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  #351  
Old 11-25-2019, 11:55 AM
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My post didn't attribute any motivations to her.
Quote:
because they thought it might help their side in a political squabble
  #352  
Old 11-25-2019, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
My post didn't attribute any motivations to her. It was silent on her intent, motivations, and whether her claims were true or false.
Ah, then "because they thought it might help their side in a political squabble" is silent on intent.

Well, that's a new one to me.
  #353  
Old 11-25-2019, 01:04 PM
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Asserting a motive (especially a malicious motive, as worded) other than "to tell her story", "speak truth to power", or similar, is directly implying dishonesty.
  #354  
Old 11-25-2019, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
My post didn't attribute any motivations to her. It was silent on her intent, motivations, and whether her claims were true or false.
No it wasnít. What you are stating right now is not true. You attributed a political motivation, specifically to help Democrats, which contradicts her claimed motivation of wanting to prevent the nomination of a man she insists assaulted her sexually (which is not a partisan motivation).

Your own words are on this board for everyone to read. You canít keep pretending you didnít say what you said.
  #355  
Old 11-25-2019, 01:33 PM
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Your own words are on this board for everyone to read. You canít keep pretending you didnít say what you said.
Weird, isn't it? I could understand it somewhat in the early days of this board, which were also the early days of the Web: people were still used to thinking in terms of verbal conversations, where you couldn't reach back and pull up what someone had said twenty minutes earlier in the debate. So it sometimes caught people off guard when you'd say, "no, that's not what you were saying earlier in this thread," and quote their post.

But in 2019?? Very weird.
  #356  
Old 11-25-2019, 01:56 PM
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Weird, isn't it? I could understand it somewhat in the early days of this board, which were also the early days of the Web: people were still used to thinking in terms of verbal conversations, where you couldn't reach back and pull up what someone had said twenty minutes earlier in the debate. So it sometimes caught people off guard when you'd say, "no, that's not what you were saying earlier in this thread," and quote their post.

But in 2019?? Very weird.
"...in 2019?? Yup" Fixed that for ya.
  #357  
Old 11-25-2019, 01:57 PM
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I mean, it's 2019 and TPTB still haven't cottoned on to the concept of a troll, so...
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"Until their much-needed total political extinction, you can expect the GOP to continue to take corporate money to systemically murder you and everyone you know."
- A. R. Moxon
  #358  
Old 11-25-2019, 02:00 PM
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This is going to sound really simplistic and I don't mean for it to. I hope it is a signpost for betterment.

Women hold up half the sky.
And we should act accordingly.


I cannot redress what has gone before. But we can strive to do better going forward.

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  #359  
Old 11-25-2019, 02:04 PM
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Starting now?
  #360  
Old 11-25-2019, 02:08 PM
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Will this mean active recruitment of female mods?

I wouldn't mind seeing Elections and GD having only female mods for a year or so, coming in jackboots a-stompin and banhammer a-swingin, to make some needed changes. Let Tom and JC take a break or take on a different forum.
  #361  
Old 11-25-2019, 02:16 PM
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Stay tuned for further developments.

Jenny
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I can say no more.
  #362  
Old 11-25-2019, 02:34 PM
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That... sounds positive, I suppose. Hopefully the results will be for the better. Please keep the board updated as to the progress. And I hope we will get a judgment on this particular instance, even if it's just for information and education rather than for disciplinary purposes.
  #363  
Old 11-25-2019, 02:38 PM
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I'll credit it when I see it. We've heard this tune before...
  #364  
Old 11-25-2019, 04:05 PM
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nm (dup of other poster)

Last edited by RaftPeople; 11-25-2019 at 04:06 PM.
  #365  
Old 11-25-2019, 05:08 PM
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I'll credit it when I see it. We've heard this tune before...
Exactly, and not that long ago.
  #366  
Old 11-25-2019, 06:07 PM
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Women hold up half the sky.
Oh we quoting Mao now ? Fucking finally. I'll get started on the Molotovs.



(I kid, I kid. You know how it is - no one cared who I was until I put on the Marx...)

Last edited by Kobal2; 11-25-2019 at 06:08 PM.
  #367  
Old 11-27-2019, 08:45 PM
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Is this still under discussion? Is it just under the broader topic of "We're trying to make the Dope better"? Or something else? I'm still interested, and I don't think it's been adequately resolved, for what it's worth.
  #368  
Old 11-28-2019, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Is this still under discussion? Is it just under the broader topic of "We're trying to make the Dope better"? Or something else? I'm still interested, and I don't think it's been adequately resolved, for what it's worth.
Good question. Because the specific problem of misogyny on the Dope really overshadows whatever other problems we have, AFAIAC. I'm concerned that if it gets rolled into some broader "making the Dope better" agenda, it likely won't get addressed in anything near a sufficient manner.
  #369  
Old 11-28-2019, 11:06 AM
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This is a really good point. Our problems are racism and sexism. Trying to abstract that isn't necessary nor helpful.
  #370  
Old 11-28-2019, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Manda JO View Post
This is a really good point. Our problems are racism and sexism. Trying to abstract that isn't necessary nor helpful.
Transphobia/transmisogyny are in there, too. I think the underlying problem is how the board deals with bigotry, which is why, in all of those "make the board better" posts, I keep bringing it up.

Even the "settled topics" stuff is about bigotry, in my opinion. Those are the topics that are settled. The fact that sexism, racism, transphobia, etc. are incorrect is settled.

Misogyny is the first thing to deal with, because it affects the most. Then probably racism. Then likely transphobia before homophobia, as there is more of the former. By that point, I'd expect that we'd have a general idea of how to deal with bigotry, and could then use that same framework (with tweaking) for any other form of bigotry.

Combine that with "you can't use someone's trauma to attack them" which deals with the worst of the anti-mentally ill bigotry, and you have a workable solution.
  #371  
Old 11-29-2019, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Transphobia/transmisogyny are in there, too. I think the underlying problem is how the board deals with bigotry, which is why, in all of those "make the board better" posts, I keep bringing it up.

Even the "settled topics" stuff is about bigotry, in my opinion. Those are the topics that are settled. The fact that sexism, racism, transphobia, etc. are incorrect is settled.

Misogyny is the first thing to deal with, because it affects the most. Then probably racism. Then likely transphobia before homophobia, as there is more of the former. By that point, I'd expect that we'd have a general idea of how to deal with bigotry, and could then use that same framework (with tweaking) for any other form of bigotry.

Combine that with "you can't use someone's trauma to attack them" which deals with the worst of the anti-mentally ill bigotry, and you have a workable solution.
Seconded.
  #372  
Old 11-29-2019, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Transphobia/transmisogyny are in there, too. I think the underlying problem is how the board deals with bigotry, which is why, in all of those "make the board better" posts, I keep bringing it up.

Even the "settled topics" stuff is about bigotry, in my opinion. Those are the topics that are settled. The fact that sexism, racism, transphobia, etc. are incorrect is settled.

Misogyny is the first thing to deal with, because it affects the most. Then probably racism. Then likely transphobia before homophobia, as there is more of the former. By that point, I'd expect that we'd have a general idea of how to deal with bigotry, and could then use that same framework (with tweaking) for any other form of bigotry.

Combine that with "you can't use someone's trauma to attack them" which deals with the worst of the anti-mentally ill bigotry, and you have a workable solution.
I agree. I was mentally lumping all gender issues under "sexism".
  #373  
Old 12-02-2019, 12:19 PM
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So, mods... can we at least get some sort of status on this -- i.e. "yes, this issue is still under discussion among the staff" or "no, we consider this resolved", or even "we're not sure what to do about this but once we've hired more moderators we're going to come up with a plan"?
  #374  
Old 12-02-2019, 02:00 PM
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In our everyday actions here we are working on improving things.

We appreciate the ongoing discussions that are helping to shape our choices.

We hope users take at least some of this to heart. Change needs to come from all participants.

All any of us can do is to strive to do better. It takes time and effort to lift a culture.

It likewise takes a minute or two to bring new moderators on board. We don't just read an application, approve them on the spot, grant them privileges, and throw them on the board to figure it out themselves. There's a process and it's ongoing.

Jenny
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Last edited by TubaDiva; 12-02-2019 at 02:05 PM. Reason: two likewise
  #375  
Old 12-02-2019, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TubaDiva View Post
In our everyday actions here we are working on improving things.

We appreciate the ongoing discussions that are helping to shape our choices.

We hope users likewise take at least some of this to heart. Change needs to come from all participants.

All any of us can do is to strive to do better. It takes time and effort to lift a culture.

It likewise takes a minute or two to bring new moderators on board. We don't just read an application, approve them on the spot, grant them privileges, and throw them on the board to figure it out themselves. There's a process and it's ongoing.

Jenny
your humble TubaDiva
Administrator
Thank you. To be clear, my post was not meant as a criticism of the moderator approval process at all. I'm eager to see the staff's (existing and future) views on how we can improve the board WRT misogyny in general as well as some determination about the specific case that sparked this discussion, even if it's just for informational purposes without a warning or other disciplinary action.
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