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Old 07-10-2019, 12:47 PM
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If Epstein information and testimony directly implicates Trump, what happens?


Suppose there is evidence and/or testimony that comes up in the Epstein case that implicates Trump in the rape of children. What would be the short and medium-term political fallout?

My guess -- if the evidence is allegations from victims of Epstein that also implicate Trump, similar to the past allegations from victims against Trump, nothing will change. Supporters will continue to find ways to rationalize supporting him; Republican officials will change nothing; etc. Maybe the Democratic Congress would start a formal investigation into whether Trump raped children, but I doubt it.

If the evidence includes Epstein's own testimony (or the testimony of other bigwigs who end up in big trouble), in an effort to get shorter sentences, most of the above would be the same but the Congress would almost certainly start a formal investigation. The DOJ still wouldn't (even if federal crimes, like transport across state lines, were involved), I'm almost certain -- Barr has shown clearly that he values defending Trump over the law and justice.

If the evidence includes audio or video of Trump discussing (or, og forbid, doing) the abuse of chidren, then I predict chaos -- most Trump supporters would still support Trump and insist these are fake (as would Trump himself, I would presume), and Republicans in office would split down the middle (even as most would try to avoid talking about it at all). Congressional investigation and impeachment would be almost certain, but I have no idea if it would end with Trump's removal from office.

There are probably other possibilities in between these, but this is what I think. These are mostly guesses, of course.
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:12 PM
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Furrowed brows from the GOP. Cries of "fake news" and "but Clinton". Not much else.
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:38 PM
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:43 PM
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ďYou know what else they say about my people? The polls, they say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and rape a child and I wouldnít lose any voters, okay? Itís like incredible.Ē
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:03 PM
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https://www.vox.com/2019/7/9/2068634...p-bill-clinton

Quote:
The 2009 subpoena: In 2009, Brad Edwards, an attorney who has represented various Epstein victims, had Trump served with a subpoena for testimony in a case against Epstein.

But Edwards is not alleging any wrongdoing from Trump; rather, the opposite. He said in a recent interview that he had served subpoenas on many connected people in 2009, and that Trump was “the only person who picked up the phone and said, ‘Let’s just talk. I’ll give you as much time as you want.’”

Edwards added that Trump “was very helpful, in the information that he gave,” calling it “good information that checked out and that helped us.” And, he said, Trump “gave no indication whatsoever that he was involved in anything untoward whatsoever.”
Quote:
The Katie Johnson lawsuit: This is the only accusation against Trump for Epstein-related wrongdoing. An anonymous woman sued Trump in 2016, claiming that in 1994, he violently raped her at an orgy hosted by Epstein. She said she was 13 years old at the time, and accused Epstein of raping her as well. She first filed suit in California under the name “Katie Johnson,” and when it was thrown out there for technical reasons, she filed it in New York under “Jane Doe.”

But many journalists were wary about this claim. There was no corroborating evidence offered (except for affidavits from two anonymous people claiming to have been told of or witnessed it), and the suit appeared “to have been orchestrated by an eccentric anti-Trump campaigner with a record of making outlandish claims about celebrities,” the Guardian’s Jon Swaine wrote. Jezebel’s Anna Merlan tried for some time to get to the bottom of what was going on and concluded in June 2016, “The facts speak less to a scandal and more, perhaps, to an attempt at a smear.”

Trump himself said, “The allegations are not only categorically false, but disgusting at the highest level and clearly framed to solicit media attention or, perhaps, are simply politically motivated.”

All that was before the Access Hollywood tape and before many women had spoken out publicly to accuse Trump of sexual assault. But even after that, the anonymity of “Katie Johnson” and the sketchiness of her associates kept mainstream US journalists wary about this accusation. She ended up withdrawing her lawsuit days before the 2016 election; her attorney Lisa Bloom said it was because she was getting death threats.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
If the evidence includes audio or video of Trump discussing (or, og forbid, doing) the abuse of chidren, then I predict chaos -- most Trump supporters would still support Trump and insist these are fake (as would Trump himself, I would presume), and Republicans in office would split down the middle
You mean a 50-50 split between insisting that it's irrelevant and insisting that there's nothing wrong with it, I presume....
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:16 PM
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This seems like outlandish conjecture to me. Trump has never otherwise been accused of sexual misconduct with children, other than his behavior at Miss Teen pageants, right? Conjecture about him credibly being accused of "child rape" seems over the top.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:23 PM
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This seems like outlandish conjecture to me. Trump has never otherwise been accused of sexual misconduct with children, other than his behavior at Miss Teen pageants, right? Conjecture about him credibly being accused of "child rape" seems over the top.
I'm not predicting anything -- I'm asking about a hypothetical scenario. But that's an interesting "other than" up there... With most folks, we'd hope "...has never been accused of sexual misconduct with children" would end right there.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:24 PM
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Conjecture about him credibly being accused of "child rape" seems over the top.
Donald Trump Is Accused Of Raping A 13-Year-Old.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:37 PM
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:48 PM
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Unless it's Trump, on video, raping a child, it won't make any difference. Even then, maybe not. It could be the "Deep State" using "Deep Fake" or whatever that video editing software is (too lazy to look it up)
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:51 PM
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This seems like outlandish conjecture to me. Trump has never otherwise been accused of sexual misconduct with children, other than his behavior at Miss Teen pageants, right? Conjecture about him credibly being accused of "child rape" seems over the top.
He has never been accused of sexual misconduct with children, other than the time he was accused of sexual misconduct with children?"
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:31 PM
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He has never been accused of sexual misconduct with children, other than the time he was accused of sexual misconduct with children?"
And that other time.
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:32 PM
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To be fair to Best Leader Trump, he was not accused of touching any Teen USA contestants, *only* walking in their dressing room while changing...

But then you have this-

In a New York magazine profile of Epstein before he went to prison, and long before Trump ran for president, Trump acknowledged that he knows Epstein. “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,’’ Trump says in the story. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it ― Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”

But short of HD quality video of the incident, nothing would happen because his base wouldn't care- you'd see video of middle aged redneck wimmin talking about how they had sex with older men at that age, Jerry Lee Lewis did it too!, etc.

Last edited by Helmut Doork; 07-10-2019 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:37 PM
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The response from Republicans will be but...but...but... her emails! They're a personality cult and nothing will ever convince them that Donald wasn't sent by God to become dictator for life.
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:37 PM
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If the Pope were to testify he saw Trump rape a child they would just say the Pope is a commie pinko left wing liar.
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:38 PM
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He has never been accused of sexual misconduct with children, other than the time he was accused of sexual misconduct with children?"
He's kept his sexual misconduct with children to an absolute minimum.
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:59 PM
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anyone else ever heard of a guy who said he would date his daughter if she was not his daughter?
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Old 07-10-2019, 04:05 PM
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Old 07-10-2019, 04:11 PM
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Suggest Trump is a sexual predator, and the only proof we have is him bragging about it himself. Make similar accusations against Democrats, and where is the evidence again?
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Old 07-10-2019, 04:22 PM
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anyone else ever heard of a guy who said he would date his daughter if she was not his daughter?
He had nothing but approval when Howard Stern called Ivanka a "piece of ass".
He speculated on the size Tiffany's breasts would be when she was still a baby.
During an interview with Robin Leach, he indicated a 10 year old girl and stated that in ten years, he would be dating her.
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:00 PM
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He has never been accused of sexual misconduct with children, other than the time he was accused of sexual misconduct with children?"
In all fairness, we should concede that most of the women Trump has raped were over eighteen.
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:05 PM
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Nothing will happen. His base don’t care if he rapes children and Pelosi is too much of a political hack to stand up for the rule of law.

Now, if you tell the Trumpists that the Clintons are running a child sex ring in a the basement of a pizza parlor in DC, one of them will show up with a rifle and terrorize the place, but then they let an actual sexual predator run for senate in Alabama as a Republican. It’s almost as if they have no moral core.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:21 PM
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Nothing will happen. His base donít care if he rapes children and Pelosi is too much of a political hack to stand up for the rule of law.

Now, if you tell the Trumpists that the Clintons are running a child sex ring in a the basement of a pizza parlor in DC, one of them will show up with a rifle and terrorize the place, but then they let an actual sexual predator run for senate in Alabama as a Republican. Itís almost as if they have no moral core.
Almost?
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:46 PM
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I can't wait for 2024 so these "two minutes hate" threads might end when Trump leaves office.
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:37 PM
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I can't wait for 2024 so these "two minutes hate" threads might end when Trump leaves office.
I'm sorry, but 2020 or 2024, they won't end until Trump is in jail.
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:50 PM
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Nothing will happen. His base don’t care if he rapes children and Pelosi is too much of a political hack to stand up for the rule of law.

Now, if you tell the Trumpists that the Clintons are running a child sex ring in a the basement of a pizza parlor in DC, one of them will show up with a rifle and terrorize the place, but then they let an actual sexual predator run for senate in Alabama as a Republican. It’s almost as if they have no moral core.
Oh they have a moral core. Its just not a good one. People say things like 'republicans are hypocrites', but really they aren't. They have deeply held convictions. They just aren't good convictions.

1. Gain and keep power by any means necessary including undermining democracy, treason, cheating, lying, etc.

2. Promote plutocratic economics (deregulate, cut taxes on the rich, raise taxes on the poor, eliminate the social safety net, shift economic power to the wealthy)

3. Maintain and expand the privilege experience by in-groups (whites, christians, men, native born americans, conservatives, republicans, etc) and increase the persecution and exodus of out-groups (brown people, muslims, atheists, feminists, immigrants, foreigners, liberals, democrats, etc).

Republicans are very very consistent on these 3 principles. People just aren't looking in the right place when they say the GOP has no moral center or no principles.

Just because their principles are evil and wrong doesn't mean they don't have them. We have to be honest about what we're up against. Irrational neofascists who think they work for god. All that daily show pointing out GOP hypocrisy is a waste of time. They are very consistent, its just what they believe is evil.

People like Roy Moore and Trump like to sexually abuse children. But they are consistent with these 3 principles, and so are the people who vote for them.
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:57 PM
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As to what happens to Trump? Absolutely nothing.

Maybe, if we're lucky, he will get prosecuted when he leaves office. But the democrats will not investigate for fear of being yelled at by republicans and the DOJ makes it policy not to prosecute a sitting president. Maybe NY state will prosecute, but who knows.

No matter how much evidence there is against Trump, his followers will engage in whattaboutism. "What about Clinton' as if Bill Clinton being a sexual predator means Trump has a free pass to do the same thing. Both should be in prison if there is evidence in a court of law.

Or they'll call all the evidence fake. or they'll say its a coup.
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:04 PM
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I'm sorry, but 2020 or 2024, they won't end until Trump is in jail.
Yeah, they will. Notice the lack of "Bush sucks!" threads?
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:00 PM
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Furrowed brows from the GOP. Cries of "fake news" and "but Clinton". Not much else.
Day one, it was Clinton, Clinton, Clinton from the trump apologists, because Bill got some free rides on this perverts airplane. But trump was actually at a couple of Epsteins parties. And trumps buddy, his Secretary of Labor, got Epstein a sweetheart deal so this perv could keep preying on kids.

Yeah, trump's no pedo, but really, neither is this guy, his victims were mostly in their teens.

Remember pedophilia is for pre-pubescent children. Real sickos.

Last edited by DrDeth; 07-10-2019 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:12 PM
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Day one, it was Clinton, Clinton, Clinton from the trump apologists, because Bill got some free rides on this perverts airplane. But trump was actually at a couple of Epsteins parties. And trumps buddy, his Secretary of Labor, got Epstein a sweetheart deal so this perv could keep preying on kids.

Yeah, trump's no pedo, but really, neither is this guy, his victims were mostly in their teens.

Remember pedophilia is for pre-pubescent children. Real sickos.
Technically there are terms like pedophilia, hebephilia, ephebophilia to break sexual attraction to minors into different groups. And someone who is attracted to a 17 year old is not the same as someone attracted to a 2 year old.

But for the purposes of the law and morality, we've agreed that people under the age of 16-18 can't legally consent to sexual activity.
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:26 PM
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Technically there are terms like pedophilia, hebephilia, ephebophilia to break sexual attraction to minors into different groups. And someone who is attracted to a 17 year old is not the same as someone attracted to a 2 year old.

But for the purposes of the law and morality, we've agreed that people under the age of 16-18 can't legally consent to sexual activity.
Absolutely. It's very illegal, unless you are married or you are also under 18 - ymmv by state and ianal.

And the extent this perv did it, I have no problem calling him a pervert. I mean it's not like he picked up a 17yo in a bar that claimed to be 19. He had wild sex parties with many participants.
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:30 AM
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Did you read post #5?

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Old 07-11-2019, 07:34 AM
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They'll immediately claim it's an attempted coup by deep state officials who are loyal to Comey, Clinton, and Obama. And he'll instruct Bill Barr to take care of this problem. I also suspect that there will be more of a push by Barr to obtain and find ways to centralize streams of classified information that can be weaponized against his rivals. Who's going to stop him at this point?

https://www.justsecurity.org/64307/b...us-new-powers/

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Late Thursday, at Attorney General William Barr’s request, the president granted him carte blanche not only to obtain all “assistance and information” he desires from the intelligence community in support of his “review” of intelligence activities related to the 2016 election, but also to declassify any information he chooses to—even if that information was originally classified not by the Justice Department but by, say, the Central Intelligence Agency or National Security Agency. Barr doesn’t even have to consult with the head of the intelligence agency or department whose information is at stake unless he deems it “practicable.” Trump’s approach is out of sync with proper executive branch leadership and, more importantly, dangerous to American security.

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Old 07-11-2019, 07:42 AM
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I can't wait for 2024 so these "two minutes hate" threads might end when Trump leaves office.
Just remember that until then, you are obligated to read and comment in all of them. Sorry, but that's the rule.
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:16 AM
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DrDeth, remember, this is a guy who rejected one girl because her breasts had developed. So, yes, he really is looking for pre-pubescent, and pedophile really is the right word for him.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:22 PM
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Saw a really great thread on Twitter taking the known facts about Jeffrey Epstein and following the money.

https://twitter.com/quantian1/status...857491968?s=09

The gist is that he is a pimp for underage girls which he used to produce blackmail material and his investment business was way of getting huge payoffs without attracting the attention of the IRS.

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Old 07-12-2019, 02:33 PM
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If Epstein information and testimony directly implicates Trump, what happens?

Absolutely nothing.

- Trump will declare "fake news! Witchhunt!"
- Fox News will back him up and scream about Clinton/Obama
- Trump minions will either hear nothing of it, or just believe Trump
- Republican politicians will tut-tut at the best, or ignore it, or back up Trump
- Democrat politicians will tut-tut, make noises, form a committee and ultimately do nothing.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:40 PM
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As I said in a thread last month:

Short of being caught on video handing Putin $100 billion in cash along with the nuclear launch codes, while simultaneously sucking the man's dick and signing a notarized affidavit stating he knew all along evangelical Christians were idiots who would fall for his bullshit, no scandal is going to bring him down.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:44 PM
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For those who say absolutely nothing I will point out that Roy Moore lost bright red Alabama to a Democrat when tied to similar allegations. I don't think that the Republicans would have the stomach to impeach him unless there was irrefutable evidence, but I think even just compelling evidence would torpedo his 2020 election chances.
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:20 PM
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Ran across an interesting theory that Pizzagate was a preemptive fake scandal to make the Epstein scandal less credible when it inevitably broke.
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:35 PM
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As I said in a thread last month:

Short of being caught on video handing Putin $100 billion in cash along with the nuclear launch codes, while simultaneously sucking the man's dick and signing a notarized affidavit stating he knew all along evangelical Christians were idiots who would fall for his bullshit, no scandal is going to bring him down.
DJT: "Deepfake! Definitely not me in the video! So obvious. I never even met Vladimir Putin!"

50+ million people: "Duhhhhhhhh okay!"
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:46 PM
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Saw a really great thread on Twitter taking the known facts about Jeffrey Epstein and following the money.

https://twitter.com/quantian1/status...857491968?s=09

The gist is that he is a pimp for underage girls which he used to produce blackmail material and his investment business was way of getting huge payoffs without attracting the attention of the IRS.
I’ve been posting about Epstein’s probable financial crimes over in the Pit thread. Here’s a really good article. I’ve dropped some other good links in the Pit thread if anyone’s interested.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...s-fortune.html

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 07-12-2019 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:55 PM
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Iíve been posting about Epsteinís probable financial crimes over in the Pit thread. Hereís a really good article. Iíve dropped some other good links in the Pit thread if anyoneís interested.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...s-fortune.html
Cool, thanks for that.
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Old 07-12-2019, 05:28 PM
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For those who say absolutely nothing I will point out that Roy Moore lost bright red Alabama to a Democrat when tied to similar allegations. I don't think that the Republicans would have the stomach to impeach him unless there was irrefutable evidence, but I think even just compelling evidence would torpedo his 2020 election chances.
He'd have to be photographed cavorting with a live boy or a dead girl for 1/10 of his base to leave him.
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Old 07-12-2019, 05:33 PM
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I’ve gotta be honest here. I’ve read the lawsuit filed by the woman that claims Trump raped her when she was 13, and I don’t think it rings true.

She claimed to have a witness to everything. She claims the witness recruited her at Port Authority Bus terminal and that the witness, known as Tiffany Doe (yes, really) witnessed single every moment of every sexual encounter she had with Trump and Epstein because that was her job. This does not fit in with hundreds of other womens description of their encounters at the Epstein residence. While Epstein had staff that facilitated his encounters, I don’t think anyone else has alleged that their was a woman that watched everything. And the “recruited at Port Authority” claim seems pretty unique.

And she claims that Trump tied her to a bed, forcibly and brutally raped her then physically beat her while she was still tied up. There was very little nuance to her story. Frankly, it reminded me of the witness statement Jacob Wohl’s “Mueller is a rapist” stunt.

Now Trump is an asshole with no respect for women and their personal autonomy. I can see him bragging and blustering and wandering through parties kissing women and grabbing boobies and pussies just because he can get away with it and everyone can see him getting away with. I can see him taking some attractive young woman into a bedroom and having sex with her, mostly because everyone will see that he can. I would not be surprised if some of those girls were underaged. I would not be surprised if it were taped. There may be a shoe that will drop.

But I would need a lot more than one sketchy lawsuit ( that was dropped) to believe that he restrained and then raped and then beat up a child. A lot more.

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 07-12-2019 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 07-12-2019, 05:44 PM
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DrDeth, remember, this is a guy who rejected one girl because her breasts had developed. So, yes, he really is looking for pre-pubescent, and pedophile really is the right word for him.
As young as these girls were, they were always teenagers. Words mean things. Or at least they're supposed to. Teenage=/ prepubescent. He didn't reject the girl because her breasts had developed, it was because they had developed and grown *too big*. Let's be accurate, ok?

Ugh. The last thing I want to do is sound like I'm in any way defending this fuckwad. But stop calling him pedophile. He's not one. Pedophiles are specifically attracted to prepubescent children. Epstein is a hebephile.
  #48  
Old 07-12-2019, 05:45 PM
scr4 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Godot View Post
For those who say absolutely nothing I will point out that Roy Moore lost bright red Alabama to a Democrat when tied to similar allegations.

According to exit polls, less than 7% of voters said the allegations of sexual misconduct was the single most important factor in their voting.

Doug Jones has a very strong track record as a defender of civil rights, which is why 96% of black voters voted for him, and black voters turned out in higher number than other recent elections. And that's crucial in a state where ~30% of voters are black. And he got more white votes than Obama probably because he himself is white. Even without the sexual misconduct allegations, it would have been a very close race.

Last edited by scr4; 07-12-2019 at 05:46 PM.
  #49  
Old 07-12-2019, 06:00 PM
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Hillary was such a bad candidate that she could lose to a guy like Trump with all these stories about him groping women and he even admitted on tape he groped women.
  #50  
Old 07-12-2019, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scr4 View Post
According to exit polls, less than 7% of voters said the allegations of sexual misconduct was the single most important factor in their voting.

Doug Jones has a very strong track record as a defender of civil rights, which is why 96% of black voters voted for him, and black voters turned out in higher number than other recent elections. And that's crucial in a state where ~30% of voters are black. And he got more white votes than Obama probably because he himself is white. Even without the sexual misconduct allegations, it would have been a very close race.
Take a look at the graph on this page:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...ones-6271.html

Looking at that graph, could you perhaps guess when the allegations came out?
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