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  #51  
Old 11-19-2019, 06:10 AM
Boycott is offline
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Originally Posted by Barack Obama View Post
That core group is referred to as the establishment.

Those voters are referred to as low informed, and or centrist.

Sanders didn't help Trump get elected, on the contrary the DNC rigging their primaries against sanders, the media sweeping him under the rug while giving Trump billions in free air time, is what gave Trump the win. If they had pushed Sanders instead of Hillary, we would not have lost 2016.

Also how confident are you? Are you willing to place money on that? Personally, I have. So which one of us is more confident?
Black voters overwhelmingly voted for Hillary over Bernie. And they form the bulk of Biden's support as represented by his numbers in the Southern states. I would be very careful about using the expression "low informed voters".
  #52  
Old 11-19-2019, 07:06 AM
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If I'm reading his tweet right, he doesn't think anybody should be in jail for pot use, he favors medical marijuana in all cases, and he favors letting states decide on recreational use.
OK, I retract my previous post, which was purely a response to the OP, and I now see that the title misrepresented what Biden said. It made it sound like he wanted no changes at all to existing federal law. Decriminalizing cannabis (not legalizing), removing it from Schedule 1 which essentially deems it a dangerous narcotic, and leaving legalization decisions to the individual states, is in my view exactly the right thing to do.

FTR, the present legal status of cannabis in federal law is largely due to the aforementioned Harry Anslinger, who back in the 20s and early 30s had been head of Prohibition enforcement and was a self-serving racist asshole looking for something to do when Prohibition inevitably ended. Suffice it to say that this is one of his more famous quotes: "Reefer makes darkies think theyíre as good as white men. There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the U.S., and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others."

The Schedule 1 classification of cannabis, the same classification as heroin, is largely due to the legacy of Harry Anslinger.
  #53  
Old 11-19-2019, 08:45 AM
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Now let's say, Biden vs Trump it's 2020, and we're in a heated election. Trump goes on stage and says, you know what? Let's legalize marijuana. Guess what? He just got a huge bump of support for that comment. And he just pulled a lot of voters to his side even ones who dislike him greatly just because he wants to in theory legalize marijuana. All trump has to do is run on this, and what little division in his base there will be over this can be squashed by him leading the reigns and making claims about how good for the economy it would be, hell he could even bring up immigration and tie legalization into killing cartel profits.
Are you saying that supporters of legal marijuana are so out of it (for reasons I shall not imply) that they will vote for the Muslim ban guy who was impeached by the House in hopes that Trump doesn't backtrack on his transparent and lame attempt at triangulation?

Talk about low information voters.
  #54  
Old 11-19-2019, 08:57 AM
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Ok, I agree that calling it a gateway drug (well, questioning if it may be) is kinda dumb. But the position he has taken is still a massive move forward and would make state legalization much more meaningful. I stand by my initial impression: A pot supporter should not be crying about it.
Insofar as it currently stands, weed IS a gateway drug. It is usually the first drug any drug user tries. It gets them in the door. Some happen to move on to other drugs.
Some never do. But as a gateway to illegal drug use, weed is most folks first step.

Legalizing weed would remove the gateway aspect to drugs because it is no longer the first baby step to potentially harder drugs.
  #55  
Old 11-19-2019, 09:39 AM
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Support for legalization of recreational marijuana is at an all time high
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-legalization/

Americans overwhelmingly support legalization of marijuana, and not just medical either, more people support legalization of recreational AND medical. Over 2/3rds of the country supports legalization. Marijuana ties into many other critical issues, such as criminal justice, immigration, and healthcare.

I believe this is going to absolutely kill Biden off in the primaries, sure he'll still sit in the top 3 for sometime, but like before thats only because the low informed people who are more likely to go to polls, know his name and know his face. When he comes out and makes his positions more public, it hurts him. Doubling down on Obamacare, that hurts him on the left, and right. Not supporting legal marijuana, that hurts him on the left greatly, and even the right. 55% of gen X republicans and 49% of boomer republicans support legalizing marijuana.

Now let's say, Biden vs Trump it's 2020, and we're in a heated election. Trump goes on stage and says, you know what? Let's legalize marijuana. Guess what? He just got a huge bump of support for that comment. And he just pulled a lot of voters to his side even ones who dislike him greatly just because he wants to in theory legalize marijuana. All trump has to do is run on this, and what little division in his base there will be over this can be squashed by him leading the reigns and making claims about how good for the economy it would be, hell he could even bring up immigration and tie legalization into killing cartel profits. And he would be right. Biden is handing this position to trump on a silver platter just waiting for it to blow up in his face.


I have 0 clue how you can be an old ass boomer who's been involved in politics his entire life, and not realize how much of a fuck up going out and saying this is. Is anyone here going to argue we should be running candidates who still think marijuana is a gateway drug and shouldn't be legalized?
His thinking will evolve on this just like Obama's thinking on gay marriage.

He loses almost no votes for saying this (seriously, no one is going to go from Biden to Trump over this, noone) and he gains electability in exurb/rural areas.

Suck it up. I'm voting for the democrat even though they all support stupid forms of gun control. If you want a candidate that agrees with you on everything, you have to run.
  #56  
Old 11-19-2019, 09:53 AM
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Insofar as it currently stands, weed IS a gateway drug. It is usually the first drug any drug user tries. It gets them in the door. Some happen to move on to other drugs.
Some never do. But as a gateway to illegal drug use, weed is most folks first step.

Legalizing weed would remove the gateway aspect to drugs because it is no longer the first baby step to potentially harder drugs.
There was a rise in cocaine and heroin use during prohibition. Illegal drugs are the gateway to other illegal drugs.

Legalize alcohol and all of a sudden speakeasies no longer want to jeopardize their liquor license by selling cocaine.

Organized crime no longer has a line of customers coming to them for one drug, giving them an opportunity to sell other drugs.

OTOH. legalizing (and taxing) weed increases consumption. High taxes means that the legal weed will be better quality because the tax per gram is so high the retail difference between ditch weed and humbolt county skunk becomes negligible. So the ditch weeds gets sold on the street for 1980's prices because the cost of doing business is limited to loss of product and a misdemeanor (like selling unstamped cigarettes). Noone is going to kill you over it. Lower prices = higher consumption.
  #57  
Old 11-19-2019, 09:55 AM
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People won't support Pete over Bernie because he doesn't want M4A. Plus the issues of racism in his hometown will come back to haunt him anytime he gets a lift in polling. Trump would kneecap him, i can see him coining the term "Racist Pete".
There's a lot of people that are not sure that M4A is the best next step. A public option seems more palatable to a lot of people that already have private health insurance.

Disclosure, I don't really support Butigieg, I support whoever can deliver the most decisive electoral victory over Trump. I don't want to win by a little bit, I want the win to be so overwhelming that no one will ever be tempted to nominate someone like him again. If that candidate is someone that I disagree with on 40% of the issues, then so be it.
  #58  
Old 11-19-2019, 12:17 PM
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There's a lot of people that are not sure that M4A is the best next step. A public option seems more palatable to a lot of people that already have private health insurance.

Disclosure, I don't really support Butigieg, I support whoever can deliver the most decisive electoral victory over Trump. I don't want to win by a little bit, I want the win to be so overwhelming that no one will ever be tempted to nominate someone like him again. If that candidate is someone that I disagree with on 40% of the issues, then so be it.

Wait is this an argument about what you think voters will support, or which is better? For the former, last polls I saw had M4A over 60% and for the latter under Bernie's M4A bill you'd have all the coverage your insurance provides probably more and you would see more money in your pocket when you subtract the cost of your private healthcare from what tax increase you probably will see. All grey area coverage and cosmetics would get picked up by private insurance. Pete recently got boo'd for making the bogus claim of having an option of M4A or not. Voters who aren't dedicated to a certain candidate understand the nuance, you either diminish priv reliance or you don't.
  #59  
Old 11-19-2019, 02:05 PM
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I am a pot supporter, though happily in Canada. Biden's position is a perfectly reasonable major step forward in how the US deals with marijuana and seems to sweep away the problems of prohibition. If I was voting in the primaries this wouldn't cost him my support in any way.
Yes, very reasonable.

Taking these steps:No one should be in jail for marijuana
-Decriminalize and expunge records
-Legalize medical
- Allow states to legalize
-Remove from schedule 1 to allow research

Will more or less legalize it.
  #60  
Old 11-19-2019, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Barack Obama View Post
...
Sanders didn't help Trump get elected, on the contrary the DNC rigging their primaries against sanders, the media sweeping him under the rug while giving Trump billions in free air time, is what gave Trump the win. If they had pushed Sanders instead of Hillary, we would not have lost 2016.
....?
This is why most of us Dems don't support Sanders. The whole "we wuz robbed, the elections were rigged" ignores the fact that the POPULAR vote was overwhelmingly in Hillarys favor. It also ignores the fact that the Kremlin supported Sanders so that Trump could win and the fact that the skeletons in Bernies closet hadnt been disclosed yet by the GOP. And you Bernie Bros keep bringing it up, over and over and over and over, even in threads where it has no relevance is annoying.
  #61  
Old 11-19-2019, 03:08 PM
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If states allowed to outlaw it, then some will but enforce only against blacks (and maybe Hispanics).

The one and only time I was in Mississippi, I had a beer in a tavern that had displayed on the mirror behind the bartender, a state issued "Black Market Liquor License". I assume that MS was dry and was using it to control blacks. Rinse and repeat with marijuana.

But this will not be a blip on Biden's campaign.
  #62  
Old 11-19-2019, 06:22 PM
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If states allowed to outlaw it, then some will but enforce only against blacks (and maybe Hispanics).

The one and only time I was in Mississippi, I had a beer in a tavern that had displayed on the mirror behind the bartender, a state issued "Black Market Liquor License". I assume that MS was dry and was using it to control blacks. Rinse and repeat with marijuana.
.
I'm not going to defend Mississippi's racial history but those are rather strange assumptions.
  #63  
Old 11-19-2019, 07:01 PM
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This is why most of us Dems don't support Sanders. The whole "we wuz robbed, the elections were rigged" ignores the fact that the POPULAR vote was overwhelmingly in Hillarys favor. It also ignores the fact that the Kremlin supported Sanders so that Trump could win and the fact that the skeletons in Bernies closet hadnt been disclosed yet by the GOP. And you Bernie Bros keep bringing it up, over and over and over and over, even in threads where it has no relevance is annoying.
You sound like a trump supporter. Are you asserting the notion that Hillary would do better in 2020 than Bernie? Let me just clarify your position here

Hillary clinton is more favorable than Bernie Sanders, according to you? Sorry to tell you but a lot of us find that notion hilarious because it comes off as a joke.
  #64  
Old 11-19-2019, 07:02 PM
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Yes, very reasonable.

Taking these steps:No one should be in jail for marijuana
-Decriminalize and expunge records
-Legalize medical
- Allow states to legalize
-Remove from schedule 1 to allow research

Will more or less legalize it.
No, that does not "more or less legalize it"
  #65  
Old 11-19-2019, 07:15 PM
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You sound like a trump supporter. Are you asserting the notion that Hillary would do better in 2020 than Bernie? Let me just clarify your position here

Hillary clinton is more favorable than Bernie Sanders, according to you? Sorry to tell you but a lot of us find that notion hilarious because it comes off as a joke.
It's well known here that i am a diehard Democrat since 1976 and was a delegate for Scoop Jackson. Of course i did vote for Arnie for Governator.

No, I am asserting that Hillary did better in 2016 than Bernie would have.

The 'favorable" ratings were false due to the fact that instead of using the GOP hate machine and Russian trolls to attack Bernie, they HELPED him. If Bernie had won the nomination the attacks would have made Sanders lose by a landslide.

Last edited by DrDeth; 11-19-2019 at 07:17 PM.
  #66  
Old 11-19-2019, 07:17 PM
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You sound like a trump supporter. Are you asserting the notion that Hillary would do better in 2020 than Bernie? Let me just clarify your position here

Hillary clinton is more favorable than Bernie Sanders, according to you? Sorry to tell you but a lot of us find that notion hilarious because it comes off as a joke.
I'm not DrDeth but I'll offer my views.

Yes, Hillary Clinton was a stronger candidate than Bernie Sanders. We know this because they ran against each other in several primaries - and she got more votes.

If Sanders couldn't get more votes from Democrats in the primaries, he never would have gotten more votes among all voters in the general election.
  #67  
Old 11-19-2019, 07:41 PM
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Regardless, I don't the Biden Marijuana thread has to contain a "Bernie wuz robbed" hijack.
  #68  
Old 11-19-2019, 08:05 PM
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I'm not DrDeth but I'll offer my views.

Yes, Hillary Clinton was a stronger candidate than Bernie Sanders. We know this because they ran against each other in several primaries - and she got more votes.

If Sanders couldn't get more votes from Democrats in the primaries, he never would have gotten more votes among all voters in the general election.
Let me ask you this, let's say we're at the DNC. Hillary jumped in the race and is there speaking about 2020. How do you think the crowd responds?

Now say, same place same time, but Hillary isn't in the picture and it's Sanders up there doing his thing. How do you think the crowd responds?


Now if you're going to honestly tell me you believe the crowd goes in an uproar of support for Hillary but starts booing sanders, then we're on two totally different planets when it comes to this.

Also you don't know that, but what you do know if you've looked it up, Bernie Sanders pulls more trump supporters than any other candidate, and there was an entire movement of Bernie or Bust people who refused to vote hillary along with many more who simply did not like her, so those people either went independent, republican, or didn't vote. Bernie is the guy who increases voter turn out, and dominates among young voters. Even with everything against him in 2016, he managed to come out so strong he literally set the playing field for 2020. You even have centrists bending a knee like Pete trying their damnest to appeal to these bernie voters by making up bs throwing "M4A" into their healthcare plan. Bernie would have destroyed Trump in 2020, and the reason why we have him in office today is because the DNC dropped the ball trying to keep their favorable people in power.

Last edited by Barack Obama; 11-19-2019 at 08:09 PM.
  #69  
Old 11-19-2019, 08:48 PM
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And you don't feel the tiniest bit silly about being so confident in your alternate history story?

Last edited by CarnalK; 11-19-2019 at 08:48 PM.
  #70  
Old 11-19-2019, 10:49 PM
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I see zero point in addressing your vague yet specifically numbered demographic recollections and ruminations.
LOL. I'm going to use this sentence when I can't win an argument.
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  #71  
Old 11-19-2019, 10:51 PM
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...., and there was an entire movement of Bernie or Bust people who refused to vote hillary along with many more who simply did not like her, so those people either went independent, republican, or didn't vote......
Exactly why we dont like the Bernie Bros. You guys gave us 4 years of trump because of this.
  #72  
Old 11-19-2019, 11:07 PM
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Why the hell are we rehashing Bernie/Hillary in a Biden and weed thread.

Knock off the hijack.
  #73  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:25 AM
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LOL. I'm going to use this sentence when I can't win an argument.
Awesome. I'm gonna get rich off the royalties.

Last edited by CarnalK; 11-20-2019 at 12:26 AM.
  #74  
Old 11-20-2019, 10:28 AM
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Why the hell are we rehashing Bernie/Hillary in a Biden and weed thread.
Heh.
  #75  
Old 11-21-2019, 09:47 PM
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Exactly why we dont like the Bernie Bros. You guys gave us 4 years of trump because of this.
Well hopefully if Biden gets pushed to the general election, then let's just hope Trump doesn't decide to appeal to libertarians and leftists by kneecapping biden on marjiuana and proposes full legalization.

That's a hope, i'd rather not have to have. How do I defend such a moronic position on weed being a gateway drug to someone who'd rather not vote or vote independent if their only choice was Biden or Trump? Seriously, how are we or I should say, yall going to defend this? By saying it's better than nothing lol?
  #76  
Old 11-21-2019, 10:12 PM
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You seem to be so radical on this that you are super duper overestimating lefty rage on this. Leftists, who are not pot activists, will be perfectly comfortable with this. You are way, way, way off base.
  #77  
Old 11-21-2019, 10:20 PM
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Wanted to add: Libertarians too, I should think, would be comfortable. Decriminalization is mostly good enough, especially if states can legalize. Probably better than legalization for libertarians in some ways. Federal legalization would come with big fat rules.

Last edited by CarnalK; 11-21-2019 at 10:21 PM.
  #78  
Old 12-06-2019, 12:40 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g51dwY0wuak

This kind of shit is going to cost us the election if the DNC decides to rig their election and force Biden into the nomination like they did hillary.

A vote for biden, is a vote for trump.
  #79  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:56 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g51dwY0wuak

This kind of shit is going to cost us the election if the DNC decides to rig their election and force Biden into the nomination like they did hillary.

A vote for biden, is a vote for trump.
Biden really needs to chill out. If only there were some sort of natural remedy that he could use.
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  #80  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:01 AM
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My therapist said that she knows quite a few people getting good results with CBD oil for anxiety. It's available here in NC and other states where pot is not legal in any form. Since we are in the Bible belt I don't expect any pot to be legal for a long while.

Last edited by Bijou Drains; 12-06-2019 at 11:01 AM.
  #81  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:18 AM
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My therapist said that she knows quite a few people getting good results with CBD oil for anxiety. It's available here in NC and other states where pot is not legal in any form. Since we are in the Bible belt I don't expect any pot to be legal for a long while.
I'm in Oklahoma and we have "medicinal" marijuana, so you never know. Judging from the number of dispensaries that have popped up in the last year, we must have a serious glaucoma epidemic.
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  #82  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:51 AM
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I guess there is a slight chance of medical pot here in NC but even that may wait until the Dems get back in control of state house and senate, and that probably won't happen soon.
  #83  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:06 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g51dwY0wuak

This kind of shit is going to cost us the election if the DNC decides to rig their election and force Biden into the nomination like they did hillary.

A vote for biden, is a vote for trump.
Actually, when you throw your vote away when Bernie isnít the nominee, thatís the vote for Trump.
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