Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #751  
Old 01-25-2018, 12:27 PM
SamuelA is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
Yes, kill all the vanilla loving heathens.


Have you met people? People can't quantify their own likes and desires. If you asked someone to make a list of their favorite foods, it would be different on a tuesday vs a saturday.
That's because people are imprecise. There's no output ports. Our neural networks have weights but they are inconsistent and float as different neurons temporarily glitch or run out of ATP or give the wrong output from noise.

But average weights do exist, we just can't measure them with present day methods.
  #752  
Old 01-25-2018, 01:06 PM
Telemark's Avatar
Telemark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Just outside of Titletown
Posts: 23,489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
Hilarious. Do you not understand how to ignore someone?
Yeah, it's rather mystifying. Clearly Sam is still having trouble groking the whole Ignore concept.
  #753  
Old 01-25-2018, 01:16 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm is offline
Champion Chili Chef
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 63,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
That's because people are imprecise. There's no output ports.
I can think of at least one.
  #754  
Old 01-25-2018, 01:19 PM
andros is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Dejagore
Posts: 10,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
That's because people are imprecise. There's no output ports.
These are two wildly different things. There are "output ports." I'm using one right now. (Two, actually, since I'm speaking to someone as I type.)

I guess what you mean to say is that there are no perfectly precise output methods...which itself is a quite data-rich statement, in that it begs a number of questions out of proportion to its brevity.
.

Last edited by andros; 01-25-2018 at 01:21 PM.
  #755  
Old 01-25-2018, 01:22 PM
andros is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Dejagore
Posts: 10,568
Also, would you mind sharing a link to your ongoing discussions at LessWrong/LesserWrong? And your SN there?
  #756  
Old 01-25-2018, 01:43 PM
Morgenstern is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 11,866
You know what. Sam deserves credit for trying so hard. If he ever gets this shit right, then applies this same tenacity to what he's doing, he'll go far.
You just have to get the shit right first Sam.
  #757  
Old 01-25-2018, 02:02 PM
Chimera is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Dreaming
Posts: 24,689
Ignore me!
  #758  
Old 01-25-2018, 02:05 PM
Sunny Daze's Avatar
Sunny Daze is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Bay Area Urban Sprawl
Posts: 13,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
Hilarious. Do you not understand how to ignore someone?
I see you missed his awesome description of his ignore procedure. He "ignores" people, but he doesn't actually ignore them. He wants to read what they say and decide whether to respond to it. He keeps a list of people he's ignored. I honestly can't remember if this part is us or he stated it, but the going theory is that it is on post-its by his computer. JohnT holds the current record for being triple-ignored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgenstern View Post
You know what. Sam deserves credit for trying so hard. If he ever gets this shit right, then applies this same tenacity to what he's doing, he'll go far.
You just have to get the shit right first Sam.
I will say this. Setting aside his poorly timed cancer comment, he shows the occasional glimmer of humor. He really needs to work on the arrogant, self-righteous asshole schtick though.
  #759  
Old 01-25-2018, 02:36 PM
wolfpup's Avatar
wolfpup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 11,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
You are massively mis-characterizing what I wrote.
What I said was that you're a fucking racist, and apparently not bright enough to possess the self-awareness to even realize it. We can look at the pertinent quotes from the cited immigration thread:
Post #73:
The immigrants who our ancestors let in were not just anyone.

I won't try to claim any particular racial or cultural group is better or worse, so I'm not branded a racist, but immigration policy in the past was selective, and America is highly successful.
Note the first occurrence of the classic red-flag "I am not a racist". Looking at the substance of this complete bullshit, the first statement is ignorantly flat-out wrong, since there were no meaningful limitations on immigration before the immigration acts of 1921 and 1924. So in fact "our ancestors" literally did let in "just anyone", although that (fortunately for white supremacists everywhere) turned out to be mostly white northern Europeans.

And both before and after that -- and to this very day -- immigration policy continues to have heavily racist tones. Before the major immigration overhaul of 1924, there was the Chinese Exclusion Act in 1882, the 1907 agreement with Japan to prevent Japanese immigration, and the 1923 Supreme Court ruling classifying South Asians as non-white, allowing them to be stripped of their citizenship retroactively. The Immigration Act of 1924 was partly a response to the likes of the Asiatic Exclusion League which coined phrases like "turban tide", "Hindoo invasion", and "yellow peril"; it implemented for the first time a "national origins" formula and restricted the immigration of Southern Europeans and Eastern Europeans, especially Italians, Slavs and Eastern European Jews, severely restricted the immigration of Africans, and banned the immigration of Arabs and Asians altogether.

This is what our SamuelA regards as laudable "selective" immigration policy that made America successful: blatant racial and ethnic discrimination. I'm not "mischaracterizing" what the fucking racist wrote, I'm quoting it directly.

But it gets even better ...
Post #75
... most of the world's population pre-1920 was too poor to come to America or there weren't significant amounts of shipping running that way. Hence it was mostly just Europeans.

I am not going to claim that Europeans are better or worse than anyone else
...
No, of course you're not, Sammy. Here we have the "I am not a racist" meme again. See, it's not that white northern Europeans are better than everyone else, it's just that white northern Europeans were the only ones able to come here, and things turned out real good, that's all. Nothing more. One can almost imagine SamuelA putting on a white robe at this point and setting fire to a cross to emphasize the point, and that he's not a racist.

But what would happen if the immigration mix changed, and it was not just white northern Europeans coming to America? Ah, SamuelA has that figured out, too, the way he has everything else figured out, like how our brains work. It comes in the continuation of Post #75:
... the rational outcome would be a massive cultural change, with the new cultural being mainly weighted towards the culture of origin of the immigrants.

And if that culture is a "failure" creating a "shithole" : what do you reasonably think would happen.
It's clear what would happen if we let people in from shithole countries: the whole place would turn into a shithole.

So what we have here is not just an ignorant racist, but a racist of Trumpian proportions.

I responded to that last comment, with considerable restraint, in this post. Here, BTW, are some shitholian residents from a shithole country who are probably leaving voluntarily, but no doubt SamuelA will make sure they're kicked out before the place becomes a shithole.
  #760  
Old 01-25-2018, 02:36 PM
k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
That's because people are imprecise. There's no output ports. Our neural networks have weights but they are inconsistent and float as different neurons temporarily glitch or run out of ATP or give the wrong output from noise.

But average weights do exist, we just can't measure them with present day methods.
People also change their mind and their preferences over time, based on new experiences, knowledge or just whims.

And you still have not addressed how a model can deal with people with conflicting goals.

For instance, if I think that vanilla is the best, but vanilla production interferes with chocolate production. Say you can produce 3 units of vanilla, 3 units of chocolate, or 1 of each.

How do you maximize your chocolate production, without conflicting with the vanilla lover's maximizing of theirs?
  #761  
Old 01-25-2018, 02:56 PM
crowmanyclouds's Avatar
crowmanyclouds is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ... hiding in my room ...
Posts: 4,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
What I said was that you're a fucking racist, and apparently not bright enough to possess the self-awareness to even realize it. We can look at the pertinent quotes from the cited immigration thread:
Post #73:
The immigrants who our ancestors let in were not just anyone.

I won't try to claim any particular racial or cultural group is better or worse, so I'm not branded a racist, but immigration policy in the past was selective, and America is highly successful.
Note the first occurrence of the classic red-flag "I am not a racist". {...}
Not saying something racist so no one can brand you as a racist isn't classic red-flag "I am not a racist" it's classic red-flag "I am a racist, but I'm going to try to maintain plausible deniability".

CMC fnord!
  #762  
Old 01-25-2018, 03:17 PM
SamuelA is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
What I said was that you're a fucking racist, and apparently not bright enough to possess the self-awareness to even realize it. We can look at the pertinent quotes from the cited immigration thread:
Post #73:
The immigrants who our ancestors let in were not just anyone.

I won't try to claim any particular racial or cultural group is better or worse, so I'm not branded a racist, but immigration policy in the past was selective, and America is highly successful.
Note the first occurrence of the classic red-flag "I am not a racist". Looking at the substance of this complete bullshit, the first statement is ignorantly flat-out wrong, since there were no meaningful limitations on immigration before the immigration acts of 1921 and 1924. So in fact "our ancestors" literally did let in "just anyone", although that (fortunately for white supremacists everywhere) turned out to be mostly white northern Europeans.

This is what our SamuelA regards as laudable "selective" immigration policy that made America successful: blatant racial and ethnic discrimination. I'm not "mischaracterizing" what the fucking racist wrote, I'm quoting it directly.

But it gets even better ...
Post #75
... most of the world's population pre-1920 was too poor to come to America or there weren't significant amounts of shipping running that way. Hence it was mostly just Europeans.

I am not going to claim that Europeans are better or worse than anyone else
...
But what would happen if the immigration mix changed, and it was not just white northern Europeans coming to America? Ah, SamuelA has that figured out, too, the way he has everything else figured out, like how our brains work. It comes in the continuation of Post #75:
... the rational outcome would be a massive cultural change, with the new cultural being mainly weighted towards the culture of origin of the immigrants.

And if that culture is a "failure" creating a "shithole" : what do you reasonably think would happen.
It's clear what would happen if we let people in from shithole countries: the whole place would turn into a shithole.

So what we have here is not just an ignorant racist, but a racist of Trumpian proportions.

I responded to that last comment, with considerable restraint, in this post. Here, BTW, are some shitholian residents from a shithole country who are probably leaving voluntarily, but no doubt SamuelA will make sure they're kicked out before the place becomes a shithole.
First of all, you can claim that "anyone who says they are not a racist is a racist". But you have to deliver.

The rest of your post is utter bullshit. You haven't proven or even shown I'm a racist or advocating racist policies in any way.

What I have said is : "while pre-1920 policies were not explicitly racist, geography and economics made them highly selective".

Something you agree with.

What I have said is "while I will not claim any specific racial group is better or worse, it is complete ignorance to say that "anyone can come in any numbers" is the same policy today as it was then."

Because while the law pre-1920 wasn't restricted, geography and economics meant that it was highly limited.

Today's geography and economics are different. So you'd be an utter moron to say the same policy would work with the same results.

Also in your selective, hateful arguing, you somehow forgot my post in the thread where I pointed out that if we are going to be arguing racial superiority, the evidence slightly favors Asians over everyone else. If I was a closeted KKK member like you claim, better hope the boss doesn't hear about my opinion there...

Finally, you neglected to notice that the actual thing I advocate for..in several posts after you "forgot" to keep reading...is a machine learning model and individual by individual selectiveness, where we pick the best individuals, ranked in order and going to whatever quota we set.

So Harvard students, even from a shithole* like Iran, are going to meet the criteria for any reasonable mathematical model you come up with.

*I mean this is basically official Federal government opinion, like it or not. I am aware that Iran is more western in some ways than official "allies'" of the USA, but officially Iran is an enemy nation.
  #763  
Old 01-25-2018, 03:18 PM
SamuelA is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by crowmanyclouds View Post
Not saying something racist so no one can brand you as a racist isn't classic red-flag "I am not a racist" it's classic red-flag "I am a racist, but I'm going to try to maintain plausible deniability".

CMC fnord!
Yeah you're just lazy.
  #764  
Old 01-25-2018, 03:43 PM
SamuelA is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,903
Oh, and anyone who points out that the geography hasn't changed since 1920 : fuck you. I meant to say the travel restrictions created by geography don't mean what they did since we have airliners.

Last edited by SamuelA; 01-25-2018 at 03:43 PM.
  #765  
Old 01-25-2018, 03:46 PM
crowmanyclouds's Avatar
crowmanyclouds is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ... hiding in my room ...
Posts: 4,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
Yeah you're just lazy.
Well . . . you're glue . . . so there!

I'll take non-sequiturs for 500 Alex?!

CMC fnord!
  #766  
Old 01-25-2018, 03:49 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm is offline
Champion Chili Chef
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 63,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
Oh, and anyone who points out that the geography hasn't changed since 1920 : fuck you. I meant to say the travel restrictions created by geography don't mean what they did since we have airliners.
Yeah you're just lazy.
  #767  
Old 01-25-2018, 04:02 PM
SamuelA is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by crowmanyclouds View Post
Well . . . you're glue . . . so there!

I'll take non-sequiturs for 500 Alex?!

CMC fnord!
Now you're lazy and stupid. Obviously I was saying that simply taking that idiot wolfpup at his word instead of reading my actual fucking posts makes you lazy. Now I've concluded you're stupid. Only a moron would consider it a non-sequitur.
  #768  
Old 01-25-2018, 04:14 PM
TroutMan's Avatar
TroutMan is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,155
Sammy, I read your posts in the other thread and they are clearly racist. This is not wolfpup reading things into them that isn't there. It's you showing a complete lack of self-awareness.
  #769  
Old 01-25-2018, 04:37 PM
crowmanyclouds's Avatar
crowmanyclouds is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ... hiding in my room ...
Posts: 4,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutMan View Post
Sammy, I read your posts in the other thread and they are clearly racist. This is not wolfpup reading things into them that isn't there. It's you showing a complete lack of self-awareness.
Yeah, my reading had nothing to do with anything wolfpup said, I just used that post to post something I, and I'll assume you, was already thinking.
(Strangely I rarely post things that aren't, or aren't at least inspired by, responses to other posts.)

But, "I'm not going to say 'something racist' so no one can claim I am a, and what I said is, racist" does suggest some self-awareness. Maybe SamuelA is up to taking that Turing test after all!

CMC fnord!
BTW Am I any closer to getting ignored by you SamuelA?
  #770  
Old 01-25-2018, 04:55 PM
wolfpup's Avatar
wolfpup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 11,342
I have a hypothesis about SamuelA that seems to be well supported by the evidence. First of all I'd like the reader to review the remarkable character of some recent quotes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
Once every sentient being is an AI or a human converted to a computer and has sufficient processing power, we will all have ... blah blah blah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
As smarter beings begin to replace humans - whether that be AIs, cyborgs, genetically engineered humans, ... blah blah blah.

... Smarter beings will also have vastly more memory capacity and ability to share data with each other digitally.

... If you encountered another being with a different opinion, you could just plug your serial ports together or whatever and swap memory files.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
... Similarly, if you think of preferences as weights between 0 and 1, it's clearly possible for someone with a different set of preference weights to look at your preference matrix and give you advice that would be verifiably correct as to how to maximize your preferences, even if they do not share them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
That's because people are imprecise. There's no output ports. Our neural networks have weights but they are inconsistent and float as different neurons temporarily glitch or run out of ATP or give the wrong output from noise.
Now here's the hypothesis. We have someone -- or some thing -- which:
  • Throughout this thread and others has consistently presented a weak, low caliber of argument,
  • Appears to suffer from a spectacular lack of real-world knowledge or any in-depth subject matter expertise,
  • Consistently engages is repetitive, robotic technobabble such as the above, as if driven by a limited, experimental knowledge base created by someone obsessed with AI,
  • Is completely lacking in self-awareness,
  • Is remarkably tenacious.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking? I think SamuelA might be a low-grade AI created by a high school student as a science project, and unleashed on the Internet for shits and giggles. I'm kind of suspicious that it could easily be an acronym for Simple Algorithm for Machine Understanding of English Language Arguments. If so, the joke is on us.
  #771  
Old 01-25-2018, 05:07 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm is offline
Champion Chili Chef
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 63,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
Are you thinking what I'm thinking? I think SamuelA might be a low-grade AI created by a high school student as a science project, and unleashed on the Internet for shits and giggles. I'm kind of suspicious that it could easily be an acronym for Simple Algorithm for Machine Understanding of English Language Arguments. If so, the joke is on us.
That's kind of long.
Can we just call him "Simple" for short?
  #772  
Old 01-25-2018, 05:18 PM
crowmanyclouds's Avatar
crowmanyclouds is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ... hiding in my room ...
Posts: 4,845
I'm going with a low-grade AI accidentally infected with a zombie virus that's planning for "Judgement Day", hence the desire for a stockpile of frozen brains!

CMC fnord!
__________________
It has come to my attention that people are stupid.
We, the smart ones, should be coming up with plans for how to remedy this, but we're all too busy watching Battlestar Galactica. — wierdaaron
  #773  
Old 01-25-2018, 05:26 PM
Sunny Daze's Avatar
Sunny Daze is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Bay Area Urban Sprawl
Posts: 13,365
Works for me. Simple Sam as the long version.

While we're poking holes in his understanding of immigration history, I'll take this one:

Quote:
Post #73:
The immigrants who our ancestors let in were not just anyone.

I won't try to claim any particular racial or cultural group is better or worse, so I'm not branded a racist, but immigration policy in the past was selective, and America is highly successful.
The US did let in pretty much anyone who could get on a boat and get here. People came for all kinds of reasons, and many, many of them were undocumented. The first federal immigration law wasn't until 1882. Prior to the opening of Ellis Island in 1892, individual states managed immigration as they saw fit. Untold thousands of people arrived at port, got off, and start walking. Some recorded, many not. (We could also talk about indentured servitude, and slavery, but I'll save that for another lecture.) The point is, not that you're paying attention Sammy, that our country, and others throughout history, has prospered because we welcomed others without the level of selection that you seem to think we applied, and have done so throughout most of our history.

Last edited by Sunny Daze; 01-25-2018 at 05:27 PM.
  #774  
Old 01-26-2018, 01:15 PM
SamuelA is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
Works for me. Simple Sam as the long version.

While we're poking holes in his understanding of immigration history, I'll take this one:

The US did let in pretty much anyone who could get on a boat and get here. People came for all kinds of reasons, and many, many of them were undocumented. The first federal immigration law wasn't until 1882. Prior to the opening of Ellis Island in 1892, individual states managed immigration as they saw fit. Untold thousands of people arrived at port, got off, and start walking. Some recorded, many not. (We could also talk about indentured servitude, and slavery, but I'll save that for another lecture.) The point is, not that you're paying attention Sammy, that our country, and others throughout history, has prospered because we welcomed others without the level of selection that you seem to think we applied, and have done so throughout most of our history.
The actual data says you are completely full of it.

Read it. Your theory is wrong. Obviously the selectiveness was not from outright laws, but other factors, this does not change the fact that immigration was highly selective.
  #775  
Old 01-26-2018, 01:27 PM
JohnT's Avatar
JohnT is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 24,276
His "actual data" is what others call "Wikipedia". Look out, it's a trap!
  #776  
Old 01-26-2018, 01:33 PM
TroutMan's Avatar
TroutMan is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
The actual data says you are completely full of it.

Read it. Your theory is wrong. Obviously the selectiveness was not from outright laws, but other factors, this does not change the fact that immigration was highly selective.
Please enlighten us as to what we are supposed to derive from the data you linked, that proves immigration was highly selective. I assume you are trying to highlight that it was predominantly white people, to further the racist arguments you made in the other thread.

But I'll let you explain it. Come on, make your argument. Don't link to tables of demographics as if it proves some point. State your hypothesis clearly, and explain why those demographics prove it.
  #777  
Old 01-26-2018, 02:52 PM
SamuelA is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutMan View Post
Please enlighten us as to what we are supposed to derive from the data you linked, that proves immigration was highly selective. I assume you are trying to highlight that it was predominantly white people, to further the racist arguments you made in the other thread.

But I'll let you explain it. Come on, make your argument. Don't link to tables of demographics as if it proves some point. State your hypothesis clearly, and explain why those demographics prove it.
It's 84% white people and the second group is black people, who were not voluntary immigrants. That makes it highly selective. Essentially if you remove blacks from consideration, since they didn't have a choice, it means that voluntary immigration was more than 98% white people.

You tell me : what percentage of world population were they in these eras?

Being able to recognize reality doesn't make someone racist. My point was that whether or not you think immigration was limited, it obviously was in reality. Why didn't the residents of Japan, India, China, Spain, Mexico, South America, and Africa come to America voluntarily when the borders were open?

I don't know the answer. I can only guess, or someone here can go look up the facts instead of calling me a racist.

It could well have just been open racism, but not written into Federal law.

Last edited by SamuelA; 01-26-2018 at 02:55 PM.
  #778  
Old 01-26-2018, 02:58 PM
SamuelA is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,903
And my point was that even if you start with the hypothesis that "no race or culture is better or worse than any other", which is obvious bullshit (clearly cultures that value knowledge and technology are better for modern purposes than ones who don't), you can see that America was not founded from a melting pot of all races and cultures. It was all white people from Europe except for the people they brought in chains.

That is actual physical reality backed by overwhelming evidence.

Anyone who denies this is worse than a racist. I'd say it makes them a denier of objective reality and they should be put into a straitjacket for their own protection.

Last edited by SamuelA; 01-26-2018 at 02:58 PM.
  #779  
Old 01-26-2018, 03:13 PM
zoid's Avatar
zoid is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Chicago Il
Posts: 10,436
Nice. So now you're an admitted racist. Real nice.
  #780  
Old 01-26-2018, 03:46 PM
wolfpup's Avatar
wolfpup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 11,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
And my point was that even if you start with the hypothesis that "no race or culture is better or worse than any other", which is obvious bullshit (clearly cultures that value knowledge and technology are better for modern purposes than ones who don't), ...
Rascists just gotta be racists, they can't help it, and they're oblivious to it. At this point he's not even bothering with the "I'm not a racist" preamble, he just launches right into it.

Notice how (a) one can dismiss a thousand years of social, historical, and cultural values of a people, and simply place objective valuations on the merits of "culture" as arbitrarily defined by the racist bigot (technology! self-replicating nanobots!), and (b) notice how one can judge individuals from those societies (some of which are shitholes, to use our resident racist bigot's favorite term) on the basis of the alleged characteristics of the larger group, which is the dictionary definition of "bigot". Thus, it's a given with SamuelA that the immigrant from a shithole country will bring ignorance and shitholism with him, just as surely as the Negro will rob you in the back alley. This is not racism, you understand, it's a fact. SamuelA deals only with facts, because of the inscrutable brilliance of his giant throbbing brain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
... you can see that America was not founded from a melting pot of all races and cultures. It was all white people from Europe except for the people they brought in chains.
Notice how this fits with our resident racist bigot's previous statements, as I already described in post #759! He claimed that America historically admitted "not just anyone", oh no, "immigration policy in the past was selective". And as I described, the circumstances of trade and travel were such that, except for slaves, this immigration was almost 100% white. This does not constitute a "policy", so our resident bigot is also ignorant, and when indeed policies were implemented in the years after 1920, they were overwhelming and overtly racist in favor of white northern Europeans. Our resident bigot highly approves of these policies, because it was the direct result of all this whiteness from the right countries that "America is highly successful." Those are all direct quotes and exactly convey the sentiments of the fucking racist bigot SamuelA, which can all be found for posterity in the original thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoid View Post
Nice. So now you're an admitted racist. Real nice.
As I said, he's not even bothering to deny it any more. The thing about racists is that they're not very smart, so it's fun watching them dig themselves in ever deeper, covered in their own ignorance and myopia like pigs in shit.

Last edited by wolfpup; 01-26-2018 at 03:48 PM.
  #781  
Old 01-26-2018, 03:56 PM
k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
As I said, he's not even bothering to deny it any more. The thing about racists is that they're not very smart, so it's fun watching them dig themselves in ever deeper, covered in their own ignorance and myopia like pigs in shit.
To be fair, it is racism out of ignorance, not out of hate.

Of course, it is quickly becoming racism out of willful ignorance, which is a kissing cousin to racism out of fear of the "other", and that 'lil guy takes a very direct path to hatred and contempt.
  #782  
Old 01-26-2018, 03:58 PM
TroutMan's Avatar
TroutMan is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
It's 84% white people and the second group is black people, who were not voluntary immigrants. That makes it highly selective...

Why didn't the residents of Japan, India, China, Spain, Mexico, South America, and Africa come to America voluntarily when the borders were open?

I don't know the answer...
You seriously can't think of a reason why Africans didn't come to America voluntarily?

The U.S. let in whoever wanted to come in. It was not selective. That certain people chose not to come in does not mean that U.S. immigration law was selective.

This discussion started because people like you are trying to justify keeping people from "shithole countries" out of the U.S. by arguing it's all about economics and culture. We were successful when we let in Europeans, right? This ignores that back then, people in the U.S. considered Ireland and others shitholes too. So what makes those shitholes OK, and not others? I can't think of any reason you'd think that, unless you think some races are better than others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
And my point was that even if you start with the hypothesis that "no race or culture is better or worse than any other", which is obvious bullshit...
Oh. Never mind.
  #783  
Old 01-26-2018, 04:00 PM
Dewey Finn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 29,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
clearly cultures that value knowledge and technology are better for modern purposes than ones who don't
So which cultures don't value knowledge and technology?
  #784  
Old 01-26-2018, 04:07 PM
JohnT's Avatar
JohnT is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 24,276
[Simple Sam]The ones from shithole countries! Duh![/Simple Sam]
  #785  
Old 01-26-2018, 04:07 PM
k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
So which cultures don't value knowledge and technology?
The Amish.

Don't let anyone in from that country.
  #786  
Old 01-26-2018, 04:12 PM
Dewey Finn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 29,847
Thanks, but I want to hear which cultures SamuelA would include.
  #787  
Old 01-26-2018, 04:12 PM
SamuelA is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
So which cultures don't value knowledge and technology?
Well, for one, China didn't until really recently. They were first in everything, and managed to throw all their advantages away and got their ass handed to them when they encountered cultures post industrial revolution.

Obviously their modern culture has been completely reformed and they've now got their shit together for the most part and have been slowly pulling ahead due to all their advantages.

But they had those same advantages (a very large contiguous territory with vast natural resources, a very large population, writing, an organized civilization) for thousands of years. They just couldn't do shit with them.

So yeah. If the year was 1920, when China did not have it's modern culture, and the proposal was to actively import 1 person from China for every citizen of the USA that was currently a citizen, it would have been a disaster.

The reason being culture - the much smaller number of people from China, etc we have allowed in through level immigration are one of the most successful subgroups in the population. Because they have adapted our culture.

So fuck you all who call me racists.

Last edited by SamuelA; 01-26-2018 at 04:15 PM.
  #788  
Old 01-26-2018, 04:17 PM
JohnT's Avatar
JohnT is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 24,276
None of us think you're plural, SamA.
  #789  
Old 01-26-2018, 04:18 PM
SamuelA is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,903
The reason being culture - the much smaller number of people from China, etc we have allowed in through legal immigration are one of the most successful subgroups in the population. Because they have adapted our culture. And the actual racial differences seem to favor Asians in the modern world, assuming they are real and not just observation bias. (it seems like asians are better at school and more patient and willing to defer gratification and less prone to commit crimes, but I can't disentangle culture from fundamental genetic differences)

So fuck you all who call me racist. If anything, the "best" race for today's world is not even my own, and I freely admit I don't even know if they are better or it's just their parents having a better culture.

Last edited by SamuelA; 01-26-2018 at 04:19 PM.
  #790  
Old 01-26-2018, 04:30 PM
JohnT's Avatar
JohnT is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 24,276
I, too, believe in the realness of Asians. It's not just observation bias, man... Asians really exist!

Last edited by JohnT; 01-26-2018 at 04:31 PM.
  #791  
Old 01-26-2018, 04:36 PM
andros is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Dejagore
Posts: 10,568
....
........

...yyyeah. I'm going with "shitty AI."
  #792  
Old 01-26-2018, 04:38 PM
JohnT's Avatar
JohnT is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 24,276
Well, it has been noted that you can't spell "racist" without "AI", so he's got that going for him, which is nice.
  #793  
Old 01-26-2018, 04:38 PM
TroutMan's Avatar
TroutMan is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,155
Please tell me all about the cultural focus on technology of the Irish potato farmers who immigrated. Or does that not matter because they were white?

Look, it sucks to be forced to confront the fact that you are a racist. You don't hate other races, you just think some are not as intelligent or something. That's OK, right?

Well, no. Face it, you're a racist. Saying things like "I'm not a racist, I think there's another race better than whites" could not demonstrate your ignorance any more clearly.
  #794  
Old 01-26-2018, 04:43 PM
k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
Well, for one, China didn't until really recently. They were first in everything, and managed to throw all their advantages away and got their ass handed to them when they encountered cultures post industrial revolution.
Interesting thing about that. They were a world power for quite some time, they led in trade and technology.

Then they pulled back, spent resources building a wall instead of maintaining their trade fleet, and became isolationist.

Then their economy crashed along with their social structure.

Other countries caught up and surpassed the now isolated China as they continued to trade not only goods and services, but ideas people and culture.

As far as the opium wars, that was because we wanted to trade with them to get their silk, but we didn't have anything they wanted. So, we got them addicted to opium, and traded that.
Quote:
Obviously their modern culture has been completely reformed and they've now got their shit together for the most part and have been slowly pulling ahead due to all their advantages.

But they had those same advantages (a very large contiguous territory with vast natural resources, a very large population, writing, an organized civilization) for thousands of years. They just couldn't do shit with them.
That's pretty ignorant of the history of China.
Quote:
So yeah. If the year was 1920, when China did not have it's modern culture, and the proposal was to actively import 1 person from China for every citizen of the USA that was currently a citizen, it would have been a disaster.
The same could be said about the irish, or the italians, or the polish, or the french, or the german, or the jews at the time.

Yet we did get irish and italians and polish and french. Not so much a disaster.
Quote:
The reason being culture - the much smaller number of people from China, etc we have allowed in through level immigration are one of the most successful subgroups in the population. Because they have adapted our culture.
I take it you have never seen china town?

Pretty much every major city has an area that is full of chinese that have not adapted to our culture, but keep their own. Are they all shitholes too?
Quote:
So fuck you all who call me racists.
Quote:
rac·ism
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
You really are painting that label on yourself here.
  #795  
Old 01-26-2018, 05:09 PM
Morgenstern is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 11,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutMan View Post
...

Well, no. Face it, you're a racist. Saying things like "I'm not a racist, I think there's another race better than whites" could not demonstrate your ignorance any more clearly.
He's confusing racism with prejudice. He's young, give him a little break here, he really doesn't understand these concepts either.
  #796  
Old 01-26-2018, 05:28 PM
wolfpup's Avatar
wolfpup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 11,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
So which cultures don't value knowledge and technology?
[Simple Sam]The ones from shithole countries! Duh![/Simple Sam]
Damn! You beat me to it!

But, yes, this is exactly the logic. The people who live in shithole countries (the shitholians) can therefore all be dismissed as useless, ignorant, probably lazy, and probably all criminals. This is not racism, it's a fact, the inescapable conclusion reached by SamuelA's giant throbbing computational brain. This is why these people absolutely must not be allowed in, and SamuelA warns us exactly what would happen if they were: there would be "a massive cultural change, with the new cultural [sic] being mainly weighted towards the culture of origin of the immigrants. And if that culture is a 'failure' creating a 'shithole' : what do you reasonably think would happen." (Bolding mine.)

Obviously the question is rhetorical because the answer is obvious: these people will create shitholes everywhere they roam. Yet they keep sneaking in. Here is a scary picture of a whole room full of shitholians! I bet they're already "weighting the culture" in the shithole direction, even as we speak!
  #797  
Old 01-26-2018, 05:40 PM
wolfpup's Avatar
wolfpup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 11,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
Because they have adapted our culture. And the actual racial differences seem to favor Asians in the modern world, assuming they are real and not just observation bias. (it seems like asians are better at school and more patient and willing to defer gratification and less prone to commit crimes, but I can't disentangle culture from fundamental genetic differences)
Yes, it's hard to tell whether it's ingrained culture or whether it's inherent genetics that make it harder for ignorant backwards foreign races to adapt to our superior white Aryan culture!

It's heartening to know that Asians have been able to adapt to our superior culture, bless their enterprising little yellow hides. But tell me, how do you feel about the Negro? Your compatriot Richard Spencer thinks maybe there's some serious genetic stuff happening there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelA View Post
So fuck you all who call me racist.
You did that all by yourself, and you double down on it every time you post.
  #798  
Old 01-26-2018, 05:52 PM
SamuelA is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
Y
It's heartening to know that Asians have been able to adapt to our superior culture, bless their enterprising little yellow hides. But tell me, how do you feel about the Negro? Your compatriot Richard Spencer thinks maybe there's some serious genetic stuff happening there.

You did that all by yourself, and you double down on it every time you post.
Asians are better at 'our' culture than we are. Because the selection pressure that created them happened to lead to adaptations that are slightly more optimal at it. That's what I think at the present.

I am going back to ignoring you. You and everyone who has called me a racist is too fucking stupid to engage further. K9friendfinder, thanks again for reading my posts and not jumping to the wrong conclusions.
  #799  
Old 01-26-2018, 06:03 PM
zoid's Avatar
zoid is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Chicago Il
Posts: 10,436
Racist
  #800  
Old 01-26-2018, 06:10 PM
crowmanyclouds's Avatar
crowmanyclouds is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ... hiding in my room ...
Posts: 4,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoid View Post
Racist
If that works then;
SamuelA you're a RACIST!

CMC fnord!
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:05 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017