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  #501  
Old 07-19-2019, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan_Liam View Post
Even if his mic was muted, he lacked any charisma, even Marianne Williamson was better than he was.

The last 8 minutes of this video convinced me to switch to Bernie.
Ah, you're watching Sam Seder. That explains it.

Thanks for the response.
  #502  
Old 07-19-2019, 02:55 PM
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...If the $15 minimum wage was not a point of focus by Sanders[/URL], do you really think Mayor Pete or most of the other candidates would have shifted their position leftwards on the minimum wage? ...
Would be nice if Sanders practiced what he preached regarding his own staffers, many of whom don't seem to be getting $15 an hour themselves:

https://www.aol.com/article/finance/...-pay/23773281/

Oh well.
  #503  
Old 07-19-2019, 06:22 PM
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Would be nice if Sanders practiced what he preached regarding his own staffers, many of whom don't seem to be getting $15 an hour themselves:

https://www.aol.com/article/finance/...-pay/23773281/

Oh well.
From your own link;

Quote:
The Post reports that in the letter it says field organizers are working around 60 hours a week, which drops their pay to around $13 an hour.
Adding

Quote:
According to the paper, it is not clear whether Sanders is aware of the pay issue.
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  #504  
Old 07-19-2019, 09:27 PM
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Ryan, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. By bringing up the "around $13 an hour" pay for the staffers, I don't imagine you're trying to argue that $13 an hour is actually the same as $15, so what are you saying? That it's somehow close enough? Suppose Sanders were to ask Walmart and amazon to pay their workers $15 an hour and they said they'd pay $13--do you think Sanders would agree that was close enough? Do you think he should? Would you accept it? Why? If President Buttigieg were to accept $13, would you feel the same way?

Or do you think that Walmart should pay $15, but it's okay for Sanders to pay less? If so, what's your reasoning?

--These really are genuine questions; I'm very curious about why you bolded the $13 an hour part as if it were somehow a Good Thing. Sanders has built a reputation on taking a hard line, $15 means $15, that kind of thing--a reputation that is attractive to quite a few voters. Sounds like you're saying that the line isn;t actually that strong, that under some circumstances $13 is really A-OK, and I'm wondering how you get there from Sanders's own rhetoric.

As for the "he probably didn't know" argument, here's the thing. Just a few months ago we heard about rampant sexual harassment of female staffers in the Sanders campaign back in 2016, and were told then that the candidate had no idea. If he didn;t know about the pay on top of not knowing about the harassment, we've got to begin wondering pretty seriously about the senator's administrative abilities. That's twice that he's hired people whose values don't seem to align with his, people whose actions have hurt his employees--and twice now that he's been completely unaware of what's been going on. It's one thing to be hands-off, it's another to be out of touch. --Obviously, "I didn't know" is better than "I knew and didn;t do anything," which would mean a) he's a hypocrite and b) he doesn't really care about those he employs. But "it is not clear whether Sanders is aware" is not an especially compelling defense, and it is certainly not an ennobling one.

Look, this is not the sort of thing that's going to kill a campaign, and my post was more a twitting than a pitting--a physician-heal-thyself, a comment about motes and planks, nothing more than that. But it's not a good look for Sanders or his campaign, and "well, it was pretty close and anyway he didn't know" doesn't change that.

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  #505  
Old 07-19-2019, 11:06 PM
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Bernie “Glass House” Sanders.
  #506  
Old 07-20-2019, 10:41 AM
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Ulf the Unwashed
Ryan, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. By bringing up the "around $13 an hour" pay for the staffers, I don't imagine you're trying to argue that $13 an hour is actually the same as $15, so what are you saying? That it's somehow close enough? Suppose Sanders were to ask Walmart and amazon to pay their workers $15 an hour and they said they'd pay $13--do you think Sanders would agree that was close enough? Do you think he should? Would you accept it? Why? If President Buttigieg were to accept $13, would you feel the same way?
First off, it's not stated that Sanders knew or even knows that this happened, but from the previous citation you provided, why didn't you provide a highlight of the difference of two dollars which it really was, as opposed to the perception that it was in line with the average minimum wage of around $7 to $8 as it is now?

Quote:
--These really are genuine questions; I'm very curious about why you bolded the $13 an hour part as if it were somehow a Good Thing. Sanders has built a reputation on taking a hard line, $15 means $15, that kind of thing--a reputation that is attractive to quite a few voters. Sounds like you're saying that the line isn;t actually that strong, that under some circumstances $13 is really A-OK, and I'm wondering how you get there from Sanders's own rhetoric.
I didn't bold the $13 as if it were a good thing, that's the supposition you made from what I replied back with. My bolding was to highlight the difference. Why did I have to highlight the actual amount, where as you left it to other readers to figure it out for themselves? Shouldn't you have just quoted the amount first? Because without reading the link people are not going to make the jump that they're earning $13 an hour, they're going to assume they're making, as I said before, $7 or $8 an hour.

Oh and to make note;

According to the Register, Sanders said the campaign will limit the number of hours staffers work to 42 or 43 hours per week so that they make the equivalent of $15 an hour.

So we've got him paying interns, unionising his workforce and putting money where his mouth is, what's Pete done?

Quote:
As for the "he probably didn't know" argument, here's the thing. Just a few months ago we heard about rampant sexual harassment of female staffers in the Sanders campaign back in 2016, and were told then that the candidate had no idea. If he didn;t know about the pay on top of not knowing about the harassment, we've got to begin wondering pretty seriously about the senator's administrative abilities.
This is kind of a silly argument, sure the buck stops with Sanders, one of the victims did not come forward until the latter half of 2018, and Sanders put out an apology in January 2019. So he did deal with it once it came to light.

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That's twice that he's hired people whose values don't seem to align with his, people whose actions have hurt his employees--and twice now that he's been completely unaware of what's been going on. It's one thing to be hands-off, it's another to be out of touch. --Obviously, "I didn't know" is better than "I knew and didn;t do anything," which would mean a) he's a hypocrite and b) he doesn't really care about those he employs. But "it is not clear whether Sanders is aware" is not an especially compelling defense, and it is certainly not an ennobling one.
Well I guess it is a compelling defense when at least one serious case of harrassment doesn't come out until late last year.

Speaking of ennobling defense, would you like to explain why Mayor Pete said 'All lives matter' Or his handling of the whole fiasco with South Bends police department?
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  #507  
Old 07-20-2019, 07:03 PM
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Whether he knew about it or not, it still looks bad for him. He's the candidate; it's his responsibility to know how his campaign is being run.
  #508  
Old 07-20-2019, 07:26 PM
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Whether he knew about it or not, it still looks bad for him. He's the candidate; it's his responsibility to know how his campaign is being run.
I'm sure it'll all work out.
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  #509  
Old 07-20-2019, 10:55 PM
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I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I don't see this as much of an issue. Sanders can be for a $15 minimum wage and still make an economic decision, based on current rules, to pay someone short of that.
  #510  
Old 07-22-2019, 11:00 AM
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I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I don't see this as much of an issue. Sanders can be for a $15 minimum wage and still make an economic decision, based on current rules, to pay someone short of that.
That depends on what is meant by the "current rules". If Sanders argues that it is legal to pay someone less than $15 per hour currently, that is correct but misses the point.

Sanders (presumably) believes that a $15 minimum wage is good economic policy, and the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. If that is the case, then he should be almost literally putting his money where his mouth is, and showing us all how much better off, overall, we would be by implementing a $15 MW. Since he is not doing that, that implies pretty strongly that there are cases where, for the employer, the benefits of $15 an hour do not outweigh the disadvantages. And I don't think that's a discussion he wants.

Once anyone, especially the proposer of a $15 MW, admits "I can't afford to pay my people $15 an hour", it leads inescapably to "what about all the other people who can't afford to pay $15 an hour? Why should you be exempt?"

Fair's fair. If less than $15 an hour is screwing over your employees, then don't do it. And especially don't do it in the context of a lot of complaining about how the US economy is leaving the little man in the dust, and how a $15 MW will pay for itself, etc.

Regards,
Shodan
  #511  
Old 07-22-2019, 12:29 PM
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This thread is about Pete Buttigieg.
  #512  
Old 07-22-2019, 02:56 PM
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According to Politico, Pete Buttigieg favors raising the minimum wage to $15/hr.
  #513  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:10 PM
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A Nashville radio host did an interview with Buttigieg, but his corporate masters refused to air it.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...interview-with
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:18 PM
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A Nashville radio host did an interview with Buttigieg, but his corporate masters refused to air it.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...interview-with
That's not how that article read to me:

Quote:
"It’s important to Pete to reach voters everywhere, and we’ve made it a point on this campaign to go outside the traditional political media bubble- that’s why we reached out to Blair about an interview," Buttigieg's spokesman Chris Meagher told The Hill. "He has a big audience, and it’s an audience that doesn’t typically hear directly from Democratic candidates for president. It was a great discussion and we are obviously disappointed that Blair’s listeners won’t have the opportunity to hear it."

A spokesperson for Cumulus Media told HuffPost that the decision not to air the interview was made “because of the large number of political candidates currently in this race.”
Is there more information than what's in the article?
  #515  
Old 07-22-2019, 04:01 PM
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That's not how that article read to me:



Is there more information than what's in the article?
Are you saying they didn't refuse to air it?
  #516  
Old 07-23-2019, 07:50 AM
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Cumulus Media says -
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“The decision was made by local programming management based solely on concerns related to the application of the FCC’s Equal Time Rule,” the spokesperson said in a statement on Sunday, “The effects of the FCC’s Equal Time Rule are widely understood and considered whenever these types of issues arise.”
It does not seem to me that Cumulus Media is Buttigieg's "corporate master".

It's one of the drawbacks of having dozens of candidates for the Democratic nomination. A two hour interview with Buttigieg turns into week's worth of snoozefest programming with Biden/Warren/Sanders/Klobuchar droning on while those listeners still awake change the station to recordings of grass growing.

Regards,
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  #517  
Old 07-23-2019, 09:57 AM
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I'm sure he meant the disc jockey's corporate masters. As far as them well understanding and considering the FCC’s Equal Time Rule:
Anderson Cooper's Talk Show Is a News Program, FCC Rules
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The government regulators have determined the talk show qualifies as news and is thus exempt from obligations to giving political candidates equal air time.
This was for Anderson's goofy daytime show. I haven't listened to this Nashville guy's radio program but if he regularly does interviews and talks about current events at all, he's probably exempt.
  #518  
Old 07-23-2019, 10:28 AM
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The promo for his show describes it as a mix of country music, celebrity interviews, and games. So it is not exactly a talk show, but if the owners of Cumulus Media wanted to argue that it was exempt from the Equal Time rule no doubt they would have a case. They apparently didn't want to, or thought it didn't match their market, or whatever.

The idea that they wanted to silence Mayor Pete is open to question. They did put the interview on the DJ's podcast, or whatever it was.

Regards,
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  #519  
Old 07-23-2019, 10:48 AM
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That decision is 8 years old. And in my linked article above:
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As the FCC's ruling points out, the TV show Entertainment Tonight has also qualified as a bona fide newscast after the agency decided its "role is not to decide, by some qualitative analysis, whether one kind of news story is more bona fide than another."
I think we can safely say the corporate honchos just didn't want to run it.
  #520  
Old 07-25-2019, 12:44 PM
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Pete will be nominated Vice President.
  #521  
Old 07-25-2019, 01:08 PM
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Pete will be nominated Vice President.
I think his problems with the South Bend African American community may preclude that.
  #522  
Old 07-25-2019, 03:54 PM
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My Gaydaughter#1 dismisses him as a "gatekeeper" saying "Mayor Pete acts as if there's only one way to be gay, and if you're not a white, middle-aged gay man in a long term relationship, you're a cry baby." Her cite is to come.

Last edited by dropzone; 07-25-2019 at 03:56 PM.
  #523  
Old 07-25-2019, 03:58 PM
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The Buttigieg candidacy is a classic case in which he should have tested the waters of national politics before jumping into the big horse race. Maybe his fame will help him in a future congressional run.
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Old 07-25-2019, 04:00 PM
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Gaydaughter#1's Citations:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...k-fil-a-gaydar
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-...munity-n988216

Last edited by dropzone; 07-25-2019 at 04:03 PM.
  #525  
Old 07-25-2019, 04:29 PM
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I'm gay, and this is the kind of sanctimonious, hypocritical virtue-signaling bullshit that I abhor.
Our government literally sends money to countries that execute gay people. US pop stars who fashion themselves as woke feminist allies go overseas to perform for these same murderous dictators, and they still remain gay icons. Other corporations have donated billions to the Republican party and suffer no backlash. But Chick-fil-A became the target of callout culture because someone somewhere decided to get the ball rolling by making it the subject of that day's Internet Outrage.

Mayor Pete is completely right. Here is someone else who agrees:
https://youtu.be/sO-msplukrw

I of course would never eat at Chick-fil-A. Because it's nasty, greasy fast food, and not because of some political donations they may have made in the past. There are worst companies in the world that are worthy of boycott. Tech companies like Twitter, Google and Facebook for example, who have used surveillance capitalism to completely destroy our political processess and long-standing social institutions. But taking those on is hard. It's much easier to boycott a regional fast food chain, and you'll get so many likes and retweets on social media!

Unfortunately, Pete will never win the nomination. Despite all their wokeness, the hardcore left will never accept a white man who does not act outwardly gay, lives a normal monogamous life, and doesn't speak endlessly about being oppressed
  #526  
Old 07-25-2019, 04:30 PM
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The Buttigieg candidacy is a classic case in which he should have tested the waters of national politics before jumping into the big horse race. Maybe his fame will help him in a future congressional run.
What better way is there to "test the waters of national politics" than running for President?
  #527  
Old 07-25-2019, 04:33 PM
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(Shrug) Tell my daughter. I'm staying out of it.

Last edited by dropzone; 07-25-2019 at 04:34 PM.
  #528  
Old 07-26-2019, 12:02 AM
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The Buttigieg candidacy is a classic case in which he should have tested the waters of national politics before jumping into the big horse race. Maybe his fame will help him in a future congressional run.
Problem is that because of his sexuality he would probably not be elected to a higher office in Indiana which is a conservative state. He wouldn’t be elected Governor or US Senator. Maybe a US Representative if that.

He is getting a lot of fame from his quixotic run, which I think is why he is doing this. I think a lot of them know they have no chance in hell but there is a payoff and a reward, if nothing else but name recognition.
  #529  
Old 07-26-2019, 02:48 AM
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My Gaydaughter#1 dismisses him as a "gatekeeper" saying "Mayor Pete acts as if there's only one way to be gay, and if you're not a white, middle-aged gay man in a long term relationship, you're a cry baby." Her cite is to come.
I certainly intend no disrespect for your daughter, but only disagreement with that statement, especially if her reasons for seeing it that way were motivated by his very savvy comment regarding Chik-Fil-A:

Quote:
Pete Buttigieg, the mayor of South Bend, Indiana, said he does not approve of Chick-fil-A’s politics, but “kind of” approves of its chicken.

“Maybe if nothing else, I can build that bridge,” the openly gay 2020 presidential hopeful said on the syndicated radio show, “The Breakfast Club” on Tuesday. “Maybe I’ll become in a position to broker that peace deal.”
He's doing exactly the right thing. He's responding to what is ultimately a very small-time, inconsequential issue, with a good natured and still dryly humorous answer. This is how to win votes, instead of shitting all over a very popular restaurant and all of its customers by extension with some feigned outrage making them out to be the Westboro Baptist Church to pander to all-or-nothing purity liberals.
  #530  
Old 07-26-2019, 07:04 AM
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Problem is that because of his sexuality he would probably not be elected to a higher office in Indiana which is a conservative state. He wouldn’t be elected Governor or US Senator. Maybe a US Representative if that.

Are there any House districts in Indiana where Democrats have a shot but are not basically reserved for the Congressional Black Caucus? I think he may be a very talented politician who is tragically stuck in the wrong state.
  #531  
Old 07-26-2019, 10:32 AM
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Problem is that because of his sexuality he would probably not be elected to a higher office in Indiana which is a conservative state. He wouldn’t be elected Governor or US Senator. Maybe a US Representative if that.

He is getting a lot of fame from his quixotic run, which I think is why he is doing this. I think a lot of them know they have no chance in hell but there is a payoff and a reward, if nothing else but name recognition.
I agree that running for statewide office in Indiana would be tough for Mayor Pete, but he can always move to another state like Illinois.
  #532  
Old 07-26-2019, 10:52 AM
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Are there any House districts in Indiana where Democrats have a shot but are not basically reserved for the Congressional Black Caucus? I think he may be a very talented politician who is tragically stuck in the wrong state.
House district 1 is a D+8 and held by a white guy, district 7 is D+11 and held by a black guy. Not sure if it was reserved for him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indi...onal_districts

Last edited by CarnalK; 07-26-2019 at 10:53 AM.
  #533  
Old 07-26-2019, 12:25 PM
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Of course winning a statewide election would be difficult. So is winning the Presidency. I want someone running for President to be the kind of extraordinary politician who can win even in a constituency that's tilted against him.

On the other hand, his unsuccessful Presidential run might boost his name recognition enough for a successful gubernatorial or Senate run. And after a term or three of that, then maybe he would be ready for a real run for the Presidency. He's young; he's got time.
  #534  
Old 07-26-2019, 12:43 PM
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I’m very active on Twitter and I’m really impressed by the behavior of the vast majority of Buttigieg supporters. It seems Mayor Pete’s call for decency really is trickling down.

I’m still seeing the same nastiness from Sanders supporters and the small group of Yang supporters is more a cult that has to comment on every political tweet with references to Yang.
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  #535  
Old 07-26-2019, 06:46 PM
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I certainly intend no disrespect for your daughter, but only disagreement with that statement, especially if her reasons for seeing it that way were motivated by his very savvy comment regarding Chik-Fil-A.
Disrespect away. Like father, like daughter, she's a crank.
  #536  
Old 07-27-2019, 04:44 AM
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House district 1 is a D+8 and held by a white guy, district 7 is D+11 and held by a black guy. Not sure if it was reserved for him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indi...onal_districts

Interesting, thanks. Looks like the district that contains South Bend is impossible given that Trump won there by 23 points. And although District 1 looks like it would be fine, that would involve moving—in which case he might as well go to Illinois and run statewide as asahi suggested. I do think it’s a shame to waste his talents, so I would be interested in hearing potential strategies to pull this off without being tagged as a carpetbagger.

Chronos thanks if he’s such a good politician, he can just do it in Indiana. But there are plenty of states where even the most talented Democrats would not be able to win statewide. And Indiana has become one of those.

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  #537  
Old 07-27-2019, 05:31 AM
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As far as the US House, Senate and governorships go, successful Indiana Democrats have been Republican light: Evan Bayh, Frank O'Bannon, Pete Visclosky, Joe Donnelly. Donnelly (defeated in 2018 as an incumbent Senator) held H Dist 2 (South Bend) prior to its current occupant. H Dist 2's borders have since been redrawn, making it very difficult for a D to claim that seat. With this presidential bid giving him name and facial recognition, Mayor Pete could give Rep Walorski a run for her money - she's really not all that popular. I could also see him doing well running against Governor Holcomb, but not well enough to win.
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Old 07-27-2019, 12:36 PM
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Krystal Ball's radar takes a look at the opioid crisis and Pete Buttigieg's connection.
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Old 07-27-2019, 03:37 PM
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Personal, O’Donnelly’s loss in a “blue wave” year suggests to me that Indiana has, like Missouri, moved out of reach for Democrats.
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Old 07-28-2019, 04:56 AM
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Are there any House districts in Indiana where Democrats have a shot but are not basically reserved for the Congressional Black Caucus? I think he may be a very talented politician who is tragically stuck in the wrong state.
Maybe the Ninth District. It includes Bloomington, New Albany, and Jeffersonville. Bloomington in a liberal college town while Democrats can compete in New Albany and Jeffersonville. Currently, a Republican has represented the Ninth, but that has not always been the case.

Last edited by The_Peyote_Coyote; 07-28-2019 at 04:58 AM.
  #541  
Old 07-28-2019, 08:27 AM
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Maybe the Ninth District. It includes Bloomington, New Albany, and Jeffersonville. Bloomington in a liberal college town while Democrats can compete in New Albany and Jeffersonville. Currently, a Republican has represented the Ninth, but that has not always been the case.
You sound local but they changed the boundaries after the last census so the historical winners are less meaningful. On the wiki link above, they list the lean of the 9th as R+13.
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Old 07-28-2019, 12:01 PM
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Personal, O’Donnelly’s loss in a “blue wave” year suggests to me that Indiana has, like Missouri, moved out of reach for Democrats.
I don't disagree that it's improbable that Pete would win a House seat. He would not win Indiana in the general.
  #543  
Old 07-29-2019, 08:55 PM
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I'm hoping that his alleged "unpopular with people of color" problem is exaggerated and here is someone that agrees with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTRS...ature=youtu.be

^ A woman of color making the case for Pete. She sees the same things in Pete that I do. He's calm and smart and kind. A welcome antidote to Trump.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by not what you'd expect View Post
I'm hoping that his alleged "unpopular with people of color" problem is exaggerated and here is someone that agrees with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTRS...ature=youtu.be

^ A woman of color making the case for Pete. She sees the same things in Pete that I do. He's calm and smart and kind. A welcome antidote to Trump.
One "people of color" problem that Pete may have is his being gay. This is strictly anecdotal but my own experience is that there are a lot of African Americans and Hispanics who are socially conservative and might have issues with a gay candidate.
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:50 PM
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My colleague* in Malta says tigiega, plural tigieg is the name for chicken. So the correct meaning of Buttigieg is "papa-chickens" as Gyrate (post 34) almost had it.

*Natalino Fenech, author of Birds of Malta is on facebook. See his superb bird photos

Johanna, you certainly know Maltese is a dying language.
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Old 08-14-2019, 05:38 AM
not what you'd expect is online now
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I saw a report yesterday, but now I can't find it again to cite it, but Pete polled very well in Iowa. He and Warren were almost tied at the top of the list.

Also, Jonathan Capehart was on MSNBC talking about having just returned from his family reunion in South Carolina and he was very surprised at how much his older relatives really like Mayor Pete. I gather they still sort of prefer Biden, but they are not against the idea of Pete.
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:41 PM
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I saw a report yesterday, but now I can't find it again to cite it, but Pete polled very well in Iowa. He and Warren were almost tied at the top of the list.
I couldn't find that either. But maybe you meant the Monmouth poll where he polled at 8%?

It's not his highest polling number, but it's up there. In the same poll, Sanders polled at 9% and Warren at 19% in Iowa.
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:58 PM
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No, it was a poll that showed Warren at 18. something and Pete at 18. something, but I can't find it again.
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Old 08-14-2019, 05:15 PM
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538's poll roundup doesn't mention it, so either it's super recent or not a credible poll. I do note that July 11 poll which somehow has him leading Iowa with 25%, which is...not consistent with other available data.
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Old 08-14-2019, 05:15 PM
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Ah OK, I think I found it at the Pete subreddit. It's an Iowa State Fair straw poll.

It has Pete at 17% and Warren at 16%.

It has the Republicans winning 51/49.

It looks like Pete had a great time at the Iowa State Fair. There are pictures of him riding a giant slide, riding the Sky glide and eating a bunch of food.
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