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  #51  
Old 09-04-2019, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jz78817 View Post
IIRC it’s more like “year-oh”
I'll ask Mr Tsifliklis, my landlord.
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  #52  
Old 09-04-2019, 07:05 PM
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Here on Long Island, "a hero" generally refers to a 3-foot version and will come in either Italian or American flavors.

The Italian basically fits Colibri's description - I'd be surprised not to get salami and ham, and usually either pepperoni or cappicola. Mortadella would be more unusual. The cheese is always provolone, there's always lettuce, tomato, and onion, and a red wine vinegar dressing is served on the side. Peppers and pickles would be unusual here.

The alternative, the American, generally contains turkey, ham, and roast beef with American cheese, LTO, and mayo.
Is some type of mustard acceptable on any one of those?
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  #53  
Old 09-04-2019, 07:19 PM
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How is food from one region of Mexico any less "Mexican" than food from another region of Mexico? Saying that something is Tex-Mex, not Mexican, is like saying that something is Neapolitan, not Italian.
There are people like this guy who claim that Tex-Mex cuisine is not the same as "real" Texas Mexican food:
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Texas Mexican is the indigenous cooking of South Texas, according to Mr. Medrano, 71, whose second cookbook, “Don’t Count the Tortillas: The Art of Texas Mexican Cooking,” will be published in June by Texas Tech University Press. It’s the food that’s been made by families like his on this land since before the Rio Grande marked a border, when Texas was a part of Mexico, and long before then.

Don’t get him wrong: Tex-Mex is a cuisine that should be respected and celebrated, he said. It’s just that Tex-Mex standards like queso and combo fajitas piled high with chicken and shrimp don’t speak of home to those whose Texas roots go back some 12,000 years.

“That’s not our food,” said Mr. Medrano, who has spent the better part of a decade defining his cuisine, inspiring a growing number of Texas Mexicans in the process. “We don’t eat like that.”

[...]

That began in the early 1900s, when local Mexican-American home cooking was first adapted in restaurants run “by Anglos for Anglos,” Mr. Medrano said. In the 1970s, writers started referring to that hybridized cuisine as Tex-Mex: refried beans as smooth as pancake batter; chili made with powdered spices and stock, instead of the carne con chiles based on whole dried red chiles; fajitas with anything other than the skirt steak that gave the dish its name; and extra cheese on everything.
(NB it appears he does, in particular, distinguish "real" Texan-Mexican fajitas from Tex-Mex fajitas!)

Me, well, when it comes to these types of culinary holy wars I prefer to shut up and enjoy my dinner. I like Roman pizzas too.
  #54  
Old 09-04-2019, 07:26 PM
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Is some type of mustard acceptable on any one of those?
An "authentic" Italian hero would not typically be garnished with mustard (or mayonnaise). But I'm sure some people use it.

I suppose that mustard might be a bit more common with an "American" sub, but I don't use it and I don't recall anyone asking for it when it's been served at parties.

Last edited by Colibri; 09-04-2019 at 07:27 PM.
  #55  
Old 09-04-2019, 07:28 PM
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That's how we were taught here in Chicago. And there's an "s" at the end. It's like "kudos." Has an "s," but is singular. There was some sort of poster, I dunno if it was Kronos or Olympia or somebody else, at hot dog stands here that implored us to pronounce it "YEE-ros." But I've also heard that initial consonant can differ depending on the Greek dialect.
there's a coney chain 'round Metro Detroit (Kerby's) who just gave up and spells it "yeros" on their menu.
  #56  
Old 09-04-2019, 08:00 PM
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I eat there quite a lot but as I say above, I thought that "sub" was their equivalent of MacDonalds sticking "Mac" in front of anything and everything.
Except that they don't. It's Mc, not Mac.
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:04 PM
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Is some type of mustard acceptable on any one of those?
Certainly not, although the mustard packets that come standard with it are over there if you insist. (Generally more likely to see mustard put on the American.)
  #58  
Old 09-04-2019, 08:19 PM
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[QUOTE=Colibri;21840548]According to Wiki, the "Italian sandwich" was invented by an Italian-American in Maine in 1903. But I think you can go with the type of hero made in a typical New York Italian deli.

The basic ingredients would include:


-Long, crusty, "Italian bread" roll (like a baguette)
-A variety of thinly sliced cold cuts, including Genoa salami, ham, capicola (Tony Soprano's "gabbagool"), maybe pepperoni, mortadella
-Provolone cheese (although the Maine version apparently uses American cheese)
-Lettuce, tomato, onion
-Dressing of olive oil, red wine vinegar, and maybe some oregano/QUOTE]

Yep, that's my understanding of it and what I expect when I order. Here, for example, is what an Italian sub is in Chicago:

Quote:
In its authentic Chicago rendition, the Italian sub is about 9 inches long and filled with dry-cured Italian meats like salami, capicola, soppresetta, or proscuitto; mortadella is often added to contribute a bologna-like creaminess. It's topped with provolone to help give it some salty bite; a little oil and vinegar for some tang; and giardiniera , that Italian pickled vegetable concoction that's found it's true home here, for a nice kick. It's blessedly simple and straightforward, a shockingly cheap workman's lunch wrapped in paper and slid across the counter to take on the road.
So, basically, Italian cold cuts and cheese in a hoagie/sub roll, which can be a crusty or soft roll here. (Sometimes fresh mozzarella instead of provolone, but that's usually when it's paired with a prosciutto and nothing else.) As much as I like Chicago's take on Italian(-American) subs, I prefer the versions I've had on the East Coast (Philly, NYC, and NJ).
  #59  
Old 09-04-2019, 09:03 PM
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I have had heroes in NYC that approximatel N’Awins Po’boys. You have to specify: Ham or roast beef heated up with slightly melted cheese, topped with tomato, onion, and dill pickles, liberally dressed with mustard and mayonnaise. People look at you weird, but you tell them they’ve made a Po’boy, and they smile.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:13 PM
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pulykammel @58:. I’ve had Italian subs from Taylor Street in Chicago which have been acceptable, but nothing like the Italian heroes in Brooklyn or on Mulberry Street in Manhattan.

Why get one in Chicago when you could have an Italian Beef at Al’s, or a Chi Dog dragged through the garden?
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  #61  
Old 09-04-2019, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ukulele Ike View Post
pulykammel @58:. I’ve had Italian subs from Taylor Street in Chicago which have been acceptable, but nothing like the Italian heroes in Brooklyn or on Mulberry Street in Manhattan.

Why get one in Chicago when you could have an Italian Beef at Al’s, or a Chi Dog dragged through the garden?
I do love the subs at Bari's, as well as a number of other places, but there's something about the ones I've had on the East Coast that are just a bit better to my tastes.
  #62  
Old 09-04-2019, 09:32 PM
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An "authentic" Italian hero would not typically be garnished with mustard (or mayonnaise). But I'm sure some people use it.

I suppose that mustard might be a bit more common with an "American" sub, but I don't use it and I don't recall anyone asking for it when it's been served at parties.
Henry Hill (of Goodfellas fame) says in his cookbook that the Italian heros he grew up eating in Brooklyn in the '40s and '50s came with yellow mustard, and didn't include vinegar or olive oil (though he does include sliced olives in his recipe.)

I guess the contents of an Italian sandwich depend on which Italian you're asking.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:54 PM
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That's how we were taught here in Chicago. And there's an "s" at the end. It's like "kudos." Has an "s," but is singular. There was some sort of poster, I dunno if it was Kronos or Olympia or somebody else, at hot dog stands here that implored us to pronounce it "YEE-ros." But I've also heard that initial consonant can differ depending on the Greek dialect.
My experience is Yee-ro but without the S at the end unless you are ordering more than one. YEE-ro is the usual but I'm sure I've heard Year-Ro a few times. I don't think I've ever heard it as Hero but unfortunately I've heard it many times a Gyro as in Gyroscope.

I remember going to a place in Greek Town in Chicago many years ago (complete with an autographed picture of Telly Savalas on the wall) that had a sign that said "It is pronounced YEE-ro." (may or may not have had an S on the end).

I also found out that you need to specify a "sandwich" or a "platter." The latter may or may not come with Pita but it will be way to big to pick up and eat.

There is a great place very close to me that has been locally owned since the early 80's by a Greek family so I guess I have a good reason to go there and ask if I am pronouncing it right.

Last edited by Spud; 09-04-2019 at 09:56 PM.
  #64  
Old 09-04-2019, 10:09 PM
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Ham (could be one of several varieties), Salami, Provolone Cheese, Lettuce, Tomato, Onion, Oil and Vinegar and Oregano. That is the classic Italian Sub. When I was a kid they used to call them Number 1s because they were always the first on the list of sandwiches when you order by number.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:19 PM
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Ham (could be one of several varieties), Salami, Provolone Cheese, Lettuce, Tomato, Onion, Oil and Vinegar and Oregano. That is the classic Italian Sub. When I was a kid they used to call them Number 1s because they were always the first on the list of sandwiches when you order by number.
#9 at Jimmy John's... #13 at Jersey Mike's

How bad is it that I didn't have to look that up.

Last edited by Spud; 09-04-2019 at 10:19 PM.
  #66  
Old 09-05-2019, 08:36 AM
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The first thing I thought of when I read the title to this thread was "Pasta in the ballast tanks?"
The image the thread title conjured up for me was strings of garlic hanging from the periscope.
  #67  
Old 09-05-2019, 08:52 AM
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I love sandwiches. I like a lot of submarine-type sandwiches. What I don't get about Italian subs is the stacking of multiple kinds of meat. Each kind of meat has a distinctive flavor, but if you cram them together, you don't experience them. It just becomes a big ball of pork products, especially because some of the meats have subtle flavors that are overwhelmed by the more strongly spiced ones. So your delicious, specifically produced meat just becomes meat filler for stronger flavors.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:04 AM
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Henry Hill (of Goodfellas fame) says in his cookbook that the Italian heros he grew up eating in Brooklyn in the '40s and '50s came with yellow mustard, and didn't include vinegar or olive oil (though he does include sliced olives in his recipe.)

I guess the contents of an Italian sandwich depend on which Italian you're asking.
Yeah, but Hill was only half-Italian (his father was Irish, which is why he could never be a made man), so what does he know?

That is interesting, though, if the standard Italian sandwich was different in Brooklyn. My experience is growing up in an Italian-Irish section of the Bronx in the 1950s-1960s, where you would put mustard on a ham and Swiss but not on anything spicier.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:43 AM
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There are people like this guy who claim that Tex-Mex cuisine is not the same as "real" Texas Mexican food:

(NB it appears he does, in particular, distinguish "real" Texan-Mexican fajitas from Tex-Mex fajitas!)
Medrano seems to be splitting hairs; there's a restaurant Tex-Mex style, but it derived from Texas Mexican, and overlaps a lot as well. A lot of it depends on exactly when the people immigrated to Texas.

Chili's a good example- he's drawing his line at the use of chili powder vs. dried chiles reconstituted into a paste. Either way, the dish is a Mexican Texan original- it derived from a stew cooked by Canary Islands settlers in San Antonio in the late 18th/early 19th century, and eventually grew to more widespread popularity in the late 19th century. Not long after that, people came up with chili powder and the recipes became a little bit anglicized. Same thing with fajitas- people started cooking chicken and shrimp along with the beef.

But none of them aren't Mexican, Texas or otherwise they're just a newer version of the original dishes that originated in Mexican communities in Texas. There's not a clear line, even within a dish, whether it's Tex-Mex or Texas Mexican

I guess the best description is in the article- the border moved, but the people didn't. By that logic, the food they made and their descendants made is still Mexican, even if it's Texas Mexican or Tex-Mex or whatever you want to call it.
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Old 09-05-2019, 10:22 AM
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Back when I lived in upstate NY, we got Italian Subs from a Mom & Pop deli/grocery store

Not sure of the lettuce type, but it was long and stringy (Spaghetti shaped, not leafy).
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  #71  
Old 09-05-2019, 11:43 AM
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It would be interesting to map out. I've seen "grinder" as far north and west as Alburg, VT. Even more curious about "spuckie" from Colibri's link, which I've never heard before.

Also: Re: Italy: Don't think of it as one country with a uniform language and cuisine.
I love my northern NE states, and been up there a lot, but whatever they call a sandwich there is probably just a notion from reading a big city magazine. Larger cities with a history of Italians migrating to them are where the names get assigned.
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Old 09-05-2019, 01:59 PM
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It would be interesting to map out. I've seen "grinder" as far north and west as Alburg, VT. Even more curious about "spuckie" from Colibri's link, which I've never heard before.
We occasionally use "grinder" out here in Chicago, but, from my experience with it, it tends to be a baked sub. There's, for example, the Chicago Pizza and Oven Grinder Company (most famous for its pot-pie style pizza); D'Agastino's (a Wrigleyville pizza institution) also sells oven grinders on its menu; in my general neighborhood, there's Piezanos Pizza and Grinder Company (not to be confused with Pizano's) -- also an oven baked sub; I don't think there is a place that does a cold sub and calls it a "grinder" here in Chicago, though. I've only encountered "grinders" as hot submarine sandwiches in my area.
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Old 09-05-2019, 02:52 PM
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Back when I lived in upstate NY, we got Italian Subs from a Mom & Pop deli/grocery store

Not sure of the lettuce type, but it was long and stringy (Spaghetti shaped, not leafy).
It was normal iceberg lettuce just shredded. Yeah shredded lettuce is also a staple of an Italian Sub.
  #74  
Old 09-05-2019, 04:13 PM
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I wondered where the idea of putting vinaigrette on a sub came from. I don't recall ever seeing it before 2000.
Oil and vinegar has been standard on Italian hoagies for as long as I can remember (mid 1960s) and I am certain much earlier than that. My grandmother had a hoagie shop for a while (in the 50s, I think) and was always very particular about the correct assembly and seasoning of a hoagie.

And may I present the ultimate Italian hoagie: the Primo Hoagies sharp Italian - prosciutto, sharp provolone, capicola and genoa salami.

I assume I don't need to add that the correct bread is a necessity for a proper hoagie (as well as for a proper cheesesteak) - I'm looking at you, Subway, with the mushy abomination you call "bread"...
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Old 09-05-2019, 04:14 PM
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Note, I would describe a Greek gyros or hero (at least a couple that I had in Athens) as more like a döner kebab than anything resembling a submarine sandwich (Italian or otherwise). You can get it in a pita, and with onions, tomatoes, and lettuce if you want.
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Old 09-05-2019, 04:54 PM
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"Hero" for a sub-like sandwich is completely unrelated to "gyros" for lamb-and-beef on a pita. The similarity in pronunciations is purely coincidental.
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Old 09-05-2019, 05:42 PM
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Note, I would describe a Greek gyros or hero (at least a couple that I had in Athens) as more like a döner kebab than anything resembling a submarine sandwich (Italian or otherwise). You can get it in a pita, and with onions, tomatoes, and lettuce if you want.
OT, but is there any real difference between doner, gyro, and souvlaki? Or is it just Turkish, Greek, and Lebanese (respectively) terminology?

I get souvlaki here, gyro in Chicago, and doner in Europe. They’re all delicious.

(Doner is served on a soft roll. In America it all comes in pita. In NY, I have to ask for onions to be added.)
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:20 PM
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OT, but is there any real difference between doner, gyro, and souvlaki? Or is it just Turkish, Greek, and Lebanese (respectively) terminology?
In my experience, doner is basically meatballs, gyro is slices off a gyro loaf (usually beef mixed with lamb), and souvlaki is chunks of marinated meat (not ground).

A schwarma has slices of meat off a loaf interlayered with fat, but the meat is not ground. The two types I've encountered most often are veal and chicken.
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:33 PM
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I have had it in several different countries, but was not really paying attention to the fine differences, just wanted some street food

The main feature of the doner/gyros/shawarma is basically the vertically skewered meat cone which rotates and is shaved. It is definitely roasted, so no prosciutto or anything like that. Lamb is pretty typical, though you can usually substitute beef, chicken, turkey, pork, or whatever the place has. Spices will also vary.

As for regional variations, the type of bread (assuming you get it on bread) is one obvious difference. It could be a pita, or Turkish flatbread, or Turkish non-flat bread, or the roll you mention. Then come the vegetables and sauce. In my experience they ask you before adding them; if you say you want it with everything then you get your onions, lettuce, and tomatoes. Chips are not unheard of, nor cucumbers, various pickles, etc. Greek sauce is yogurt-based, but there are other types of white sauce, blended mayo/ketchup, and hot sauce, tomato sauce, butter, and other possibilities (tahini, mango chutney, you name it).

As with the Italian sandwiches, I am sure there will be a big argument over which type of "Greek sandwich" (or Turkish sandwich, really) is most authentic. But I think- correct me if I'm wrong- despite the serving and even ingredient variations, gyros/doner/shawarma refers to the same type of rotisserie, just in different languages. Souvlaki or shish kebab is different, because the meat is not prepared like that.

Last edited by DPRK; 09-05-2019 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:04 PM
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In my experience, doner is basically meatballs.
Hmm...my experience is different. For me, doner is also usually cut off a cone, but typically more Turkish and Middle Eastern spiced than Greek. (Google image searching "doner" shows nothing but sliced meats off a spit for me, too.) Meatballs is kofte kebab (or any of a zillion variant spellings.) And souvlaki is what we think of as shish kebabs here in the US.

Last edited by pulykamell; 09-05-2019 at 07:05 PM.
  #81  
Old 09-05-2019, 07:12 PM
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Lamb is pretty typical, though you can usually substitute beef, chicken, turkey, pork, or whatever the place has. Spices will also vary..
I was actually surprised that in Greece, gyros is often (if not most often) pork, and not lamb. A quick look on the net seems to agree, saying it's typically pork or chicken. I live in the land of the processed gyros cone (I believe it was made here in Chicago originally) and it's usually a mix of lamb & beef, so I always assumed lamb was the usual meat, but apparently not.

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Old 09-05-2019, 07:42 PM
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At all my local places, the souvlaki is shaved off the cone like a gyro. If you don’t specify, you get tahini sauce...but it’s better with tzatziki (or whatever the Lebanese call tzatziki.). Tahini sauce is for felafel, I say.

Oh, I forgot one other variation....in the Left Bank of Paris, you can get a sandwich grec, which is gyro on a chunk of a wide baguette with the usual trimmings. (You can also get it topped with a pile of fresh frites, which you consume before tucking into the sandwich.) I haven’t had one recently, but when I was 19 it was a cheap guilty pleasure. Putting that stuff on a GOOD piece a’ bread is a revelation.
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:48 PM
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To put this roller coaster back on the rails, I challenge the idea of prosciutto on an Italian hero.

I like prosciutto draped over ripe melon or a cutlet and eaten with a knife and fork, not in a sandwich. Eat that and you gotta stand in front of the bathroom mirror with a roll of dental floss for a half hour or so.

Also, after a healthy bite, the prosciutto drags out of the sandwich and lands in your lap. Maybe I need to get my incisors sharpened.
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:23 PM
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At all my local places, the souvlaki is shaved off the cone like a gyro.
Interesting. I google "souvlaki" and all I get is pictures of shish kebab type things. Are you sure you're not thinking of shwarma? Or maybe it is some local usage, but everywhere I've been, souvlaki was something like a shish kebab. (Hmm...although it seems that some places use souvlaki to refer to any kind of pita wrap, so I guess it does depend.)

Last edited by pulykamell; 09-05-2019 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:40 PM
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Anyone willing to part with a donor kebab?
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:53 PM
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We occasionally use "grinder" out here in Chicago, but, from my experience with it, it tends to be a baked sub. There's, for example, the Chicago Pizza and Oven Grinder Company (most famous for its pot-pie style pizza); D'Agastino's (a Wrigleyville pizza institution) also sells oven grinders on its menu; in my general neighborhood, there's Piezanos Pizza and Grinder Company (not to be confused with Pizano's) -- also an oven baked sub; I don't think there is a place that does a cold sub and calls it a "grinder" here in Chicago, though. I've only encountered "grinders" as hot submarine sandwiches in my area.
Philly's Best is the place in Chicago where I first encountered a "grinder" and it has always been baked so that is how I assumed it should be. Haven't had one in a while....salivating....

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I was actually surprised that in Greece, gyros is often (if not most often) pork, and not lamb. A quick look on the net seems to agree, saying it's typically pork or chicken. I live in the land of the processed gyros cone (I believe it was made here in Chicago originally) and it's usually a mix of lamb & beef, so I always assumed lamb was the usual meat, but apparently not.
Ah yes, the meat cone of lamb. I've always jokingly referred to a gyros as "lamb bologna" for just that reason. Haven't had one in a while either....salivating....
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Royal Nonesutch View Post
In Parma a few months back, I had a "sub", made on an Italian baguette with Parma ham, shaved Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese, field greens and tomato, drizzled with balsamic vinegar and olive oil. Incredibly simple, perfectly excecuted.

It was not too much different from something you could get in any city USA, only the bread was much smaller in diameter than at a place like Subway, and as you might imagine, the ingredients were all obviously fresh and of exceedingly high quality, even though this place was far from upscale.

Sadly, it was probably the best (and cheapest) meal we had the entire time we were in Parma, which in my experience has the least impressive (and most expensive) food of any city I have ever visited in Italy.
This made me cry. I made one trip to Italy a long time ago and I still dream of the food I had. I'm going to fall asleep tonight murmuring salami mortadella parmigiano-reggiano soppressata capicola prosciutto provalone...
  #88  
Old 09-05-2019, 10:11 PM
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In Russia, McDonald's sometimes offers the McGreek: Two standard beef patties, onion, tomato, creamy sauce, all wrapped in a pita. Surprisingly tasty, even without ground cumin or coriander.
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  #89  
Old 09-05-2019, 10:24 PM
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Interesting. I google "souvlaki" and all I get is pictures of shish kebab type things. Are you sure you're not thinking of shwarma? Or maybe it is some local usage, but everywhere I've been, souvlaki was something like a shish kebab. (Hmm...although it seems that some places use souvlaki to refer to any kind of pita wrap, so I guess it does depend.)
I don't think it is much of a coincidence: "shish" means skewer, in Turkish. "Souvlaki" (cf kalamaki) is a small skewer in Greek. So nothing strictly to do with pitas: it is meat roasted on a skewer, like gyros refers to meat roasted on a rotating meat cone. You can have either one by itself with stuff on the side or wrapped in a pita or baguette with condiments and salad. I would be surprised if "souvlaki" places didn't also serve gyros and other pita wraps, because why not, so maybe that is where the confusion originates. It's true that in Greece it is commonly prepared from pork, not sure why, which is understandably less common in Turkey and the Middle East.
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Old 09-06-2019, 01:16 AM
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I don't think it is much of a coincidence: "shish" means skewer, in Turkish. "Souvlaki" (cf kalamaki) is a small skewer in Greek. So nothing strictly to do with pitas: it is meat roasted on a skewer, like gyros refers to meat roasted on a rotating meat cone. You can have either one by itself with stuff on the side or wrapped in a pita or baguette with condiments and salad. I would be surprised if "souvlaki" places didn't also serve gyros and other pita wraps, because why not, so maybe that is where the confusion originates. It's true that in Greece it is commonly prepared from pork, not sure why, which is understandably less common in Turkey and the Middle East.
When I was a young'un, the dominant Greek meat-wrapped-in-pita foodstuff was the souvlaki, and it was always made by frying the individual cubes of meat (and always lamb). At some point while I was out of the country everyone seemed to transfer all together to the big-hunk-o-skewered-meat mechanism - but still kept calling it souvlaki. My front-running theory is that the big hunk-o-meat is just that much easier to deal with when you're selling fast food.

Also enabled the entry of that vastly inferior foodstuff, the chicken souvlaki
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  #91  
Old 09-06-2019, 03:16 AM
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It’s a long established fact that the world’s best Italian subs are Philly Hoagies. And, the best rolls for hoagies are Amoroso. Don’t settle for Amoroso’s pre-packed grocery store rolls (not the same animal), get the fresh ones. I was about to say drive to South Philly for a big barrel of Amoroso rolls, but I see you now need to head to New Jersey (sorry about that, but enduring Jersey will demonstrate your commitment to hoagie excellence).

What are you going to do with all those leftover rolls? Eating Italian hoagies every day wouldn’t be very healthy. So, here’s what you do: eat Italian hoagies every other day. Eat Philly cheesesteaks on the alternate days! By some wonderful coincidental quirk of the universe, Amoroso rolls also make the best cheesesteak rolls.

The best meats, cheese and veggies have already been mentioned. But be sure to use a lot of high octane olive oil and sprinkle liberally with oregano and basil. Try dried red flake and banana peppers, too.
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  #92  
Old 09-06-2019, 06:34 AM
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To contine a stupid hijack for a moment, in Northern Greece as of April 2019, the most commom pronunciation was "Hair-Oh".

(Sadly, lamb was not nearly as common on most menus as I had imagined, and very expensive compared to other food, but for seafood lovers, Greece is paradise, right up there with costal Portugal or Spain. I had some charcoal grilled, cheese stuffed whole calamari that was so mollyfocking tasty that I considered sneaking out of the hotel once my wife was asleep so I could go back and get more, but I decided that wouldn't be good form on a honeymoon)

ETA---Souvalaki is cubed, marinated pork, lamb or chicken grilled over a flame on a skewer.

Last edited by Royal Nonesutch; 09-06-2019 at 06:37 AM.
  #93  
Old 09-06-2019, 07:10 AM
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How is food from one region of Mexico any less "Mexican" than food from another region of Mexico? Saying that something is Tex-Mex, not Mexican, is like saying that something is Neapolitan, not Italian.
Because Texas isn't Mexico. I can't get fajitas in Mexico unless I go to Chili's, an American restaurant chain. But you know what's very similar to fajitas? "Alambres," which are not shish-kabobs despite often (but not always) being cooked on a spit ("wire").

Whether or not some random Mexican in Texas made tacos from skirt steak isn't relevant. Mexicans make tacos out of everything. It doesn't matter what meal you are eating; if there are tortillas present, you will "taquiar."

The fajita dish as we know it was developed and commercialized in Texas. It's Tex-Mex and definitely not Mexican.

Do we need to address chimichangas next?
  #94  
Old 09-06-2019, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Balthisar View Post
Because Texas isn't Mexico. I can't get fajitas in Mexico unless I go to Chili's, an American restaurant chain. But you know what's very similar to fajitas? "Alambres," which are not shish-kabobs despite often (but not always) being cooked on a spit ("wire").

Whether or not some random Mexican in Texas made tacos from skirt steak isn't relevant. Mexicans make tacos out of everything. It doesn't matter what meal you are eating; if there are tortillas present, you will "taquiar."

The fajita dish as we know it was developed and commercialized in Texas. It's Tex-Mex and definitely not Mexican.

Do we need to address chimichangas next?
Shall we call al pastor “authentic Mexican” given it was brought in by the Lebanese?

Bickering over “authenticity” gets complicated real quick.
  #95  
Old 09-06-2019, 07:19 AM
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What Makes An Italian Sub Authentic?

Ha un periscopio.

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  #96  
Old 09-06-2019, 09:06 AM
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Because Texas isn't Mexico.
It isn't, but the Mexican diaspora created it (as far as I understand it), so I personally treat it as a type of regional Mexican food, just like I treat Italian-American as a regional extension of Italian traditions (often Southern Italian.) I mean, I suppose it depends on how you define your terms and where you draw the line, but I have no issue with calling food created outside the borders of the country or ethnicity by that national or ethnic diaspora as being regional extensions of that cuisine.
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Old 09-06-2019, 09:30 AM
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Because Texas isn't Mexico.
I could be remembering wrong- but wasn't at least part of Texas actually Mexico until Texas declared its independence? The Mexican flag is one of the "Six flags over Texas".
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Old 09-06-2019, 09:35 AM
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Why can't food be both authentic and American? Or is "authentic" just another word for "foreign"?
  #99  
Old 09-06-2019, 09:57 AM
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Why can't food be both authentic and American?
because snobbery.
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Old 09-06-2019, 10:22 AM
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Why can't food be both authentic and American? Or is "authentic" just another word for "foreign"?
It's not exactly another word for foreign - it's often actually used to contrast the "authentic" food with the "modified by/for Americans" version. For example, if I get food from the nearby Chinese takeout, it's prepared differently than when my Chinese husband goes to get it - and even what he gets there is different from what's served in Chinese restaurants in a Chinese neighborhood (although that's more a matter of different items on the menu rather than different preparation). If you go to a certain type of Italian-American restaurant in the Northeastern US, you would think that Italians don't eat vegetables except in salads , serve pasta as a side dish and have either red sauce and/or cheese on every protein.

Last edited by doreen; 09-06-2019 at 10:23 AM.
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