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  #201  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:41 PM
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They don't have to take over the entire US, whatever that means. Just the Oval office, which they've done.

Last edited by bobot; 08-13-2019 at 12:42 PM.
  #202  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:41 PM
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Ok that’s Trump. I’ve been talking about others. Of course Trump is violent. Commander in Chief, amirite?
Others. Like the people at his rallies who have assaulted protesters and whose legal fees Trump claimed he would cover for committing said assault. Those others? Or others that have sent pipe bombs to various Trump detractors? How about the others who have written manifestos and committed murder using strikingly Trumpian rhetoric? What about those numerous others who have been emboldened to commit less horrific but no less racist acts against various minorities? And let's not lose track of those others who despite everything Trump has said and done, will still proudly vote for him in the next election?

Are those the others you've been talking about?

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Ok bud. Of course if someone explicitly rejects violence but also holds differing political beliefs from you, you will try to smear him as a supporter of violence.
Smear him? I quoted and linked him saying those things verbatim.
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Last edited by QuickSilver; 08-13-2019 at 12:44 PM.
  #203  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:42 PM
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Why do they have any more merit than people who live in Africa, Asia, or Eastern Europe who want to migrate to America?
We already take in thousands of immigrants. LEGAL immigrants. Why should those who sneak across automatically get to stay for free?

Every country in the world has immigration laws. Why cant we?
  #204  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:43 PM
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We already take in thousands of immigrants. LEGAL immigrants. Why should those who sneak across automatically get to stay for free?

Every country in the world has immigration laws. Why cant we?
We do, but a lot of them are dumb and counterproductive, and should be changed.
  #205  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:43 PM
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They don't have to take over the entire US. Just the Oval office, which they've done.
And democrats control major cities like Baltimore and Detroit with majority black populations and how has that been for them?
  #206  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:45 PM
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And democrats control major cities like Baltimore and Detroit with majority black populations and how has that been for them?
How has what been for them?
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  #207  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:47 PM
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And democrats control major cities like Baltimore and Detroit with majority black populations and how has that been for them?
Do you really want to go with "Blacks make cities worse"?
  #208  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:52 PM
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Do you really want to go with "Blacks make cities worse"?
He's looking for the daily-double-down, Alex.
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  #209  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:02 PM
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And democrats control major cities like Baltimore and Detroit with majority black populations and how has that been for them?
Is that the opposite of white supremacist? Democrat?
ETA: My point was that white supremacists don't have to take over the entire US, whatever that means. And you counter with Yeah, but Democrats. Sheesh.

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  #210  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:08 PM
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You disagreed with two posts referring to Trump's tacit (or explicit) endorsement of violence.
No I didn’t. Thanks for your input once again.
  #211  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:12 PM
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No I didn’t. Thanks for your input once again.
You did in post #193 and #195, but if I misinterpreted, then no problem!
  #212  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:12 PM
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Others. Like the people at his rallies who have assaulted protesters and whose legal fees Trump claimed he would cover for committing said assault. Those others? Or others that have sent pipe bombs to various Trump detractors? How about the others who have written manifestos and committed murder using strikingly Trumpian rhetoric? What about those numerous others who have been emboldened to commit less horrific but no less racist acts against various minorities? And let's not lose track of those others who despite everything Trump has said and done, will still proudly vote for him in the next election?

Are those the others you've been talking about?



Smear him? I quoted and linked him saying those things verbatim.
I wasn’t talking about Trump. I’ve been talking about the supposed violent white supremacists named upthread.

They have been smeared as supporters of violence when they explicitly reject it. In the case of Molyneux he is verging on an extreme anti violence position. The only video I watched of his was when he was railing against Obama for laughing about and supporting American Blacks’ physical abuse of children.

Last edited by WillFarnaby; 08-13-2019 at 01:14 PM.
  #213  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:18 PM
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I wasn’t talking about Trump. I’ve been talking about the supposed violent white supremacists named upthread.

They have been smeared as supporters of violence when they explicitly reject it. In the case of Molyneux he is verging on an extreme anti violence position. The only video I watched of his was when he was railing against Obama for laughing about and supporting American Blacks’ physical abuse of children.
Molyneux and Southern downplayed the nigh-genocidal violence of colonists against native Australians. They've also (of course) supported the violence-endorsing Trump and excused/defended his violent rhetoric. It's a joke to call these dishonest, bigoted assholes "anti violence". They're very clearly tolerant and even supportive of certain types of violence.

And Gavin McInnes has explicitly said that he desires violence.

Your understanding of the views and rhetoric of these violence-endorsing assholes is factually incorrect.
  #214  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:00 PM
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Molyneux and Southern downplayed the nigh-genocidal violence of colonists against native Australians. They've also (of course) supported the violence-endorsing Trump and excused/defended his violent rhetoric. It's a joke to call these dishonest, bigoted assholes "anti violence". They're very clearly tolerant and even supportive of certain types of violence.

And Gavin McInnes has explicitly said that he desires violence.

Your understanding of the views and rhetoric of these violence-endorsing assholes is factually incorrect.
Of course you will no more support the claim that they support violence than the other poster.

Trump is no more violent than Obama or Bush. Do supporters of Obama and Bush also get smeared as supporters of violence?
  #215  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:04 PM
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Of course you will no more support the claim that they support violence than the other poster.

Trump is no more violent than Obama or Bush. Do supporters of Obama and Bush also get smeared as supporters of violence?
Wait... are you backing off your claim? Now you agree with me that Molyneux, Southern, and McInnes (who said, literally "I want violence") are all tolerant or supportive of violence? If so, good for you for recognizing it, even if it's obvious enough to the rest of it.

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  #216  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:09 PM
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Of course you will no more support the claim that they support violence than the other poster.
Ohferfucksakes! Do I have to do all your google homework for you?

Quote:
McInnes is known as the co-founder of VICE Media, and now has a talk show on CRTV. He is also a Fox News guest.

Here are a few excerpts:

“Like Bill the Butcher and the Bowery Boys, we will assassinate you.”

“If you’re wearing a MAGA hat and some guy with a slightly punk demeanor says, ‘Hey, are you … pro-Trump?’ choke him. Trust your instincts.”

“Don’t listen to what he has to say, choke him.”

“Can you call for violence generally? ‘Cause I am.”

“Fighting solves everything. We need more violence from the Trump people.”

“Trump supporters: Choke a motherfucker. Choke a bitch. Choke a tranny. Get your fingers around the windpipe.” (Better clip of this statement here.)

“Get a fucking gun.”

“Get ready to blow someone’s fucking head off.”

“Get in trouble. Get arrested. Get fired. They can’t kill us all.”
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Trump is no more violent than Obama or Bush. Do supporters of Obama and Bush also get smeared as supporters of violence?
Cite wherein Obama and/or Bush encouraged violence at rallies or defended white supremacists?
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  #217  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:25 PM
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Wait... are you backing off your claim? Now you agree with me that Molyneux, Southern, and McInnes (who said, literally "I want violence") are all tolerant or supportive of violence? If so, good for you for recognizing it, even if it's obvious enough to the rest of it.
It’s obvious that they support violence? If so, you would support the claim. You continue to not support the claim.
  #218  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:26 PM
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Trump is no more violent than Obama or Bush. Do supporters of Obama and Bush also get smeared as supporters of violence?
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Cite wherein Obama and/or Bush encouraged violence at rallies or defended white supremacists?
Wait... let me guess.... But IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN and DRONES!!!

When caught talking shit, change the subject. Amarite?
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  #219  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:27 PM
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It’s obvious that they support violence? If so, you would support the claim. You continue to not support the claim.
So you don't believe McInnes' own words (cited multiple times already) that he desires and supports violence supports the claim that McInnes supports violence?
  #220  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:27 PM
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Ohferfucksakes! Do I have to do all your google homework for you?





Cite wherein Obama and/or Bush encouraged violence at rallies or defended white supremacists?
It is funny that you will twist yourselves into pretzels to avoid supporting the claim that Molyneux and Southern support violence. Perhaps you should refrain from trusting biased secondary sources.

Believe it or not there are other ways to initiate violence, like starting wars.
  #221  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:29 PM
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So you don't believe McInnes' own words (cited multiple times already) that he desires and supports violence supports the claim that McInnes supports violence?
It is telling that you believe McInnes’ words support the claim that Southern and Molyneux support violence.

Also it is funny that a supporter of the most violent military in modern times shows concern over violence.
  #222  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:32 PM
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Never heard of them plus from what I Googled all 3 are Canadian.

Besides look at those subscriber numbers, thats still less than 1% of even the population of the US not to mention Canada and the rest of the world.

You SERIOUSLY think they are the next nazi party and will take over the US?
Those are extremely substantial numbers for political youtubers. Now add the fact that these channels are very heavily promoted by the youtube algorithm, and the existence of a clear political pipeline starting with people like Joe Rogan, leading through PragerU and Ben Shapiro, to full-bore neo-nazis like Molyneux and McInnes...

You ignore societal forces like this at your peril. There are serious problems with online radicalization, and these figures are not fringe figures that are overwhelmingly laughed at, and they run in the same circles as far more mainstream right-wing figures like Sam Harris or Jordan Peterson.

Or how about Steven Crowder, who may not be a white supremacist himself, but consistently has guests like these guys on his show?

4,065,316 subscribers • 833,729,981 views

Or Dave Rubin (same story)?

1,027,522 subscribers • 220,891,512 views

Those are pretty substantial numbers.

Last edited by Budget Player Cadet; 08-13-2019 at 02:36 PM.
  #223  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:32 PM
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It is funny that you will twist yourselves into pretzels to avoid supporting the claim that Molyneux and Southern support violence. Perhaps you should refrain from trusting biased secondary sources.

Believe it or not there are other ways to initiate violence, like starting wars.
There are other ways to be disingenuous; like changing the subject.
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  #224  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:34 PM
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There are other ways to be disingenuous; like changing the subject.
Changing the subject? I continue to ask for support for the claim that Southern and Molyneux support violence.
  #225  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:36 PM
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Those are extremely substantial numbers for political youtubers. Now add the fact that these channels are very heavily promoted by the youtube algorithm, and the existence of a clear political pipeline starting with people like Joe Rogan, leading through PragerU and Ben Shapiro, to full-bore neo-nazis like Molyneux and McInnes...

You ignore societal forces like this at your peril. There are serious problems with online radicalization, and these figures are not fringe figures that are overwhelmingly laughed at, and they run in the same circles as far more mainstream right-wing figures like Sam Harris or Jordan Peterson.
Jordan Peterson is fairly run of the mill lefty. Your labeler is broken.
  #226  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:36 PM
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It is telling that you believe McInnes’ words support the claim that Southern and Molyneux support violence.
I'm glad to see that you agree with me that McInnes supports violence! Good for you from backing off your earlier claim that McInnes does not support violence.
  #227  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:40 PM
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Molyneux and Southern may believe that defending the near-genocide of native Australians is consistent with opposing violence, and WillF may agree, but not all of us do. Similarly, Molyneux and Southern probably believe that spreading false information that black people are inferior and inherently dangerous is not a violent action, and WillF may agree, but not all of us do. Some of us see white supremacism as inherently violent, due to its history in the US and elsewhere as an ideology fundamentally interlinked with violence.

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  #228  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:42 PM
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I'm glad to see that you agree with me that McInnes supports violence! Good for you from backing off your earlier claim that McInnes does not support violence.
Never made that claim. Strike two.

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Molyneux and Southern may believe that defending the near-genocide of native Australians is consistent with opposing violence, and WillF may agree, but not all of us do. Similarly, Molyneux and Southern probably believe that spreading false information that black people are inferior and inherently dangerous is not a violent action, and WillF may agree, but not all of us do. Some of us see white supremacism as inherently violent, due to its history in the US and elsewhere as an ideology fundamentally interlinked with violence.
Once again no citations.
  #229  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:45 PM
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Never made that claim. Strike two.
You did in #212, but it doesn't matter -- it's good to see that we both now recognize McInnes' support for violence.

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Once again no citations.
Ha! The citations are there... presumably you now agree with me that Molyneux tolerates and supports violence in some circumstances?

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 08-13-2019 at 02:49 PM.
  #230  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:45 PM
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White supremacy is an inherently violent ideology. When you spread conspiracy theories like the great replacement or white genocide (which Southern did), you are inviting violence, as violence is the only possible response to the wholly imaginary threat of white genocide. There's a reason this keeps getting referenced in shooting manfestos.
  #231  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:53 PM
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You did in #212, but it doesn't matter -- it's good to see that we both now recognize McInnes' support for violence.



Ha! The citations are there... presumably you now agree with me that Molyneux tolerates and supports violence in some circumstances?
Post 212 mentions supposed white supremacists named upthread. Southern and Molyneux for those following the conversation. I’ll call this a foul tip.

Wikipedia citations may pass when working for the government, but we aren’t serving the murderous military here. Please cite from primary sources or admit you have nothing.
  #232  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:55 PM
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White supremacy is an inherently violent ideology. When you spread conspiracy theories like the great replacement or white genocide (which Southern did), you are inviting violence, as violence is the only possible response to the wholly imaginary threat of white genocide. There's a reason this keeps getting referenced in shooting manfestos.
If that’s the case, white supremacists are remarkably docile. You claim that the many followers of Molyneux and Southern buy into “violent” conspiracy theories yet the vast majority take no action. In fact, I don’t think any of the violent supremacists cite Molyneux and Southern as influences.

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  #233  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:57 PM
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White Supremacists are part of a significantly large Fascist element in this nation. They radicalize young people and produce "mass shooters" just like groups like ISIS produce "suicide bombers". I consider them far more dangerous than ISIS because they are the enemy within. They represent by far the greatest terrorist threat that we face. They are a threat to our democracy and the ideals upon which the Constitution is based.
(emphasis mine)

Huh? How are you measuring "greatest terrorist threat"?
  #234  
Old 08-13-2019, 03:08 PM
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If that’s the case, white supremacists are remarkably docile. You claim that the many followers of Molyneux and Southern buy into “violent” conspiracy theories yet the vast majority take no action. In fact, I don’t think any of the violent supremacists cite Molyneux and Southern as influences.
Dissemble your way out of this:

Quote:
The men arrested for carrying out the terror attacks in Pittsburgh and Christchurch espoused that same conspiracy theory.

Beyond fringe online platforms like 8chan, Gab and, the similar but more high-traffic forum, 4chan, the ideas behind the “white genocide” conspiracy theory are promoted by pundits with hundreds of thousands of followers on Twitter, such as Stefan Molyneux and Lauren Southern. It’s also promoted by high-traffic white supremacist websites of the “alt-right” movement like “ The Daily Stormer,” “Goy Talk,” and “ The Right Stuff” podcast network.
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  #235  
Old 08-13-2019, 03:12 PM
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WillF, do you sympathize with the views of Molyneux that black people are inferior and dangerous and should be kept separate? If not, why are you expending so much energy defending someone who spreads such obviously hateful and harmful views? I don't get it. Those views are responsible for murderous violence against millions just in the last few centuries.
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Old 08-13-2019, 03:16 PM
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(emphasis mine)

Huh? How are you measuring "greatest terrorist threat"?
Because while the world's eyes continue to focus on what remains of ISIS, domestically, the DHS capacity to track homegrown terrorism has been actively & deliberately impeded by this administration.
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  #237  
Old 08-13-2019, 03:50 PM
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How is that something I need to explain? You can’t even cite a single sentence from them advocating violence. It would be easier for me to cite advocacy of political violence by current Democratic congress members.

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WillF, do you sympathize with the views of Molyneux that black people are inferior and dangerous and should be kept separate? If not, why are you expending so much energy defending someone who spreads such obviously hateful and harmful views? I don't get it. Those views are responsible for murderous violence against millions just in the last few centuries.
As I explained upthread, white supremacy is not the most violent ideology. Democracy has led to the identification of the individual with state action. The violence caused by the government is endorsed by the vast majority of citizens and it surpasses the violence of white supremacy by miles and miles.
  #238  
Old 08-13-2019, 03:56 PM
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How is that something I need to explain? You can’t even cite a single sentence from them advocating violence. It would be easier for me to cite advocacy of political violence by current Democratic congress members.







As I explained upthread, white supremacy is not the most violent ideology. Democracy has led to the identification of the individual with state action. The violence caused by the government is endorsed by the vast majority of citizens and it surpasses the violence of white supremacy by miles and miles.
This doesn't remotely address my question.
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  #239  
Old 08-13-2019, 04:01 PM
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How is that something I need to explain? You can’t even cite a single sentence from them advocating violence. It would be easier for me to cite advocacy of political violence by current Democratic congress members.
I can't make you understand that which you have demonstrably shown an unwillingness to even research, much less read. I'm done with your disingenuous bullshit. Wallow in it on your own.
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  #240  
Old 08-13-2019, 04:04 PM
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I can't make you understand that which you have demonstrably shown an unwillingness to even research, much less read. I'm done with your disingenuous bullshit. Wallow in it on your own.
So you haven’t found a single sentence from Southern or Molyneux supporting violence. This has been a sad display from you.
  #241  
Old 08-13-2019, 04:07 PM
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This doesn't remotely address my question.
I don’t answer backhanded questions. I have never said anything remotely suggesting I believed in the inferiority of certain races. In fact I have often challenged many posters who deny the agency of minority races.
  #242  
Old 08-13-2019, 04:09 PM
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I don’t answer backhanded questions. I have never said anything remotely suggesting I believed in the inferiority of certain races. In fact I have often challenged many posters who deny the agency of minority races.
So you don't believe black people are
inferior? If you say you don't, explicitly, I promise to defend your and cite this post any time I see someone accuse you of being a white supremacist.
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  #243  
Old 08-13-2019, 04:22 PM
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Will, are you defending white nationalist propagandists because you're sympathetic to their views, or because you enjoy being a contrarian? Let's assume for a moment it's the latter. Contrarianism really stops being cute past a certain point. Armond White's schtick is funny, but were he to start giving 5-star reviews to Triumph of the Will the joke would wear real thin real fast. It's just not a good look, mate.

(If it is the former, do feel free to let us know.)
  #244  
Old 08-13-2019, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
If this was say Great Britian or Denmark and this was about 20 years ago when they had hordes of people coming in from eastern Europe, yes they would be.
...would they? Are you sure? 20 years ago a random white person in Great Britian or Denmark had to worry about presenting their papers on no other pretext except the colour of their skin? Cite?

Quote:
But we dont.
You've got Canada. You've got thousands of white people who over-stay their visa. There are hordes of white people who want to stay in America. Why aren't the very same methods and tactics used against white people as they are used against brown people? Are white overstayers objectively different to brown overstayers?

Quote:
We have Mexico and Central America with millions of people there desperate for a better life and governments who basically are dumping them on our doorstep (as long as they then send money home) and
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

Do you agree with that sentiment? Or, like USCIS director Ken Cuccinelli, do you think it should be changed to:

"give me your tired and your poor who can stand on their own two feet, and who will not become a public charge."

Quote:
if you are obviously hispanic or haitian or African, cant speak a word of english, yes your probably going to be stopped.
What if they are if you are obviously hispanic or haitian or African, but they speak perfectly fluent english in a broad and distinct American accent?
  #245  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:15 PM
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Yes, that's exactly what I meant. I believe that nationalism is a MUCH bigger threat to not only American lives but to the world. The 3 most numberous countries on the planet are all very nationalistic...and 2 of them aren't white. In addition, American nationalism is a bit different than you seem to be aware. From an earlier post I seem to recall you aren't an American, so perhaps you don't know this stuff so let me walk you through it. Maybe then you'll see that it's not about being white, and that non-whites can actually be as fervently, even fanatically nationalistic as white folks.
...trust me: you don't have to live in America to understand how absurdly fanatically nationalistic Americans can be. From having children pledge allegiance to the flag to the reverence given to those long-dead-white-men called "The Founding Fathers", to the worship of the United States Constitution, we can probably see it even better than you can even though you are in the middle of it all.

As I said before nationalism is a threat. White nationalism (AKA white supremacy) is a clear and present danger. Because here's the difference. Power. White nationalism has a grip on the executive branch. Stephen Miller, an unelected white supremacist, has effectively hijacked the immigration portfolio, is setting policy and fundumentally changing who will and won't be allowed to come into America, and he has done that with no oversight and to the delight of the President. I quoted some statistics earlier in the thread. 15,000 Syrian refugees in 2016. 3000 Syrian refugees in 2017. 11 Syrian refugees in 2018. The refugee acceptance level went from a forecast (set by the Obama Administration) of 110,000 for 2017 to only 15,000 for 2019. Yet they are building more camps, funnelling people into those camps, and those people have next-to-know chance of getting asylum. They are closing the borders.

And today they've bought in the new Green Card rules. Rules that apparently Miller has been salivating over, that favour rich white people over poor non-white people. They are kicking people out.

The thing is this won't be the end of it. Miller & Co are working quietly in the background. Little by little they are fundumentally changing what America is, what it aspires too. The thought of what will be coming next should be terrifying you. If the worst that we get is Americans being over-the-top-jingoistic during the national anthem I'll take that over what is happening right now in a heartbeat.

Quote:
I think US nationalism has gotten out of hand, and has made us a nation ready to confront instead of lead, to reach for a bigger hammer instead of work with our allies.
The reality is that US nationalism has never "been in hand" though. It has always, IMHO, been freaky as shit.

Quote:
And the thing is, Chinese nationalism is even worse. Then you have Indian nationalism. And of course, the Japanese are going through a nationalistic phase. And then, horror of horrors, the Europeans are actually seemingly moving back towards nationalism...and that IS your white nationalism in a nut shell. Pun intended. Several countries in Africa are also in nationalistic grips.
None of these things though could realistically be classified as the "biggest ideological threat to American lives, by far", which is what this thread is all about.

Quote:
All of these things, IMHO, are bigger 'ideological threat to American lives' than white supremacists in the US, who are a relatively small number in the greater scheme of things and who, again IMHO have little traction outside of their slimy caves and under dank rocks.
I think history tells a different story. Its a story of America that killed and pushed the indigenous peoples off their lands, that bought black people to America in chains and used them as slaves. America is a country that was founded in white supremacy. The constitution was written by white men. There are black people alive today who early in their lives weren't allowed to vote. This is America. Their ideas not only have "traction", for a good part of your history their ideas were enshrined in law. They are not hiding in slimy caves and under dank rocks: they control the executive branch of government in the United States of America.

Quote:
So, yes...I meant nationalism. And I meant it when I said that non-whites can and are fervent nationalists, just like white folks. Immigrants in the US are VERY fervent nationalists, IMHO and my experience, and this isn't just with my own family. And, yeah, the national anthem thing is disturbing...more for what it indicates and the vibe I get than anything I can spell out, especially with this much tequila.
I'm sure they can be fervent nationalists. But white nationalism is a much bigger problem in America because white nationalist have all of the power right now.

Quote:
I'll leave it there since I probably wrote a stream of consious book at this point. Hopefully it's not as angry or warning filled as the last 2 attempts.
This was about the mildest rant I've ever seen in Great Debates I very much doubt the first 2 attempts were that bad
  #246  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:42 PM
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...more from acting USCIS director Ken Cuccinelli:

https://twitter.com/nick_ramsey/stat...36631469105152

Quote:
"The poem on the statue of liberty was about "people coming from europe."
They aren't even trying to hide it anymore.
  #247  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:43 PM
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"Dissemble" was a really bad choice of verbs for that statement. Do not accuse other posters of lying in GD or Elections.

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  #248  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
...would they? Are you sure? 20 years ago a random white person in Great Britian or Denmark had to worry about presenting their papers on no other pretext except the colour of their skin? Cite?



You've got Canada. You've got thousands of white people who over-stay their visa. There are hordes of white people who want to stay in America. Why aren't the very same methods and tactics used against white people as they are used against brown people? Are white overstayers objectively different to brown overstayers?



“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

Do you agree with that sentiment? Or, like USCIS director Ken Cuccinelli, do you think it should be changed to:

"give me your tired and your poor who can stand on their own two feet, and who will not become a public charge."



What if they are if you are obviously hispanic or haitian or African, but they speak perfectly fluent english in a broad and distinct American accent?
It’s definitely a compassionate and noble sentiment. However, it’s not always practical to treat poetry as policy.
  #249  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
The fact that they made an incredible difficult journey and came out still able to work is a testament to their toughness and work ethic.
I think a better testament would be staying in the troubled country and fixing it rather than breaking other people's laws just because it's easier.
  #250  
Old 08-13-2019, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
It’s definitely a compassionate and noble sentiment. However, it’s not always practical to treat poetry as policy.
...I didn't suggest you treat poetry as policy. I asked if Urbanredneck agreed with the sentiment. Do you agree with the sentiment? Do you believe in compassion and nobility? Do you think that "Mexico and Central America with millions of people there desperate for a better life" should not have the opportunity to seek a better life in America?
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