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Old 08-14-2019, 03:58 PM
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Matt Shea


My state representative Matt Shea is back in the news (ironically however, not in the local paper) again.

I'm cringing while I await the Crusades, Part Deux.
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:05 PM
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There is increasingly some very disturbing right wing activity coming out of places such as Oregon, Washington, Idaho, and Montana.

This isn't the first time that we've seen an uptick in the use of media to foment white nationalist violence. In the 1990s, there was radical talk radio. I think the OKC bombing and other high-profile incidents drove some of these people off the air, but there's no way to shut them down now in the day and age of the internet.

Lawmakers in Oregon and Washington have not just defended 2nd Amendment rights but have essentially made the case for political violence if they are out-voted.
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:23 PM
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Matt Shea - the man who was at the center of the biggest political dilemma I had to face in my life (as discussed in this 2014 thread). Since then, he's easily brushed back all Republican and Democratic opposition while I try to explain to people who live outside Spokane County that I never voted for him and am just living in his district temporarily.

As for the Guardian article, I think there's a glimmer of hope that he'll be dragged out to the state legislature in a straight jacket before any of his plans come to fruition.
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:26 PM
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Matt wants to create a new state to free us here in Eastern Washington from the demonic libs in Seattle. I can't believe my neighbors actually re-elected him after his "manifesto" became public.
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:28 PM
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Matt Shea - the man who was at the center of the biggest political dilemma I had to face in my life (as discussed in this 2014 thread). Since then, he's easily brushed back all Republican and Democratic opposition while I try to explain to people who live outside Spokane County that I never voted for him and am just living in his district temporarily.

As for the Guardian article, I think there's a glimmer of hope that he'll be dragged out to the state legislature in a straight jacket before any of his plans come to fruition.
God willing (heh) I so hope you are right.
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:28 PM
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Hey, any old politician can support and be guided by the constitution. It takes a really, um, special one, yeah...special one that's it to defend the Bible. Especially a politician that has done the above and beyond legwork of tailoring his own preferred interpretation of it.
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:07 PM
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Huh, I never knew that the Bible contained instructions on firearm use, nor that it said anything whatsoever about Muslims.
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:16 PM
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That's the cool part! You just pick and choose certain parts, and put them together. You can make it say anything.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:25 PM
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Matt wants to create a new state to free us here in Eastern Washington from the demonic libs in Seattle. I can't believe my neighbors actually re-elected him after his "manifesto" became public.
Don't laugh this off as right wing bat shittery -- they are not fucking around here. Same is true in Oregon and Idaho and Nevada and Ohio and elsewhere. I made a post about this in another thread: there is a white separatist movement, a white colonial movement, and they are willing to KILL people to make it happen. The Bundy clan is just the very beginning; look at what right wing cranks did to the Oregon legislature, and that gives you an idea of what's in store for the future.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:36 PM
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Don't laugh this off as right wing bat shittery -- they are not fucking around here. Same is true in Oregon and Idaho and Nevada and Ohio and elsewhere. I made a post about this in another thread: there is a white separatist movement, a white colonial movement, and they are willing to KILL people to make it happen. The Bundy clan is just the very beginning; look at what right wing cranks did to the Oregon legislature, and that gives you an idea of what's in store for the future.
Believe me, I'm not laughing it off. I used to wonder how on earth the holocaust could have happened. I don't wonder that any more.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:29 AM
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If you haven't listened to the excellent podcast, Bundyville, I recommend it. The second season focuses on the "matt shea" movement: The Redoubt, white christian identity, prepper, gun-loving, marble creek madness.

It baffles my mind that he keeps getting elected. I know a lot of it is ignorance and not knowing, but the sad part is, I think the majority of the voters agree with this horrible human being.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:26 PM
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If you haven't listened to the excellent podcast, Bundyville, I recommend it. The second season focuses on the "matt shea" movement: The Redoubt, white christian identity, prepper, gun-loving, marble creek madness.

It baffles my mind that he keeps getting elected. I know a lot of it is ignorance and not knowing, but the sad part is, I think the majority of the voters agree with this horrible human being.
Obviously, the US Northwest is a big space, but I remember while living in Oregon and traveling about the region (some years ago now) that there's just a different mentality out there. They are very much tied spiritually and politically to the ownership of their lands. Some of these people categorically reject federal authority, and they always have. They just see their space as having its own sovereignty. There are many more Bundy clans out there where Bundy came from, which is why we witnessed what we might essentially label jury nullification a few years ago during one of his trials.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:42 PM
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Here's a link to the podcast. The local paper finally has a story on Mr. Shea today. These people scare the crap out of me.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:48 PM
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Huh, I never knew that the Bible contained instructions on firearm use, nor that it said anything whatsoever about Muslims.
Book of Armaments, Chapter 3, Verses 6-35.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:18 PM
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Obviously, the US Northwest is a big space, but I remember while living in Oregon and traveling about the region (some years ago now) that there's just a different mentality out there. They are very much tied spiritually and politically to the ownership of their lands. Some of these people categorically reject federal authority, and they always have. They just see their space as having its own sovereignty. There are many more Bundy clans out there where Bundy came from, which is why we witnessed what we might essentially label jury nullification a few years ago during one of his trials.
Abso-fucking-lutely. Except, it isn't just the NW. This mentality is very strong in UT, NV, etc.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:19 PM
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They don’t seem to be much of a threat if they were to be allowed to secede. Forcing them into a union they disagree with could result in needless confrontation.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:24 PM
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They donít seem to be much of a threat if they were to be allowed to secede. Forcing them into a union they disagree with could result in needless confrontation.
They are already in the union. If they want to leave it they should find a country that wants someone of their ilk.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:27 PM
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They donít seem to be much of a threat if they were to be allowed to secede. Forcing them into a union they disagree with could result in needless confrontation.
Yeah, well, allowing any portion of the US to secede basically gives that small cohort power over the drawing of our national boundries. Not a good path the start down.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:32 PM
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They are already in the union. If they want to leave it they should find a country that wants someone of their ilk.
Why should they leave if they own the land?
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:34 PM
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Yeah, well, allowing any portion of the US to secede basically gives that small cohort power over the drawing of our national boundries. Not a good path the start down.
I disagree. Borders have changed since the dawn of time when they existed at all. Changing borders often reduces conflict.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:40 PM
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Why should they leave if they own the land?
How much land do "they" actually own themselves, and where might it be? Unless it is on the coast or it borders another country, then they might have a slight bit of difficulty importing and exporting goods, and since they have a long record of threatening physical violence against our government there might be a problem with travel to and from their little kingdoms.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:41 PM
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I disagree. Borders have changed since the dawn of time when they existed at all. Changing borders often reduces conflict.
How does the fact that borders have changed throughout history dispute the ramifications of my statement?
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:43 PM
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They originally wanted to call their new Utopia "Liberty", but they have now decided "Gilead" is more fitting.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:44 PM
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I disagree. Borders have changed since the dawn of time when they existed at all. Changing borders often reduces conflict.
Give me three good examples of border-changing lessening conflict.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:49 PM
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How much land do "they" actually own themselves, and where might it be? Unless it is on the coast or it borders another country, then they might have a slight bit of difficulty importing and exporting goods, and since they have a long record of threatening physical violence against our government there might be a problem with travel to and from their little kingdoms.
Small states are more likely to adopt free trade. They should pursue this policy and the US should too. I reckon they would not be so belligerent as a free tiny country.

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How does the fact that borders have changed throughout history dispute the ramifications of my statement?
It provides context for my subsequent claim that changing borders often reduces conflict.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:59 PM
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If we keep them in the country, they can't do much harm. At worst, they could blow up a few buildings.

If we let them leave, then they'll completely destroy our nation.
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:00 PM
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Clearly some people missed the part about killing off folks who want no part of the new theocracy. Or is there really nothing malevolent in that minor detail?
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:03 PM
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It provides context for my subsequent claim that changing borders often reduces conflict.
Again, who gets to decide borders? Does the US hand over that power to Matt Shea? What message does that send to anyone else with a specious beef?
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:05 PM
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It provides context for my subsequent claim that changing borders often reduces conflict.
Unless it's specifically about Matt Shea, it's a hijack. If you want to talk about general border disputes and the wonders of secession, do it in another thread.

[/moderating]
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:07 PM
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NM-Just saw the Mod Note.

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Old 08-15-2019, 03:20 PM
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The Guardian article sounds like a bunch of hyper-ventilating over not much. I imagine any reporter who wanted to take the time to, and slant their reporting that way, could write a very similar article about most Boy Scout summer camps.
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:29 PM
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The Guardian article sounds like a bunch of hyper-ventilating over not much. I imagine any reporter who wanted to take the time to, and slant their reporting that way, could write a very similar article about most Boy Scout summer camps.
Can you now get a Boy Scout badge in Battling Muslim Terrorists?
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:36 PM
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Can you now get a Boy Scout badge in Battling Muslim Terrorists?
Do you have to be a Vulture Scout to qualify for the Domestic Terrorist merit badge?
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:40 PM
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From the Spokesman Review article I linked above:

Quote:
“The entire purpose behind Team Rugged is to provide patriotic and biblical training on war for young men,” a man identified as the group’s leader, Patrick Caughran, wrote in a July 2016 email to Shea. “Everything about it is both politically incorrect and what would be considered shocking truth to most modern christians. There will be scenarios where every participant will have to fight against one of the most barbaric enemies that are invading our country, Muslims terrorists.”
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:41 PM
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If we keep them in the country, they can't do much harm. At worst, they could blow up a few buildings.

If we let them leave, then they'll completely destroy our nation.
Thousands of innocents dead in a rebellion by these folk is better than compromising the “nation”? Very cavalier attitude about human life.

Why would the nation be ruined by allowing these zealots to leave?

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Clearly some people missed the part about killing off folks who want no part of the new theocracy. Or is there really nothing malevolent in that minor detail?
Very malevolent. That’s why we let them establish a theocracy away from everyone else.

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Again, who gets to decide borders? Does the US hand over that power to Matt Shea? What message does that send to anyone else with a specious beef?
Of course there would have to be a vote or something. Like Brexit. Map out the territory and put it up for a vote for those in it.

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Old 08-15-2019, 03:46 PM
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The Guardian article sounds like a bunch of hyper-ventilating over not much. I imagine any reporter who wanted to take the time to, and slant their reporting that way, could write a very similar article about most Boy Scout summer camps.
I was raised in Northern Idaho, and I can tell you that they have absolutely nothing in common with each other.
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:46 PM
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Can you now get a Boy Scout badge in Battling Muslim Terrorists?
Not that I'm aware of, but a biased reporter could certainly describe a Boy Scout camp in terms like these:

"offering training to young men ... that includes how to use knives, pistols and rifles" (replacing pistols with archery maybe)

"a Christian organization that strongly believes in building manly character and the capability to stand in adversity in young men" (well, perhaps a little less now)

Team Rugged apparently isn't exactly like a Boy Scout camp, but it sounds a lot closer to that than the Branch Davidian compound.

"As of late July 2019, Team Rugged’s website listed Byrd as an instructor along with Caughran. The Team Rugged Facebook page listed several events in recent years at the Marble compound, including battles with Airsoft guns. Pictures on the Team Rugged website show young boys in fatigues in the forest, armed with Airsoft guns."

Half the guys I know have played around with paintball, airsoft, or BB guns like this, mostly in our youth. But the reporter sure tries hard to string it all together into something sinister-sounding. I guess he lost me when he started quoting SPLC and not in jest.

Basically, I think the Guardian is mostly yanking libs' chains. Have fun with that, I guess.

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Old 08-15-2019, 03:50 PM
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Basically, I think the Guardian is mostly yanking libs' chains. Have fun with that, I guess.
Regardless of the article, Mr. Shea is a troubling fellow. He uses "godless" as an insult.
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:51 PM
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Not that I'm aware of, but a biased reporter could certainly describe a Boy Scout camp in terms like these:

"offering training to young men ... that includes how to use knives, pistols and rifles" (replacing pistols with archery maybe)

"a Christian organization that strongly believes in building manly character and the capability to stand in adversity in young men" (well, perhaps a little less now)

Team Rugged apparently isn't exactly like a Boy Scout camp, but it sounds a lot closer to that than the Branch Davidian compound.

"As of late July 2019, Team Ruggedís website listed Byrd as an instructor along with Caughran. The Team Rugged Facebook page listed several events in recent years at the Marble compound, including battles with Airsoft guns. Pictures on the Team Rugged website show young boys in fatigues in the forest, armed with Airsoft guns."

Half the guys I know have played around with paintball, airsoft, or BB guns like this, mostly in our youth. But the reporter sure tries hard to string it all together into something sinister-sounding. I guess he lost me when he started quoting SPLC and not in jest.

Basically, I think the Guardian is mostly yanking libs' chains. Have fun with that, I guess.
Got any non-imaginary scenarios?
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:54 PM
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Regardless of the article, Mr. Shea is a troubling fellow. He uses "godless" as an insult.
If we're going to start judging people for using insults, the SDMB is full of troubling fellows, as is much of the rest of the world.

Look, I don't know Matt Shea, so perhaps it's possible that he's secretly plotting a coup and wants to install a theocracy. I'm skeptical though, and obviously-slanted reporting like the article from the OP does more to convince me that the reporter, and those who share his perspective, are more akin to Chicken Little than about Matt Shea's allegedly-sinister intentions.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 08-15-2019 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:57 PM
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If we're going to start judging people for using insults, the SDMB is full of troubled fellows, as is much of the rest of the world.

Look, I don't know Matt Shea, so perhaps it's possible that he's secretly plotting a coup and wants to install a theocracy. I'm skeptical though, and obviously-slanted reporting like the article from the OP does more to convince me that the reporter, and those who share his perspective, are more akin to Chicken Little than about Matt Shea's sinister intentions.
What actual evidence do you have that the article is slanted?
Edited to add: This isn't a Trump Rally, so you might have to do a bit more than declare it to be "fake news".

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Old 08-15-2019, 04:01 PM
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What actual evidence do you have that the article is slanted?
It quotes SPLC, for starters.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:02 PM
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It quotes SPLC, for starters.
So what? Got anything else, or is that your entire argument?

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Old 08-15-2019, 04:05 PM
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I don't think think anyone comparing a racist paramilitary group to the Boy Scouts has a leg to stand on when it comes to complaining about slanted reporting.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:10 PM
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So what? ...
The SPLC publishes false information. You may have heard about how they had to pay out millions of dollars last year in a settlement for falsely labeling someone an anti-Muslim extremist. They aren't an honest broker. They're biased, and they've been busted for it.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:21 PM
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I don't think think anyone comparing a racist paramilitary group to the Boy Scouts has a leg to stand on when it comes to complaining about slanted reporting.
I'm here on the SDMB sharing my own opinions on things. I'm not a reporter pretending to write a straight news piece for the paper. See the difference?

ETA: perusing this particular reporter's previous work shows a pretty clear bias against Republicans / conservatives / right-wingers.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 08-15-2019 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:29 PM
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I'm here on the SDMB sharing my own opinions on things. I'm not a reporter pretending to write a straight news piece for the paper. See the difference?

ETA: perusing this particular reporter's previous work shows a pretty clear bias against Republicans / conservatives / right-wingers.
How about the article linked to in post 13?
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:32 PM
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I'm here on the SDMB sharing my own opinions on things. I'm not a reporter pretending to write a straight news piece for the paper. See the difference?

ETA: perusing this particular reporter's previous work shows a pretty clear bias against Republicans / conservatives / right-wingers.
Bias against? He might be biased against criminal behaviour...but shouldn't he be?
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:42 PM
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Bias against? He might be biased against criminal behaviour...but shouldn't he be?
Try reading the post you quoted. I said exactly who I felt his bias was against there.

Is Matt Shea engaged in "criminal behaviour"? Is Team Rugged?
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:44 PM
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Try reading the post you quoted. I said exactly who I felt his bias was against there.

Is Matt Shea engaged in "criminal behaviour"?
Yes: https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...road-incident/
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