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  #1  
Old 06-14-2018, 10:43 AM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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New York AG suing Trump , his foundation and his kids

Cheeto has already tweeted that he is not settling this.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/14/polit...ion/index.html
  #2  
Old 06-14-2018, 10:50 AM
Ambrosio Spinola Ambrosio Spinola is offline
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The question in my mind is whether this was coming one way or the other, or if Schneiderman was sitting on it on account of being blackmailed by Michael Cohen/Donald Trump. I wonder if we'll ever know.
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:51 AM
Icarus Icarus is offline
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But....but....The Clinton Foundation!!!!!

....in 3, 2, 1
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  #4  
Old 06-14-2018, 12:15 PM
Shodan Shodan is offline
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No, this isn't anything like the Clinton Foundation.

Regards,
Shodan
  #5  
Old 06-14-2018, 12:17 PM
Ambrosio Spinola Ambrosio Spinola is offline
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No, this isn't anything like the Clinton Foundation.

Regards,
Shodan
Right, since the Clinton Foundation is a well-run charity with a documented history of saving lives, and has been thoroughly investigated publicly on multiple occasions by people trying to dig up any dirt they can on it.
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Old 06-14-2018, 12:22 PM
Icarus Icarus is offline
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Originally Posted by Ambrosio Spinola View Post
Right, since the Clinton Foundation is a well-run charity with a documented history of saving lives, and has been thoroughly investigated publicly on multiple occasions by people trying to dig up any dirt they can on it.
And it was chartered on the premise of actually doing good in the world, instead of just a fig-leaf money pot that the Trump Foundation is.
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  #7  
Old 06-14-2018, 12:25 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
No, this isn't anything like the Clinton Foundation.

Regards,
Shodan
Tell us why you think it is.
  #8  
Old 06-14-2018, 12:27 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Originally Posted by Ambrosio Spinola View Post
Right, since the Clinton Foundation is a well-run charity with a documented history of saving lives, and has been thoroughly investigated publicly on multiple occasions by people trying to dig up any dirt they can on it.
You guys are assuming the worst from Shodan, I’m willing to gibpve him the benefit of the doubt and assume he knows Trump Foundation is a cesspool and Clinton Foundation is not.
  #9  
Old 06-14-2018, 12:48 PM
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Well it wasn't the Clinton Foundation per se that was criticized, it was its offshoot the Clinton Global Initiative with which some thought foreign entities or powers could buy influence when Clinton was elected president. A couple months after the election and she lost the donations dried up and they closed it down.
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  #10  
Old 06-14-2018, 12:50 PM
HMS Irruncible HMS Irruncible is offline
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Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
Tell us why you think it is.
You know where this is going. "I want to suggest the Clinton foundation is actually worse, without bothering to support that implication."

Last edited by HMS Irruncible; 06-14-2018 at 12:50 PM. Reason: pronoun
  #11  
Old 06-14-2018, 12:56 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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I do keep hoping to see something substantive.
  #12  
Old 06-14-2018, 01:12 PM
The Other Waldo Pepper The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
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Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
Cheeto has already tweeted that he is not settling this.

You can just say “he’s settling this.”
  #13  
Old 06-14-2018, 01:13 PM
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Just exactly how does a charity payout more than it takes in and still have assets? Forget what the payouts were for, and some do look sleazy, can that simple question be answered? Are they not counting earnings or something?
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Old 06-14-2018, 01:14 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is offline
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"Mexico is paying for this, too!"

  #15  
Old 06-14-2018, 01:25 PM
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I'm sure the FBI has picked up on this by now - at least I hope so. Because it is abundantly clear that President Trump's every allegation is in fact a confession. The surest way to put him and his cohort behind bars is to take every accusation they make and investigate them for it.

An old friend used to say "Whenever you are pointing a finger at someone, you've got three more pointing back at you." It was never truer than with this lot.
  #16  
Old 06-14-2018, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
Tell us why you think it is.
You are asking him to do the opposite of what he is saying.

***

Everyone - drop the hijack about the Clinton Foundation. If there is something partuculaly relevant I'll reconsider but its a tall burden.

[/moderating]

Last edited by Bone; 06-14-2018 at 01:47 PM.
  #17  
Old 06-14-2018, 01:55 PM
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Really getting sick of these 'We get him THIS time!" articles.

Get back to me when you actually got him. Then I'll be happy.
  #18  
Old 06-14-2018, 02:00 PM
BobLibDem BobLibDem is offline
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Trouble is he just needs one cult member on any jury or 34 Republicans in the Senate, and nothing happens. Apparently the "treasurer" of this foundation had no clue that he was the treasurer until being questioned by investigators. The strategy has to be to be so corrupt that as soon as one scandal hits the news, another takes its place. Sort of like a cat trying to follow 100 laser pointers.
  #19  
Old 06-14-2018, 03:51 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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Possibly this makes more sense to ask in GQ but does anyone know if there's a reason that this is a lawsuit rather than a criminal proceeding?

Based on the legal theory given in the AG document, it looks like they're using a power to force a change in the management of the charity. I suppose that makes sense that it's better to keep a charity running than shut it down, when it's being misused, particularly if it still has money on the books. But, for example, this power is in part provisional on the AG detecting that the funds have been used criminally.

That strongly implies that there should be a criminal charge attached or being filed separately against the individuals involved. And it seems like they would file that at the same time as the lawsuit.

Am I wrong? Or would this be some sort of legal strategy to be able to create the discovery vehicle that they need to prove a criminal case? Or, alternately, would this be evidence that the case isn't very solid and they're largely filing this for political reasons?
  #20  
Old 06-14-2018, 03:56 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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Originally Posted by Grrr! View Post
Really getting sick of these 'We get him THIS time!" articles.

Get back to me when you actually got him. Then I'll be happy.
I was a bit bummed when I read about Nixon and how it took two years to get rid of him. But, yeah, it's been a bit annoying that not very many people - even on the Dope - got the message that this is going to take a few years. And since Trump's crimes include a bunch of financial stuff, apparently that's even longer to investigate than your average criminal case.
  #21  
Old 06-14-2018, 04:46 PM
Buck Godot Buck Godot is offline
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You guys are assuming the worst from Shodan, I’m willing to gibpve him the benefit of the doubt and assume he knows Trump Foundation is a cesspool and Clinton Foundation is not.
I think this is the first example I've seen of a reverse woosh. That is, a case where people get indignant about a comment they think you made facetiously, when in fact you were being serious?
  #22  
Old 06-14-2018, 04:55 PM
DinoR DinoR is offline
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Trouble is he just needs one cult member on any jury or 34 Republicans in the Senate, and nothing happens.
Just a quick look shows that New York only requires 5 of 6 jurors to agree in a civil trial. There's also a question in whether a jury trial is even applicable for the specifics of this case. The Senate doesn't necessarily help. The Paula Jones civil lawsuit against Bill Clinton was allowed to proceed without impeachment. It was actions under oath as part of that proceeding that later led to impeachment in the House.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
Possibly this makes more sense to ask in GQ but does anyone know if there's a reason that this is a lawsuit rather than a criminal proceeding?
Potentially, it's related to a decision about how good the case is. Civil trials have a lower burden of proof. It's a preponderance of the evidence (sometimes stated as more likely than not.) It's not the higher beyond a reasonable doubt standard that would be needed to get a criminal conviction.
  #23  
Old 06-14-2018, 05:03 PM
Ukulele Ike Ukulele Ike is offline
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I was a bit bummed when I read about Nixon and how it took two years to get rid of him...
Nixon’s political career began in 1946. It took us TWENTY-EIGHT YEARS to get rid of him.
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  #24  
Old 06-14-2018, 05:46 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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So they're finally following up on that? It was before the election that New York investigators realized that the "foundation" had never even filed the paperwork to be considered a charity.
  #25  
Old 06-14-2018, 05:48 PM
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Nixon’s political career began in 1946. It took us TWENTY-EIGHT YEARS to get rid of him.
Trump's started 31 years ago.
  #26  
Old 06-14-2018, 06:12 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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Potentially, it's related to a decision about how good the case is. Civil trials have a lower burden of proof. It's a preponderance of the evidence (sometimes stated as more likely than not.) It's not the higher beyond a reasonable doubt standard that would be needed to get a criminal conviction.
Apparently, Underwood issued a series of referrals to the Feds and the IRS alongside the lawsuit filing.
  #27  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:04 AM
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Am I correct that this is a civil suit, that the Trump-family criminals aren't being charged with any misdemeanors, let alone felonies?

IANAL, obviously, but I am continually dismayed that, say, selling loosies on the sidewalk is a criminal offense, but bilking donors and taxpayer out of millions is not. I'm not asking for an explanation of criminal codes, just to confirm whether this is another example where Mr. Bumble was right: "the law is a ass — a idiot."
  #28  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:09 AM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
Cheeto has already tweeted that he is not settling this.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/14/polit...ion/index.html
So, we can assume it will be settled soon.
  #29  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:32 AM
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Could the AG refuse to settle?
  #30  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:38 AM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is offline
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If they settle, who is actually going to pay the settlement?

Last edited by Czarcasm; 06-15-2018 at 11:38 AM.
  #31  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:40 AM
BobLibDem BobLibDem is offline
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If they settle, who is actually going to pay the settlement?
I wouldn't count on Cohen.

Seems to me that it shouldn't be a windfall for the state, the money should go to the unwitting donors.
  #32  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:47 AM
running coach running coach is online now
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If they settle, who is actually going to pay the settlement?
Depends on if the NY AG accepts pounds of flesh.
  #33  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:48 AM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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I wouldn't count on Cohen.

Seems to me that it shouldn't be a windfall for the state, the money should go to the unwitting donors.
I'd be surprised if there were any "unwitting donors." The name "Trump" was front and center, no one should be surprised it was all a scam.
  #34  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:08 PM
scr4 scr4 is offline
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I'd be surprised if there were any "unwitting donors." The name "Trump" was front and center, no one should be surprised it was all a scam.
Wasn't some of it collected as donations for veterans organizations?

Last edited by scr4; 06-15-2018 at 12:08 PM.
  #35  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:22 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is online now
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I do keep hoping to see something substantive.
If people are to maintain any respect for American democracy, Trump needs to end up in prison along with his cronies. He has committed an endless number of crimes and corruptions and sold our country out to the Russians and Chinese.

If all he gets is a pardon and then the next generation of democrats and republicans say 'lets look forwards, not backwards' then that will really damage faith in the US as a whole. It'll also make the US more prone to authoritarianism and military coups, because the public won't really respect the concept of democracy if it doesn't actually work.
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  #36  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:31 PM
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Trump's broke. That's the McGuffin, the crux of the biscuit. That's why he's grubbing for every penny he can lay a hand on. That's why when people come over and sit on his couch, he checks it for change when they leave. He is hooked for $25 million for his Trump University, and, best I can tell, hasn't paid a dime. Says he has billions, a billion is a thousand million. And can't come up with 25? He's scrambling to pay the vig on his debt load, just to keep the appearance of being afloat.

Trump's broke.
  #37  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:34 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is online now
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I think an honest accounting will find that after subtracting his debt obligations, Trump is at best worth 8 figures.

Still a lot of money, but had he taken his dad's inheritance and put it in index funds he would be an actual billionaire by now.
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 06-15-2018 at 12:35 PM.
  #38  
Old 06-15-2018, 01:15 PM
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I think an honest accounting will find that after subtracting his debt obligations, Trump is at best worth 8 figures.

Still a lot of money, but had he taken his dad's inheritance and put it in index funds he would be an actual billionaire by now.
I get so tired of this. Trump's father died in 1999, long after Trump had written The Art of the Deal, gotten famous, put up a jillion buildings, bought Mar-A-Lago, Kashoggi's yacht, etc. Trump's father left an estate when he died of roughly 300 million dollars, which was split between Donald Trump and his siblings.

The index fund thing is also inaccurate as it totally disregards the huge amount Trump has spent living over all those years

If this board still wants to think of itself as the smartest on the internet, crap like this really needs to stop. This information is not only readily available but I've posted it many times here myself. I don't like much of what Trump does and I didn't vote for him, but facts, as they say, is facts. There is simply no merit to the father's inheritance and index fund claims.
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:53 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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I get so tired of this. Trump's father died in 1999, long after Trump had written The Art of the Deal, gotten famous, put up a jillion buildings, bought Mar-A-Lago, Kashoggi's yacht, etc. Trump's father left an estate when he died of roughly 300 million dollars, which was split between Donald Trump and his siblings.

The index fund thing is also inaccurate as it totally disregards the huge amount Trump has spent living over all those years

If this board still wants to think of itself as the smartest on the internet, crap like this really needs to stop. This information is not only readily available but I've posted it many times here myself. I don't like much of what Trump does and I didn't vote for him, but facts, as they say, is facts. There is simply no merit to the father's inheritance and index fund claims.
My understanding was that the money in question was seed money that DJT received from his father back in the 70s.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/26/opini...her/index.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Hyatt_New_York

Now, assuming Trump worked a job, then this $1m would not go into living expenses. And given that the examples that we're talking about were saying that if Trump had simply put the money in stocks and sat on them (i.e., not actively managing nor living off dividends), then we would expect him to increased the $1m to $3.1b, according to this Dow Jones calculator:

https://dqydj.com/dow-jones-return-calculator/

And it should be noted, however you want to calculate it, the salient point is that there are some very good reasons to believe that Trump lives beyond his means and runs his businesses horribly. Which, true, has nothing to do with this particular little "what if" scenario, but it is a piece of evidence that he could have done better than he has.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 06-15-2018 at 02:56 PM.
  #40  
Old 06-15-2018, 03:14 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is offline
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...put up a jillion buildings...
I'm sorry, but what buildings has he put up(as opposed to slapping his name on them for PR purposes), and of the ones he actually put up how successful are they?
  #41  
Old 06-15-2018, 03:31 PM
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The good news for Trump: there are so many other simultaneous scandals around his administration that this is getting pushed down in the news. Currently at the top of CNN: Manafort has bail revoked and is going to jail, and in possibly related news, Trump's fixer Cohen signals he may be willing to cooperate with investigators. Trump has already been twittering away about Manafort: it is, naturally, "very unfair".
  #42  
Old 06-15-2018, 03:48 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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Am I correct that this is a civil suit, that the Trump-family criminals aren't being charged with any misdemeanors, let alone felonies?

IANAL, obviously, but I am continually dismayed that, say, selling loosies on the sidewalk is a criminal offense, but bilking donors and taxpayer out of millions is not. I'm not asking for an explanation of criminal codes, just to confirm whether this is another example where Mr. Bumble was right: "the law is a ass — a idiot."
It looks like most of the relevant crimes are Federal, so they issued referrals. The state doesn't itself care about self-dealing or federal campaign laws, just the charity, and the applicable laws for charities seem to be based around fines and shutting down the charity.
  #43  
Old 06-15-2018, 03:53 PM
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... Manafort has bail revoked and is going to jail, and in possibly related news, Trump's fixer Cohen signals he may be willing to cooperate with investigators. ...
Draining the swamp! One Trump criminal at a time.
  #44  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:01 PM
Starving Artist Starving Artist is offline
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My understanding was that the money in question was seed money that DJT received from his father back in the 70s.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/26/opini...her/index.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Hyatt_New_York

Now, assuming Trump worked a job, then this $1m would not go into living expenses. And given that the examples that we're talking about were saying that if Trump had simply put the money in stocks and sat on them (i.e., not actively managing nor living off dividends), then we would expect him to increased the $1m to $3.1b, according to this Dow Jones calculator:

https://dqydj.com/dow-jones-return-calculator/

And it should be noted, however you want to calculate it, the salient point is that there are some very good reasons to believe that Trump lives beyond his means and runs his businesses horribly. Which, true, has nothing to do with this particular little "what if" scenario, but it is a piece of evidence that he could have done better than he has.
Thanks for the post. Had to leave for work, more later.
  #45  
Old 06-16-2018, 06:22 AM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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he built original NYC Trump Tower but probably used borrowed money to build it.
  #46  
Old 06-17-2018, 07:35 AM
HMS Irruncible HMS Irruncible is offline
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he built original NYC Trump Tower but probably used borrowed money to build it.
Probably used borrowed money to build everything... that's what you do in business, never risk your own money.

The speculation is... did the businesses earn sufficient return to repay the loans? Who did he borrow from? How much does he still owe, who does he owe it to, and what are the repayment terms?

My pet conspiracy theory is that, believing Cohen could cover any of his indiscretions, he signed a pre-nup with Melania where she could divorce him and take most of his stuff if they get divorced (which includes his other childrens' inheritance). They take off back to Eastern Europe, Barron gets the smoking remains or Trump Organization, Trump himself is on the Edward Snowden retirement plan at an undisclosed location in Moscow.
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