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  #151  
Old 11-20-2018, 03:14 PM
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That video has been pulled for a copyright claim.
  #152  
Old 11-20-2018, 03:18 PM
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That video has been pulled for a copyright claim.
Which in this context probably means Bethesda didn't like what it had to say and needed a pretext to get rid of it.
  #153  
Old 11-20-2018, 03:21 PM
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Watched it last night...is it just me, or in every interview clip etc. does Todd seem entirely unconvinced of the words coming out his own mouth?
  #154  
Old 11-20-2018, 03:23 PM
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It's mostly a bunch of clips of streamers messing with the bugs and glitches in the game.

I don't think one video is going to make or break this game's reputation - it's been getting pretty universally panned. The kindest reviews I've seen are along the lines of, "gosh, this game is pretty boring."

Last edited by Johnny Bravo; 11-20-2018 at 03:24 PM.
  #155  
Old 11-20-2018, 05:42 PM
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That video has been pulled for a copyright claim.
Well that's shitty. I'm not sure who did it, but youtube is way too quick to take shit down.

It's just a compilation of streamers playing fallout 76 and showing all of the glitches and bad design interspersed with Todd Howard's commentary on the game from presentations.

Here's a re-upload if anyone wants to see it. May or may not get taken down too.
  #156  
Old 11-20-2018, 05:51 PM
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Also, he says in the video that this is the biggest project they've ever done, and they borrowed experience from all zenimax's development teams, and all that. They'd be way better off getting this to blow over if they said "eh, we tried something different, here you go" instead of hyping it up like that. "This is our biggest project ever and it feels like a modder community made it in their spare time" is not a flattering look.
  #157  
Old 11-21-2018, 09:12 AM
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Here's a re-upload if anyone wants to see it. May or may not get taken down too.
Yeah, that one is still up.

So, is QA not a thing in the games industry anymore?
  #158  
Old 11-21-2018, 09:45 AM
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Yeah, that one is still up.

So, is QA not a thing in the games industry anymore?
Bethesda seems to have learned that they can use early buyers as free QA and they'll still make lots of money.
  #159  
Old 11-21-2018, 10:25 AM
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On PC, their community has fixed their games for them going on 20 years now, so they're used to it. I still think it's a shame now that the way their games are most experienced are the broken, crappy version now. But the modding community can't fix their multiplayer games, since they disallow mods.
  #160  
Old 11-21-2018, 11:37 AM
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Fallout 76 sounded awful from the announcement (let’s make it PvP multiplayer and remove all the content and story that makes the Fallout series worth playing) but that video is just so much worse.

It’s like trying to serve chocolate cake with liver and onions baked in it, then you find out the liver is rotten and putting people in the hospital.
  #161  
Old 11-21-2018, 12:04 PM
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My cynical friend was sure that the floor for this game's meta rating was 75, because the game review industry is completely corrupt and that's where AAA studio games start. It's currently sitting at a 49 on ps4, and that may be generous because the AAA hype boost is probably already figured in to that number. If you're not familiar with metacritic, that's a horrific number, since game reviews basically start at 50, and 0-49 are hardly ever used.

But he said give it a few days, let's see where the ratings go when the big reviewers chime in, since they'll be overly generous. But apparently the big reviewers don't want to touch it. Jeff Gerstmann of GiantBomb said:

“No one on staff wants to play anymore of this videogame [Fallout 76]. I’m not going to subject myself to another 20-30 hours of this [expletive] mess to just put a number on it. My number is ‘Don’t play this game’."

Last edited by SenorBeef; 11-21-2018 at 12:09 PM.
  #162  
Old 11-21-2018, 12:46 PM
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I don't think one video is going to make or break this game's reputation - it's been getting pretty universally panned. The kindest reviews I've seen are along the lines of, "gosh, this game is pretty boring."


Well, I guess it's different strokes for different folks. I'm actually quite enjoying it so far. Haven't met any asshole players since very early in the BETA, and randomly encountering a few people in the wilderness while exploring this vast empty wasteland is actually kind of fun*. It makes it feel like there really are just one Vault's worth of people trying to re-establish some sort of society.

If they'd just fix the storage problem I'd be happy.



*Just playing it today, I ran into a group of Super Mutants who mopped the floor with me. A few minutes later, I saw another player getting attacked by the same group, and helped him out with a few sniper kills on those Mutate SOBs.
  #163  
Old 11-21-2018, 12:50 PM
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To me, it seems like an easy fix for this would be just having the bases be instanced, since another player can't come in and loot your stash anyway, so no real point in not doing it this way. I'll take the load screen hit if they will just let us have more storage options than one big stash.


I don't know the technical details behind this, but having the CAMPs available to other players adds to that "We're all in this together" feel of the game. Because if you run across another player's CAMP, you can use all their crafting stations, which is often a critical factor in surviving. Crafting food, in particular, is far more important to survival in this game than in earlier versions. I've actually made a point of going out of my way to hunt Radstags and the like, just for the food.

But I don't kill the foxes, I feel sorry for them, for some reason. They just want to be left alone!*



*There's actually a quest where you learn this
  #164  
Old 11-21-2018, 12:56 PM
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Is survival actually hard or interesting? Or is it just sort not-actually-survival like gathering up every random bit of tape and scrap metal you can find in FO4?
  #165  
Old 11-21-2018, 02:25 PM
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Is survival actually hard or interesting? Or is it just sort not-actually-survival like gathering up every random bit of tape and scrap metal you can find in FO4?


I guess, it's a little bit of both? With the limits on how much stuff you can store, you have to focus a lot more attention on the few key ingredients that are relatively scarce, and take care in how you use them. I had to go scrounging for some aluminum today to fix my chest armor, for example.
  #166  
Old 11-21-2018, 03:15 PM
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I'm honestly not seeing the reason for all the hate. I haven't seen more bugs than the average game at the one week stage. And I don't feel that getting quests from robots,or computers, or area triggers, instead of humans, is the end of all that I hold dear about Fallout. It's just a different atmosphere. It's half survival, half investigative-anthropologist really. Look though the remnants of a civilization, and try to figure out what happened to them, while zombies and mutants try to kick your ass. I've always half-assed the main story line in Bethesda games anyway,going rogue to start and only getting back to it when I am done with everything else.
There is definitely stuff that needs tweaked, and a few other things that need serious rework, but I'm enjoying the rest of the game while they can work on those.

Last edited by wolfman; 11-21-2018 at 03:17 PM.
  #167  
Old 11-21-2018, 03:30 PM
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How is the gameplay? Is it fun to fight? Is it still an exploration - fighting - looting/crafting loop and if so, how does it compare to previous iterations?
  #168  
Old 11-21-2018, 04:35 PM
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I love the exploring, it is my favorite part of Bethesda games, and it is as good as ever.

I find the fighting fun, my days of being a master fast twitch gamer peaked around the time of the first Doom, and are going downhill with the aging dexterity of my fingers, but it is exactly the same as the other Fallouts to my mind, a major part of the experience that I am adequate at at best.

The looting-crafting loop is one of the things that needs work. I have a 3 by 3 box(wooden floor, walls, roof, with 6 crafting stations and 5 turrets, and my CAMP budget is sitting around 75% max. Functional hovel is the best it seems I will be able to do, but I have seen much nicer bases by other players, so I don't know what I am doing wrong. It seems weird that gathering all the crap in the world up to build with only came in the last game. 1,2,3 and NV didn't have it but I am so Pavlovian in bringing tons of shit back to ....... well I don't know, is the problem. I gather, stumble back, look at my full Stash box, and drop it.

I have only encountered three immersion braking bugs, Only one of which effected gameplay at all . One was a quest Doodad that was non inter-actable, that the changed in the patch. One is that when I die in Power armor, and respawn, for some reason my broken corpse launches into the air before the loading screen of the respawn fades in. And the other is that I built my CAMP on a road on a hill, and when I fast travel to it I am neck deep in ground and road until I run and jump back to the top of the ground.
But the one thing I do need mats for, fixing weapons and armor, are a fairly constrained few resources. Black titanium, aluminum, springs, gears, adhesive etc, are real tight. While piles of asbestos and ceramic sit soullessly.

Last edited by wolfman; 11-21-2018 at 04:36 PM.
  #169  
Old 11-22-2018, 10:19 AM
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IGN gives it a 5/10, which is really low for a major game like this.

Gamespot gives it 4/10, even worse.
  #170  
Old 11-22-2018, 12:17 PM
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I'm honestly not seeing the reason for all the hate. I haven't seen more bugs than the average game at the one week stage.
You must be luckier than every other reviewer (professional or amateur) Iíve read so far. The number of bugs they mention in a beta at this stage is embarrassing. Iím involved in alpha testing a few games right now that arenít nearly as bad. For as far along as this game is supposed to be in development it seems like Bethesda has no idea what theyíre doing.

I agree with others whoíve said that they seem have grown used to using the modding community as a crutch for so long that without it they struggle to stand on their own power.
  #171  
Old 11-22-2018, 12:37 PM
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Will it improve, do you think? I mean, is it possible that this game has barely met its release date and future updates will make a better game out of it?

It sounds like it has a lot of great environments/towns, but the emptiness created by no NPC's has made it kind of dull. Maybe they could find a way to fix it.
  #172  
Old 11-22-2018, 01:08 PM
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It sounds like it has a lot of great environments/towns, but the emptiness created by no NPC's has made it kind of dull. Maybe they could find a way to fix it.

See, this is what I mean. I wouldn't call it "dull" at all. In fact, there's almost too much to do, which often gets in the way of what you want to be doing. Every quest seems to send me into an area where I trigger other quests or "Events", and I just don't have the time to do all of them.

The Events are the most annoying, because they tend to spawn monsters that then attack you while you're just trying to get from A to B to complete a quest. And there doesn't seem to be a limit on how often they trigger. I got the "Grafton Day!" Event about 6 times in 10 minutes last night, because I was trying to investigate a house just on the edge of where that Event triggers. It gets quite annoying at times.
  #173  
Old 11-22-2018, 01:44 PM
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Will it improve, do you think? I mean, is it possible that this game has barely met its release date and future updates will make a better game out of it?
Iím sure it will improve because they seem to have invested a lot of hype and reputation into it. Maybe itíll be like No Manís Sky which was a huge disappointment at launch but is now finally a pretty robust, fun game. It just might take some time to fix bugs and address whatís lacking.

Obviously I was not a fan of the original idea and it has under-delivered on what was even a weak premise. But this is a good developer who has made many great games over the years and Iím sure theyíll make this title into something enjoyable.

Is the game doomed though in the court of public opinion? Will such an awful start be a permanent stain they can never get rid of? I guess weíll see.
  #174  
Old 11-23-2018, 01:36 PM
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Iím sure it will improve because they seem to have invested a lot of hype and reputation into it. Maybe itíll be like No Manís Sky which was a huge disappointment at launch but is now finally a pretty robust, fun game.
No Man's Sky is exactly what I was thinking. Bethesda might be on-board for putting many years of work into it and making it a great game.

In a few years, maybe I'll be interested.

Is it totally free other than the initial purchase?
  #175  
Old 11-23-2018, 01:54 PM
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Is it totally free other than the initial purchase?
There are micro transactions. I know that at least some of them are cosmetic only. I don't know if they sell anything that helps you play the game.
  #176  
Old 11-23-2018, 02:36 PM
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We've been wanting to play Bethesda games together for a long time so we bought two game codes last night. I'm building a new computer tomorrow so we haven't tried it yet
  #177  
Old 11-23-2018, 03:09 PM
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We've been wanting to play Bethesda games together for a long time so we bought two game codes last night. I'm building a new computer tomorrow so we haven't tried it yet
Good luck, hope you have fun exploring together.
  #178  
Old 11-23-2018, 07:06 PM
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There are micro transactions. I know that at least some of them are cosmetic only. I don't know if they sell anything that helps you play the game.
But no subscription fee? I guess I could see trying it if they drop the game to $10 or less in a couple years. And they fully support it with free fixes and some free updates to content, etc.

I'll let the world beta-test this for awhile before thinking about it.
  #179  
Old 11-27-2018, 02:53 PM
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We've been wanting to play Bethesda games together for a long time so we bought two game codes last night. I'm building a new computer tomorrow so we haven't tried it yet
Got the new PC set up and tried it (and BF5) out Sunday and last night. So far it's fun. Much more like a typical Bethesda game* and not at all like an MMO. We do see some other players now and then but the server seems pretty sparse. I don't know if that's intentional. We saw a few minor visual glitches but nothing that affected gameplay.

*I've only "finished" Fallout 3, played a bit of Oblivion and Skyrim, and watched bits of the newer Fallout games.

re: crafting, you can build stuff in your friend's base and can use their workbenches, which is nice. We didn't both have to build redundant stuff.
  #180  
Old 11-27-2018, 02:58 PM
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Got the new PC set up and tried it (and BF5) out Sunday and last night. So far it's fun. Much more like a typical Bethesda game* and not at all like an MMO. We do see some other players now and then but the server seems pretty sparse. I don't know if that's intentional. We saw a few minor visual glitches but nothing that affected gameplay.

*I've only "finished" Fallout 3, played a bit of Oblivion and Skyrim, and watched bits of the newer Fallout games.

re: crafting, you can build stuff in your friend's base and can use their workbenches, which is nice. We didn't both have to build redundant stuff.
I think if they fix some of the glaring issues it will be the fallout game I always wanted. Basically, an open world that me and a few friends can play in together, beat up monsters and loot stuff and maybe toss a few nukes about in. They need to fix their vendor/economy system, fix the stash system (junk it, IMHO, and go with instanced bases with the loot boxes inside), and maybe allow for mutual semi-persistent bases (i.e. a shared base that is there whenever one of the team or guild is logged in). I'd like to see them add the ability to build vaults of our own (instanced and shared) and I'd REALLY like to see NPC player hub cities and maybe a few scattered NPCs just around the map, but I can live without them if they fix the other things.
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  #181  
Old 11-27-2018, 03:00 PM
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I don't think we've played enough yet to have much opinion on the vendor/economy/stash/etc. There were a few instances of "hold on, I'm fat again" where we needed to find a bench or public stash. Most of our scrap use has been on repairs of found items, a few upgrades, and building our camp. We'll see how it goes. I don't think we've even hit level 10 yet.

Last edited by Ruken; 11-27-2018 at 03:01 PM.
  #182  
Old 11-27-2018, 04:13 PM
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Got the new PC set up and tried it (and BF5) out Sunday and last night. So far it's fun. Much more like a typical Bethesda game* and not at all like an MMO. We do see some other players now and then but the server seems pretty sparse. I don't know if that's intentional.
The servers are set with a maximum of 24 players. So this game is not an MMO (24 isnít ďmassiveĒ, itís more like the population of an old school MUD). Given that the map is estimated to be about 16 square miles (bigger than Skyrim by almost 2 square miles, and thatís not considering much of Skyrimís map was made of mountains you couldnít climb) you shouldnít expect to run into a lot of people.
  #183  
Old 12-03-2018, 05:35 AM
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I bought a copy on Cyber Monday for $35 and played it a bunch this weekend. But I'm not sure I'll play it again.

I tried to pay little attention to the reviews and such so as not to bias my opinion too much. But I had some thoughts about it when it was first announced... and almost everything I worried about is true.

It's a Fallout game, but the multiplayer aspect makes it worse in every way. There's all the usual stuff that comes with being online: server disconnects, slow interactions with stuff, gunshots that don't connect, inventory glitches, and so on. And then there's the fact that there's no pause: can't stop to take a leak, or switch weapons, or use a stimpak, or have a proper VATS, etc. Oh, and of course there's no save and restore, or modding, or a console to work around bugs.

The lack of NPCs doesn't bother me too much, but they haven't replaced it with anything. There's no permanence at all. It's all either quests that have no effect, or infinitely repeating events. You can only do so much when you already know the outcome: everyone's dead.

At first I thought griefing wasn't a problem, and for the most part it wasn't, but just now I came across a small group that just wanted me dead. They were all level 50+, I was 18. Even with the reduced damage they made short work of me. I went back to my CAMP, and a couple of minutes later they showed up again. I logged out before they did anything else. I ain't got time for that.

Even aside from intentional griefing, high level players can spawn high level baddies with me in the middle. Annoying.

Maybe the fun in playing with a friend would make up for some of this... but I doubt it. I think it would make a lot of the exploration aspects more tedious. Without some common goal that multiple people can contribute toward, it seems pointless.

I think I would like it much more with private server instances and much larger base limits. I could invite some friends and we could all build some cool stuff and not worry about griefing. It would still have all the problems with being online, but being able to do something with permanence might make up for part of that.
  #184  
Old 12-03-2018, 11:07 AM
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That description reminds me of Daggerfall except with other real players. Every dungeon or quest outside the main story in DF was randomly generated. This sounds similar to me.
  #185  
Old 12-03-2018, 03:29 PM
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Well, there are "real" quests, with voice acting and the like, they just don't change anything. It doesn't open up new areas of the world, or make a town friendly to you, or anything like that.

The events aren't quite random either, but they repeat often enough to be annoying. I actually like some aspects of the idea, and the first time I encountered them they had the effect of making it feel like a "living world". But after the fifth time the power plant goes down and needs repairs, it just feels fake and tiresome. Plus there just aren't enough people on a server to ever attract more than one player to an event, so it also doesn't work as a social gathering mechanism.

A persistent world where you fix the plant and it powers up a town or something would be cool. But currently, you're just randomly assigned to a server and so they can't really make anything permanent.
  #186  
Old 12-03-2018, 04:21 PM
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A persistent world where you fix the plant and it powers up a town or something would be cool.
Sure, that would be cool as long as it was you who got to fix the power plant. The reality would be that Johnny McBadass gets to fix the power plant and everyone else is left holding their nuts.
  #187  
Old 12-03-2018, 04:35 PM
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Sure, that would be cool as long as it was you who got to fix the power plant. The reality would be that Johnny McBadass gets to fix the power plant and everyone else is left holding their nuts.
Right, which is why I suggested private server instances. That way, my friends and I are the ones that get to fix up the world. We can also build up a cool shared base that doesn't collide with other people's stuff.

It's a very different game, but I've been playing Astroneer with a friend and it works almost the way I want. My friends and I run around exploring and gathering resources, building a shared base that increases its capabilities over time (eventually launching rockets and other stuff). We can work together or apart depending on the situation, but we're both contributing and don't have to worry about other players messing with our stuff.
  #188  
Old 12-05-2018, 11:44 PM
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So they decided to get out ahead of the class action suit and just send people an actual canvas bag.

So all you have to do is submit a ticket, and ... wait, apparently while trying to submit a ticket you can gain access to their support ticket back end and see other people's tickets, names, addresses, and phone numbers.

I wonder if they can go a day without stepping on their dicks.
  #189  
Old 12-06-2018, 12:05 AM
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Could this get worse?

Bethesda looks like a company falling apart. Like a heavily-used nylon bag. Maybe this isn’t the Bethesda I know and respected all these years.
  #190  
Old 12-06-2018, 12:24 AM
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Maybe this isnít the Bethesda I know and respected all these years.
I don't think so. Lots of companies screw up their collector's edition rewards. I don't know why anyone buys that junk. Security breaches are also a dime a dozen.

From my perspective, Bethesda didn't realize that their games were always a rickety mess, and they depended heavily on the mod community as well as the advantages inherent in single player games like save/reload. From there, they added online support with the same level of reliability as their single-player games--that is, very poor. So we get flaky and laggy servers.

I love the Fallout games but they're pretty dicey even as single player games, and Bethesda removed the one aspect that made them moderately playable. They just have to go back to what they know and they'll be the same old company.

That said, the Fallout 4 dialogue system is still a disappointment. At least Fallout 76 avoided that...
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:45 AM
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Oh, I guess we hadn't actually discussed the canvas bag issue.

So the people who paid for the $200 special edition were supposed to get this but actually got this piece of crap 3 cent nylon bag.

So someone writes their customer support and gets this reply. Which is, I suppose, pretty honest. They cheaped out.

So Bethesda comes rushing in and says

Quote:
The Bethesda Store's Support member is a temporary contract employee and not directly employed by Bethesda or Bethesda Game Studios. We apologize to the customer who took the time to reach out. The support response was incorrect and not in accordance with our conduct policy.

...

Unfortunately, due to unavailability of materials, we had to switch to a nylon carrying case in the Fallout 76: Power Armor Edition. We hope this doesn’t prevent anyone from enjoying what we feel is one of our best collector’s editions.
So they admonished the support people for giving the wrong info, and then basically say the same thing. Well, except they used the excuse "due to a material shortage" like the fucking world ran out of canvas. But still, no plans to do anything.

So after there was an uproar about getting shafted, they offered to give them 500 atom points ($5 in virtual currency) to make up for it, if they filed a ticket. Which was just insulting. I mean they're even being stingy with the digital currency.

People reacted badly to this - it's not a real fix to the issue, and it's a pittance on top of that. Ironically, you can get the canvas bag they promise in game as a virtual item as part of a costume, but that costume costs $18. So.... the $5 in virtual currency they give you is less than a third of what it actually costs to own a virtual version of the canvas bag in game. Which brings the absurdity to perfection.

Only after the outrage getting worse at every stage and a law firm starting to gather up a class action lawsuit did they decide to make some canvas bags and send them to people. At which point the security flaw in their ticketing system was shown, and personal information was leaked.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 12-06-2018 at 12:47 AM.
  #192  
Old 12-06-2018, 12:56 AM
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Also, apparently they're putting in undocumented changes to make the game more grindy. Which seems pretty shady - not to be above board with things like that.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 12-06-2018 at 12:57 AM.
  #193  
Old 12-06-2018, 01:07 AM
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From my perspective, Bethesda didn't realize that their games were always a rickety mess,
Nah, they've known that for decades. They got where they are by not being afraid to push the hell out of the envelope. People act like the community mod-able code is somehow an accident that doesn't count as part of the design. Tens of thousands of hours of volunteer development was one hell of feature they came upon.

quick history from what I remember.

TES:Arena was already marketed as a gladiatorial combat game, and pretty close to completion when they decided that whole aspect sucked and change the whole game to be the quests.


TESaggerfall was an unplayable buggy mess for months, far worse than anything 76 or Andromeda had. And a lot of the issues were because they spent a lot of time to scope the game to play step-for-step like a real sized country, was was a huge screwup, ultimately adding very little to gamepley.

Redguard: I didn't play much, I had a friend who got it expecting more RPG and got a poor-mans Prince of Persia, so I passed entirely.

Battlespire was just a miserable crap game, with no plot evident, interest in progression, or real reason to exist at all.


Morrowwind was somewhat buggy at first, nowhere near as bad as Daggerfall, and was in general a major step in putting the lessons learned from the failures together, to make a classic excellent game.

Oblivion took some other steps in weird directions, and was initially excoriated for it's differences form Morrowwind, like level 46, ebony armored highway bandits.


Skyrim was the real culmination of what they had learned, an all time great.


For Fallout once they took it over:

Fallout 3 was initially disliked and panned by fans because they dumped much of Black isles deep variation of shades of grey, to make good and heroic closer to mandatory, and just reinvented the game almost entirely.

New Vegas was another polished A+ effort.

F4: As as you mentioned people hated the dumbed down conversations that come down to A. Enthusiastic "Yes" , B. Cynical "Yes" C. Assholish "Yes", D. Delay the inevitable Yes at least one response.

I can't even imagine how many people have rage-quit Bethesda games"for ever and ever" over the years, and come back to drop cash because they do keep making damn good and largely flawed games.

Last edited by wolfman; 12-06-2018 at 01:10 AM.
  #194  
Old 12-06-2018, 01:21 AM
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As one example of the stupid crap I'm putting up with in F76, there is a quest ("kill Evan") where you have to take out a zombie. When I first tried to finish the quest, I found that the guy was already dead, making the quest impossible to complete. Eventually the server glitched and I had to rejoin. I checked on Evan again--still already dead. A third time--not just dead, but the door to get to him permanently locked. I've checked on him on five different servers now and I still can't complete the quest.

This is happening because someone else gets to him first and the respawn time is too long. It wouldn't happen for that reason on a single player game. If it did happen, because a monster got him or something, I could use the console to respawn him (I've done this kind of thing many times before), or run a mod that auto-respawns him. But in F76, I just have to keep trying and eventually get lucky. Ugh.
  #195  
Old 12-06-2018, 02:00 AM
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like I said this sounds like all the hassles first gen everquest had ...when you had people on waiting lists to kill certain bosses and other things people have complained about …...
  #196  
Old 12-06-2018, 02:30 AM
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Yes, Daggerfall was impossible to complete without a patch. That was my first Bethesda game and I laugh at anyone who claims that New Vegas was pretty buggy.
  #197  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:06 AM
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Yes, Daggerfall was impossible to complete without a patch. That was my first Bethesda game and I laugh at anyone who claims that New Vegas was pretty buggy.
Same here. But I loved that game. I loved random stats, I loved classes, I loved that the guild quests forced you to chose one (though I think if one went a very, very specific path one could do both Fighters and Thieves...it's been a long, long while), I loved those horrible, horrible dungeons that were so easy to get lost in (better learn Mark and Recall, even if you don't want to be a wizard), I loved the timed quests, I loved the levelling system. Every iteration after that got better looking and simpler. I miss the complexity, and I'm in the 1% of RPG gamers who actually likes random stat generation.
  #198  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:39 AM
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Yes, Daggerfall was impossible to complete without a patch. That was my first Bethesda game and I laugh at anyone who claims that New Vegas was pretty buggy.
Complete? You couldn't even really start the first print. The first CD I got had a version where most stairs didn't work. They weren't recognized as solid so if you try to go up you just swam through them on the ground, and if you tried to go down you fell through to the floor. If there had been a floor built under them that is, a lot of the time you just fell through the game floor into space.

I think the spell crafting system didn't work at all either initially, and quests were fubared al well.
  #199  
Old 12-06-2018, 03:53 PM
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New Vegas was another polished A+ effort.
New Vegas wasn't Bethesda. It was Obsidian. (AKA the guys who left Interplay after making Fallout 2.)

There's a reason it felt more like a Fallout game then 3 or 4 did, because it was made by people from the company that created Fallout originally. (Though, the guys who made Fallout 1 left to form Troika, and after Troika went under, many returned to the various Interplay offshoots such as inXile and Obsidian.)

Bethesda did do the publishing, and licensed out the game engine, but that's all they did for New Vegas.

Last edited by Hoopy Frood; 12-06-2018 at 03:54 PM.
  #200  
Old 12-06-2018, 04:19 PM
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Same here. But I loved that game. I loved random stats, I loved classes, I loved that the guild quests forced you to chose one (though I think if one went a very, very specific path one could do both Fighters and Thieves...it's been a long, long while), I loved those horrible, horrible dungeons that were so easy to get lost in (better learn Mark and Recall, even if you don't want to be a wizard), I loved the timed quests, I loved the levelling system. Every iteration after that got better looking and simpler. I miss the complexity, and I'm in the 1% of RPG gamers who actually likes random stat generation.
I didn't like the pointless stats like learning to speak Centaurian or whatever. Each game successively got "dumbed down," though I thought Skyrim was an improvement in many ways (goodbye terrible levelling system that either cripples you or requires you to make illogical minmax choices). While Fallout 4 was a step back.

You could be in both Fighter's and Thieves guild, I'm pretty sure. You could also in Morrowind, though there was an ideal order to play those quests in if you didn't want to purge half the members. You couldn't join more than one Knight's guild etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfman View Post
Complete? You couldn't even really start the first print. The first CD I got had a version where most stairs didn't work. They weren't recognized as solid so if you try to go up you just swam through them on the ground, and if you tried to go down you fell through to the floor. If there had been a floor built under them that is, a lot of the time you just fell through the game floor into space.

I think the spell crafting system didn't work at all either initially, and quests were fubared al well.
I never had any issues with the first dungeon. Though one of the patches added a cheat (IIRC F11) that would teleport you out of the void if you got stuck in the environment.

One of the early main quests had some issue where it pointed you to a person who didn't exist, or never gave you such and such letter.

Last edited by thelurkinghorror; 12-06-2018 at 04:19 PM.
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