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  #1  
Old 11-16-2017, 09:42 AM
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Now, Al Franken


Accused of sexual harassment, with apparent photographic evidence.

Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny About It

ETA: from looking at the picture it's looks more like he's not actually groping her but just pretending to for comic effect. Not sure how that translates.

Last edited by Fotheringay-Phipps; 11-16-2017 at 09:45 AM.
  #2  
Old 11-16-2017, 09:48 AM
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Well, shit. I've always admired him.

What the hell, guys?!
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:52 AM
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I can't tell from that photo whether or not Franken is actually touching her (and she was asleep at the time, so she wouldn't know).

The story of the forced kiss, however (if true, and I have no reason to believe otherwise) is disturbing enough.
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
Accused of sexual harassment, with apparent photographic evidence.

Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny About It

ETA: from looking at the picture it's looks more like he's not actually groping her but just pretending to for comic effect. Not sure how that translates.
To me, it looks like his left hand is still coming in for a landing, but the right appears to have made contact.
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:53 AM
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That's it. The only men who never molested anyone are my father, my husband and my son. Probably not my brother, although, he works in Hollywood, so who knows anymore?
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:55 AM
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Yeah, I saw that and was about to start a thread myself.

Fuck and damn.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:02 AM
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Should probably resign. The governor is a D and would appoint a replacement through next year.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:03 AM
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Well, good bye Al. Time for a special election!
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:08 AM
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For what it's worth, I don't think he actually groped her while she was sleeping. That's her flack vest she's wearing, and it doesn't seem like his fingers are actually touching it. It looks like he was pretending to grope her and have the photographer take a photo because he thought it would be funny. But that doesn't excuse it at all. Of course, it is also demeaning and sexually objectifying her.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:10 AM
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Is that a reputable source? It looks like an ABC radio station out of LA, but I know nothing of its reputation.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:11 AM
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Should probably resign. The governor is a D and would appoint a replacement through next year.
I'm curious: Would your recommendation change if the governor were an R?
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:11 AM
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For what it's worth, I don't think he actually groped her while she was sleeping. That's her flack vest she's wearing, and it doesn't seem like his fingers are actually touching it. It looks like he was pretending to grope her and have the photographer take a photo because he thought it would be funny. But that doesn't excuse it at all. Of course, it is also demeaning and sexually objectifying her.
And one article I read said he forcibly kissed her during a rehearsal for a skit. She objected, and she said he then started acting like a dick to her.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:14 AM
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I'm curious: Would your recommendation change if the governor were an R?
I'm not basing my recommendation on the party of the governor. That was just information on what would happen afterwards.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:14 AM
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Imagine what he did back in the early days of SNL while fueled on Cocaine?

The bigger question is how many Senators have sexual harassment in the past? I'm guessing it is a disgusting number. Have you seen the protections they put in place for themselves from Federal workers complaining? It is a complicated procedure that takes 90 days minimum and must be completed within 180 days. I would like to find a link to this procedure; I would laugh about how silly it sounds if it wasn't so deadly serious. I heard about it just last night on the Opposition with Jordan Klepper.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:15 AM
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Apparently she's a regular on Hannity. I'm sure he won't have any issues seeing the absolute worst on this issue.

It's hard to be the side that does the right thing when the other side couldn't give one fuck about what's right but that's what the Dems have to do. Show these fucks that ultimately even if it hurts you you have to do the right thing.

Al should be criticized and the cards should fall where they fall.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:16 AM
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WTF, Al!

I thought you were one of the good ones...
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  #17  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:19 AM
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And one article I read said he forcibly kissed her during a rehearsal for a skit. She objected, and she said he then started acting like a dick to her.
That's in the article linked to in the OP.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:21 AM
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Is that a reputable source? It looks like an ABC radio station out of LA, but I know nothing of its reputation.
#BelieveWomen?
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:25 AM
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That's in the article linked to in the OP.
Ah. I couldn't get to that site from my work machine, so I saw it on another news site.
  #20  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:29 AM
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Is that a reputable source? It looks like an ABC radio station out of LA, but I know nothing of its reputation.
Are you saying the pic isn't real?
  #21  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:39 AM
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Statement from Franken to Business Insider
Quote:
In a statement sent to Business Insider, Franken apologized to Tweeden.

"I certainly don't remember the rehearsal for the skit in the same way, but I send my sincerest apologies to Leeann. As to the photo, it was clearly intended to be funny but wasn't. I shouldn't have done it," he said.
  #22  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:45 AM
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Well, this is awkward, isn't it Al?

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 11-16-2017 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:46 AM
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[off topic] When I (in Thailand) click the kabc link, or even attempt to go to kabc home page, I see
Quote:
www.kabc.com - Access Denied
Error code 16
This request was blocked by the security rules
...
Your IP: ...
Seems odd.
  #24  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post
I can't tell from that photo whether or not Franken is actually touching her (and she was asleep at the time, so she wouldn't know).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Folacin View Post
To me, it looks like his left hand is still coming in for a landing, but the right appears to have made contact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by filmore View Post
For what it's worth, I don't think he actually groped her while she was sleeping. That's her flack vest she's wearing, and it doesn't seem like his fingers are actually touching it. It looks like he was pretending to grope her and have the photographer take a photo because he thought it would be funny. But that doesn't excuse it at all. Of course, it is also demeaning and sexually objectifying her.
Quote:
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Are you saying the pic isn't real?
Perhaps whoever took the photo will speak up about the events.
  #25  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:47 AM
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What the hell, man? I'm starting to worry that when this is all over, the Capitol will be empty except for one guy with a floor polisher, and the only person left in Hollywood will be like, Kirk Cameron or some shit.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:49 AM
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What the hell, man? I'm starting to worry that when this is all over, the Capitol will be empty except for one guy with a floor polisher, and the only person left in Hollywood will be like, Kirk Cameron or some shit.
From where I'm at, that sounds like a delightful vision for the future.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:49 AM
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While I've been thinking Franken would be a solid choice for 2020, I'm not surprised he's not a boy scout. I'm sure this isn't the only time he's done something lewd over the past 40-odd years. Or done coke. Or done any number of questionable things. Better it comes out now instead of after he wins the nomination. Although, even that wasn't a campaign-ender for Trump. But this may end up rightfully costing him his political career.

Not saying what he did was right, groping and shoving one's tongue into another person's mouth is wrong no matter who does it, but interesting this is coming from a Hannity regular at this exact moment. Also interesting how our board's known conservatives have suddenly taken such a strong interest in sexual harassment, but only in this thread. Strange, that.

Last edited by Happy Lendervedder; 11-16-2017 at 10:50 AM.
  #28  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:50 AM
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What the hell, man? I'm starting to worry that when this is all over, the Capitol will be empty except for one guy with a floor polisher, ...
You say the first part like that would be a bad outcome. I would not be upset if we had a complete reset on Congress & the Senate (and President for that matter). Beside, the odds are fairly good most of the few Women Congressman & Senators would be there with the one guy with a floor polisher.
  #29  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:52 AM
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He wasn't a senator when it happened, just saying. Can the Senate kick him to the curb? This crap has got to stop. Will men ever learn? It is possibly gonna take years to clean this mess up. I hope they are running scared on capital hill.
I would like to call out all women who have been sexually assaulted by these creeps to stand up and scream it out! I have NO more tolerance for this left in me.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:53 AM
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Going after Bill again, too.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartanntp

Why is this thread in Elections?
  #31  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:58 AM
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The women on capital hill should start filing harassment lawsuits.
  #32  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:00 AM
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Until 15 minutes ago, pretty much my favorite Senator.

What a pathetic apology. Fuck him. Sure, there's a non-zero chance this is all manufactured, but there's also a non-zero chance Franken is a lizard person. Fuck all harassers and assaulters; every last one of them. If he's a tenth of the person I thought he was 15 minutes ago, he'll give a much better apology and then resign.

Fuck 'em all. Let the hammer fall where it may. Hopefully liberal and progressive office-holders won't let me down, and will refrain from defending Franken or justifying his behavior or attacking his accuser.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:04 AM
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I take it the Alabama Senate hopeful is probably dancing for joy right about now?
  #34  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:05 AM
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I'm sure this isn't the only time he's done something lewd over the past 40-odd years.
Don't downplay it. He didn't just do 'something lewd' like tell a dirty joke or engage in naught consensual activities, he forced his tongue into an unwilling person's mouth, harassed her for resisting him, and then used her body to take a sexual picture while she was sleeping with clear malicious intent.

Quote:
Not saying what he did was right, groping and shoving one's tongue into another person's mouth is wrong no matter who does it, but interesting this is coming from a Hannity regular at this exact moment.
This is exactly like saying "I'm not racist, but...". And when you shove the 'not saying' butt or the 'not racist' butt into your statement, it nullifies the 'not'. And it's REALLY not that "interesting" that sexual assault victims are coming forward in the wake of the recent revelations and the current environment of actually caring about sexual assaults.

Quote:
Also interesting how our board's known conservatives have suddenly taken such a strong interest in sexual harassment, but only in this thread. Strange, that.
If you're going that route, it's also interesting how this board's known liberals have suddenly taken such a strong interest in victim blaming and dismissing allegations, but only in this thread.
  #35  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:06 AM
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Is that a reputable source? It looks like an ABC radio station out of LA, but I know nothing of its reputation.
The source is a statement by the accuser posted on the website of the radio station for which she is a news anchor.
  #36  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:07 AM
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What the hell, man? I'm starting to worry that when this is all over, the Capitol will be empty except for one guy with a floor polisher, and the only person left in Hollywood will be like, Kirk Cameron or some shit.
I really don't understand the use of the word 'worry' here. Not that it's going to happen, but clearing out Washington would be such a beautiful thing to witness.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:07 AM
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FWIW, I don't think Franken needs to resign over this. Though it could get interesting if other people then step forward, as has been the pattern.

Last edited by Fotheringay-Phipps; 11-16-2017 at 11:08 AM.
  #38  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:08 AM
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Don't downplay it. He didn't just do 'something lewd' like tell a dirty joke or engage in naught consensual activities, he forced his tongue into an unwilling person's mouth, harassed her for resisting him, and then used her body to take a sexual picture while she was sleeping with clear malicious intent.
What was the malicious intent?
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If you're going that route, it's also interesting how this board's known liberals have suddenly taken such a strong interest in victim blaming and dismissing allegations, but only in this thread.
Who has done that in this thread?

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 11-16-2017 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:13 AM
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First, all cards on that table, I once sexually harassed a young woman until she married me 39 years ago.

I don't know where this incident falls on the scale, I don't give Al any special consideration because I like his politics and enjoy his humor, but I'll need more information than an obviously posed and comic picture and an accusation from a political opponent. He apologized for his behavior, time will tell if that was sufficient. An isolated accusation, and one with less than clear implications always has to be viewed without bias, but if other women make similar reports about Franken we'll have to put him under the microscope.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:15 AM
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Don't downplay it. He didn't just do 'something lewd' like tell a dirty joke or engage in naught consensual activities, he forced his tongue into an unwilling person's mouth, harassed her for resisting him, and then used her body to take a sexual picture while she was sleeping with clear malicious intent.



This is exactly like saying "I'm not racist, but...". And when you shove the 'not saying' butt or the 'not racist' butt into your statement, it nullifies the 'not'. And it's REALLY not that "interesting" that sexual assault victims are coming forward in the wake of the recent revelations and the current environment of actually caring about sexual assaults.



If you're going that route, it's also interesting how this board's known liberals have suddenly taken such a strong interest in victim blaming and dismissing allegations, but only in this thread.
Seriously, who's victim blaming in this thread? Who's dismissing allegations? I'm not victim blaming nor dismissing, but nice try; I'm saying this could end his career and rightfully so. I'm not downplaying it, I'm saying there's a good chance he is guilty as charged, and probably done other shit and possibly worse. And I say this as someone who really, really wanted Al Franken to run for president. Not anymore.

But there's almost a glee from conservatives in pointing out a Democratic Senator's harassing behavior which doesn't exist in other threads on Roy Moore. Or Bill O'Reilly. Or that old guy who ran Fox News.

Last edited by Happy Lendervedder; 11-16-2017 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:16 AM
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What was the malicious intent?
At a minimum, ridicule and humiliation. And that's if there was no actual touching.
  #42  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:17 AM
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... and the only person left in Hollywood will be like, Kirk Cameron or some shit.
No way that dude gets out of this clean!
  #43  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:17 AM
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Apparently she's a regular on Hannity. I'm sure he won't have any issues seeing the absolute worst on this issue.

It's hard to be the side that does the right thing when the other side couldn't give one fuck about what's right but that's what the Dems have to do. Show these fucks that ultimately even if it hurts you you have to do the right thing.

Al should be criticized and the cards should fall where they fall.
Bolding mine
No pass for usually doing the right thing
  #44  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:20 AM
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At a minimum, ridicule and humiliation. And that's if there was no actual touching.
Are we to be similarly outraged by millions of photos taken by college students, like these?

ETA: Is this an "always wrong" thing? It's never funny? It's always unacceptable?

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 11-16-2017 at 11:22 AM.
  #45  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:21 AM
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... An isolated accusation, and one with less than clear implications always has to be viewed without bias, but if other women make similar reports about Franken we'll have to put him under the microscope.
This sounds vaguely like some ancient religious law where multiple women are required to accuse a man before she is to be believed or taken seriously.
  #46  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:22 AM
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But there's almost a glee from conservatives in pointing out a Democratic Senator's harassing behavior which doesn't exist in other threads on Roy Moore.
I disagree with this.

But beyond that, the situation is very different. As someone noted above, the Franken seat will be Democratic in any event. So it's just a matter of one guy paying a personal price for his own actions. In the case of Moore - in a close race in a close Senate - it's about the national balance of power potentially changing due to the actions of one bozo 35-40 years ago.
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At a minimum, ridicule and humiliation.
I don't see that. He probably just thought it was funny.

Not to say she's wrong to be offended. But I don't see any reason to assume that was his intention. More like "look at me, Bad Boy that I am ..."
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:23 AM
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I forgot to mention: God dammit Al Franken!!
  #48  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:24 AM
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He doesn't need anyone here to defend or justify his behavior, even a little bit. And shame on anyone for trying.

If there's some other explanation, it will come out. He'll defend himself (and it looks like he'll defend himself whether he did it or not). But it's no more likely to be a lie or miscommunication here than for Moore or Trump or other accused abusers (at least for single accusations).

The Democrats need to be the party that gives the boot to abusers and harassers, now and going forward (even though they haven't in the past), since the Republicans obviously aren't.

This will go on and get worse, and we'll "lose" more and more heroes, and GOOD. Our culture and society need a giant kick in the ass, on every political side, with regards to sexual mistreatment.

Fuck em all. Let the hammer fall where it may.
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  #49  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:26 AM
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... Eta: Is this an "always wrong" thing? It's never funny? It's always unacceptable?
iokiaddi?

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 11-16-2017 at 11:26 AM.
  #50  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:29 AM
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Occurs to me that from here on out there will be MANY men, who otherwise would, choose not to run for office due to harassment/assault skeletons in their closet.

Many of them will be older and established, which it seems to me will result in more younger people running for office on average than has previously been the case.

Or could result in less experienced and accomplished (and less rapey) older men running.
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