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  #51  
Old 12-04-2019, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
You could look at it both way, I suppose. The exchange led to her highest polling but her follow up was lame and ended up putting her in a bad light.

But what you're saying is far more reasonable, imho. The exchange led to a bump and then she just faded back and never made another move again.
FWIW in the days that followed:
Quote:
As the dust settles I am thinking she will drop back again pretty fast. Answering my own op she has pretty much doomed herself for a general with the very debate move that got her the bump in the polls.
And
Quote:
... What she is doing is not that serious approach and it is not something she has ever prioritized before. It is disingenuous posturing that will over time backfire on her badly, unless she fades otherwise before it can.

Not everything candidates trot out is insincere or put out for political purposes only. Some things however are and some candidates end up giving more of an impression of soullessness opportunism than others....
Lastly ...
Quote:
... What is true is that the media narrative in the immediate aftermath was focused on the positive of this interaction for her. I am positing that a blowback is beginning and will gain steam. To some degree the more successful the play was the more inevitable the blowback was to be. The scrappy underdog gets the good storyline. Move up the ranks and you evolve out of that role and become a target instead. And how that is handled informs.

Iím thinking Warren outlasts her as the main Biden alternative. ...
Jus' sayin'

Seriously though - her play on Biden got her attention but it wasn't playing to her brand's strength, and was more using racial justice cynically than actually caring about it, which over the next week or so came through. And she had no plan to follow up on having grabbed the attention.
  #52  
Old 12-04-2019, 12:20 AM
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If we want to limit it to primary contests, here's a few I can think of.

...Gary Hart 1998....
1988.
  #53  
Old 12-04-2019, 12:22 AM
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Apparently trump tweeted: "Too Bad, we will miss you Kamela!" To which she replied :"Don't worry Mr. President, I will see you at your trial".

Nice shot there!
  #54  
Old 12-04-2019, 01:18 AM
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That's part of the appeal she had. She fights and she's a natural prosecutor. But it's just not enough to be President.
  #55  
Old 12-04-2019, 01:51 AM
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How was Harris more disappointing than JEB! ?
Because HurricaneDitka is a conservative. Therefore, the tears are sweeter when a liberal candidate fails.

I like Harris. I can actually see her as a VP candidate if Mayor Pete were to get the nomination. She's got experience, she could help shore up his support among the African American community, and she may appeal to some women voters who may be a little disheartened by the number of old, white men in the race.
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  #56  
Old 12-04-2019, 02:02 AM
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IMO the most disappointing candidate ever was John Kerry in 2000. The Republicans slung all that swift boat shit at him and he did little or nothing to refute it, to jump all over it and point out that Bush was a draft dodger, etc. Kind of the SOP for Democrats, unfortunately.
Nitpick: Kerry was 2004.
  #57  
Old 12-04-2019, 04:06 AM
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And now a lot of Democrats on social media are freaking out over the fact the 6 candidates who will be at the debate are white. Ummmmm, if we're actually listening to minority voters, then the nominee should be Joe Biden in a landslide.
  #58  
Old 12-04-2019, 04:55 AM
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If we listen to only minority voters, perhaps. I don't think Biden wins the nomination, but I think that Harris gets serious consideration as a VP pick
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  #59  
Old 12-04-2019, 05:03 AM
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I would be astonished if more than 25% of America's population even knows what busing is.
Yea. I bet folks these days just use their own car or Uber... never public transportation.




What?

Last edited by I Love Me, Vol. I; 12-04-2019 at 05:03 AM.
  #60  
Old 12-04-2019, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
FWIW in the days that followed:AndLastly ...Jus' sayin'

Seriously though - her play on Biden got her attention but it wasn't playing to her brand's strength, and was more using racial justice cynically than actually caring about it, which over the next week or so came through. And she had no plan to follow up on having grabbed the attention.
Yes, I understand that is the narrative. But if you look at her polling, it's been two bumps and steady decline. Candidates rarely maintain a post debate bump anyways, no need for fancy explanations why this one didn't hold.

Last edited by CarnalK; 12-04-2019 at 08:04 AM.
  #61  
Old 12-04-2019, 02:32 PM
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Because HurricaneDitka is a conservative. Therefore, the tears are sweeter when a liberal candidate fails.

I like Harris. I can actually see her as a VP candidate if Mayor Pete were to get the nomination. She's got experience, she could help shore up his support among the African American community, and she may appeal to some women voters who may be a little disheartened by the number of old, white men in the race.
All the leftist women voters i know would rather vote for anyone else than the last young non-white woman left in the race. Because (Puts on reading glasses) "CNN said she's evil."
  #62  
Old 12-04-2019, 02:57 PM
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Yea. I bet folks these days just use their own car or Uber... never public transportation.




What?
Was this meant to be snark? If not, the issue of busing was a plan to reduce segregation in public schools. It hasnít been a national issue since the 1970s. Except for the debate, the only times Iíve heard about bussing since history class is when watching old 1970s sitcoms
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  #63  
Old 12-04-2019, 02:58 PM
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All the leftist women voters i know would rather vote for anyone else than the last young non-white woman left in the race. Because (Puts on reading glasses) "CNN said she's evil."
Thereís plenty of reasons not to vote for Tulsi, not just CNN commentary.
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  #64  
Old 12-04-2019, 10:09 PM
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Here's CNN on lingering societal questions about Harris's run: https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/04/polit...ory/index.html
  #65  
Old 12-04-2019, 11:52 PM
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Was this meant to be snark? If not, the issue of busing was a plan to reduce segregation in public schools. It hasnít been a national issue since the 1970s. Except for the debate, the only times Iíve heard about bussing since history class is when watching old 1970s sitcoms
No, I think he understood my point, which you would agree with - busing is ancient history and not something that most people know or care about as debate fodder.
  #66  
Old 12-05-2019, 12:52 AM
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If we listen to only minority voters, perhaps. I don't think Biden wins the nomination, but I think that Harris gets serious consideration as a VP pick
Given her background, Attorney General might be a better fit.
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  #67  
Old 12-05-2019, 02:03 AM
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As a writer at 538 said, the scouts just got it wrong about her. She just wasn't that good:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...mpaign-failed/

He makes the same point about Rubio. IMO, there's an element of modern day racism in all this. You don't see white candidates get hyped this way. Every young minority is a potential superstar but as with white people, most are actually just mediocre politicians. And they end up getting exposed before they are ready for prime time because they got talked by the media into running too soon. Which in the long run makes it impossible to get a minority President unless they have Barack Obama talents. They can't all be Barack Obama. Most are just... Marco Rubio.

Last edited by adaher; 12-05-2019 at 02:04 AM.
  #68  
Old 12-05-2019, 12:23 PM
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I wouldn't call it racism so much as marketing errors.
  #69  
Old 12-05-2019, 01:38 PM
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He makes the same point about Rubio. IMO, there's an element of modern day racism in all this. You don't see white candidates get hyped this way. Every young minority is a potential superstar but as with white people, most are actually just mediocre politicians. And they end up getting exposed before they are ready for prime time because they got talked by the media into running too soon. Which in the long run makes it impossible to get a minority President unless they have Barack Obama talents. They can't all be Barack Obama. Most are just... Marco Rubio.
I'm glad you brought up Rubio. You were absolutely in love with that guy and there's no way in the world that Kamala Harris disappointed you more than Marco Rubio did.

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If it's Rubio, I predict he'll own a 60% rating around the time of the convention. This isn't a crazy prediction.
Hilariously crazy prediction.
  #70  
Old 12-06-2019, 12:37 AM
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Now Biden's saying nice things about her - but then, he can afford to: https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/04/polit...ick/index.html
  #71  
Old 12-06-2019, 04:11 AM
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I'm glad you brought up Rubio. You were absolutely in love with that guy and there's no way in the world that Kamala Harris disappointed you more than Marco Rubio did.
Rubio has potential, just like Harris. He ran too soon and disappointed. I was interested in Harris too. Until I started following her on Twitter, and then my reaction was "Oh my goodness this is one shallow person."

Last edited by adaher; 12-06-2019 at 04:12 AM.
  #72  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:02 AM
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I can't get why she was an actual candidate. She has great policies, good on gun control, but flip-flopped on that, IMO.

I still think if the goal is to beat the Orange Crowd, then a woman can't be the candidate in this election. Kamala would make a great cabinet member after this election and help move forward women in politics. But I just don't think she can start at the top. And no, I don't think she's qualified in foreign policy to swing it. I'll vote for her again in CA. She's fantastic, just not the woman that can beat the GOP.
How is she a great cabinet member, aside from her genitalia?

She is not particularly wonky about stuff (her sister Maya is way wonkier than her).
  #73  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:05 AM
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Hell, there's 16 candidates still, and all but five or six of them are toast. (Can we at least get Delaney and Bennet to drop out? Talk about guys who won't take "nobody's paying the least bit of attention to you" for an answer.)

Glad you mentioned Rudy, because I think Rudy 911 may have been the most disappointing candidate ever. Looked formidable heading into the 2008 cycle - universal name recognition, good approval ratings, raised plenty of money IIRC - but the voters weren't interested in him, so he skipped Iowa, then skipped NH, etc. Ultimately didn't skip Florida, crashed and burned there, and that was the end for his Presidential aspirations.

Whatever other criticisms I may have of Joe Biden, I'll always think well of him for doing his part to kill Rudy's candidacy with his "a noun, a verb, and 9/11" line.
I had high hopes for Rudy Guiliani. He went from being a fairly liberal Rockerfeller Republican to a nucking futz Republican on the national stage.
  #74  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:19 PM
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For Rudy, I think that 2008 was just too long and people had 9/11 fatigue by then. Endless wars in the Middle East had replaced rally around the flag. And IA Republicans are very evangelical so that wasn’t going to be his strong spot.

Rubio still has the problem of looking like a high school kid wearing his father’s suit for a presentation. He’s the furtherest thing from a policy wonk and trying to appeal to the young by constantly mentioning Uber and Air BNB isn’t going to work in a Republican primary dominated by older voters. But he’s also awful with the fire and brimstone evangelical stuff and was exposed as the Marco bot with canned lines about Obama. He’s probably got that senate seat for a while since his next election would be in 2022. I think he’s done with national politics unless he gets a lot of help.
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  #75  
Old 12-06-2019, 02:01 PM
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How is she a great cabinet member, aside from her genitalia?

She is not particularly wonky about stuff (her sister Maya is way wonkier than her).
Haven't you posted this about all women democratic politicians? If you search here for "Her genitalia" you will get a dozen hits for you. What's up with the vagina shaming?
  #76  
Old 12-06-2019, 03:41 PM
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I had high hopes for Rudy Guiliani. He went from being a fairly liberal Rockerfeller Republican to a nucking futz Republican on the national stage.
That's because any Gops who aren't now "nucking futz" are RINOs or traitors to the activist base that determines political survival. Faux Nuuz is their national stage within a circus tent, a stage complete with hooks, trapdoors, trapezes, red clown cars, dancing vampire elephants, and enough snarky female flesh to stock a Tramp beauty pageant, but more vicious. Rockefeller now would be a Socialist on Faux. Look at his gun law!

Most pathetic candidate? The worst I recall was Goldwater, whom I supported. But I was oh so young then.
  #77  
Old 12-06-2019, 05:39 PM
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That's because any Gops who aren't now "nucking futz" are RINOs or traitors to the activist base that determines political survival. Faux Nuuz is their national stage within a circus tent, a stage complete with hooks, trapdoors, trapezes, red clown cars, dancing vampire elephants, and enough snarky female flesh to stock a Tramp beauty pageant, but more vicious. Rockefeller now would be a Socialist on Faux. Look at his gun law!

Most pathetic candidate? The worst I recall was Goldwater, whom I supported. But I was oh so young then.
Goldwater won the 1964 nomination. He’s no more pathetic than McGovern or Mondale, they all got crushed but won the nomination. I’m sticking only to 1960-2016 for my sample.
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Last edited by dalej42; 12-06-2019 at 05:40 PM.
  #78  
Old 12-06-2019, 07:10 PM
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Giuliani wasn't a disappointment because everyone knew he was way out of step with his party ideologically before the race even got started. His early polling leads were strictly reputation and name recognition. Now that's not to say he could have done a lot better than he did. But it was always going to be an uphill climb for him.
  #79  
Old 12-08-2019, 05:39 PM
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I would be astonished if more than 25% of America's population even knows what busing is.
Exactly.

It was a stupid, foolish move.

No, she was never going to win the nomination.

Kamala Harris is AG material, not presidential material.
  #80  
Old 12-08-2019, 05:41 PM
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Also, the "Kamala is a cop" crap did not damage her campaign.

Prosecutors are supposed to prosecute.

What derailed her was her having no messaege
  #81  
Old 12-09-2019, 11:21 PM
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Also, the "Kamala is a cop" crap did not damage her campaign.

Prosecutors are supposed to prosecute.

What derailed her was her having no messaege
There's prosecuting and then there's doing this.
  #82  
Old 12-10-2019, 01:26 AM
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There's prosecuting and then there's doing this.
She was never in favor of justice, just whatever made her look good.
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