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  #51  
Old 05-30-2019, 03:21 PM
Richard Parker is offline
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Is there a case where the Supreme Court ruled that the clause applied only to criminal cases, and not to elections?

Regards,
Shodan
Yes, many such cases, including the one already cited for you.

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Kentucky Union Co. v. Commonwealth of Kentucky, 219 U.S. 140, 152–53, 31 S. Ct. 171, 177, 55 L. Ed. 137 (1911)
Laws of a retroactive nature, imposing taxes or providing remedies for their assessment and collection, and not impairing vested rights, are not forbidden by the Federal Constitution. League v. Texas, 184 U. S. 156, 46 L. ed. 478, 22 Sup. Ct. Rep. 475. This court had occasion in a very early case to consider the meaning of an ex post facto law as the term is used in the Federal Constitution, prohibiting the states from passing any law of that character. Calder v. Bull, 3 Dall. 386–390, 1 L. ed. 648–650. In that case it held that such laws, within the meaning of the Federal Constitution, had reference to criminal punishments, and did not include retrospective laws of a different character. That case has been cited and followed in later cases in this court. See Kring v. Missouri, 107 U. S. 221, 27 L. ed. 506, 2 Sup. Ct. Rep. 443; Orr v. Gilman, 183 U. S. 278, 285, 46 L. ed. 196, 200, 22 Sup. Ct. Rep. 213.

In the latter case a former decision of this court, in Carpenter v. Pennsylvania, 17 How. 456, 463, 15 L. ed. 127, 129, opinion by Mr. Justice Campbell, was quoted with approval. It was therein said: ‘The debates in the Federal convention upon the Constitution show that the terms ‘ex post facto laws' were understood in a restricted sense, relating to criminal cases only, and that the description of Blackstone of such laws was referred to for their meaning. 3 Madison's Papers, 1399, 1450, 1579.
‘This signification was adopted in this court shortly after its organization, in opinions carefully prepared, and has been repeatedly announced since that time. Calder v. Bull, 3 Dall. 386, 1 L. ed. 648; Fletcher v. Peck, 6 Cranch, 87, 3 L. ed. 162; Watson v. Mercer, 8 Pet. 88, 8 L. ed. 876; Charles River Bridge v. Warren, 11 Pet. 420, 9 L. ed. 773.’
  #52  
Old 05-30-2019, 03:29 PM
TimeWinder is offline
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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
A more important question is, what have the people of this country done?
I agree with you in part, but the main thing the people of this country HAVE done is voted (or tried to vote) in huge numbers for the other party -- and had their votes suppressed, gerrymandered into irrelevancy, or effectively ignored because of a system designed a couple centuries ago to support slavery.

If all political regions were created algorithmically for non-partisan fairness, every eligible voter allowed to vote and those votes counted equally, and the candidates who got the most votes actually won the elections, the GOP would not exist today.

All of these things have gotten much, much worse now that the checks and balances are gone and blatant lawlessness is being pushed from the top. You can't really blame people for losing faith in the system when the system has moved from "seemingly unfair" to "blatantly unfair, and the people making it unfair are in charge of it."
  #53  
Old 05-31-2019, 08:10 AM
bump is online now
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Originally Posted by TimeWinder View Post
If all political regions were created algorithmically for non-partisan fairness, every eligible voter allowed to vote and those votes counted equally, and the candidates who got the most votes actually won the elections, the GOP would not exist today.
There would be an opposition party, but I suspect that in your scenario both parties would be more moderate and centrist than they currently are.

Or not... I'm not entirely convinced that a lot of our problems are caused in large part by low voter turnout, and that of that low turnout, a disproportionate amount are fanatics and zealots from either side.

So in a sense, we'd still over-represent the extreme ends of the party, if only because those people are motivated to go vote more than your average politically uninvolved person.
  #54  
Old 05-31-2019, 11:46 AM
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septimus is offline
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Originally Posted by TimeWinder View Post
I agree with you in part, but the main thing the people of this country HAVE done is voted (or tried to vote) in huge numbers for the other party -- and had their votes suppressed, gerrymandered into irrelevancy, or effectively ignored because of a system designed a couple centuries ago to support slavery.

If all political regions were created algorithmically for non-partisan fairness, every eligible voter allowed to vote and those votes counted equally, and the candidates who got the most votes actually won the elections, the GOP would not exist today.

All of these things have gotten much, much worse now that the checks and balances are gone and blatant lawlessness is being pushed from the top. You can't really blame people for losing faith in the system when the system has moved from "seemingly unfair" to "blatantly unfair, and the people making it unfair are in charge of it."
Thank you for this post.

I might add mandatory voting to your platform.
  #55  
Old 05-31-2019, 12:27 PM
Shodan is online now
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Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
Yes, many such cases, including the one already cited for you.
Thanks. I sit corrected.

Regards,
Shodan
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