View Poll Results: Will Kentucky Republicans nullify the vote and give Matt Bevin the governorship?
Yes 25 26.60%
No 69 73.40%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:06 PM
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Will Kentucky Republicans nullify the vote and give Matt Bevin the governorship?


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/06/u...recanvass.html

It's true that KY republicans would probably rather he just concede, but if given the opportunity, I don't see how the state party could resist the special interests that would lean on them to prevent a Democratic governor from taking power.
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Old 11-10-2019, 09:21 PM
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I say No, but then again I thought that a huckster like Donald Trump could never win a national election. So I guess it's probably going to happen.
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Old 11-10-2019, 09:57 PM
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If he were just a little less hated, maybe. But he hasn't even polled that well among republicans, hovering around least to second-least popular governor in the country. He's abrasive and can't keep his damn trap shut to save his life. I'm not sure he's the guy other politicians are keen to stick their neck out for.
  #4  
Old 11-10-2019, 10:18 PM
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Gov.-elect Andy Beshear is the next governor.

It is therefore time to move on and let the KY GOP retool for 2023.

Bevin lost.

Time to move on.

This is why people don't like politics.


Do a quick recount and move forward.
  #5  
Old 11-10-2019, 10:24 PM
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Power abhors a vacuum. If the KY GOP think they can retain power, they'll do their damnedest. It's like taking gerrymandering to the next level.
  #6  
Old 11-10-2019, 10:53 PM
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"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy" --David Frum
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Old 11-11-2019, 01:01 AM
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I haven’t yet read (and the article doesn’t really explain) what the most extreme scenario is. Does the legislature have the ability to outright give the governorship to the candidate of their choice without restriction? If not, what are the restrictions? Could they declare the results null and void? What can happen if they do?
  #8  
Old 11-11-2019, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear Itself View Post
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy" --David Frum
Why bring Frum into it? The GOP hasn’t been conservative since 1994 (at the latest). They’ve already abandoned conservatism in favor of reactionary radicalism.

ETA: Of course, they’ve also abandoned democracy.

Last edited by kaylasdad99; 11-11-2019 at 03:49 AM.
  #9  
Old 11-11-2019, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Randroid View Post
If he were just a little less hated, maybe. But he hasn't even polled that well among republicans, hovering around least to second-least popular governor in the country. He's abrasive and can't keep his damn trap shut to save his life. I'm not sure he's the guy other politicians are keen to stick their neck out for.
I've heard/read he wasn't doing particularly well among Republicans, but he would have won the vote had a considerable number not voted libertarian, which doesn't invalidate the result, but it's a political truth.
  #10  
Old 11-11-2019, 06:56 AM
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If he were just a little less hated, he would have actually won.

I think it's a given that they're going to try. The question is just whether they'll succeed. It should go all the way to the Supreme Court, if they're not stopped by a state court first. But with the current court, there's a significant chance that they'll lie and say it's a political question, and that they therefore won't get involved.
  #11  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
Why bring Frum into it? The GOP hasn’t been conservative since 1994 (at the latest). They’ve already abandoned conservatism in favor of reactionary radicalism.

ETA: Of course, they’ve also abandoned democracy.
You're right. There's a term for a reactionary movement on the right. Let me see what was it. Oh yeah. Fascism.

With respect to the OP, I believe they're considering it. They just need to find that thin layer of veneer they can put over their most blatant attempt to subvert democracy (so far). I think they'd like to, and I'm sure they will try. There is no question at all they would rather have Bevin then a "Demonrat".

Last edited by BeepKillBeep; 11-11-2019 at 08:13 AM.
  #12  
Old 11-11-2019, 09:54 AM
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No, this is a bridge too far even for the US Fascist Party.
  #13  
Old 11-11-2019, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/06/u...recanvass.html

It's true that KY republicans would probably rather he just concede, but if given the opportunity, I don't see how the state party could resist the special interests that would lean on them to prevent a Democratic governor from taking power.


https://www.npr.org/2019/11/10/77730...rosive-effects
Quote:
Republican Senate President Robert Stivers said in an interview Friday that Bevin should concede if next week's recanvass doesn't radically change the election results.

"It's time to call it quits and go home, say he had a good four years and congratulate Gov.-elect Beshear," said Stivers, in an interview with Louisville's Courier-Journal.

Last edited by CarnalK; 11-11-2019 at 10:12 AM.
  #14  
Old 11-11-2019, 10:22 AM
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A less drastic possibility which is much more likely- the legislature passes legislation stripping the governor of as much power as possible to be signed by the outgoing governor as he goes out the door.

Last edited by BobLibDem; 11-11-2019 at 10:23 AM.
  #15  
Old 11-11-2019, 11:27 AM
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No, the Kentucky Governor is a pretty ‘weak Governor’ as far as state politics goes. It only takes a majority in both chambers to override a veto.

The governor will spend more time welcoming the high school football champs and cutting ribbons for a new Walmart than political arm twisting, regardless of party.
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  #16  
Old 11-11-2019, 12:51 PM
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Does this power also extend to elections for US Senators? In other words, can McConnell "request" that the Kentucky state legislature "reelect" him in 2020?
  #17  
Old 11-11-2019, 01:12 PM
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What are talking about? All that has happened so far is the incumbent asked for a recanvass of the vote. As far as I can tell, all that does is check for clerical errors.
  #18  
Old 11-11-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
What are talking about? All that has happened so far is the incumbent asked for a recanvass of the vote. As far as I can tell, all that does is check for clerical errors.
If the election is contested due to irregularities, it can go to a committee of legislators, which would be dominated by Republicans who could potentially swing it Bevin's way. There's no evidence of any such irregularities, but they're looking pretty hard right now.

IMO, it won't go anywhere. Overturning the election like that would be a real political risk, and nobody is going to take a risk like that on Bevin's behalf. I hope i don't have to eat those words.
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Old 11-11-2019, 03:44 PM
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They're not really looking hard for irregularities. From what I've read, the recanvass consists mainly of getting the vote machine to reprint up their results and check them against what was reported.
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Old 11-11-2019, 04:10 PM
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If all it takes to override a veto is a majority in both chambers, then what does a veto even accomplish at all? If you have the votes to pass in the first place, then you also have the votes to overturn.
  #21  
Old 11-11-2019, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
They're not really looking hard for irregularities. From what I've read, the recanvass consists mainly of getting the vote machine to reprint up their results and check them against what was reported.
Bevin has claimed that there are irregularities. I understand that some GOP have already indicated they're ready to move on, but I just wonder what would really happen if he refused to accept the outcome. The ball would be in their court.
  #22  
Old 11-11-2019, 04:30 PM
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There have also been robocalls from a state GOP activist group asking people to call and report irregularities before the recanvass deadline.
https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...ss/2528098001/
  #23  
Old 11-11-2019, 04:33 PM
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If all it takes to override a veto is a majority in both chambers, then what does a veto even accomplish at all? If you have the votes to pass in the first place, then you also have the votes to overturn.
It's a weak veto power, but I can see two possible ways it could influence things:

1) It's an opportunity for the governor to push back politically, because the vetoed bill is sent back with detailed objections. "I think this is bad for these reasons, and I'm willing to fight you on it." The objections could theoretically persuade enough of the legislature to block, change, or clarify the bill. (It could also be a signal that the governor's party is going to try to use the new law against those who voted for it electorally, in an effort to erode legislative support for the bill.)

2) I believe the Kentucky governor has a line-item veto. If the governor picks relatively unpopular parts of the bill in question to veto, some legislators who voted for an overall compromise package would probably not be particular motivated to override the veto. The governor might not be able to stop the whole bill, but could potentially strip a poison pill out of it.
  #24  
Old 11-11-2019, 06:05 PM
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Anybody can claim irregularities. There are always a few, not enough to overturn the official count (usually), but enough to claim there are. I can't imagine him not trying and then it is up to the Republican legislature. Would they vote for democracy? I don't see them doing that. You have power; use it. The Republican party is without shame.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:11 PM
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McConnell seems to have given up on Bevin and is ready to call it done.
Quote:
“I’m sorry Matt came up short, but he had a good four years and I think all indications are — barring some dramatic reversal on recanvass — that we’ll have a different governor in three weeks,”
[...]
“My first election was almost the exactly the same number of votes that Beshear won by. We had a recanvass, they added them up, it didn’t change and we all moved on,” McConnell said.
I suspect that GOP leaders have asked Bevin about his supposed "irregularities" and know that he's just desperately blowing smoke.
  #26  
Old 11-14-2019, 02:46 PM
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Bevin Concedes.
  #27  
Old 11-14-2019, 03:06 PM
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Best timestamped event:
Quote:
11:20 a.m.: With results from 51/120 counties, the recanvass has not changed any vote totals for Bevin or Beshear. However, Blackii Effing Whyte (a real candidate) picked up one vote in Casey County, the only "issue" so far.
  #28  
Old 11-15-2019, 10:33 AM
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I suppose it wouldn't be fair to vote No at this point.

Regards,
Shodan
  #29  
Old 11-15-2019, 01:03 PM
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I did. This thread is stupid.
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  #30  
Old 11-15-2019, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricksummon View Post
Does this power also extend to elections for US Senators? In other words, can McConnell "request" that the Kentucky state legislature "reelect" him in 2020?
No; the provision is specific to gubernatorial elections. Moscow Mitch wants the whole idea to just go away, lest it enrage and energize Kentucky Democrats just in time for his election.
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Old 11-15-2019, 02:35 PM
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No; the provision is specific to gubernatorial elections. Moscow Mitch wants the whole idea to just go away, lest it enrage and energize Kentucky Democrats just in time for his election.
Because Lord knows the Democrats have absolutely no other reason to be enraged at him and the GOP as a whole.
  #32  
Old 11-15-2019, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Best timestamped event:

I love it when whackadoodle candidates run on a ballot just for shits and giggles.
  #33  
Old 11-16-2019, 12:08 PM
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I suppose it wouldn't be fair to vote No at this point.

Regards,
Shodan
Maybe not, but is it ever a good idea to pass up an opportunity to cast a vote for the winning side of an issue?

Waitaminute, is this a public poll? Lemme check. No, nobody can see how you voted. No apparent benefit now, I suppose.
  #34  
Old 11-21-2019, 08:28 PM
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A fun little coda on this story:

At Matt Bevin's afterparty, a woman in a business suit and Wonder Woman t-shirt ran up to the mic, announced that Bevin had won (he had not), and bounced up and down for a while before being ushered off the stage and out of the Galt House.

Someone finally caught up with her and did an interview, and she's a doozy.

"I felt it was a spiritual thing," she says. I suspect the spirit in question was vodka.
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