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  #151  
Old 06-16-2019, 10:00 AM
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Racism is just a form of "dissent". Got it!
  #152  
Old 06-16-2019, 10:35 AM
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Racism is just a form of "dissent". Got it!
I thought racism is just "politics"?
  #153  
Old 06-16-2019, 11:11 AM
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I really think that the reason bigots throw around terms like hive mind is that they truly believe that deep down, everyone is as bigoted as they are and the only reason someone would call out their bigotry is because we are ‘hive mind’ or virtue signaling. It’s why they expect us to debate with them when they drop something like immigrants breed like rabbits in a thread. Like I said before, they may truly believe their crap, but operationally, they are trolling.
  #154  
Old 06-16-2019, 11:41 AM
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Which minority opinions?

There's a reason that when people complain that their "opinion" is met with fierce backlash, they often don't tell you what that opinion is. That reason is that that "opinion" is fucking grotesque, and that any reasonable person would respond to it with, "Fuck, dude, what the fuck is wrong with you?!".

Here’s the sort of thing we are talking about, or at least what I am talking about. A quote like this would be treated by the shoutdown brigade as though it came right out of David Duke’s mouth:

Quote:
”[Older feminists] have this idea that no culture can supersede women’s rights, but younger feminists look at things from a very strange perspective, a narcissistic perspective,” and believe it’s— “bigotry to even acknowledge that there are problems in certain cultures, unless of course you’re talking about Western culture, in which case I can acknowledge whatever I want.”
  #155  
Old 06-16-2019, 12:04 PM
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Well, it is a phenomenally outdated take that I disagree with published in a rag most famous for being the smart racist's Breitbart News...

SPOILER:
This is a stupid off-topic digression, but...

Like, here's the context for the quote:

Quote:
The discussions in the aftermath of the 2015-2016 New Year’s Eve sexual assaults in Cologne, Germany, gave her a chance to experience the hypocrisy of the left when it comes to Islam. She saw that older feminists strongly denounced the crimes, saying “’there’s no excuse, these assaults are rooted in religious patriarchy and we cannot allow them to happen.’ They have this idea that no culture can supersede women’s rights, but younger feminists look at things from a very strange perspective, a narcissistic perspective,” and believe it’s — “bigotry to even acknowledge that there are problems in certain cultures, unless of course you’re talking about Western culture, in which case I can acknowledge whatever I want. What could be a more effective roadblock to addressing the problems? I don’t know what world I’m living in when I can’t even acknowledge that there’s a problem and that it’s at a much more extreme level [in Islamic countries] than anything we have in the West, when saying that in itself is [considered] a form of racism, a form of bigotry.”
Those people she claims exist may exist, but they generally aren't on this forum, and they generally aren't numerous enough to make up any substantial demographic. There is no broad wave of pro-Islam, non-Muslim feminists - if I had to guess their numbers, it'd be about on par with the "QAnon" people.

Reactionaries have been trying to use the left's caution about Islamophobia to make it look like the left is unwilling or unable to criticize Islam for a long time, and it remains a very wrong talking point. There's a reason this quote was published in Quillette, most recently famous for publishing an article in defense of... *checks notes*... Craniometry. Yeah. Those guys.


...but I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion given that this is the first time anyone has posted that quote on this forum. Got any examples that are, y'know, actually real?

Last edited by Budget Player Cadet; 06-16-2019 at 12:06 PM.
  #156  
Old 06-16-2019, 12:55 PM
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Here’s the sort of thing we are talking about, or at least what I am talking about. A quote like this would be treated by the shoutdown brigade as though it came right out of David Duke’s mouth:
What about the quote from the OP? You know, the actual example we have.
  #157  
Old 06-16-2019, 12:55 PM
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If someone wrote "The Amish breed like rabbits," not one liberal would likely raise an eyebrow although the Amish are known for large families.

Much of what liberals think is social justice is patronizing and condescending attitudes toward people of color as if they cannot defend themselves or withstand any type of criticisms.
  #158  
Old 06-16-2019, 01:21 PM
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If someone wrote "The Amish breed like rabbits," not one liberal would likely raise an eyebrow although the Amish are known for large families.
Go ahead, try it! Start that thread. See how that goes for you.
  #159  
Old 06-16-2019, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post

This is a way of demanding an unreasonable amount of respect for opinions and positions that absolutely do not deserve any respect. Stop falling for it.
Your whole ouvre rests on the idea that one party and perhaps its members are evil. With that as a foundation, it's not surprising that ideas that don't align with yours are seen as trolling.

This isn't unheard of on the boards either. For some, the idea that people hold various views is unfathomable and as a result the only explanation that makes sense to them is that the other person must be trolling.

If you want to have actual discussion sans animosity and personal insults, then you'll have to suppress the need to call folks who disagree with you trolls. Or you can stick to the Pit and go nuts.
  #160  
Old 06-16-2019, 02:13 PM
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TBH, anyone who thinks Quillette is “The smart racist’s Breitbart news” simply isn’t capable of deciding whether or not anyone is a “Nazi or a troll”.
  #161  
Old 06-16-2019, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bone View Post
Your whole ouvre rests on the idea that one party and perhaps its members are evil. With that as a foundation, it's not surprising that ideas that don't align with yours are seen as trolling.

This isn't unheard of on the boards either. For some, the idea that people hold various views is unfathomable and as a result the only explanation that makes sense to them is that the other person must be trolling.

If you want to have actual discussion sans animosity and personal insults, then you'll have to suppress the need to call folks who disagree with you trolls. Or you can stick to the Pit and go nuts.
So immigrants breed like rabbits is a point worthy of discussion?
  #162  
Old 06-16-2019, 02:18 PM
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So immigrants breed like rabbits is a point worthy of discussion?
I invite you to read post #24 and #26 in this thread:

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Perhaps. But I've seen this type of rationale from the other side of the coin used quite often - that demographics favor X group, or some other iteration that basically hinges on birth rates and immigration rates of various demographics and whatever policy implications that may lead to. If I interpreted in the most favorable way possible, I could see the sentiment expressed in the post in question as a very inartful way of describing similar ideas.
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If I had to bet, I'd say no. But I don't know for certain, and expressing nationalistic sentiment is not forbidden. If a person expresses the idea that they want to limit immigration because the changing demographics encourages other changes they don't like, that is an idea that can be debated. The principle is that more debate is better than less, even when some specific ideas by themselves could be a net negative, the general principle of more debate rather than less makes the board better.
  #163  
Old 06-16-2019, 02:24 PM
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So, again - should it be the forum policy that bigotry is not allowed, or that it is allowed if it is politely expressed?
  #164  
Old 06-16-2019, 02:26 PM
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Your whole ouvre rests on the idea that one party and perhaps its members are evil.
A position I feel more than willing to defend, and which I think you'll find a lot of people here share since... Well, see my signature.

As usual, euphemisms are doing a lot of heavy lifting. I don't think advocating for a lower tax rate is evil. I don't think advocating for less restrictions on guns is evil. I think defending neo-nazis is evil. I think lying about the law for partisan benefit is evil. I think running concentration camps is evil. I think dehumanizing and attacking LGBT people is evil. These are not abstract positions, and it's not even a little unreasonable to treat the people who push for and hold them as evil.

Quote:
With that as a foundation, it's not surprising that ideas that don't align with yours are seen as trolling.
It's not just that they don't align with me. It's views that are fundamentally indefensible in any rational discussion. Like, to the point where you're necessarily either so crazy that it's not worth communicating with you, or you're arguing in blatant bad faith.

Insane conspiracy theories. Stupid bullshit "whataboutism". Needling and prodding at a thread until someone finally takes the bait. This kind of shit is cute for - charitably - a few minutes when dealing with people whose beliefs are largely harmless (flat earthers for example), and considerably less cute when dealing with, oh, say, the president pardoning a psychopathic serial killer before said killer's court martial.

Hell, in the most recent example, you flat-out told the guy "don't post in this thread again because your post is such a stupid distraction - but also, this isn't trolling", a mod decision I cannot help but find a little bizarre given both the poster in question's contributions to the thread and the overall pattern we've seen. That PM I sent you was not a joke, mind you - this shit is super easy to spot.

Quote:
If you want to have actual discussion sans animosity and personal insults, then you'll have to suppress the need to call folks who disagree with you trolls.
Without the ability to understand that there are a great many people here who are operating in bad faith, a lot of these conversations make no sense. Like... imagine there's a poster who claims to be a lawyer. And imagine this poster consistently argues legal positions that would make a Free-Man-On-The-Land blush while insisting that, yeah, they're definitely an expert in the field. Past a certain point, the fact that that poster is definitely lying about something becomes a feature of the conversation that cannot be overlooked if the conversation is to make any sense.

Why yes, I would like to have actual discussion. It's really, really, really hard to do sometimes.

Last edited by Budget Player Cadet; 06-16-2019 at 02:27 PM.
  #165  
Old 06-16-2019, 05:46 PM
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TBH, anyone who thinks Quillette is “The smart racist’s Breitbart news” simply isn’t capable of deciding whether or not anyone is a “Nazi or a troll”.

Indeed, BPC is doing a marvelous job of illustrating my point.
  #166  
Old 06-17-2019, 12:22 AM
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Let’s be honest, the Dope skews old and white, and this lack of diversity affects how we react (or often don’t react) to overt bigotry expressed here.
  #167  
Old 06-17-2019, 03:13 AM
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Indeed, BPC is doing a marvelous job of illustrating my point.
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...9#post21701299
  #168  
Old 06-17-2019, 06:31 AM
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Since we are in ATMB: Why does my User CP keep falsely indicating new posts ITT? Third time now.
  #169  
Old 06-17-2019, 08:55 AM
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