybe it won't become as common as I am predicting. We shall see.

Last edited by commasense; 09-23-2019 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 09-23-2019, 04:28 PM
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By either way of reckoning, Saturn is not the farthest. Uranus is a sixth magnitude object; if conditions are right, you can see it with the naked eye. I know, because I've done it.
I don't want to see Uranus. Now, or at any time.
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Old 09-23-2019, 07:13 PM
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I don't want to see Uranus. Now, or at any time.
'Rim'Shot

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Old 09-24-2019, 05:35 PM
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I don't want to see Uranus. Now, or at any time.
At least not with my naked... anything.
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Old 09-24-2019, 10:49 PM
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Does everyone agree with me though that Jason should already be gone, if that one challenger had used basic correct Final Jeopardy betting strategy?


Quote:
Originally Posted by commasense View Post
I'm not the kind to say "I told you so," but...

Wait a minute. Yes I am!

I TOLD YOU SO!

The new champ, Jason Zuffranieri, has now won over $400,000 in 15 shows, and is #5 on the all-time Jeopardy! earners list. As I predicted, he has followed James H's technique of going for the bottom two rows first, to build up a sizable pot before hitting the DDs and putting himself out of reach of the other two contestants.

Jason didn't start using the technique in earnest until game seven, and he doesn't have the incredible range of knowledge that James did, so he hasn't been quite as dominant as James. He's had a few close calls. But in 10 of his 15 games he had a lock going in to FJ.

I think this is a sign that, as I expected, the Holzhauer technique can be useful even without James' huge knowledge base, and that it will soon become a common practice for Jeopardy! contestants.

I wonder if they will give up trying to advise contestants to go through the categories in order. Or maybe they will change the rules and require them to.


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni76sXhYo8Y

they've already taped this year's tournament of champions and the current guy isn't in it

15 players play 5 games

the 5 winners plus the 4 non-winners with the highest total advance to the next round

those 9 then play 3 games, and the three winners of those are finalists

Makes sense, thanks. Interesting that in most of the first round matches, typically only one player will be eliminated from contention, and it’s even possible for no one to be eliminated. It’s like that first round is just to weed out the weakest champions.

Last edited by SlackerInc; 09-24-2019 at 10:51 PM.
  #696  
Old 09-25-2019, 09:25 AM
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Does everyone agree with me though that Jason should already be gone, if that one challenger had used basic correct Final Jeopardy betting strategy?
I have only watched a few since Jason started. (My comments above were based on looking at his performance on the J!Archive.) Can you tell us which game you're referring to, either by date or the name of the player?

Quote:
I wonder if they will give up trying to advise contestants to go through the categories in order. Or maybe they will change the rules and require them to.
Why in Og's name do you think they would or should do that?
  #697  
Old 09-25-2019, 09:43 AM
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Does everyone agree with me though that Jason should already be gone, if that one challenger had used basic correct Final Jeopardy betting strategy?
There was one game, I think last week, where everyone got Final Jeopardy wrong and he ended up winning with "only" $5,000 or so. He could easily have been eliminated.

BTW, his total just exceeded $500,000 and he is averaging about $28,000 per game.

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 09-25-2019 at 09:44 AM.
  #698  
Old 09-25-2019, 10:06 AM
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There was one game, I think last week, where everyone got Final Jeopardy wrong and he ended up winning with "only" $5,000 or so. He could easily have been eliminated.
Specifically, it was the game that aired on Sept. 17. Here is the recap on The Jeopardy! Fan website.

Jason and his nearest competitor, Colin Kennedy, were very close going into FJ. Jason had $23,000, Colin had $20,300. The third contestant, Helen Lyons, was in a distant third with $5,400.

In that situation, the smart play for Helen would be to bet $0, hoping that Jason and Colin both bet big to try to cover each other, and both get it wrong. Instead, she bet everything she had.

As it happened, all three of them got FJ wrong. Jason ended up with $5,300. Had Helen bet nothing, she would have won the game by $1,000. Instead, she ended up in third place, and Jason continued his winning streak.

Final Jeopardy betting can be so important!
  #699  
Old 09-25-2019, 10:56 AM
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commasense is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAtoz View Post
As it happened, all three of them got FJ wrong. Jason ended up with $5,300. Had Helen bet nothing, she would have won the game by $1,000. Instead, she ended up in third place, and Jason continued his winning streak.
I think you mean $100?
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:29 PM
MrAtoz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commasense View Post
I think you mean $100?
I certainly do. Thanks for the catch.

I told you math was important!
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