View Poll Results: If the primary were today with only these options, who do you vote for?
Pete Buttigieg 54 65.85%
John Hickenlooper 23 28.05%
Abstain 5 6.10%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 05-30-2019, 10:21 AM
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Pete Buttigieg vs John Hickenlooper: Democratic Primary World Cup, First Round


This is a group stage match up for our Democratic Primary World Cup. Everyone is invited to vote in the poll. Feel free to add comments about why you chose one of these candidates over the other one.
  #2  
Old 05-30-2019, 12:24 PM
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Mayor Pete is my number one choice at this time.
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  #3  
Old 05-30-2019, 01:29 PM
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Well, I just said in the other thread that most of these matchups were no-brainers for me, but this is actually a really tough one.

I like Buttigieg, but I'm worried about his youth and gaiety from an electability perspective, and his very thin resume from an actually-doing-the-job perspective. So even though he's probably closer to me on policy than Hickenlooper, the experience factor just barely tilts the scales to Hickenlooper for me.

Just don't run these two on the same ticket or people will need magnifying glasses to read the bumperstickers.
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Old 05-30-2019, 02:25 PM
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Buttigieg has plenty of time ahead of him to build a political career. Once he does, I'm likely to support him. But he hasn't yet. Between a governor and a mayor, I'm going with the governor.
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Old 05-30-2019, 03:51 PM
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Neither of them have the experience I would like to see. I think voting for either is inviting obvious disaster. But Buttigieg is offensively under-qualified, so Hickenlooper gets a vote.
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Old 05-30-2019, 04:22 PM
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I abstain. This choice is a strategic one that should be made above my pay-grade.
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Old 05-30-2019, 04:46 PM
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foolsguinea, what experience would you like to see, if a governor isn't enough? I mean, my ideal candidate would have been some combination of governor, federal legislator, and cabinet member, but that's going to be awfully rare.
  #8  
Old 05-30-2019, 04:55 PM
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Pete! He's at the very top of my list.
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Old 05-30-2019, 06:37 PM
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This was a tough one for me too. I like Mayor Pete, and I think he adds something really different to the mix (and that's not just that he's gay, although that also adds another dimension for the voters to be exposed to). I like the way he answers questions and responds--or doesn't respond--to heckling/name-calling by the R's. On the other hand, Hickenlooper has been doing the TV circuit and I like a lot of what he says. I especially like the way he handled women's health issues when he was governor--furnish more access to health care/contraceptive care and that equals a huge decrease in pregnancy and/or abortion rates while still allowing the woman to make her own healthcare decisions.

Mayor Pete just squidges by. I want to see how he does during the debates. I think he will do very well.
  #10  
Old 05-30-2019, 06:55 PM
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Where's Hickenlooper on climate change? I get the impression that he's pretty centrist, so I'm kinda nervous about whether he'd bother to push through anything halfway ambitious to deal with global warming.
  #11  
Old 05-30-2019, 07:17 PM
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Hell, I'll go with Mayor Pete just because Hickenlooper ought to be prepping his run against Cory Gardner. We need the Senate, you mofos, and if Hickenlooper were running for Senate, this would be our most likely pickup.
  #12  
Old 05-30-2019, 09:10 PM
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Public service announcement...

Hickenlooper was mayor of Denver for eight years.
  #13  
Old 05-30-2019, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
foolsguinea, what experience would you like to see, if a governor isn't enough? I mean, my ideal candidate would have been some combination of governor, federal legislator, and cabinet member, but that's going to be awfully rare.
Of those kinds of experience, I rate governor pretty low, because the job doesn't actually deal directly with federal budgets or responsibilities. Inslee has at least served in Congress; Hickenlooper hasn't, and would have a rough start at least.

Last edited by foolsguinea; 05-30-2019 at 10:22 PM.
  #14  
Old 05-31-2019, 02:55 AM
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I think that literally the only thing that matters in Presidential elections is charisma. Nothing - not facts, not policies, not experience, not even basic competence - is remotely important. If you’re more charismatic than the other guy, you win. End of story.

Mayor Pete has charisma to burn. He could beat Trump. I think Hickenlooper might struggle. Therefore, I’m voting for Mayor Pete.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:11 AM
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Six of one, half dozen of the other. I went for the less pronounceable name, because I'd rather see a Butt than a Hick in the White House (not that either has a snowball's chance in Miami).

I wonder about the "Mayor Pete" nickname. It's better than expecting people to remember how to pronounce his name, but it also reminds people that his strictly political qualifications are having been mayor of a medium-sized city.

Still, "Mayor Pete for President" is marginally better than "Hickenlooper, Schmickenlooper - At Least He's Not Trump".

Regards,
Shodan (but it's pronounced Throat-Wobbler Mangrove)
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Old 05-31-2019, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Man View Post
I think that literally the only thing that matters in Presidential elections is charisma. Nothing - not facts, not policies, not experience, not even basic competence - is remotely important. If youíre more charismatic than the other guy, you win. End of story.

Mayor Pete has charisma to burn. He could beat Trump. I think Hickenlooper might struggle. Therefore, Iím voting for Mayor Pete.
This is so, so, so true. Well, at least the first part: I agree that charisma is supremely important, and I agree that Mayor Pete has charisma to burn. As for the last few sentences?

Could he beat Trump? I don't know. I mean, if they were aiming for the same voting bloc, and one was doing a better job of reaching them, this'd be true. But I don't think he'd pull votes away from people who previously voted for Trump; he'd have to inspire people who stayed home/didn't vote for a major party last time around to vote for him. And could he do that? Maybe, but I have my doubts. (Though to be fair, I have my doubts for all the Democratic candidates, so this isn't a knock against him in particular. Just saying I suspect Trump is going to win reelection.)

Would Hickenlooper struggle? Tbh, I've actually never seen Hickenlooper speak, so I have no clue what his charisma factor is. So you may be right, but I can't actually say I agree because I have no clue.

Therefore, you're voting for Mayor Pete. Well, I agree that YOU voted for him. But I haven't made up my mind yet, so I'm abstain for now. Not clicking abstain, just still thinking about it.
  #17  
Old 05-31-2019, 09:25 AM
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I feel he's triangulating towards the right by criticizing other Democratic candidates for promoting "Socialism." Is that the pragmatic thing to do for 2020? Maybe it is, but I fear this would lose more liberal Democratic votes than gain moderate votes.

Buttigieg seems to be doing a much better job of threadling this line.

Last edited by scr4; 05-31-2019 at 09:26 AM.
  #18  
Old 05-31-2019, 09:30 AM
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However, Mayor Pete seems to have little appeal for the black vote, so that's a potential problem unless he changes his approach. And I don't believe it's mainly because of his sexual orientation.
  #19  
Old 05-31-2019, 09:34 AM
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However, Mayor Pete seems to have little appeal for the black vote, so that's a potential problem unless he changes his approach.
Does Hickenlooper?
  #20  
Old 05-31-2019, 03:57 PM
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I also think that branding himself as "Mayor Pete" is a mistake, but for a completely different reason: He's throwing away a valuable asset. He has a weird name, and that's a political advantage. People talking about "how do you pronounce Buttigieg" are raising his name recognition, but in a way that can't possibly come back to bite him.
  #21  
Old 05-31-2019, 04:32 PM
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I am really coming to hate the democratic field many of the major candidates have no experience (Harris, O'Rourke, Buttigieg) or have so much experience I'd rather see them retire then win an election (Biden and Sanders). I'll vote for whoever over trump but just like with our governor here in Colorado I knew I'd be unhappy with my vote when I cast is just less unhappy than if the other guy won.

I like Hick he's smart and has good experience but he's put his foot in his mouth too much early on so he doesn't really have chance.

Last edited by Oredigger77; 05-31-2019 at 04:33 PM.
  #22  
Old 05-31-2019, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Man View Post
I think that literally the only thing that matters in Presidential elections is charisma. Nothing - not facts, not policies, not experience, not even basic competence - is remotely important. If youíre more charismatic than the other guy, you win. End of story.

Mayor Pete has charisma to burn. He could beat Trump. I think Hickenlooper might struggle. Therefore, Iím voting for Mayor Pete.
Not 100%, but Maybe 70% of the vote will follow basic charisma. But 20% will sign on as homophobes; and another 10% will decide small-town mayor is WAY underqualified. I'm afraid Mayor Pete would not be able to beat the Trump. A Hickenlooper-Buttigieg ticket might be OK.
  #23  
Old 05-31-2019, 06:04 PM
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There are some pretty good candidates running. I think the likes of Sen. Warren & Gov. Inslee would be pretty reasonable choices in any cycle. But there are also a few no-hopers like Buttigieg who are just far enough above Vermin Supreme to pretend they aren't no-hopers; and the press seem to want to talk about them, making better candidates look like no-hopers too.
  #24  
Old 05-31-2019, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Where's Hickenlooper on climate change? I get the impression that he's pretty centrist, so I'm kinda nervous about whether he'd bother to push through anything halfway ambitious to deal with global warming.
Iím not certain about any announced policy proposals, but Hickenlooper started his professional career as a geologist. He would probably be very receptive to the concerns of scientists.

I should warn you, though, that his persona is that of a professor type. Very nebbish. His charisma is on the opposite end of the spectrum as Pete. And I say that as somebody who likes him (and even met him once!)
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