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  #151  
Old 09-03-2019, 08:03 AM
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I think the point is that there were no good guys. Starlight is probably the only real good guy, with Hughie coming in a distant second. This is about bad people taking down worse people.
MM seems like a decent enough human being.

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As for Translucence, I think they had to go very, very deep to get that bomb to work. And while I know they were going for effect, it shouldn't have blown him up like it did, instead just destroyed his insides. His skin should have held him mostly intact and he shouldn't have sprayed everywhere. But expecting consistency in a superhero universe is a fool's errand.
I thought the same thing; it should have just blown guts out his orifices. That said, the manner in which he exploded wasn't a stupid inconsistency; it was deliberately a parallel to what happened to Robin, a visual cue that Hughie was engaging in an act of revenge and in so doing had the blood on his own hands.

NITPICK: "Translucent," not "translucence."

The cool thing about the series, of course, is the fact that it's the most realistic portrayal of what a world with superheroes would be that I've ever seen. Ofr course they'd be dicks.

The fact Vought creates the superheroes kind of robs the series of what would be one of its most interesting question; if superheroes were naturally occurring, would Vought not maybe be doing the world a favor? They seem to keep superheroes under some degree of control; they're dicks, but if they were just running free of any sort of obligation they might be WAY worse dicks. Homelander is legitimately a terrifying thing; it's like if Superman were Zod and there wasn't a good Superman to stop him. All superheroes could be tyrants. They'd rule the normal people.
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  #152  
Old 09-03-2019, 08:30 AM
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The cool thing about the series, of course, is the fact that it's the most realistic portrayal of what a world with superheroes would be that I've ever seen. Ofr course they'd be dicks.
I think it also shows a nice progression as Vought gets their shit together with regards to raising them. From complete psychopath literally grown in a lab Homelander, to more normal douchebaggery like The Deep and A-Train which mostly mirrors spoiled celebrities and sports stars, to just a basic decent human in Starlight. Given a normal upbringing they can turn out ok.
  #153  
Old 09-03-2019, 08:51 AM
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I liked the show, bit every time I see this thread title I hear/see that damned volleyball scene from Top Gun.
  #154  
Old 09-03-2019, 09:04 AM
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I have not read the comics but this is probably one of the most realistic portrayals of how supers would probably act if they really existed. Power corrupts and absolute power would corrupt absolutely.
That always sounds so hifalutin'. The real big problem, and one which this series does touch up on, is that power doesn't make you less of an imbecile if you happen to be one.
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  #155  
Old 09-03-2019, 10:26 AM
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That's true. But power DOES corrupt.

Consider Homelander. Every single human being on the planet today has to respect authority to SOME degree because, ultimately, you can be imprisoned or killed. Even dictators can find themselves on the wrong end of the gun or the noose if they don't make enough people in their circles happy. All of us, every person who has ever lived, has their own physical vulnerability to consider in our behaviour with other people. Even the powerful, or else they end up like Julius Caesar, Muammar el-Quaddafi, or Benito Mussolini.

But Homelander, from what we have been told, is totally invulnerable; he has no weakness of any kind. Not even Superman's weaknesses of kryptonite and loved ones you could hurt. Nothing is stopping him from treating the human race like ants. It is hardly unsurprising he is a total sociopath, and his reputation, which his ego values, is really the only limitation on his behaviour. His power makes him hold everyone in contempt, value human life not at all, and commit hideous acts just for the hell of it. He is a billion times likelier an outcome of Godlike superpowers than is Superman.
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  #156  
Old 09-03-2019, 10:27 AM
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I was at DragonCon this weekend and went to The Boys panel with Karl Urban and Jack Quaid. And they indicated that Season 2 was going to be a good deal more fucked up than Season 1. So we got that going for us.
  #157  
Old 09-03-2019, 12:17 PM
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...

The cool thing about the series, of course, is the fact that it's the most realistic portrayal of what a world with superheroes would be that I've ever seen. Ofr course they'd be dicks.
....
Why? Not every King or US President has been a dick. I mean, yes, Power corrupts- some.

MM?

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  #158  
Old 09-03-2019, 07:32 PM
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Why? Not every King or US President has been a dick. I mean, yes, Power corrupts- some.

MM?
Mother's Milk. The prison worker with a daughter. His buddies call him MM.

Kings and Presidents haven''t always been dicks, no. But... I mean, no offense, but didn't I already write about that? They can't be too dickish or someone hangs them. A head of state is powerful but he can stiil be sent to prison or shot. There is a limit on anyone's power. Even a king. Ask Louis XVI or Charles II. Even Kim Jong-Un has to keep his inner circle generals happy to some extent or they''ll arrange a little accident. He's flesh and blood.

There is no check on Homelander's power, and not much on other superheroes.
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  #159  
Old 09-03-2019, 07:58 PM
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Question without names because it's been a few weeks and I'm terrible with names:

The drug used to control the supes is blue, right? And in one scene, the lady boss paints her nails blue and then basically snuggles Homelander like a baby, right? And he's sucking on her nails or something?

I kept expecting that to come up, like she was drugging him through her nail polish, but nothing ever happened with it.
  #160  
Old 09-03-2019, 08:51 PM
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The drug doesn't control them, it makes them and boosts their power.
  #161  
Old 09-03-2019, 09:36 PM
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I was at DragonCon this weekend and went to The Boys panel with Karl Urban and Jack Quaid. And they indicated that Season 2 was going to be a good deal more fucked up than Season 1. So we got that going for us.
I hope not.
  #162  
Old 09-04-2019, 04:45 AM
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I was at DragonCon this weekend and went to The Boys panel with Karl Urban and Jack Quaid. And they indicated that Season 2 was going to be a good deal more fucked up than Season 1. So we got that going for us.
That's good news, I think. And I'm tired of the comics' readers constantly telling the show's fans that the comics are much more fucked up than the show, drop it already.
  #163  
Old 09-04-2019, 05:10 AM
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The cool thing about the series, of course, is the fact that it's the most realistic portrayal of what a world with superheroes would be that I've ever seen. Ofr course they'd be dicks.
But haven't comics always said that? I mean, there have always been far more supervillains that superheroes - otherwise, who would the heroes fight each month? The majority of people gifted with superpowers have always tended toward a life of crime or assholery, and the actual heroes have always been the exception. The only difference in this series is that 99% of people with powers are dicks, instead of, like, 80%.
  #164  
Old 09-04-2019, 07:34 AM
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That's true. But power DOES corrupt.

() Homelander, from what we have been told, is totally invulnerable; he has no weakness of any kind. Not even Superman's weaknesses of kryptonite and loved ones you could hurt. Nothing is stopping him from treating the human race like ants. It is hardly unsurprising he is a total sociopath, and his reputation, which his ego values, is really the only limitation on his behaviour. His power makes him hold everyone in contempt, value human life not at all, and commit hideous acts just for the hell of it. He is a billion times likelier an outcome of Godlike superpowers than is Superman.
Would Homelander have been less of an asshole if he'd just been a normal jerk with normal amounts of power? The consequences of his actions would have been smaller, but he wouldn't have been less of a jerk. How much of his being a jerk is birth factors and how much comes from being raised in a glass jar is a different question, but if there was as direct a correlation between power and being a jerk as some people insist, no ruler would ever have been a decent person and no janitor would have been a jerk.
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  #165  
Old 09-04-2019, 07:39 AM
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Having to feel the consequences of your actions from childhood is key to teaching you not to be a jerk. As someone with limitless power, he suffers the least in terms of consequences.
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  #166  
Old 09-04-2019, 09:22 AM
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Would Homelander have been less of an asshole if he'd just been a normal jerk with normal amounts of power? The consequences of his actions would have been smaller, but he wouldn't have been less of a jerk. How much of his being a jerk is birth factors and how much comes from being raised in a glass jar is a different question, but if there was as direct a correlation between power and being a jerk as some people insist, no ruler would ever have been a decent person and no janitor would have been a jerk.
Homelander is not a "jerk." A jerk is a human being who acts in a mildly antisocial manner. Frankly, almost everyone is a jerk sometimes. Homelander isn't even really human.

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But haven't comics always said that? I mean, there have always been far more supervillains that superheroes - otherwise, who would the heroes fight each month?
I'm not sure... is that really true? Some superheroes certainly have had to battle a rogue's gallery; I can't even name all of Batman or Spider-Man's rivals. It seems, though, that the number of heroes is equally vast. My wife and I were having trouble keeping track of them all as as MCU lurched into "Endgame," and basically they were all fighting one villain, Thanos. I don't know if anyone has ever done a count, or if that's even possible.

In general, in both the DC and Marvel universes, the rationale behind a "supe" being a hero or villain is individual. Bruce Wayne became Batman because he saw his parents killed by a criminal; Magento became a villain because people were mean to mutants like him. Heroes become villains and villains become heroes, depending on the soap opera needs of producing comic books for years on end. What sets "The Boys" apart (well, others have done this a bit too) is that the state of superheroes is presented largely not as being a case of their individual origin stories but from the idea that being an asshole is inherently what would happen if you had superpowers.
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  #167  
Old 09-04-2019, 09:40 AM
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the idea that being an asshole is inherently what would happen if you had superpowers.
"Superpowers" being a stand-in for any kind of societal power, like wealth or celebrity or political power or access to the means of physical coercion. In this case, it's combined with all of them, because superheroes are part of a successful entertainment-type industry.
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  #168  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:13 AM
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Not to hijack too much, but is anyone else wondering about Season 4 of "Stranger Things" when seeing Homelander's upbringing in the lab?
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:45 AM
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That's good news, I think. And I'm tired of the comics' readers constantly telling the show's fans that the comics are much more fucked up than the show, drop it already.
Yeah, I read a few of the comics, i dont want to see that.
  #170  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:59 AM
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Yeah, I read a few of the comics, i dont want to see that.
I read several collected volumes. I don't want to see that on TV either.
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  #171  
Old 09-06-2019, 10:30 AM
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I have no idea what nor where wing spars are. And going by his explanation, it's possible Homelander didn't either.
...
Big airplanes do have a few fitting locations (3 - 4 typically) allowing them to be put on large jacks with their landing gear hanging freely off the ground. The entire weight of the airplane rests on these jack fittings. A supe, or a couple of supes, could support the airplane at these points without causing the airplane to crumple. However, unless they were very familiar with airplane maintenance and build, or took the time to find and read the stenciled marker locations on the outside of the plane, they would not know where these points were.
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  #172  
Old 09-06-2019, 10:41 AM
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Maybe I missed it in this thread, but am I the only one thinking Homelander's plan was the crash the plane from the very beginning? He's been engineering things behind the scenes to get the bill passed. Him being unable to save the plane because of the law helps that get pushed.

Also, can I just say that I love that A-Train makes an actual train noise when he runs? There's something very unsettling about it.
  #173  
Old 09-06-2019, 12:38 PM
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Maybe I missed it in this thread, but am I the only one thinking Homelander's plan was the crash the plane from the very beginning? He's been engineering things behind the scenes to get the bill passed. Him being unable to save the plane because of the law helps that get pushed.
I doubt it, if that was his plan he would have done it like he did in episode 1. He is just careless and cares very little for the consequences of his actions, it simply never occurred to him not to laser eye the guy in the cockpit even though neither him nor Maeve were ever in any danger.
  #174  
Old 09-06-2019, 12:43 PM
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Did anyone else notice that in E8, Homelander was able to control his laser eyes enough so the laser did NOT shoot out of the back of Stillwell's head?

Begs the question of whether or not he could have killed the pilot/hijacker without blasting the airplane apart too, doesn't it?

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 09-06-2019 at 12:43 PM.
  #175  
Old 09-06-2019, 12:51 PM
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Did anyone else notice that in E8, Homelander was able to control his laser eyes enough so the laser did NOT shoot out of the back of Stillwell's head?

Begs the question of whether or not he could have killed the pilot/hijacker without blasting the airplane apart too, doesn't it?
Sure, he also did it in ep1 when he melted the robbers gun, and when he assaulted that terrorist compound and just burned a guys chest. He can obviously control it, it's just much slower. The guy in the cockpit was an instant reflex to him shooting the pilot.
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Old 09-06-2019, 01:22 PM
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When I first watched the airplane scene, I figured that, ya know, the laser burns thru something and keeps burning things it encounters after that point in space is no longer occupied, but in light of these other incidents, perhaps we are supposed to assume that he can control his laser eyes enough to not burn through things if he so chooses.
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Old 09-06-2019, 03:01 PM
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The Boys was better than most, but consistency of powers in the superhero genre has always been terrible.
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  #178  
Old 09-06-2019, 03:02 PM
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I agree, but sometimes the lack of consistency is just a lack of information/data. For now, I'll assume that Homelander has control, as the evidence is consistent with that conclusion (so far).
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Old 09-06-2019, 03:35 PM
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He learned after taking down the first plane that they were able to figure out he did it. So I think he was in control but played it off as a mistake.
  #180  
Old 09-06-2019, 03:57 PM
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He learned after taking down the first plane that they were able to figure out he did it. So I think he was in control but played it off as a mistake.
Hmmm. Interesting. So you think that Homelander saw an opportunity and took it? I can see where that would be plausible, since he must have had his "foreign supervillian" plot already in motion at that time and he was actively promoting Vought as a defense contractor.
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Old 09-06-2019, 04:23 PM
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I dont think so, he is not a good actor. He just blew it. And honestly here I dont think he was being evil.
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Old 09-06-2019, 06:02 PM
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I dont think so, he is not a good actor. He just blew it. And honestly here I dont think he was being evil.
Well letting them all die is certainly evil when he could have saved some of them.
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Old 09-06-2019, 06:36 PM
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Well letting them all die is certainly evil when he could have saved some of them.
No, that's amoral, since to him, he had a good reason.
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Old 09-06-2019, 07:15 PM
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the idea that being an asshole is inherently what would happen if you had superpowers.
I think it is more the idea that having superpowers is that much more potentially corrupting. But I don't think it necessarily follow that enormous power automatically = full sociopath. Queen Maeve for example isn't a sociopath - just beaten down, corrupted and jaded( also a bit scared of that genuine sociopath Homelander ). But she still demonstrably had/has some real concern for normal humans. If she counts as an asshole and I suppose she does, it is as a snarky go-along-to-get-along world-weary asshole. Not a sadistic asshole.

If the counter-argument is that she might be if she were as powerful as Homelander, I still don't really buy it. I do think power corrupts, but people are complex and I think the notion that absolute power corrupts absolutely is too simplistic.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 09-06-2019 at 07:16 PM.
  #185  
Old 09-06-2019, 10:02 PM
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I think it is more the idea that having superpowers is that much more potentially corrupting. But I don't think it necessarily follow that enormous power automatically = full sociopath. Queen Maeve for example isn't a sociopath - just beaten down, corrupted and jaded( also a bit scared of that genuine sociopath Homelander ). But she still demonstrably had/has some real concern for normal humans. If she counts as an asshole and I suppose she does, it is as a snarky go-along-to-get-along world-weary asshole. Not a sadistic asshole.

If the counter-argument is that she might be if she were as powerful as Homelander, I still don't really buy it. I do think power corrupts, but people are complex and I think the notion that absolute power corrupts absolutely is too simplistic.
And then there's Starlight, who is pretty darn Good aligned.

The Deep is just a dick, but he honestly wants to save the ocean, so I think overall, that gets him maybe a CG alignment.

A Train is pretty evil, imho, and Homelander is amoral.

Translucent is 100% dick, but I dont see much evil, but maybe i forgot already.

This is from the TV series, not the comics, of course.
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Old 09-12-2019, 12:28 PM
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, but did anyone else think the season felt very incomplete? I understand that everything nowadays is setting up the inevitable sequel (or second season) but other than the huge moment with Homelander/Billy/The Kid, everything just felt like it's missing an episode.

I loved the show a ton. I'm putting Homelander on Emmy watch because he was so damn scary the entire series! The actor did a fantastic job.
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  #187  
Old 09-12-2019, 12:36 PM
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, but did anyone else think the season felt very incomplete?
I didn't. What did you think was missing?
  #188  
Old 09-12-2019, 01:59 PM
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I didn't. What did you think was missing?
Mostly anything not having to do with Homelander.

Where were Frenchie, Mother's Milk and Female Wolverine (sorry can't remember her name) running off to? Did they get there? Was Huey going to the same place? Did HE make it there? Did A-Train survive and what story did Starlight tell the cops about why she was there? Why was the Deep Shaving himself?

I understand leaving stuff for the next season, but we didn't get a shot of The Boys in another hotel room or something talking, or A-Train in a hospital bed for us to go "oh shit...now what's going to happen?", or Starlight coming back to the empty tower.

Nothing (other than Homelander/Billy) was teased for next season to get us intruiged. All the stories just....stopped.

In other news, did anyone else notice the fly? I definitely saw him twice and maybe a third time. Hmmmmmmm......
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  #189  
Old 09-12-2019, 02:41 PM
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Where were Frenchie, Mother's Milk and Female Wolverine (sorry can't remember her name) running off to? Did they get there? Was Huey going to the same place? Did HE make it there? Did A-Train survive and what story did Starlight tell the cops about why she was there? Why was the Deep Shaving himself?

~snip~

Nothing (other than Homelander/Billy) was teased for next season to get us intruiged. All the stories just....stopped.
I think the point is all of those were the tease for next season.
  #190  
Old 09-12-2019, 03:02 PM
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Aye. Those stories didn't stop; they're just waiting until S2 to be told. I mean, every storyline has to be interrupted between seasons, right? That's just where those were at when time for S1 ran out.
  #191  
Old 09-12-2019, 03:14 PM
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The Deep is just a dick, but he honestly wants to save the ocean, so I think overall, that gets him maybe a CG alignment.
Hell no. Whatever label you want to slap on what he did, he coerced a woman into performing sex on him by threatening her career and reputation if she refused (and possibly even life, given that he was going to accuse her of attacking him). You don't come out the other side of that with "good" on your report card.
  #192  
Old 09-12-2019, 03:35 PM
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And then there's Starlight, who is pretty darn Good aligned.

The Deep is just a dick, but he honestly wants to save the ocean, so I think overall, that gets him maybe a CG alignment.

A Train is pretty evil, imho, and Homelander is amoral.

Translucent is 100% dick, but I dont see much evil, but maybe i forgot already.

This is from the TV series, not the comics, of course.
The Deep sexually harrassed Starlight and it is implied others (possibly including dolphins).

Translucent primarily used his powers to stand around naked and invisible mastubating in public.

Neither of these guys were in any way "good" on their own. The only good they did was foist on them by Voight.
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