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  #151  
Old 07-31-2019, 07:34 PM
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"Boo-urns".
  #152  
Old 07-31-2019, 07:36 PM
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This is what really bugs me. The fact that someone's political career can be made or broken on one great sound bite or one faux pas. It's nuts and it's so emblematic of today.
Howard Dean agrees with you
  #153  
Old 07-31-2019, 07:37 PM
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I was wondering that myself.

Got it

https://pix11.com/2019/07/31/audienc...fire-pantaleo/

Last edited by E-DUB; 07-31-2019 at 07:40 PM.
  #154  
Old 07-31-2019, 07:41 PM
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No. It's not. And no. We don't.
I'll point out that Jimmy Carter, who served as an officer in the nuclear Navy, also pronounced it "nucular". It's not an indication of ignorance, it's an indication of regional dialect.

Using this sort of idiosyncrasy as a metric to measure anyone's capabilities is kind of like judging a car's power train by the sound the electric windows make.
  #155  
Old 07-31-2019, 07:49 PM
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Thanks, E-DUB!
  #156  
Old 07-31-2019, 08:00 PM
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Biden has a few fumbles over his words but seems to have hit a better stride.

I think Harris’s talking over the moderators and fairly constant same indignant tone is going to grate some really soon.
  #157  
Old 07-31-2019, 08:03 PM
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Biden's wading into dangerous waters here.
  #158  
Old 07-31-2019, 08:18 PM
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If I was Biden, and someone snarked me on a vote I did in the 70's or 80's, I'd just ask "well, how did you vote?" "I was just in high school!" "Exactly".
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:23 PM
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Booker really landed some blows in that exchange. He was tough but fair, IMO.
  #160  
Old 07-31-2019, 08:25 PM
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Is it just me or is Castro doing a Barack Obama impersonation? He's pausing and saying "Uh" just like Barry used to.
  #161  
Old 07-31-2019, 08:27 PM
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"No, he should be fired. He should be fired right away."

Take that, New York Tough Guy.
  #162  
Old 07-31-2019, 08:32 PM
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Wow Gabbard embarassed Harris on justice. At least someone stepped up to the plate.
  #163  
Old 07-31-2019, 08:33 PM
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"No, he should be fired. He should be fired right away."

Take that, New York Tough Guy.
Context?
  #164  
Old 07-31-2019, 08:34 PM
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So far, I think it is a bloody draw. Everyone is beating each other to death and scoring points. All the front runners will need that good national healthcare after the debate tonight.
  #165  
Old 07-31-2019, 08:36 PM
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Is it me or does Michael Bennet sound drunk?
  #166  
Old 07-31-2019, 09:05 PM
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Barely veiled commie De’Blasio calls for working people of the world to unite!
  #167  
Old 07-31-2019, 09:46 PM
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Is it me or does Michael Bennet sound drunk?
At times Bennet sounded like some people with MS that I know. MS can affect enunciation which may then end up sounding like drunken slurring. I don't know that Bennet suffers from Multiple Sclerosis but there are other conditions that cause similar speaking difficulties.
  #168  
Old 07-31-2019, 09:48 PM
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Wait, joe 30330? What the fuck url was that?

Edit: looks like he meant to say "Text Joe to 30330" and fumbled, and I'll let the obvious jokes write themselves.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 07-31-2019 at 09:52 PM.
  #169  
Old 07-31-2019, 09:50 PM
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Had to contend with a summer camp talent show tonight, so I missed most of the debate. Pretty much only saw the closers.

I liked Booker's closing statement. I kinda hope he can catch fire.

What the hell was that Joe 30303 thing that Biden mentioned at the end?
  #170  
Old 07-31-2019, 09:52 PM
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lol wut was that site you want us to visit, Joe? I'm....so confused. Is that how you feel all the time?
  #171  
Old 07-31-2019, 09:58 PM
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Harris was my favorite going in, and perhaps still is. I was impressed with Inslee and agree that climate change can be the pole star of the next administration. I feel like I could be proud of all of these candidates as POTUS. I am afraid Biden is my least favorite simply because of his recurrent difficulty in expressing himself accurately. Worse than Bennet, time to pass the torch. Didn't really notice an issue with Bennet honestly, I thought he had a clear message.

Bottom line: I like Harris, Inslee got my attention, Castro is smooth, Booker is cool, Gillibrand did far better than last time, Yang's idea needs more analysis but he always seems ice cold. Frankly all were inspiring. Every last one is better than Trump.

Last edited by Try2B Comprehensive; 07-31-2019 at 09:59 PM.
  #172  
Old 07-31-2019, 10:04 PM
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I think the chances of getting a nominee that could beat Donald Trump would increase astronomically if Warren, Sanders, Harris, and Biden all disappeared from the field. The B list is better than the A list, in this situation. I can easily envision Inslee, Buttigieg, Castro, Booker, and even Gabbard beating Trump. But I can't envision any of them getting the damn nomination. At this point I'm convinced it's going to be Warren, Harris, or Biden. And I have serious doubts about all of them. I don't think the nominee will be Sanders but I am starting to think that his presence in the election is disruptive and nonproductive.

I'm not feeling good about this, is what it boils down to, and I suspect I'm not alone.
  #173  
Old 07-31-2019, 10:12 PM
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I think the chances of getting a nominee that could beat Donald Trump would increase astronomically if Warren, Sanders, Harris, and Biden all disappeared from the field.
I agree with this. Only Sanders would beat Trump, and he won't get the nom.
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The B list is better than the A list, in this situation. I can easily envision Inslee, Buttigieg, Castro, Booker, and even Gabbard beating Trump. But I can't envision any of them getting the damn nomination.
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I'm not feeling good about this, is what it boils down to, and I suspect I'm not alone.
Nope; you're not alone.
  #174  
Old 07-31-2019, 10:31 PM
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From the clips I've seen, his closing remarks, and his interview with Anderson Cooper, Booker's looking good tonight. But...

I wish he would do more to woo the blue collar workers in the Industrial Midwest, and less to woo African-American voters. He's giving good answers on his Newark policing issue, even as he's being hit with it pretty hard. I just wish he could spend more of his time talking about middle class economic issues. He's talking a lot about criminal justice reform, but this won't do him any favors in the general.
  #175  
Old 07-31-2019, 10:37 PM
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Poll predictions - Biden stays put. Warren moves up closer. Harris and Sanders both fall off some. Not sure if anyone else moves at all, maybe a little shift from Buttigieg to another that has no chance. I think this is going to become mainly between Biden and Warren as Iowa gets closer.

Biden was not impressive but he was better than last time.
  #176  
Old 07-31-2019, 10:38 PM
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...I just wish he could spend more of his time talking about middle class economic issues. He's talking a lot about criminal justice reform, but this won't do him any favors in the general.
'Biden's' Criminal Justice Reform = drop in crime is too simple for many people to get behind Booker if that's going to be his pony. All someone has to do is bring up the families destroyed by the criminals now in jail.

also: ooh, Tulsi commercials!

also also: why do they keep calling former Presidents and Vice Presidents by that title? Senators, yes; not them.

Last edited by sps49sd; 07-31-2019 at 10:40 PM.
  #177  
Old 07-31-2019, 10:39 PM
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I think Biden got pounded, but unlike last time, I think he at least looked like he was fighting back and stood up for himself. He looked like he was fumbling his words a bit, but there were no 10-point drop mistakes that he made this time. Several candidates looked good, but the field was so crowded with personalities tonight, I doubt anyone stood out. Inslee came across as really erudite and compassionate, but his poll numbers aren't going to change.
  #178  
Old 07-31-2019, 10:40 PM
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Poll predictions - Biden stays put. Warren moves up closer. Harris and Sanders both fall off some. Not sure if anyone else moves at all, maybe a little shift from Buttigieg to another that has no chance. I think this is going to become mainly between Biden and Warren as Iowa gets closer.

Biden was not impressive but he was better than last time.
Agree with this almost word for word.
  #179  
Old 07-31-2019, 10:41 PM
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I think the chances of getting a nominee that could beat Donald Trump would increase astronomically if Warren, Sanders, Harris, and Biden all disappeared from the field. The B list is better than the A list, in this situation. I can easily envision Inslee, Buttigieg, Castro, Booker, and even Gabbard beating Trump. But I can't envision any of them getting the damn nomination. At this point I'm convinced it's going to be Warren, Harris, or Biden. And I have serious doubts about all of them. I don't think the nominee will be Sanders but I am starting to think that his presence in the election is disruptive and nonproductive.

I'm not feeling good about this, is what it boils down to, and I suspect I'm not alone.
That seems to be the view on Fox News as well.
  #180  
Old 07-31-2019, 10:44 PM
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That seems to be the view on Fox News as well.
Shocking!
  #181  
Old 07-31-2019, 10:47 PM
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'Biden's' Criminal Justice Reform = drop in crime is too simple for many people to get behind Booker if that's going to be his pony. All someone has to do is bring up the families destroyed by the criminals now in jail.

also: ooh, Tulsi commercials!

also also: why do they keep calling former Presidents and Vice Presidents by that title? Senators, yes; not them.
Correct usage is to address former Presidents and VPs by the last title they had prior to that office. (Senator Obama, Governor Bush, Governor Clinton, etc). However, common usage is as you've described it. It also gets a little tricky when you're referring to events during that President's term of office. For instance, it'd be a bit weird to say that Senator Obama made the decision to kill Bin Laden.
  #182  
Old 07-31-2019, 10:58 PM
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Stylistically, I think Booker is the best suited to take on Trump and win. He is smooth on his feet, he can hit his opponents hard and remain likable, he can verbally battle, and he's physically huge (and shit like this matters to Trump). There's just something I like about him, and I think his style could appeal to the midwestern blue collar households. I just think he focuses too much on stuff that's meant to win the black vote in the primary, rather than the electoral vote in the general. And if he keeps on focusing on "race stuff," he's just creating the GOP's talking points for them.
  #183  
Old 07-31-2019, 11:00 PM
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Regarding Bullock's "Nucular": Yeah that drove me crazy too. It's also a sign that he's either too dumb to hire good consultants or too dumb to listen to them if he did. A word mispronunciation that is so blatantly associated with the mannerisms and administration of such a shitty president in such recent history, should have been immediately flagged during his debate preparations as something to avoid.

"But that's just the way I pronounce it, I can't help it!" "You better learn to say it correctly or people are going to think of George W. Fucking Bush, goddammit. Now practice!"

That exchange clearly never took place.
My high school chemistry teacher always said nuculus and nucular.
  #184  
Old 07-31-2019, 11:29 PM
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IMO Biden will maintain his lead as it was pre debate. He did not land a big blow but he had a solid defence this time. More policy details too.

The biggest error Harris made is constantly namechecking him. Each time she tried to jab at him was one more chance for Biden to talk and he was better prepared to handle it.

Booker and Yang made good points. Inslee decent. Castro and Bennet had their moments but I found both a bit rigid. Gabbard got the big blows in, De Blasio has personality but acted like a moderator at times, and Gillibrand was totally vain.
  #185  
Old 07-31-2019, 11:41 PM
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IMO Biden will maintain his lead as it was pre debate. He did not land a big blow but he had a solid defence this time. More policy details too.

The biggest error Harris made is constantly namechecking him. Each time she tried to jab at him was one more chance for Biden to talk and he was better prepared to handle it.
....
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/31/polit...t-2/index.html
LOSERS
*Kamala Harris: The California senator learned on Wednesday night how much harder it is to be the target rather than the targeter. From the start, Biden came at Harris on her record as California attorney general. But so did Gillibrand and Sen. Michael Bennet (Colorado). And boy oh boy, did Gabbard come after her -- dropping the opposition research book on Harris on her record in California. Harris at times effectively parried those attacks, but she didn't do it enough. On health care and criminal justice reform, she struggled to defend repeated attacks on her record; she wound up simply saying that everything everyone else on stage wasn't telling the truth about her record. Really, everyone? Harris didn't perform badly; she simply didn't live up to the high expectations that she set for herself in the first debate.


"...for whatsoever a WOman soweth, that shall She also reap."



I said that turning on Biden like she did wouldnt work out for her, and her record as AG is hard to defend.

Joe Biden: Boy, was this a tough call. I went back and forth on Biden's performance throughout the two hours. On the one hand, Biden was WAY more active, energetic and forceful in this debate than in the first debate in Miami. But that alone doesn't make him a winner. The truth is that this was a deeply uneven debate for the former vice president. He was, in places, quite strong -- particularly when he was going after Sen. Kamala Harris (California) and Booker (New Jersey). But Biden was much less confident when he was under attack -- especially, again, when the topic turned to race and criminal justice reform, though as the frontrunner, he did withstand fire through the entire debate. Biden also struggled in several answers to spit out the right words at the right time. And he continued to stop himself in mid-thought and immediately stop talking when his time ran out. Add it all up and I believe that Biden wound up doing *just* enough to quiet -- if not silence -- questions about whether he is up to the job. That, plus Harris' struggles, get the former vice president into the "win" column. Barely.
  #186  
Old 07-31-2019, 11:43 PM
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I still find Gabbard charismatic. She seems to have a talk forever stamina that reminds me of Obama. But she speaks in kind of Trumpy dark tones. But she just has a politician's self command. I don't know about POTUS, but she's got skills.
  #187  
Old 07-31-2019, 11:58 PM
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I'd also add attacking Obama's presidency as a means to attacking Biden is futile. As Vice President, Biden has to own the record but rank and file Democrats admire Obama. He is still the most popular Democrat in the country. Watching Trump tear his achievements apart out of spite, then telling Democratic voters "they weren't that good anyway" is a lousy message.
  #188  
Old 08-01-2019, 02:34 AM
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Correct usage is to address former Presidents and VPs by the last title they had prior to that office. (Senator Obama, Governor Bush, Governor Clinton, etc). However, common usage is as you've described it. It also gets a little tricky when you're referring to events during that President's term of office. For instance, it'd be a bit weird to say that Senator Obama made the decision to kill Bin Laden.
So how’s that gonna work with your next ex-President?
  #189  
Old 08-01-2019, 03:42 AM
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Easy. As he was never Vice President, nor Secretary of anything, nor a Representative, nor a Senator, nor an ambassador or consul, then he is simply a "Mister." As in, "Mr. Trump."
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Old 08-01-2019, 06:12 AM
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It's hard to know just how accurate it is, but if Google Trends are any indication, it appears that the 2nd debate was a flop compared to the previous night. None of the candidates generated much buzz. Biden and Andrew Yang seem to have received the most search interest. During the debate, I though De Blasio, Harris, Castro, and Booker all succeeded in making Biden uncomfortable, but none of them did anything to stand out. And as others have pointed out, I think Biden 'won' just by putting up more of a fight this time.

FWIW, the candidates who passed my eye test in terms of making the most of their speaking opportunities, I'd have to say that Gillibrand, Yang, and Gabbard earned that distinction. All three were given more speaking time and made the most of it. Gillibrand was especially impressive in terms of substance. That doesn't necessarily improve her standing, however.

Last edited by asahi; 08-01-2019 at 06:13 AM.
  #191  
Old 08-01-2019, 06:30 AM
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It's hard to know just how accurate it is, but if Google Trends are any indication, it appears that the 2nd debate was a flop compared to the previous night.
Actually, the whole post, but this part mostly. Last night was a prison brawl and the biggest target got the most rocks thrown at him. A 50 year political career presents lots of cherries for your adversaries to pick, so in that light I'm kind of impressed nobody came up with any real stingers for uncle Joe. A couple "product of his time" critiques, or votes he'd made without including his rationale (which he did a good job of defending). But by the end of the night I wondered if he was maybe working out how he could dip out of this race gracefully. I think Biden has been a workhorse, and that he alone has the experience to rebuild the government that Trump has so thoroughly corrupted. But I don't think he's the right POTUS. Sec of Staff maybe?

Apart from that spectacle, I didn't get particularly worked up about anyone. I decided I don't like Harris at all, although I do like a lot of her ideas. I have to reconcile that. Yang was good but he doesn't have much presence, and I'm still not convinced about universal income.
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:08 AM
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Having 10 people debates going on nearly 3 hours up to 11pm six months before the first vote is counted is a bit silly tbh. What makes it worse people being cut mid-sentence to fit for time. Game shows have the rule "I've started so I'll finish" yet candidates for President get 30 seconds to answer a question, then get hit for lacking substance.

Furthermore Warren has largely been considered one of the big winners on both the MSNBC and CNN debate but because she was with the perceived "weaker group" people are holding back in giving her too much credit. She and Sanders treated each other with kid gloves too. It's all a bit overhyped.

The field needs to get smaller and Biden, Warren, Sanders and Harris need to be on the stage together.
  #193  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:15 AM
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This is quite delusional. In what way are they going to 'Eat him alive?' Republicans consider him and Warren their greatest threat.
If he gets the nomination, the Republicans are going to paint a hammer and sickle on his forehead. He's a self-identified socialist. Uneducated white male voters are going to cash their socialist Social Security checks, drive on the socialist roads to see a doctor using their socialist Medicare, take a crap into the socialist sewer system, and then go to the precinct to vote against socialism. It's stupid as all hell, but so are they.

Last edited by BobLibDem; 08-01-2019 at 07:16 AM.
  #194  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:17 AM
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Easy. As he was never Vice President, nor Secretary of anything, nor a Representative, nor a Senator, nor an ambassador or consul, then he is simply a "Mister." As in, "Mr. Trump."
Or if there is a God, address him as Inmate Number 1018457.
  #195  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:36 AM
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Correct usage is to address former Presidents and VPs by the last title they had prior to that office. (Senator Obama, Governor Bush, Governor Clinton, etc). However, common usage is as you've described it. It also gets a little tricky when you're referring to events during that President's term of office. For instance, it'd be a bit weird to say that Senator Obama made the decision to kill Bin Laden.
No. Correct usage, with two exceptions, is that former officeholders are referred to as Mr. or Ms. LastName. The exceptions are for former governors and ambassadors. No one knows exactly why this is, but it is so. Two examples:



George Aiken served as Vermont's Governor for four years in the late 1940s and then served 34 years as Senator. After his retirement from the Senate he was correctly referred to as "Governor Aiken" for the remainder of his life, and is still so called today. (Aiken was the one who famously stated his policy recommendation for Viet Nam as "declare we have won and get out".)



Similarly, Elliot Richardson, who served as Ambassador to the United Kingdom for two years, and also one point or another held almost every other office in Washington below that of Vice President, was referred to as Ambassador Richardson for the rest of his life. (He was the one who refused to fire the Watergate Special Prosecutor.)


You will find many examples of journalists referring to former presidents as "President Carter", "President Clinton", and "President Obama" after all of these worthies left office, but that is incorrect usage. (For some reason, Republicans are more often correctly referred to as "former President George H. W. Bush", former President George W. Bush", etc.)

Last edited by BrotherCadfael; 08-01-2019 at 07:37 AM.
  #196  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:36 AM
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I came away certain of one thing: Biden muffed it. Proving once again that he makes a far better sidekick than leader.
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:39 AM
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Or if there is a God, address him as Inmate Number 1018457.
"Convict 45".

Works as a nickname and a slogan.
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  #198  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:42 AM
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It's just treated as the courteous thing to do. Jimmy Carter hasn't been President for almost 40 years but if you talk to him he is President Carter or Mr President because that's what we all know him for. To people of Georgia he was their Governor but he was not my Governor. He was our President.

Mr Carter just sounds off.
  #199  
Old 08-01-2019, 07:42 AM
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I came away certain of one thing: Biden muffed it. Proving once again that he makes a far better sidekick than leader.
I think Biden 'won' just by fighting back more, so I'm not sure I'd agree that he 'muffed it' last night. However, more than once, the thought that flashed in my mind was that he looks old. He looks like he's a forgetful, bumbling old man, and I don't like saying that about Biden because I think he's basically a decent guy. But decency alone ain't gonna beat Trump. Say what one will about Mango Mussolini, but for a 73-year-old man he comes across as younger and more energetic than even some people 10 years his junior, mainly attributable to his brusque, occasionally vulgar speaking style. He's 73 but sometimes sounds like an 18-year-old frat boy. It would be a bad contrast to have a menacing, aggressive Trump hectoring an aging, bumbling Biden on a debate stage.
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:44 AM
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Location: Bay Area, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boycott View Post
It's just treated as the courteous thing to do. Jimmy Carter hasn't been President for almost 40 years but if you talk to him he is President Carter or Mr President because that's what we all know him for. To people of Georgia he was their Governor but he was not my Governor. He was our President.

Mr Carter just sounds off.
The rationale I've heard is that there is only one President, so it's incorrect to refer to a former prez by that title. But since there are multiple governors and senators at any time, you can call a prez "Senator" without any confusion. Not sure that's logically water-tight, but there it is.
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