Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #351  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:49 PM
CelticKnot CelticKnot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 2 hours from somewhere
Posts: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepKillBeep View Post
Does it mention anything about those that bake them cakes will not inherit the Kingdom of God by any chance?
There are prohibitions on participating in pagan religious activities in Romans and 1 Corinthians. Many Christians extrapolate that to modern life, and see a homosexual wedding as going against God's word, so the prohibition applies.
And people can type it until eternity, but they can't convince me that decorating a cake isn't creating an artwork.
  #352  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:50 PM
CelticKnot CelticKnot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 2 hours from somewhere
Posts: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamerlane View Post
Marxists?
Socialists, Communists, whatever.
  #353  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:52 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 10,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
Socialists, Communists, whatever.
So you're holding firm to the position that the group in question was one with no significant presence or political power in america during the time period in question, then.
  #354  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:54 PM
jayjay jayjay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 36,617
The most interesting thing I've learned in this thread is that CelticKnot is some kind of Birchian revanchist. "Marxists"? Really? You actually believe the old canard that the civil rights movement was a Marxist plot to destroy democracy?
  #355  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:55 PM
CelticKnot CelticKnot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 2 hours from somewhere
Posts: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
Maybe we don't WANT to inherit your imaginary kingdom.
Fine. But we have been commanded to make disciples of all nations, and that means telling people the Gospel, even if others call it hate and try to stop us with lawsuits and legislation. And we have to live as the Holy Spirit leads us, even if that means we won't participate in what the world calls good. Refusing to participate in someone else's act of faith is not discrimination based on hatred.
  #356  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:56 PM
jayjay jayjay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 36,617
Every last bit of that was "blahblahblah" nonsense to me.
  #357  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:01 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 10,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
Fine. But we have been commanded to make disciples of all nations, and that means telling people the Gospel, even if others call it hate and try to stop us with lawsuits and legislation. And we have to live as the Holy Spirit leads us, even if that means we won't participate in what the world calls good. Refusing to participate in someone else's act of faith is not discrimination based on hatred.
Similarly, forcing Christians to comply with commerce law and not discriminate with respect to the customers they service is not discrimination based on hatred - so you shouldn't mind complying.

Also I've never heard such a blatant get-out-of-jail-free card regarding being evil as "we have to live as the Holy Spirit leads us, even if that means we won't participate in what the world calls good." According to Christianity humans are fallible; thus they can be deceived, either by some devil or their own desires, meaning that no human is qualified to say whether they are hearing the Holy Spirit or some selfish, evil urge. Meaning that, by the terms of your own religion, you just said "I can do anything I damn well please and I don't give a flying fuck about law or morality or what is right."
  #358  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:02 PM
CelticKnot CelticKnot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 2 hours from somewhere
Posts: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
The most interesting thing I've learned in this thread is that CelticKnot is some kind of Birchian revanchist. "Marxists"? Really? You actually believe the old canard that the civil rights movement was a Marxist plot to destroy democracy?
No, I believe that when Socialists realized that class warfare wasn't going to work to get them followers, they had to find another way to get a majority of people to side with them. They have two tactics now: Identity politics and environmentalism.


Destroy democracy? History shows us that people can vote for Socialism in a fair election once.
  #359  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:08 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 29,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
History shows us that people can vote for Socialism in a fair election once.
This will probably come as a great shock to the voters of Canada, Scandinavia, and much of western Europe.
  #360  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:11 PM
CelticKnot CelticKnot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 2 hours from somewhere
Posts: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
Similarly, forcing Christians to comply with commerce law and not discriminate with respect to the customers they service is not discrimination based on hatred - so you shouldn't mind complying.

Also I've never heard such a blatant get-out-of-jail-free card regarding being evil as "we have to live as the Holy Spirit leads us, even if that means we won't participate in what the world calls good." According to Christianity humans are fallible; thus they can be deceived, either by some devil or their own desires, meaning that no human is qualified to say whether they are hearing the Holy Spirit or some selfish, evil urge. Meaning that, by the terms of your own religion, you just said "I can do anything I damn well please and I don't give a flying fuck about law or morality or what is right."
I would never use that kind of language in a public forum.

Christians have the Holy Spirit, Scriptures, and other Christians to help them discern what is right and what is not. Society is not part of that list, even though they think they should be.
Christians who behave in violation of Scripture (the Holy Spirit will never tell us to do so) will have the Holy Spirit acting as a conscience, and if that person is in a good church, the church will also call them to account.
Someone will probably tell me that having a conscience is inadequate, but they don't understand the relationship of a true believer to the Holy Spirit.
  #361  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:15 PM
CelticKnot CelticKnot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 2 hours from somewhere
Posts: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
This will probably come as a great shock to the voters of Canada, Scandinavia, and much of western Europe.
Those nations don't have pure Socialism yet.
  #362  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:15 PM
Sicks Ate Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 5,869
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
There are prohibitions on participating in pagan religious activities in Romans and 1 Corinthians. Many Christians extrapolate that to modern life, and see a homosexual wedding as going against God's word, so the prohibition applies.
And people can type it until eternity, but they can't convince me that decorating a cake isn't creating an artwork.
Do you have kids?

Does Santa come?

Do they go trick or treating?
  #363  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:19 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 10,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
Those nations don't have pure Socialism yet.
But, according to you, America does. Because it's doing things!
  #364  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:21 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 29,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
Those nations don't have pure Socialism yet.
LOL. So you're moving the goalposts? They've voted for socialists and socialism many, many times.
  #365  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:22 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 10,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
I would never use that kind of language in a public forum.
I'm not hearing any objection to the sentiment, I notice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
Christians have the Holy Spirit, Scriptures, and other Christians to help them discern what is right and what is not. Society is not part of that list, even though they think they should be.
Christians who behave in violation of Scripture (the Holy Spirit will never tell us to do so) will have the Holy Spirit acting as a conscience, and if that person is in a good church, the church will also call them to account.
Someone will probably tell me that having a conscience is inadequate, but they don't understand the relationship of a true believer to the Holy Spirit.
That's exactly what somebody who was being influenced by the devil to defy the biblical command to love thy neighbor would say.
  #366  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:26 PM
andros andros is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Dejagore
Posts: 9,715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamerlane View Post
Marxists?
Forget it, he's rolling.
.
  #367  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:27 PM
Miller Miller is online now
Sith Mod
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Bear Flag Republic
Posts: 42,939
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
So Republicans invented it, but Marxists picked up the torch and ran with it, wanting to create a new society based on identity politics instead of ending it.
I'm going to go ahead and just assume you don't have a clue what "Marxist" means. But, again, the point is that American society has always been about identity politics, and it has always been the right that has pushed it. Yes, even today. Jim Crow was about identity politics. The Chinese Exclusion laws were about identity politics. The SSM bans that were passed in state after state were about identity politics. Identity politics exist because people like you keep identifying groups in American society that you can demonize, forcing the groups you are victimizing to draw together to protect themselves. It's not Democratic identity politics that keep the overwhelming number of black people for voting for the party of Lincoln. It's the endless tide of Republican policies that disparately impact black communities, the absolute hostility by the Republican leadership to doing anything at all to help black communities, and the constant fear-mongering of Republican politicians about black people that make them vote Democratic.

Quote:
White men were unfairly privileged and Asians are too successful in school, so let's build a world in which they are given disadvantages while others get pushed up. Let's create a society in which only the most vocal groups get to decide what beliefs are acceptable and anyone who doesn't heartily approve must be driven out of society.
Nobody is arguing for a world that disadvantages white men. This is a fantasy you have invented, which appears to be a skill at which you are well-practiced. What you're witnessing is an attempt to create a society that's actually equal for everyone involved. This, naturally, outrages you, because it is precisely the opposite of the outcome you want.

Quote:
As far as your perception of how ALL Christians treated all homosexuals. I can only pray that you will actually meet some real Christians.
I have been very careful not to say "all" Christians. I have specified that I am talking about right-wing Christians, and that I am talking about Christians like yourself. I'm fortunate to be acquainted with quite a few real Christians. I know what they're like, and they are not like you.
  #368  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:10 AM
Bone Bone is online now
Arbitrary and Capricious
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,036
Moderating

Quote:
Originally Posted by andros View Post
Forget it, he's rolling.
.
No. Just no.

[/moderating]
  #369  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:47 AM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
Fine. But we have been commanded to make disciples of all nations, and that means telling people the Gospel, even if others call it hate and try to stop us with lawsuits and legislation. And we have to live as the Holy Spirit leads us, even if that means we won't participate in what the world calls good. Refusing to participate in someone else's act of faith is not discrimination based on hatred.
So, you're absolutely certain that the baker would be forced to attend a non-Christian religious ceremony if he made the cake?
  #370  
Old 06-16-2018, 02:07 AM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,071
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
Fine. But we have been commanded to make disciples of all nations, and that means telling people the Gospel, even if others call it hate and try to stop us with lawsuits and legislation.
Translation: https://pics.me.me/help-were-being-o...t-14845498.png

To be honest, I'm really sorry about all the ways you're oppressed. It must suck to not be able to celebrate your holidays however you want (or indeed to have people not get outraged when they acknowledge that there are things other than your most important holiday in the month of December). It must suck to never see your religious beliefs represented by your elected leaders - it's not like 100% of congress and 100% of elected presidents share your religious beliefs.

I could keep going but this is boring and stupid, just like the idea that Christians are oppressed in any way in the USA. I'd say "stop playing the martyr" but that's kind of a core part of your religious beliefs, so instead I'll just ask that you maybe not call the kettle black by talking about "snowflakes" complaining about "microaggressions".

Quote:
And we have to live as the Holy Spirit leads us, even if that means we won't participate in what the world calls good.
So if god/the holy spirit tells you to kill your children, would you do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
No, I believe that when Socialists realized that class warfare wasn't going to work to get them followers, they had to find another way to get a majority of people to side with them. They have two tactics now: Identity politics and environmentalism.
This is just straight-up nonsense. At the time that identity politics and environmentalism were finding their start, most european countries still had massive socialist protests, socialist political parties, and widely read socialist philosophers.

Did you get this from Jordan Peterson or something?

The reality is that identity politics and environmentalism have fuck-all to do with the goals of socialism or marxism. These claims are nonsense and you need to either back them up or walk them right the fuck back.
  #371  
Old 06-16-2018, 10:56 AM
Ají de Gallina Ají de Gallina is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Lima, Perú
Posts: 4,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
Except that people that use leviticus to justify their discrimination against homosexuals. So, which is it? Does it do away with the laws against homoseuxality, or does it not? You want to have it both ways.
Ask them, not me. If Levithicus is their reason, perfect. If "Das Kapital" is their reason, perfect. If a video on "Reason TV" is their reason, perfect. If the SDMB is their reason, perfect. Just be open about it and accept the social consequences. I will, however, repeat that if wedding cakes are even remotely an big issue for US gays, they have it made.
I consider homosexual sex a sin but we should be very careful in making a laws simply because it's a religious belief that an action is wrong. I fully support any person who doesn't want to be involved in an action they consider wrong if such participation may be construed as support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidwithanR View Post
So, you're saying it's very simple for Catholics, you just make up whatever you want and then say God told it to you? That the actual reason you're against gay marriage is you personally don't like it?

No, I'm not and no, we don't. If you want to learn about the relation between Scripture and Tradition, you can follow this link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.


As a Catholic, I'm unwaveringly against Catholic religious same-sex marriage and will literally fight to prevent any law that would force us to do so.

In the civil life, however, my religious arguments should not be the basis of what makes right or wrong for anyone but me. If my religious arguments don't convince you, then I need others. The non-religious arguments for me are (and I won't continue much further into this, on this thread)
1) Once we open that option, all other options become valid, like three or four-way marriages. I think it's a net negative.
2) Once they are valid, the attacks on religious institutions, such as the Catholic church, both on the legal side and the harassment area will be worse, and almost none of those who claim openness and tolerance will stand defending my right to belief in my personal, private life the way I want. I won't support people so that, as a consequence, they will hurt me.


Finally, I don't care if my arguments convince you or not. They are good for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
Maybe we don't WANT to inherit your imaginary kingdom.
Perfect, but don't complain if you don't get there.
  #372  
Old 06-16-2018, 11:13 AM
Tamerlane Tamerlane is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SF Bay Area, California
Posts: 13,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ají de Gallina View Post


As a Catholic, I'm unwaveringly against Catholic religious same-sex marriage and will literally fight to prevent any law that would force us to do so.
You do realize there are a few actual Catholic bishops that disagree with you, as does the majority of the Catholic laity in the United States( as of 2013 ). Would you literally fight them? They are your spiritual brethren, after all.
  #373  
Old 06-16-2018, 11:23 AM
jayjay jayjay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 36,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ají de Gallina View Post
Perfect, but don't complain if you don't get there.
Great! Keep your religion crap off of me while I'm alive, then.
  #374  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:07 PM
andros andros is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Dejagore
Posts: 9,715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamerlane View Post
You do realize there are a few actual Catholic bishops that disagree with you, as does the majority of the Catholic laity in the United States( as of 2013 ). Would you literally fight them? They are your spiritual brethren, after all.
Hold up there... those Bishops do not agree that there should be a law requiring them to perform same-sex marriages. Which was what you quoted Ají de Gallina saying he would fight against. Broadly speaking, liberal Catholic clergy who are willing to perform those ceremonies, and even Advocate within the church for church approval of those ceremonies, are still not suggesting that the state should require them to do so, are they?
.
  #375  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:07 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
Actually, 1 Corinthians tells us that homosexuals are will not inherit the Kingdom of God, so we know they need to repent.
I always thought is was appropriate that it is 1 corinthians 6:9 that deals with this.

But, I ask you, is it only homosexuals that are mentioned there? Fornication is forbidden there too, so you need to check that they are virgins, and of course adulterers aren't going either, so you can't make a cake for a divorcee.

And then the cake maker, who makes works of art that he puts on such a high pedestal that he cannot stand to see them sullied by being used in a manner not of his choosing, is idolizing his skills and product, so he's going to be hanging out with the sinners in the after life as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
Let's create a society in which only the most vocal groups get to decide what beliefs are acceptable and anyone who doesn't heartily approve must be driven out of society.
That's the society we have, and it is dominated by straight white christian men. They get upset anytime anyone else tries to get a word in edgewise.
Quote:
Let's trade the idea of equality of opportunity for the ideal of equity with the fantasy that if there is equality of outcome for everyone, everyone will be equally happy.
We are so far from equality of opportunity that there is no trading. We just don't have it. Equality of outcome is something that only exists in strawmen arguments.
Quote:
As far as your perception of how ALL Christians treated all homosexuals. I can only pray that you will actually meet some real Christians.
I've met many, many christians who are welcome and accepting of all people. Jesus did tell them to love their neighbor as themselves, and not to judge, and to worry about the beam in your own eye before the mote in your brother's. While I may not share with them the belief in the divinity of Jesus, I can share with them values. From my experience, most christians are of this sort.

However, you are not talking about or representing Christians who follow the teachings of Jesus. You are defending people who use the bible to justify their desire to treat other people poorly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
There are prohibitions on participating in pagan religious activities in Romans and 1 Corinthians. Many Christians extrapolate that to modern life, and see a homosexual wedding as going against God's word, so the prohibition applies.
Once again, do they just take that one word out of 1 Corinthians 6:9, or do they also refuse to "participate" in other pagan rituals like the marriage of divorced adults, non-virgins, or idolaters? Do they refuse to participate in Halloween? Do they refuse to follow any of the "traditions" around Easter and Christmas that are based on pagan rituals?
Quote:
And people can type it until eternity, but they can't convince me that decorating a cake isn't creating an artwork.
Staking a point on stubbornness here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
Fine. But we have been commanded to make disciples of all nations, and that means telling people the Gospel, even if others call it hate and try to stop us with lawsuits and legislation. And we have to live as the Holy Spirit leads us, even if that means we won't participate in what the world calls good. Refusing to participate in someone else's act of faith is not discrimination based on hatred.
I suppose you could make the same argument that an Islamic terrorist murdering hundreds of people is an act of faith, not of hatred.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
Christians have the Holy Spirit, Scriptures, and other Christians to help them discern what is right and what is not. Society is not part of that list, even though they think they should be.
Christians who behave in violation of Scripture (the Holy Spirit will never tell us to do so) will have the Holy Spirit acting as a conscience, and if that person is in a good church, the church will also call them to account.
Someone will probably tell me that having a conscience is inadequate, but they don't understand the relationship of a true believer to the Holy Spirit.
They also have Jesus himself, telling you that love is the highest law.
  #376  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:13 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ají de Gallina View Post
Ask them, not me. If Levithicus is their reason, perfect. If "Das Kapital" is their reason, perfect. If a video on "Reason TV" is their reason, perfect. If the SDMB is their reason, perfect. Just be open about it and accept the social consequences.
Why would I ask them, when you are the one that is making the claim? Where do you base your claim and belief that homosexuality is a sin?
Quote:
I will, however, repeat that if wedding cakes are even remotely an big issue for US gays, they have it made.
What does that even mean?
Quote:
I consider homosexual sex a sin but we should be very careful in making a laws simply because it's a religious belief that an action is wrong. I fully support any person who doesn't want to be involved in an action they consider wrong if such participation may be construed as support.
I consider discrimination against others to be a sin. The difference is, is that I will only advocate for laws that prevent people from causing others harm, rather than laws that reward people for doing harm.
  #377  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:15 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 29,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ají de Gallina View Post
The non-religious arguments for me are (and I won't continue much further into this, on this thread)
1) Once we open that option, all other options become valid, like three or four-way marriages. I think it's a net negative.
This was used as an argument against legalizing interracial marriage. Why was it invalid then, but valid now?
  #378  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:15 PM
andros andros is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Dejagore
Posts: 9,715
..

Last edited by andros; 06-16-2018 at 12:18 PM.
  #379  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:35 PM
Pantastic Pantastic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ají de Gallina View Post
I will, however, repeat that if wedding cakes are even remotely an big issue for US gays, they have it made.
So you don't think it was a big deal when black travelers needed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ne...ist_Green_Book ? The fact that this particular incident was about cakes doesn't mean that it is literally only about wedding cakes.

Quote:
As a Catholic, I'm unwaveringly against Catholic religious same-sex marriage and will literally fight to prevent any law that would force us to do so.
No one has tried to pass a law that would force you to do so. Why are you writing about this like it's a realistic fear when no one has tried to do so and such a law would be struck down quickly?

Quote:
2) Once they are valid, the attacks on religious institutions, such as the Catholic church, both on the legal side and the harassment area will be worse, and almost none of those who claim openness and tolerance will stand defending my right to belief in my personal, private life the way I want. I won't support people so that, as a consequence, they will hurt me.
What is your evidence for this? Where in the US is there some pressure to enact laws that restrict anyone from practicing Christianity in their personal, private life? Specifically which laws and what practices are there that you fear? The idea that any flavor of Christianity is under attack in the US is ludicrous and simply has no basis in reality.
  #380  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:55 PM
Tamerlane Tamerlane is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SF Bay Area, California
Posts: 13,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by andros View Post
Hold up there... those Bishops do not agree that there should be a law requiring them to perform same-sex marriages.
Ah, good point. Bit of a misread there on my part. Question retracted.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 06-16-2018 at 12:56 PM.
  #381  
Old 06-16-2018, 03:37 PM
Urbanredneck Urbanredneck is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,279
Back to the OP, yes.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:00 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017